49 réponses à ce sujet

[Swagger7]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

No, beside one side quest in ME1, history has meant nothing in ME2/3 and serves to just have one dialogue change in ME2/3. I rather have origins to actually experience this and know that it's just more than written text and a few comments.

I certainly agree that origin stories arre better, but if these prove to be impossible then I still think some choice is better than none at all.

[RazorrX]

For me it depends on what the game is.

In origins I think the origins were some of the best content. The City Elf, Dwarf Commoner and Dwarf Noble were freaking awesome content.

In fact, they were so good I was disappointed with the other origins. The human noble had a touching moment with Mom and Dad that was awesome, but that was all. The mage origin was too vanilla, with the harrowing being way too easy.

In DA2 they had a set character with set background, etc. It was so set that Hawke never felt like My character. It worked for the story they were telling, just failed to pull me into actually liking the PC. I loved some of the NPCs - Varic is a true Bro, Isabela was awesome, etc. I even felt sorry for Anders and his slow decline.

ME series even though you do not get much input on your background, Shepard still felt more or less like your character.

IF DA3 is more like ME with a more open ended character then the ME method would work (ESP if we are allowed races again). IF it is more like DA2 then there is no reason to choose a background as the character will be totally fleshed out for you before hand.

Modifié par RazorrX, 30 septembre 2012 - 04:32 .

[Eveangaline]

Foolsfolly wrote...
To show to those of you that haven't played ME1 here are the descriptions for the three histories:

Spacer: Both of your parents were in the Alliance military. Your childhood was spent on ships and stations as they transferred from posting to posting, never staying in one location for
more than a few years. Following in your parent's footsteps, you
enlisted at the age of eighteen.


Earthborn: You were an orphan raised on the streets of the great
megatropolises covering Earth. You escaped the life of petty crime and
underworld gangs by enlisting with the Alliance military when you turned
eighteen.


Colonist: You were born and raised on Mindoir, a small border colony in the Attican Traverse.
When you were sixteen, slavers raided Mindoir, slaughtering your family
and friends. You were saved by a passing Alliance patrol, and you
enlisted with the military a few years later.

And psych profiles:

Sole Survivor: During your service, a mission you were on went
horribly wrong. Trapped in an extreme survival situation, you had to
overcome physical torments and psychological stresses that would have
broken most people. You survived while all those around you fell, and
now you alone are left to tell the tale. The Sole Survivor's unit was
slaughtered in a thresher maw attack on Akuze.

War Hero: Early in your military career you found yourself facing
an overwhelming enemy force. You risked your own life to save your
fellow soldiers and defeat the enemy despite the impossible odds. Your
bravery and heroism have earned you medals and recognition from the
Alliance fleet. The War Hero almost single-handedly repelled an attack
by batarian slavers on Elysium.

Ruthless: Throughout your military career, you have held fast to
one basic rule: get the job done. You've been called cold, calculating,
and brutal. Your reputation for ruthless efficiency makes your fellow
soldiers wary of you. But when failure is not an option, the military
always goes to you first. The Ruthless character sent 3/4ths of his/her
unit to its death and murdered surrendering batarians on Torfan.

You can mix one from the first batch and one from the second. It's just enough to have references in the game (many references and even a side mission) while giving the player enough to imagine and roleplay from those.

Oh wow, that sounds great. I'd really be interested in having options like this

[Quicksilver26]

better then nothing i'm for it

[The Elder King]

If we're not going to have origins (which I doubt we'll have) I think having some different backgrounds for the PC is good. I hope we'll get that choice.

[Foolsfolly]

Chipaway111 wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

No, beside one side quest in ME1, history has meant nothing in ME2/3 and serves to just have one dialogue change in ME2/3. I rather have origins to actually experience this and know that it's just more than written text and a few comments.

If you're thinking of DA:O style origins, then anyone can argue it was the exact same. You were the same warden, fighting the same blight. I like the idea of a short simplistic background choice.

I normally always choose a colonist background coupled with Akuze as Shepards defining moment, why? Because apparently I like torturing my Shepard, but it meant she could either be strengthened by this, or broken. Origins did the same thing but with more interactivity involved, but both were acknowledged with a few lines of dialogue. ME1's style seems like a compromise, and that's what DA3 is all about.

I'd rather DA3's budget go into something other than deciding whether or not my protagonist had a happy saccahrine life or was put through hell on Earth (Thedas?) before the game even begins.

I agree, obviously, with Chipaway here.

