50 réponses à ce sujet

[Sejborg]

David Gaider wrote...
We're going to have an X??

Interesting. So we can expect some really arkward scenes then?

[syllogi]

Sejborg wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
We're going to have an X??

Interesting. So we can expect some really arkward scenes then?

In context he's talking about X as a variable, as opposed to an ex.  

But it would be kind of hilarious to have a canon former boy/girlfriend around, reminding you occasionally why they broke up with you, and being passive aggressive and rude while you're trying to flirt with new people.

[Brockololly]

David Gaider wrote...
... (save only for Alistair and Morrigan in DAO, who had a great deal more interaction with the main plot).

I would love it if we had far fewer companions in terms of quantity  but each one had far more importance and integration into the main plot, like Morrigan or Alistair.

Probably won't necessarily be the case since the leaked survey mentioned something like 10 companions but fewer but more in depth companions would be a nice change of pace.

David Gaider wrote...
It's clear that some people missed the investigative dialogues, but when they translate this into "there was less interaction", that's not really so.

Perception is everything. If the player feels like there wasn't much investigative dialogue or interaction with the companions when even if there empirically was, then I'd say you've got a problem in how that stuff is being presented to the player, like you mentioned with the quests.

[Blackrising]

syllogi wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
We're going to have an X??

Interesting. So we can expect some really arkward scenes then?

In context he's talking about X as a variable, as opposed to an ex.  

But it would be kind of hilarious to have a canon former boy/girlfriend around, reminding you occasionally why they broke up with you, and being passive aggressive and rude while you're trying to flirt with new people.

Now that would make for some funny scenes.

PC: "Hey there, potential LI. What's cookin'?"
Potential LI: "Oh, you know, nothing much. Just standing here, admiring y...-"
Ex: "HE'S AWFUL IN BED!"
Potential LI: "...I see. You know, I just remembered I gotta go do something...right over there..."
PC:

[Tootles FTW]

Dave of Canada wrote...

They were too tied to their personal issue that your relationship with them somewhat felt artificial, it's quite humorous doing rivalry path with friendship decisions on their quests. Merrill has split personalities if you ****** her off (100% rivalry) but give her the thing in Act 2.

I just completed a new DA2 playthrough and this happened to me with Merrill - I had her at 100% rivalry but still allowed her to complete the Mirror, yet her dialogue suggested I didn't.  This caused much confusion on my part until I realized it must have been a rivalry-tied thing.

And I enjoyed that each companion had their own individual quest per Act, but like my previous comment it was frustrating when said quest consisted of following them along on an obviously *stupid* idea that you couldn't persuade them from.  Some of these issues are due to hindsight on multiple playthroughs, I grant you (gawddammit, Anders).  Others I think could have been solved by allowing a different outcome dependent upon your involvement - as it stands, Merrill's mirror ALWAYS ends in death & disaster, yet I have to help her if I want progress in the relationship/story.  So in this case the companion interaction causes me to become frustrated with the individual and generally colors my opinion on the character - which really is not THEIR fault, persay, but a mechanic of the games.
....and I swear, I don't mean to pick on Merrill...   

A DAO example that shows multiple options for a companion quest: I could disagree with killing Flemeth for Morrigan, and the game gave me the choice to not only to let her live but to also lie to Morrigan in regards to it (to keep her happy).  

[Xilizhra]

Technically, Merrill's mirror doesn't end in death and disaster of its own accord: it's the result of Marethari's scheming.

[Knight of Dane]

David Gaider wrote...
... (save only for Alistair and Morrigan in DAO, who had a great deal more interaction with the main plot).

Wouldn't this be Aveline and Varric in DA2? She was with Hawke from Lothering and is a part of the Act 2 endning as well. And Varric had a big role in the expedition and the fact that he can't leave the party.

[Little Princess Peach]

David Gaider wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...
A big difference in the way that DAO and DA2 presented companions was that each of your party members had their own story arc.

DAO's party members had companion quests, sure, but they were just bumps in the road that netted minor benefits and, in a few cases, were necessary to complete a romance. Sure, it'd be nice to reunite Wynne with her old pupil or bring Oghren to meet his old flame, but it hardly makes a difference if you don't.

On the whole, I peg the level of interaction with each companion to be about the same. There's less investigative dialogues but the amount of time spent hanging out with companions is equal to or greater than in DAO.

That is indeed the case-- the weighting of where the dialogue was applied is different, but the overall volume is about the same (save only for Alistair and Morrigan in DAO, who had a great deal more interaction with the main plot).

It's clear that some people missed the investigative dialogues, but when they translate this into "there was less interaction", that's not really so. I can only surmise that they consider the three companion quests per character to be "quests" rather than "companion interaction". Either that or they just value the investigative conversations more highly.

Either way, my personal leaning is to move the companions to somewhere inbetween-- not the minor quest of DAO or the three quests of DA2, but something in the middle-- and put more content back into the personal dialogues. We have some things (things!) planned which actually make that more economical for us, which is nice and allows us more options. And, yes, random kissing and so forth too (since that appears to be a thing, and doesn't really cost us much to do-- so there's one feature I can say did indeed come from the forums).

We'll probably also get rid of the notifications that told you when a follower had new dialogue. That was intended as a convenience feature, since you had to go to so many different areas to talk to followers we didn't want the player going around Kirkwall repeatedly just to discover they had nothing new to say... but I think for some it also had the end result of depriving them of agency, in that they felt it was the followers driving the interaction rather than them. So we'll figure something else out for that.

