123 réponses à ce sujet

[Foolsfolly]

David Gaider wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...
Hey, David Gaider and other BioWare writers. This year I got to hear dialogue I wrote performed by actors for the first time. I had a minor crisis of... "I suck forever and no one speaks like this but me." Specifically I told the director "Oh ****. I wrote me speaking to also me." How do you guys deal with hearing your dialogue. Does it get better? Will I ever stop cringing at it?

I tend to read my lines out loud as I'm writing them, and for important scenes we have a readthrough with the VO team where I get to hear someone else reading my lines out loud-- both of these things allow me to pick out the things that are awkward, or which people just don't say. So, yes, it should get better if you work at it. You just need to remember that you must write your dialogue as if it's going to be recorded, not just as prose on the page.

Thanks. You've convinced me. I'm going to the table reads next time, it being in another country be damned. And I'm bringing a notebook and three pens. Thanks again, sir.

[Icinix]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Remanentmoss01 wrote...

ME and DAO were by far my favoorite games until the day i came upon Demons Souls , The atmosphere in that game is astonishing and creeps me out like no other game or movie ever has,
And the world design in Dark Souls is just crazy brilliant in the way it all just comes together,
I often wonder what a Bioware game would be like if you used the constant save system they use in the Souls games,
In coversation or when you had to make a choice there wouldn't be a previous save to reload you'd have to live with the outcome, it would be great for replayability

I think the idea of not letting people go back and redo conversations is a fascinating idea.  Having said that, just looking at the responses to a game like Alpha Protocol or even the inital suggestions for TOR, I'd be exceptionally surprised if we did something like that.

I think the idea is interesting - but using it attached to the save game not so much - I like being able to save whenever I need to - wherever I need to. Of course - then you could reload and redo the save - but thats why you have hardcore modes

[Foolsfolly]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Remanentmoss01 wrote...

ME and DAO were by far my favoorite games until the day i came upon Demons Souls , The atmosphere in that game is astonishing and creeps me out like no other game or movie ever has,
And the world design in Dark Souls is just crazy brilliant in the way it all just comes together,
I often wonder what a Bioware game would be like if you used the constant save system they use in the Souls games,
In coversation or when you had to make a choice there wouldn't be a previous save to reload you'd have to live with the outcome, it would be great for replayability

I think the idea of not letting people go back and redo conversations is a fascinating idea.  Having said that, just looking at the responses to a game like Alpha Protocol or even the inital suggestions for TOR, I'd be exceptionally surprised if we did something like that.

Yeah, it's safer to allow saves. If you want to go ahead without reloading nothing stopping you. If you feel you need to reload you can. It's the best of both worlds without sacrificing one (or simply pissing off a few people). I know I've gone a few characters without reloading and I know there are those who keep playing Redcliffe obsessively until everyone comes out of that fight alive.

Different strokes.

[Remanentmoss01]

Hey Alan thanks for answering and i think your right it would be fascinating, and it makes the game more challanging, Many a time i found myself sneaking back to my dead body which still had hundreds of thousands of souls on it and being caught and killed before i got there and i lost them for good, its infuriating beyond belief but it really gives the Souls games a constant edgy feel.

I think back to the first time i played DAO, at the Landsmeet where i chose to let Logain take the ritual and before i knew it Alastair was walking off for good, i was aghast, I immediatly reloaded the game because i could, The same with Tali at Rannoch when i saw what my choice made her do,
I have to admit after i felt like i was cheating the game,
I really think such a save system would add to the replayability especially of Bioware games that are all about making choices

[Xewaka]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Remanentmoss01 wrote...
ME and DAO were by far my favoorite games until the day i came upon Demons Souls , The atmosphere in that game is astonishing and creeps me out like no other game or movie ever has,
And the world design in Dark Souls is just crazy brilliant in the way it all just comes together,
I often wonder what a Bioware game would be like if you used the constant save system they use in the Souls games,
In coversation or when you had to make a choice there wouldn't be a previous save to reload you'd have to live with the outcome, it would be great for replayability

I think the idea of not letting people go back and redo conversations is a fascinating idea.  Having said that, just looking at the responses to a game like Alpha Protocol or even the inital suggestions for TOR, I'd be exceptionally surprised if we did something like that.

Also, that would require Bioware to offer a much higher amount of information on each option than the paraphrasing can show in screen. If you're making a no takebacks choice, you need as much information as possible. Not being able to go back when "hello" means "Hi! Imma murder you!" is not a desirable mechanic.

[Allan Schumacher]

I knew someone would come in with a point against the dialogue wheel in this regard, but I think it's a red herring.

Even if we had full lines of dialogue I think the majority of the fanbase wouldn't be happy, if for no other reason than implementing this feature effectively removes the player's ability to "save anywhere."

[Maria Caliban]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I knew someone would come in with a point against the dialogue wheel in this regard, but I think it's a red herring.

Even if we had full lines of dialogue I think the majority of the fanbase wouldn't be happy, if for no other reason than implementing this feature effectively removes the player's ability to "save anywhere."