Also I think there were a great number of references to your psych profile or past in ME1. ME2 had nearly none, true. There was that bit with Jacob at the beginning... and I can't remember a single time after that. ME3 had some more but not as many as ME1.

I'm firmly looking at how ME1 handled this. They had reference drops all the time. The first time you speak to Ashley she'll mention your Star of Terra (if you did War Hero), Jenkins talks about your psych profile when you speak to him, Admiral Kohaku will mention it, there's two side quests per character based around them (one exclusively based on your history while the psych side quests are simple side quests for everyone just with additional dialogue and meaning if it aligns with your psych profile). Garrus will reference Torfan. Balak will mention Torfan.

I mean there were as many if not a little more references to your past and profile in ME1 than to your Origin in DA:O.

Swagger7 wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

No,
beside one side quest in ME1, history has meant nothing in ME2/3 and
serves to just have one dialogue change in ME2/3. I rather have origins
to actually experience this and know that it's just more than written
text and a few comments.

I certainly agree that
origin stories arre better, but if these prove to be impossible then I
still think some choice is better than none at all.

I'd like as many origin stories as possible. But since that's not going to happen this is a much cheaper but easy way to have the player connect to the character and have those pasts affect and be referenced within the game by other characters. It's simply a device to enrichen the game world.

[rwaporter]

As much as I would like to have playable origins, like in DA:O, Mass Effect style origins would be likely more cost effective and could actually be better, because they can alter longer portions of a character's life, in ME you could choose a birthplace and childhood history, and a war record, if DA3 used a similar system you could choose your character's origin and what made your character renowned enough to realistically lead a mission to save the world, I would like to see something like this:
(assuming only Human PC)

Warrior/Rogue Origins
Avvar Barbarian: you were hunting and came home to find dragon cultists had ravaged your village, you take off after them to avenge your family and rescue your sister/brother after hunting them down you slay the whole band of cultists and their pet dragon(s), their mysterious benefactor has escaped, you and/or your family member are injured, grey wardens find you and recruit you in exchange for saving your family member.

Free Marcher Noble: you are the third child of a noble familly with a proud Warden history, you were trained by the best and successfully defended your family's castle when a neighboring city attacked, you personally slew the captain of the opposing army, and when passing Grey Wardens heard of your skill, they asked to recruit you and at your family's encouragemnet you accepted.

Denerim Street Rat: you were an orphan that ran in a gang and after several years you become one of the best thieves in the gang and one night you steal an idol from a Gray Warden's room and are caught the next day, after striking down demons attracted by the idol, the grey warden invokes the right of conscription to keep you from prison.

Mage Origins
Circle Mage: you were the most gifted pupil in Kirkwall and were always looking for more knowledge, you were searching the archieves in the basement and came upon an idol that sat amidst statues of darkspawn that awoke as you touched the idol, you slew the darkspawn, including an ogre, but were infected, passing Grey Warden's recruit you to save your life.

Chasind Wild Apostate: You have been on the run your whole life, trained by a local healer and various books you found in an old ruin, templar's hear of you from a local that you healed, and when they come for you they do not wish to take you alive, after slaying three of them, the last one is about to strike, but is stopped by a passing Warden who conscripts you.

each origin would have atribute bonuses and would have a small unique quest and dialog,
Each of these options cast you as a grey warden recruit, with some impressive combat history, ideally there would be a second option for warden military history like in ME hero, survivor, ruthless, or similar impressive deeds.

I know some people would complain "Dragon Effect" but I think that this would be an excellent and compelling compromise between DA:O and DA2 style origins.

[Mykel54]

The origins were probably one of my favourite features in DAO. Considering that the PC is likely be human, bioware has no excuse to create a few decents origins that could flesh out the world and add different perspectives for replayability. One could be an orlesian, other a expatriate Fereldan, other a Rivaini, etc.

Having the origins handled like ME1 is probably the most economical option of giving some variety, but as a player i can´t stand for cheap cuts and i would like to see proper origin stories that flesh out the world. I enjoy a lot more playing a single origin than ten times selecting different shepard backstories, specially when the characters you meet in the origin (ex. Jowan, Gorim, etc.) then appear in some role in the rest of the game.

I really liked how origins handled it, and i think the compromise should be in making less origins (say only 3, instead of the 6 of DAO) but making sure they are well done, different enough and interesting to play. Bioware could even create one origin for each class, so the warrior has his own background, the rogue other backstory and the mage obviously needs to have his own origin (considering just how important the fact of being a mage is, storywise.)

