388 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What constitutes a "perfect" soldier depends on who's doing the assessing I think

I find that psychological breakdowns, treason, and/or daddy issues are a minus.

True.  But you didn't create Miranda.  Her father did.  In creating the perfect soldiers, he'll worry about what qualifications he thinks makes her perfect, not Dean the Young's.

[upsettingshorts]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What constitutes a "perfect" soldier depends on who's doing the assessing I think

I find that psychological breakdowns, treason, and/or daddy issues are a minus.

True.  But you didn't create Miranda.  Her father did.  In creating the perfect soldiers, he'll worry about what qualifications he thinks makes her perfect, not Dean the Young's.

Let's face it, thinking about Miranda's dad's motives for any length of time starts getting really creepy really fast.

That's a good thing, writing wise.  So nobody read this as a criticism.

[Zkyire]

Monica21 wrote...
There's really nothing remotely sexy about the light armor from Origins. Nothing. It's awful and one of the biggest purely aesthetic complaints about the game.

I didn't say "bring back the specific armour from DA:O", I said "akin", as in leather armour that, by virtue of being leather armour, offers light protection, while could still be designed in such a way to fit Isabella's personality.

[Zkyire]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Zkyire wrote...

D'Artagnan was supposed to be a Musketeer in the 17th century. They didn't use armour because they had guns. Guns made armour effectively irrelevant. So they mostly didn't bother manufacturing it anymore.

In DA they're still using bows, besides, Isabella could wear *light* armour. I'm not expecting her to come out in full plate.

And spells wouldn't make armor even more irrelevant? Getting out of the way of things is even more desirable. Be it fireball, arrow, or Qunari firing cannons at your ship.

Guns were everywhere by the 17th century.

In DA, mages are mostly confined to the Circle towers.

Besides, as I said, it's not full plate armour. It's boiled leather. It's not heavy. It wont slow anyone down. And its better to wear any kind of armour than none at all. Even leather.

*edit* I realise I'm coming across as a tad aggressive with all the periods. Not my intention.

Modifié par Zkyire, 30 septembre 2012 - 09:08 .

[LinksOcarina]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What constitutes a "perfect" soldier depends on who's doing the assessing I think

I find that psychological breakdowns, treason, and/or daddy issues are a minus.

True.  But you didn't create Miranda.  Her father did.  In creating the perfect soldiers, he'll worry about what qualifications he thinks makes her perfect, not Dean the Young's.

See it's funny, I always saw Miranda as a "Mary-Sue" turned on it's head, a character that was purposely written and shown to be a superficial object of "perfection" upon first apperance, but beyond that begins to grow out of her shell, so to speak, and learn that her genetics and her sex appeal are not the reason she is so amazing.

And yet, what turned it around was her mentality. she thought she was perfect, but it was by design, not by free will. That made her more human than anything else, espeically if Shepard points it out during conversations. She is vulnerable, not perfect, and that was a pretty good form of characterization. 

[Fiacre]

motomotogirl wrote...

I think DA2 art team did a GREAT job dressing female characters. I do disagree with the decision to put all female NPCs in dresses, and I do think Isabela's lack of pants was bizarre and far-fetched, but other than that, I think they were solid and fixed most of the problems in DA:O (bare bellies, exposed chests, etc.)

This. The day I can have my female characters wear men's clothing is the day I might actually play a female character  for a reason other than wanting to see if the CEF origin is really that good or my brother insisting.


...As far as tthe actual topic goes, for the most part I like how DA has handled it. The leather armor in Origins was rather silly (especially the Dalish armor), but generally it's been good.

[tmp7704]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I disagree with your assessment that Isabela is a simple character. Isabela wasn't just some milquetoast generic friendly type. She had her flaws, and we saw them. She doesn't think long term, but is more about enjoying herself now. She's selfish, and she appreciates that sort of self-serving attitude. She's a thrill-seeker. She makes mistakes. She got in over her head with the wrong people. And yet, she still grows, she still improves, she still changes. She can decide on her own to return to Kirkwall to help others when she didn't have to.

Well, i said it was your description of the character that made her look simple, vs multi-faceted -- wouldn't you at least agree that "she is comfortable with what sort of person she is, and she gets along with others" isn't really all that multi-faceted as far as characters go? Adding to it the fact she makes a mistake or two doesn't improve things much -- as only Mary Sue doesn't make them, so it's entry level part of character setup, imo.

Personally i'd consider her character simple because at no point anything she did was a surprise to me, or made me change my expectations about her behaviour. I'm not discounting her character arc here btw, but like everything else with her it felt like something bit much by-the-numbers.

That's not true either. There were three women in the main cast of DAO (Wynne, Leliana, Morrigan), and four in the cast of DA2 (Bethany, Isabela, Merrill, Aveline). None of the others build the sort of close relationships with each other the way Isabela builds hers with them. Isabela is the one that stands out here, not the others.

I'll interpret it that "not true either" doesn't include the statement multiple female characters in the cast are rare thing in western games. For the other part, i might've worded that wrong -- what i meant was, Isabela forming closer relationships with others felt like natural result of her character being painted as easygoing, friendly type (similar to Varric). But while the other female characters in DA2 can be considered more socially awkward, nevertheless they do get along with one another as well -- just like with Isabela no dialogue between them i can recall revolves around "their relationship with men and/or past trauma" as you put it. So it just didn't feel Isabela was really standing out from that group.

Modifié par tmp7704, 30 septembre 2012 - 10:32 .