Why aren't you in bed?

[Onallion]

I think not allowing repeating conversations is a great idea. In SWTOR, for example, I'm allowed to quit a conversation in the middle and redo it, and being the anal perfectionist that I am - I always end up choosing the responses that will get me the most affection from my companion. I WANT to roleplay a certain type of character, but I feel like I'll be penalized because I have a favorite companion and he/she doesn't like what I really want to say.

Granted, this is less of a problem in DA2 because rivalry is not considered "punishment" (though I still think most people prefer friendships with all their companions), but I still feel like I'm giving up saying what I really want to say just to appease my companions in some way.

So the solution to this can be disallowing repeating conversations. That will force me to choose conversation choices I like, and if they end up being the "wrong" ones or have unforseen consequences...too bad for me! at least this is MY game and I'm roleplaying the way I want to. I guess another solution, but a much more difficult one, is to find some way for players like me not to feel "punished" for certain choices.

[Fast Jimmy]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I knew someone would come in with a point against the dialogue wheel in this regard, but I think it's a red herring.

Even if we had full lines of dialogue I think the majority of the fanbase wouldn't be happy, if for no other reason than implementing this feature effectively removes the player's ability to "save anywhere."

I agree that the full text doesn't prevent outcomes you didn't expect in DA:O (someone just gave the example of reloading when Allistair left, which they didn't expect). However, regradless of if its a fair criticism or not, you'll have people blame the dialogue wheel for any "ruiniation" of their playthrough that they couldn't go back and rectify.


Maybe a third option? Where the number of saves you have in the game locks off some content? Like if I was able to complete the game with only 30 saves or 5 reloads (just spitballing numbers), then I would have access to special dialogue, a certain late-game quest or even a different ending (like Castlevania 2 if you beat it under 2 hours).

But I feel I've wandered into the realm of WAY Off Topic.

[byzantine horse]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I knew someone would come in with a point against the dialogue wheel in this regard, but I think it's a red herring.

Even if we had full lines of dialogue I think the majority of the fanbase wouldn't be happy, if for no other reason than implementing this feature effectively removes the player's ability to "save anywhere."

What about having an option to toggle such autosaving on or off (Edit: and then you're stuck with it for the entirety of that game). I have tried to play RPGs, Mass Effect 3 being the most recent, like that but as there's nothing hindering me from reloading at some point I just go "crap I need to redo that" and replay it. I lack the self-discipline to go through with it. I don't know how much time it takes or how difficult it is to implement such a toggle or similar, but such minor options being open to the player can really make the game better.

Modifié par byzantine horse, 02 octobre 2012 - 02:09 .

[Quicksilver26]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Remanentmoss01 wrote...

ME and DAO were by far my favoorite games until the day i came upon Demons Souls , The atmosphere in that game is astonishing and creeps me out like no other game or movie ever has,
And the world design in Dark Souls is just crazy brilliant in the way it all just comes together,
I often wonder what a Bioware game would be like if you used the constant save system they use in the Souls games,
In coversation or when you had to make a choice there wouldn't be a previous save to reload you'd have to live with the outcome, it would be great for replayability

I think the idea of not letting people go back and redo conversations is a fascinating idea.  Having said that, just looking at the responses to a game like Alpha Protocol or even the inital suggestions for TOR, I'd be exceptionally surprised if we did something like that.

no no no don't you dare MR.Schumacher if you do you'll mess up my number one gameing rule witch is save and save alot it's half the fun for me please don't take away my save please don't 

[Iosev]

I personally would love to see Bioware try the single, self-updating save used in the Souls games. When I first started playing SWTOR, I had no idea that you could back out of conversations, and so I simply went along with the conversations and dealt with the consequences (i.e., approval gains and recessions).

However, my brother watched me play one time, and while I was pondering on what dialogue choice to make during a conversation, he said, "You do know that you can Esc out of a conversation and redo them, right?" At that point, I couldn't help but approach conversations differently, particularly when there were approval to gain or lose.

Before I had found out about re-doing conversations, I approached them with a much deeper style of role-playing (i.e., I chose what I wanted my character to say), but afterwards, I couldn't help but back out of a conversation on occasion to maximize the rewards of the dialogue. Understandably, it's my own fault in choosing to redo the conversation and thus ruin my own role-playing, but I don't know, just knowing that you have that option forever changed the experience for me.

With Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, I approached the games knowing that there was no reloading. When a guy that I rescued in Demon's Souls began murdering important NPCs, it made me feel the weight of my decisions, especially since there was no going back.

Ultimately, I'm guessing that many other fans would have tremendous resistance against a single, self-updating save per playthrough, so I doubt that Bioware would implement it, but I know that I personally would love to see it.

Modifié par arcelonious, 02 octobre 2012 - 04:35 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Quicksilver26 wrote...
no no no don't you dare MR.Schumacher if you do you'll mess up my number one gameing rule witch is save and save alot it's half the fun for me please don't take away my save please don't 

I wouldn't worry about it too much

[eroeru]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I knew someone would come in with a point against the dialogue wheel in this regard, but I think it's a red herring.