[Celtic Latino]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Replaying Mass Effect has reminded me of something I'd love to see happen in DA3. In ME1 during the character creator you can choose one from three personal histories and 3 psychological profiles to define your Commander Shepard.

This is a simple and cheap (compared to full out origins) way to allow the player to personalize their PC. The current Shepard I made, for example, is a colony kid who at 16 was attacked by batarian slavers. Her whole family and everyone she ever knew was killed or taken. She alone survived. She inlisted into the military as soon as possible and became renown for her ruthless pursuit of goals. On Torfan her anger and relentless drive led to the complete slaughter of the batarians hidden on that moon. She also got a nice nifty scar that bisects her right eyebrow during the battle (please allow us to have scars in DA3. ME2 and ME3 took away our scars!). She is relentless and capable of being a walking war crime against slavers and batarians in general.

Now that's cool. While creating the look of the character I also choose the past and personality of the character. Since origins are often expensive (whole missions that many players will only see once if at all) this is a nice easy way to allow us to craft the character even before the character takes its first step.

And it's perfect for DA3. Throw in a few references and dialogues to the PC's past and psych profiles and you've just allowed the player a chance to connect on a deeper level with the character. We all win! It's cheaper than orgins, players feel more connected to the character, and it's just plain cool.

Now I'm a fan which means given a stage I will ask for the moon. But I'm also semi-reasonable. Even if this stuff gets mentioned like 3-5 times throughout an entire 50-60 hour game I'll be extremely happy. But Maker do not let that stop you from having personal past/profile based side quests or even entire plot lines.

And I'd like a horse.

In real life.

A new one. I'm sick of my old one.

+1 sans the horse. I'll take a lion instead 

Seriously though I loved that about Mass Effect, especially the first one where your very alignment and demeanor as well as psych profile affected sidequests and really could make two or three differing characters completely different people. Even the Origins although by the time you became a Warden it really didn't affect anything. 

With the races and classes, you can come up with some wild profiles. Here's my attempt in the theme of Inquisition. 

Warriors: 
Templar (Any Race)- You are an arm of the Chantry. Trained since you were young, you hunt those who would wield forbidden magics and apostates, for they threaten and abuse the Maker's very order. 
-Bonus- +5% Magic Resistance

Awar/Avar Barbarian (Human)- You grew up among the hills of the Awar people. Your tribe was slain when you were but a child and you are their last remnant. Although you have learned to mingle with society over the years, your heart has never truly been at home among civilization. 
-Bonus- +5% Critical Hit Chance

Exiled Champion (Dwarf)- You are a seasoned veteran of the underground barbarism known as The Proving. You fought day in and day out, destroying all who would oppose you. Yet one day your rival had your very name blackened and besmirched, causing you to become a casteless in society. Your only way out was to leave Orzammar and begin life as a surfacer. 
-Bonus- +5% Attack Power

Dalish Exile (Elf)- You are among the last of the Elvhan, a proud and insular people wandering Thedas in hopes of one day restoring your race to its former glory. You are trained in the ways of Dalish combat, beautiful and harsh as nature could be. Sadly, you would be outcasted from your people for reasons kept only to yourself. The heart of the Dales still beats strong in your heart, even if you are no longer of your tribe. 
-Bonus- +5% Nature Damage


Rogues:
Seeker (Any Race)- An arm of the Chantry, you are a member of the mobile fighting regiment known as the Seekers. Deadly and graceful with a blade or bow, you carry out the Divines orders through your instrument of peace. 
-Bonus- +5% Chance to Silence Enemy Mages

Bard (Human)- A daring rogue, a dashing swashbuckler, a talented musician. You encompass all of these traits and more. You are everything to everyone at any given time with your honeyed words and keen mental senses. You have worked for nobles and princes in times past. They bid for your highest loyalty...and the lives of their rivals. 
-Bonus= +5% Dodge Chance

Ex-Carta Member (Dwarf)- You were once part of a fearsome cartel that ruled the streets of the Commons and Outer Cities of Orzammar itself. Extortion, kidnapping, theft, even murder, no act was too demeaning if it meant getting coin to your pocket. You left for the surface world for reasons unknown, but rumor has it that you a branch of the cartel paid by humans and surfacers alike, keeping the currency underworld of Thedas thriving with your dagger. 
-Bonus= +5% Stun Chance


These are just some examples I can see (yes some of them inspired by Origins we've already seen) working well with DA3. 