[Zetheria Tabris]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

They've all been really good I think. The only female outfit I can recall that didn't make much sense was Morrigan's default outfits when you first meet her. Sure, she's a mage and doesn't need armor or anything, but she's living in a swamp full of brush and thorns and bugs. . . she should be wearing a flannel shirt not walking around with a tiny bolt of silk over her nips.

Morrigan did live in a swamp, but she does keep herself clean, so I doubt she would ever look like you described. She looks very primitive - her skirt and pants are made from stripped leather, and that silk was probably stitched together from strand pieces of cloth she just found hanging around. The feathers are obviously something she found and put on herself for decoration. Her necklace is probably made from animal bones. Most likely, her clothes were stolen from people from Lothering, and she combined them to sew a makeshift outfit.

Personally I think Morrigan's outfit fits her background and class as well; she is a witch, and she definitely looks it.

[Chiramu]

A strong willed, normal female character would be best.

[Spedfrom]

Yay for spoilers on Mass Effect 2! Thanks a lot!

[LPPrince]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Someone lurking this thread is probably half naked.

T'aint me, I've got a shirt, jammies, shorts underneath, and socks.

Holy hell I just described my current attire to...what.

WHAT SORT OF PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE IS THIS!?

Women, man.

[The Hierophant]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Someone lurking this thread is probably half naked.

How did you know? Are you a psychic or somethin?

[LPPrince]

Anyway, I'll say it again- someone without an "angle". Someone NORMAL.

Girl next door. Who just so happens to be badass enough to travel with us.

[LPPrince]

^lolol, and here I thought I was in the F/F romance thread because of the half naked comment.

Eff.

[Battlebloodmage]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I echo Rosa's perspective a lot (Isabela is far and away my favourite NPC in DA2), and I'd say Aveline is right up there (easily my second favourite).

Kudos to the Isabela writer (I actually don't know who did it off the top of my head lol) that head faked everyone with a stereotype and delivered something excellent.

Silly Allan, Isabela is a playable character, not an NPC .

[Allan Schumacher]

I use the term NPC very deliberately, because I wasn't just referring to companions, but all players that aren't the hero (whom I typically refer to as the PC).

[oui_je_danse]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

But yeah, Ashley... sigh.  That outfit was worse before the colors were made more uniform , and even then... garters, butt cleavage...

Poor Ashley. That butt cleavage was just... euh... I don't even...

Her "sexy transformation" from ME/ME2 to ME3 is the only female character design decision I still strenuously object to out of all the BioWare games I've played. The inversion of having a male (Kaidan) be a lightly armored biotic/tech and a female (Ashley) be a heavy armored pure soldier was delightful. You'll notice that Kaidan's special new ME3 armor was bulky and slightly inappropriate for a sentinel?

But that was the ME team, not the DA team. I think we're probably safe from Anders doing a DA3 cameo magic mike style or Aveline suddenly discovering she only needs to fight in black lace underwear.

Modifié par oui_je_danse, 01 octobre 2012 - 03:27 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

oui_je_danse wrote...
 I think we're probably safe from Anders doing a DA3 cameo magic mike style

No, we absolutely do not want to be safe from this.

I dare you, epler.

[TEWR]

GodWood wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...
Yeah I should have clarified that they should keep it up although Aveline was too much

How exactly was Aveline "too much"?

She was Captain of the Guard and as such wore a repectable fully armoured uniform, just like the rest of the guards.

She was showing her ears. Ears are way too much skin, man.

[TEWR]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

*informative stuff about a meaningfully well-written female character

As an aside that has little bearing to the thread itself, I have to say that your posts on Isabela's character are really helping me to understand how to write a decent -- if not exceptional -- female character.

I mean, I've had some ideas for the female characters I'm currently working on in my free time for my VG series concept, but your posts certainly help me to understand what to try to focus on primarily.

EDIT: I should say though that it's not so much I never recognized that Isabela is a deep character, as I've always known that. But your posts are really well thought out and help me to see a lot of what makes her awesome in ways that, at first glance, might not be readily apparent.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 octobre 2012 - 06:15 .

[FINE HERE]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

GodWood wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...
Yeah I should have clarified that they should keep it up although Aveline was too much

How exactly was Aveline "too much"?

She was Captain of the Guard and as such wore a repectable fully armoured uniform, just like the rest of the guards.

She was showing her ears. Ears are way too much skin, man.

I know my ears drive the boys wild.
But seriously, I'd rather it was brought more back towards the DA:O level. Isabella's armor would be better if she wasn't facing wave after wave of bandits and instead dueling one or two people at a time. It suits her character, sure, but realistically, was would have killed her.
I don't mind 'sexy' clothes or armors as long as they're in the right place. (Gowns for parties, at home base, or a masquerade ball. Armor and robes in battle.)

[oui_je_danse]

Pseudocognition wrote...

oui_je_danse wrote...
 I think we're probably safe from Anders doing a DA3 cameo magic mike style

No, we absolutely do not want to be safe from this.

I dare you, epler.

Much darkness dwells in the hearts of mankind. *shudders in horror at the Healer of Kirkwall image*

[GodWood]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Oh, the "realism" argument. Good thing that one's got a ready-made counter argument:

These settings are not real.  They are not based in reality.  They are only vaguely inspired by them.  They are not even historical fiction.  They can depart from reality in whatever ways the narrative and themes ask them to be.

They can be whatever the writers want them to be, depending on what they want to say.

That writers, and audiences, demand they be sexist for the sake of "realism" says more about them than it does the setting.

Dear god, you can't be ****ing serious.

Modifié par GodWood, 01 octobre 2012 - 04:54 .