388 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

Zkyire wrote...
Aye. Something akin to what she wore in DA:O. Basically boiled/studded leather, it's relatively light, protects the body from glancing blows (which, realistically, can also be lifesaving as even a light cut can cause a bad infection without proper medical care), and in keeping with Isabella's personality, can still show a bit of skin here and there.

There's really nothing remotely sexy about the light armor from Origins. Nothing. It's awful and one of the biggest purely aesthetic complaints about the game.

[hoorayforicecream]

tmp7704 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

A sex-positive woman without a lot of emotional baggage in fantasy is a rarity. A woman who enjoys her life, is confident about her choices, and isn't ashamed of just being who she wishes to be is also a rarity. Further, her evolving friendship with Aveline, and her big sisterly relationship with Merrill also push her squarely into an area that is not often explored in a genre where women are so often defined by their relationships with men and/or past trauma. The reason I enjoyed Isabela as a character wasn't so much that she was so much deeper than anyone, but that she was a multifaceted character who did not fall into the traditional sort of fantasy tropes that the majority of her predecessors did.

Mhmm, i'd argue that this very description of Isabela you have here makes her a very simple character rather than multifaceted -- a Jacob minus daddy issues, so to speak. I think you're right though the female friendship angle isn't too often explored in the western games, so she can at least appear somewhat different because of that to some people.

I disagree with your assessment that Isabela is a simple character. Isabela wasn't just some milquetoast generic friendly type. She had her flaws, and we saw them. She doesn't think long term, but is more about enjoying herself now. She's selfish, and she appreciates that sort of self-serving attitude. She's a thrill-seeker. She makes mistakes. She got in over her head with the wrong people. And yet, she still grows, she still improves, she still changes. She can decide on her own to return to Kirkwall to help others when she didn't have to. These are all things that Jacob never does. Jacob's story is all about his daddy issues. By discounting her growth and character arc, you're ignoring a large portion of what makes her interesting. She's a flawed, yet admirable character who actually grows.

... Although that may well be because it's rare to have more than one female character in the cast of these games to begin with. So maybe that's why the existence of relationship between women in DA2 didn't strike me as making specifically Isabela someone unordinary -- her developing bonds with other women in the cast is after all no different from the others developing the bonds with her.

That's not true either. There were three women in the main cast of DAO (Wynne, Leliana, Morrigan), and four in the cast of DA2 (Bethany, Isabela, Merrill, Aveline). None of the others build the sort of close relationships with each other the way Isabela builds hers with them. Isabela is the one that stands out here, not the others.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Monica21 wrote...

Zkyire wrote...
Aye. Something akin to what she wore in DA:O. Basically boiled/studded leather, it's relatively light, protects the body from glancing blows (which, realistically, can also be lifesaving as even a light cut can cause a bad infection without proper medical care), and in keeping with Isabella's personality, can still show a bit of skin here and there.

There's really nothing remotely sexy about the light armor from Origins. Nothing. It's awful and one of the biggest purely aesthetic complaints about the game.

Light armor wasn't made for the sake of "sexy".

[Cutlass Jack]

Zkyire wrote...

D'Artagnan was supposed to be a Musketeer in the 17th century. They didn't use armour because they had guns. Guns made armour effectively irrelevant. So they mostly didn't bother manufacturing it anymore.

In DA they're still using bows, besides, Isabella could wear *light* armour. I'm not expecting her to come out in full plate.

And spells wouldn't make armor even more irrelevant? Getting out of the way of things is even more desirable. Be it fireball, arrow, or Qunari firing cannons at your ship.

[Monica21]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Zkyire wrote...
Aye. Something akin to what she wore in DA:O. Basically boiled/studded leather, it's relatively light, protects the body from glancing blows (which, realistically, can also be lifesaving as even a light cut can cause a bad infection without proper medical care), and in keeping with Isabella's personality, can still show a bit of skin here and there.

There's really nothing remotely sexy about the light armor from Origins. Nothing. It's awful and one of the biggest purely aesthetic complaints about the game.

Light armor wasn't made for the sake of "sexy".

True, but not the point of the discussion.

Edited to add, the light armor from Origins does nearly as bad a job offering protection as anything Isabela wears. On the male characters the collar reaches the base of the throat. On the female characters, the neckline plunges and affords a nice view of cleavage, in addition to offering no resistance should you get stabbed in the chest. (And another reason why what the armor looks like doesn't matter.)

Modifié par Monica21, 30 septembre 2012 - 07:06 .

[mousestalker]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Zkyire wrote...
Aye. Something akin to what she wore in DA:O. Basically boiled/studded leather, it's relatively light, protects the body from glancing blows (which, realistically, can also be lifesaving as even a light cut can cause a bad infection without proper medical care), and in keeping with Isabella's personality, can still show a bit of skin here and there.