Even if we had full lines of dialogue I think the majority of the fanbase wouldn't be happy, if for no other reason than implementing this feature effectively removes the player's ability to "save anywhere."

Have the devs not heard of "options"? Like an *option* to see full lines. It only makes sense given that paraphrases simply don't work with many a Bioware fan's play-style.

[Allan Schumacher]

The discussion was regarding whether or not we'd restrict saving/loading anywhere.

[eroeru]

Ah, ok, nevermind.

[berelinde]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Remanentmoss01 wrote...

ME and DAO were by far my favoorite games until the day i came upon Demons Souls , The atmosphere in that game is astonishing and creeps me out like no other game or movie ever has,
And the world design in Dark Souls is just crazy brilliant in the way it all just comes together,
I often wonder what a Bioware game would be like if you used the constant save system they use in the Souls games,
In coversation or when you had to make a choice there wouldn't be a previous save to reload you'd have to live with the outcome, it would be great for replayability

I think the idea of not letting people go back and redo conversations is a fascinating idea.  Having said that, just looking at the responses to a game like Alpha Protocol or even the inital suggestions for TOR, I'd be exceptionally surprised if we did something like that.

If you did, you would simply *have* to put in an option to pause dialogue on all platforms. There is literally nothing worse than having to replay the exact same conversation five times because each time you tried to sit down to play through it, your spouse/partner/parent/child/other-non-ignorable-person walked in and wanted to have a chat.

[Dave of Canada]

Curious, could you do something similar to TWD's statistics for the major decisions at the end of each episode and if not, any reasoning? It's interesting to see the percentage of people who did something, I've genuinly been surprised many times by what players did or did not do.

[Allan Schumacher]

If you did, you would simply *have* to put in an option to pause dialogue on all platforms. There is literally nothing worse than having to replay the exact same conversation five times because each time you tried to sit down to play through it, your spouse/partner/parent/child/other-non-ignorable-person walked in and wanted to have a chat.

I think conversation/cutscene pause should be added regardless of what we do with saves (it is a logged user story so it's definitely a tracked goal for DA3)

Curious, could you do something similar to TWD's statistics for the major decisions at the end of each episode and if not, any reasoning? It's interesting to see the percentage of people who did something, I've genuinly been surprised many times by what players did or did not do.

I actually really like this idea haha. Don't have any idea the level of complexity something like this would take, however. Would need to touch base with peeps that know more than I!

[berelinde]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

If you did, you would simply *have* to put in an option to pause dialogue on all platforms. There is literally nothing worse than having to replay the exact same conversation five times because each time you tried to sit down to play through it, your spouse/partner/parent/child/other-non-ignorable-person walked in and wanted to have a chat.

I think conversation/cutscene pause should be added regardless of what we do with saves (it is a logged user story so it's definitely a tracked goal for DA3)

WooHOO! This makes me absolutely giddy with happiness. I know that nothing is promised. Sometimes things sound good on paper and wind up not working out in the end. But it would be nice to go through a single conversation without having to repeat "I'll be there in a minute, hon!" every three seconds until the dialogue ends.

[Maria Caliban]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Curious, could you do something similar to TWD's statistics for the major decisions at the end of each episode and if not, any reasoning? It's interesting to see the percentage of people who did something, I've genuinly been surprised many times by what players did or did not do.

I actually really like this idea haha. Don't have any idea the level of complexity something like this would take, however. Would need to touch base with peeps that know more than I!

This is exactly what the achievement system does in most games. I know that only a small percentage of Witcher 2 fans on Steam spared [spoiler] and that that more people went with the elf [spoiler] instead of [spoiler] for Chapter 1.

[ElitePinecone]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Curious, could you do something similar to TWD's statistics for the major decisions at the end of each episode and if not, any reasoning? It's interesting to see the percentage of people who did something, I've genuinly been surprised many times by what players did or did not do.

I actually really like this idea haha. Don't have any idea the level of complexity something like this would take, however. Would need to touch base with peeps that know more than I!

This is a great idea! I loved the way they do in The Walking Dead, and with a choice-based game like ME/DA it'd be incredibly interesting to see how many people picked certain options. 

I'm ignorant of the details, but Bioware already collects telemetry for the decisions - we hear about it occasionally months after launch. Surely it'd be fairly simple to just take this aggregate data and show it in a variety of fancy ways to the player? 

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 03 octobre 2012 - 10:03 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

If you did, you would simply *have* to put in an option to pause dialogue on all platforms. There is literally nothing worse than having to replay the exact same conversation five times because each time you tried to sit down to play through it, your spouse/partner/parent/child/other-non-ignorable-person walked in and wanted to have a chat.

I think conversation/cutscene pause should be added regardless of what we do with saves (it is a logged user story so it's definitely a tracked goal for DA3)

I have just been playing Batman Arkham City, and let me tell you this feature was a god-send for someone who rarely can go ten minutes without having to pause my game for some reason or another.