Modifié par Celtic Latino, 07 octobre 2012 - 06:52 .

[Pedrak]

Origins were awesome (the one feature about DAO most people and reviews praised), but they won't do them again - too much work, I guess.

Mass Effect-like backgrounds with at least one related side quest are the next best thing.

[Saberchic]

If they still refuse to put in origins like DAO, then I guess a choice between backgrounds would be a good compromise. I can get behind that. 

[Medhia Nox]

I'd really prefer shorter Origins (well - actually I'd like a game based off the dwarf noble Origin) but this would be alright if it's all they're going to have.

[Felya87]

It's just a palliative. Nothing more.

Just as the different classes are a palliative for the lack of races.

I want origins and races back. Just a few words about the origins as ME is too little.

Is as if you want a glass of wine and the barman give you a glass of beer. Is alcholic too, but is not what you wanted.

[unbentbuzzkill]

if they include different origins and back stories then i would buy DA3 jell i'll even pre-order the collecters edition.

[KingRoxas]

Mykel54 wrote...
I really liked how origins handled it, and i think the compromise should be in making less origins (say only 3, instead of the 6 of DAO) but making sure they are well done, different enough and interesting to play. Bioware could even create one origin for each class, so the warrior has his own background, the rogue other backstory and the mage obviously needs to have his own origin (considering just how important the fact of being a mage is, storywise.)

[Nashimura]

In this interview (http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html) David Gaider said something on this.

"Whether we would go back to origins, it was a lot of hunting, because it was essentially a separate chapter for each origin. I think it's more likely that some kind of middle ground will arise. Mostly because of time issues but a lot of it was intentional as well, the ability to have your....let me get my words straight here, I am a writer in theory...the customization was stripped down at the beginning of DA2 and a lot of it was necessary, but ideally we'd like to have some more of that customization back in. Although as soon as you go back to all the customization Origins had you inherit some of the weakness Origins had in that respect as well. So I think I'd like to have some sort of origin or background ability, something for the player to pick in that respect, give themselves a little more flavor and choice on what kind of character they're playing"


So it is/was at least in there thoughts.

[Saberchic]

^Thanks for posting that.

It's good to see them acknowledging the fact that the origin stories are popular but that it might not be feasible to do. I like that they had considered doing different backgrounds and didn't just say, "Screw it. We'll do it how we want it."

[Vicious]

It's happening. You will be a human, but you will have a few 'origin' choices a la Mass Effect. As to whether or not they are playable, obviously it remains to be seen. But I certainly hope so, as if you're going to give the audience a mostly pre-set protagonist, you may as well have them care about him.


It didn't work for Hawke because nothing was customizable except his attitude. Also, his sibling dies in the first 10 minutes of gameplay and everyone's reaction was pretty silly.

[Eveangaline]

Vicious wrote...

It's happening. You will be a human, but you will have a few 'origin' choices a la Mass Effect. As to whether or not they are playable, obviously it remains to be seen.

Source?

[Saberchic]

Eveangaline wrote...

Vicious wrote...

It's happening. You will be a human, but you will have a few 'origin' choices a la Mass Effect. As to whether or not they are playable, obviously it remains to be seen.

Source?

.
Yes, I'd also like to see this source. I don't remember them confirming either claim.

[Nashimura]

Saberchic wrote...

^Thanks for posting that.

It's good to see them acknowledging the fact that the origin stories are popular but that it might not be feasible to do. I like that they had considered doing different backgrounds and didn't just say, "Screw it. We'll do it how we want it."

The whole interview is a really good read.

[Foolsfolly]

Nashimura wrote...

In this interview (http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html) David Gaider said something on this.

"Whether we would go back to origins, it was a lot of hunting, because it was essentially a separate chapter for each origin. I think it's more likely that some kind of middle ground will arise. Mostly because of time issues but a lot of it was intentional as well, the ability to have your....let me get my words straight here, I am a writer in theory...the customization was stripped down at the beginning of DA2 and a lot of it was necessary, but ideally we'd like to have some more of that customization back in. Although as soon as you go back to all the customization Origins had you inherit some of the weakness Origins had in that respect as well. So I think I'd like to have some sort of origin or background ability, something for the player to pick in that respect, give themselves a little more flavor and choice on what kind of character they're playing"


So it is/was at least in there thoughts.

That was actually a really fun read. And huzzah for more customization for our PC's past!