There's really nothing remotely sexy about the light armor from Origins. Nothing. It's awful and one of the biggest purely aesthetic complaints about the game.

Light armor wasn't made for the sake of "sexy".

*cough*Dalish cheerleader armour*cough*

[JamieCOTC]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I would have loved this. Though seeing the reaction Jacob had (which while still believable, stung to players that romanced Jacob) it would have been even more of a shark tank on the ME3 forums I think haha.

I know, wrong forum, but while the Jacob romance is believable in that it could happen, I thought it was completely botched in the way it happened.  In fact I thought the DA team did a much better job w/ a small scene in Awakening dealing w/ the same subject.

As to the topic at hand while the designs fit the characters very well done, a little variety would have helped. 

[Iosev]

Edit: I accidentally posted in the wrong thread.

Modifié par arcelonious, 30 septembre 2012 - 07:15 .

[FINE HERE]

Monica21 wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Zkyire wrote...
Aye. Something akin to what she wore in DA:O. Basically boiled/studded leather, it's relatively light, protects the body from glancing blows (which, realistically, can also be lifesaving as even a light cut can cause a bad infection without proper medical care), and in keeping with Isabella's personality, can still show a bit of skin here and there.

There's really nothing remotely sexy about the light armor from Origins. Nothing. It's awful and one of the biggest purely aesthetic complaints about the game.

Light armor wasn't made for the sake of "sexy".

True, but not the point of the discussion.

Edited to add, the light armor from Origins does nearly as bad a job offering protection as anything Isabela wears. On the male characters the collar reaches the base of the throat. On the female characters, the neckline plunges and affords a nice view of cleavage, in addition to offering no resistance should you get stabbed in the chest. (And another reason why what the armor looks like doesn't matter.)

Is what Isabella wearing even considered armor? I always thought that was a tunic/dress whatever and in no way any protective material(leather, chainmail, etc.).

[Monica21]

FINE HERE wrote...
Is what Isabella wearing even considered armor? I always thought that was a tunic/dress whatever and in no way any protective material(leather, chainmail, etc.).

TUNIC! That's the word I couldn't think of. Blah. Anyway, no, I wouldn't consider it armor. The boots are pretty heavy leather, but that's about the only thing about her outfit that I might consider armor.

[Velevita]

I wish more women in media were depicted as in Witcher books - diverse group of individuals with their own agendas, characteristics, abilities, values and tastes,  dressed appropriately to said values, tastes and situation they are in (pimped up dress at a party, inconspicuous and practical clothing when traveling etc.), wearing exactly the same uniforms as their male counterparts, you get the idea. Also, pretty doesn't equal stripperific.

I wish less women in media were depicted as in Witcher games - where everything we know about character, setting, or common sense is overruled by the need to show TEH BOOBZ. Triss always wearing dresses with absolutely no cleavage  (mind that she is still considered very sexy ) is mentioned  several times in the books and it is connected to very important event  in her life (and its consequences). Games simply ignore it, for the greater boob<_<. And the uniforms and armors... well, we all know how they look.

IMO, unlike ME3, Dragon Age series mostly maintains first approach, and I hope it will stay that way. While Isabela's (and Carver's and Varric's)  outfits did bother me during battles as not really battle-ish, they were fitting their characterizations. It would be nice to see more capable female warriors like Aveline, though. And maybe a woman who is  secure about both her beauty and sexuality, but would rather dress practically and/or elegantly than sexily, because she simply likes it that way:)

Modifié par Velevita, 30 septembre 2012 - 07:29 .

[slimgrin]

Truth is I do admire some of the character designs in Bioware's games and I understand the desire to make the ladies sexy, but if there's a spectrum here, they need to lean more towards practicality. A lot of developers do. Isabella is off the rails in this regard. No fighter would ever dress like that.   

[hoorayforicecream]

Monica21 wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...
Is what Isabella wearing even considered armor? I always thought that was a tunic/dress whatever and in no way any protective material(leather, chainmail, etc.).

TUNIC! That's the word I couldn't think of. Blah. Anyway, no, I wouldn't consider it armor. The boots are pretty heavy leather, but that's about the only thing about her outfit that I might consider armor.

She wears a metal pauldron and has elbow guards and one heavy leather sleeve for her left arm (her front arm) as well. It's a normal duelist's setup. She turns herself to the side to present a smaller profile when fighting, and then uses her armor to deflect rather than to protect from the brunt of any blows. It's like how gladiators only covered specific parts of their bodies, rather than wear full armor.

[Iosev]

Whenever I think of pirates, I rarely think of armor, unless we're talking about Vikings (not sure if they're classified as pirates). Obviously it's based off of contemporary media, but I always imagine pirates simply wearing clothes, so Isabela not being fully clad in leather armor never bothered me.

Modifié par arcelonious, 30 septembre 2012 - 07:31 .

[Adara]

I understand some people like realism. More power to you. However, i like armor to look a little feminine with a little skin and I am female. You can show a little skin and it's still believable that she is protected enough. I cannot stand most armor in games for females because the armor is so masculine. I prefer my characters to look feminine and pretty.

Modifié par Gremnock, 30 septembre 2012 - 07:46 .

[Chaos Lord Malek]

I would rather want chain mail bikini, emblazed with magical runes for Protoss Plasma Shields. Then they could use their sexy assets and agility as well, while still having OP protection.

I just can't understand guys who would want women to be clothed up completely. Girls who complain are probably just jealous. This is after all fantasy world, there are alien Elves, Dwarfs females, King Leonidas leading Dragon Cult, Demon looking grey Terminators, that never smile, etc... So chain mail bikini with magical runes for Protoss Plasma Shield isn't really that much out of place.

[legbamel]

I'll accept chain mail bikinis only if the men are in chain mail banana-hammocks. Fair's fair, after all. Or would their using their sexy assets and agility bother you?

[CuriousArtemis]

I think DA2 art team did a GREAT job dressing female characters. I do disagree with the decision to put all female NPCs in dresses, and I do think Isabela's lack of pants was bizarre and far-fetched, but other than that, I think they were solid and fixed most of the problems in DA:O (bare bellies, exposed chests, etc.)

[CuriousArtemis]

legbamel wrote...

I'll accept chain mail bikinis only if the men are in chain mail banana-hammocks. Fair's fair, after all. Or would their using their sexy assets and agility bother you?

Yeah for DA3 I want a male version of Isabela that walks around in nothing but thigh high boots, a glittery thong, and golden shoulder cuffs xDDD

[Allan Schumacher]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

If that was the idea at all. Myself, I never bought into the perfection angle as her writing strategy: not least because I'd expect social skills to be a pretty important part of 'perfection', and Miranda (is deliberatly written to) gives a semi-hostile first impression. An exceptionally skilled person who holds to exceptional standards? Sure. More than that?

Interesting point. Though I suppose one could say that the distinction could be made about being physically perfect and "socially perfect."

Barring preventing Miranda from having the ability to exercise free well, she's also the genetic engineering project of someone that could easily have lacked in social graces himself.

Ah, but then she wouldn't be perfect, would she?

Call it a personal thing, but I'm of the breed that considers mental health just as important as physical health for soldiers and the sort. Good bodies with bad minds don't do good work, and emotionally inept/traumatized children don't make perfect soldiers.

What constitutes a "perfect" soldier depends on who's doing the assessing I think

[Dean_the_Young]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

If that was the idea at all. Myself, I never bought into the perfection angle as her writing strategy: not least because I'd expect social skills to be a pretty important part of 'perfection', and Miranda (is deliberatly written to) gives a semi-hostile first impression. An exceptionally skilled person who holds to exceptional standards? Sure. More than that?

Interesting point. Though I suppose one could say that the distinction could be made about being physically perfect and "socially perfect."

Barring preventing Miranda from having the ability to exercise free well, she's also the genetic engineering project of someone that could easily have lacked in social graces himself.

Ah, but then she wouldn't be perfect, would she?

Call it a personal thing, but I'm of the breed that considers mental health just as important as physical health for soldiers and the sort. Good bodies with bad minds don't do good work, and emotionally inept/traumatized children don't make perfect soldiers.

What constitutes a "perfect" soldier depends on who's doing the assessing I think

I find that psychological breakdowns, treason, and/or daddy issues are a minus.

[hoorayforicecream]

motomotogirl wrote...

legbamel wrote...

I'll accept chain mail bikinis only if the men are in chain mail banana-hammocks. Fair's fair, after all. Or would their using their sexy assets and agility bother you?

Yeah for DA3 I want a male version of Isabela that walks around in nothing but thigh high boots, a glittery thong, and golden shoulder cuffs xDDD

Would this look suffice?

[upsettingshorts]

motomotogirl wrote...

legbamel wrote...

I'll accept chain mail bikinis only if the men are in chain mail banana-hammocks. Fair's fair, after all. Or would their using their sexy assets and agility bother you?

Yeah for DA3 I want a male version of Isabela that walks around in nothing but thigh high boots, a glittery thong, and golden shoulder cuffs xDDD

...Vamp?