There are other things (things!) which make some of the feedback on followers and interactions moot when comparing them to DA2... but that's not something I can really discuss without opening a whole other bunch of questions. ("What do you mean by X? We're going to have an X??")

So there you go. My sort-of-vague update of the day.

Well Somthing that has been on my ind when playing da:o was why don't the companions come to the warden from time to time?, I liked that in da2 the companions visted hawke but the conversations contributed to nothing.
I would of liked to see the companions go to the hero and just have a conversation instead of walking about left right and center looking for the companions.

Also I liked the letter in da2, I was wondering if a companion had somthing to sayy maybe they could leave the hero a message if they have not been interacting much,random locations would be nice like having a chat at the local pub if camp is near a city, or somewhere in the woods when gavering wood.
sorry If I sound demanding

[AbsoluteApril]

David Gaider wrote...
And, yes, random kissing and so forth too (since that appears to be a thing, and doesn't really cost us much to do-- so there's one feature I can say did indeed come from the forums).

My heart, it fills with joy!

David Gaider wrote...

We'll probably also get rid of the notifications that told you when a follower had new dialogue. That was intended as a convenience feature, since you had to go to so many different areas to talk to followers we didn't want the player going around Kirkwall repeatedly just to discover they had nothing new to say... but I think for some it also had the end result of depriving them of agency, in that they felt it was the followers driving the interaction rather than them. So we'll figure something else out for that.

Hooray! Also happy this is being reviewed and re-worked. Thank you Mr Gaider for giving this info!

[FINE HERE]

David Gaider wrote...
That is indeed the case-- the weighting of where the dialogue was applied is different, but the overall volume is about the same (save only for Alistair and Morrigan in DAO, who had a great deal more interaction with the main plot).

It's clear that some people missed the investigative dialogues, but when they translate this into "there was less interaction", that's not really so. I can only surmise that they consider the three companion quests per character to be "quests" rather than "companion interaction". Either that or they just value the investigative conversations more highly.

Either way, my personal leaning is to move the companions to somewhere inbetween-- not the minor quest of DAO or the three quests of DA2, but something in the middle-- and put more content back into the personal dialogues. We have some things (things!) planned which actually make that more economical for us, which is nice and allows us more options. And, yes, random kissing and so forth too (since that appears to be a thing, and doesn't really cost us much to do-- so there's one feature I can say did indeed come from the forums).

We'll probably also get rid of the notifications that told you when a follower had new dialogue. That was intended as a convenience feature, since you had to go to so many different areas to talk to followers we didn't want the player going around Kirkwall repeatedly just to discover they had nothing new to say... but I think for some it also had the end result of depriving them of agency, in that they felt it was the followers driving the interaction rather than them. So we'll figure something else out for that.

There are other things (things!) which make some of the feedback on followers and interactions moot when comparing them to DA2... but that's not something I can really discuss without opening a whole other bunch of questions. ("What do you mean by X? We're going to have an X??")

So there you go. My sort-of-vague update of the day.

Yay! That sounds promising!(I love things!)

About the companion quests, I guess I never considered them interactions because I always had other people with my Hawke and said companion, making it just feel more like a quest-quest. If it was just Hawke and the companion only, that might have been different. It would have felt more intimate or more like two friends hanging out. Sometimes, you just want to be alone with the guy/gal you want or spend time with your best bud. That's how I felt, anyhow.

[brushyourteeth]

David Gaider wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...
A big difference in the way that DAO and DA2 presented companions was that each of your party members had their own story arc.

DAO's party members had companion quests, sure, but they were just bumps in the road that netted minor benefits and, in a few cases, were necessary to complete a romance. Sure, it'd be nice to reunite Wynne with her old pupil or bring Oghren to meet his old flame, but it hardly makes a difference if you don't.

On the whole, I peg the level of interaction with each companion to be about the same. There's less investigative dialogues but the amount of time spent hanging out with companions is equal to or greater than in DAO.

That is indeed the case-- the weighting of where the dialogue was applied is different, but the overall volume is about the same (save only for Alistair and Morrigan in DAO, who had a great deal more interaction with the main plot).

It's clear that some people missed the investigative dialogues, but when they translate this into "there was less interaction", that's not really so. I can only surmise that they consider the three companion quests per character to be "quests" rather than "companion interaction". Either that or they just value the investigative conversations more highly.

Either way, my personal leaning is to move the companions to somewhere inbetween-- not the minor quest of DAO or the three quests of DA2, but something in the middle-- and put more content back into the personal dialogues. We have some things (things!) planned which actually make that more economical for us, which is nice and allows us more options. And, yes, random kissing and so forth too (since that appears to be a thing, and doesn't really cost us much to do-- so there's one feature I can say did indeed come from the forums).

We'll probably also get rid of the notifications that told you when a follower had new dialogue. That was intended as a convenience feature, since you had to go to so many different areas to talk to followers we didn't want the player going around Kirkwall repeatedly just to discover they had nothing new to say... but I think for some it also had the end result of depriving them of agency, in that they felt it was the followers driving the interaction rather than them. So we'll figure something else out for that.

There are other things (things!) which make some of the feedback on followers and interactions moot when comparing them to DA2... but that's not something I can really discuss without opening a whole other bunch of questions. ("What do you mean by X? We're going to have an X??")

So there you go. My sort-of-vague update of the day.

SOOO excited for this!

(and everything else sounds great too) 

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 30 septembre 2012 - 10:07 .

[LPPrince]

David Gaider wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...
A big difference in the way that DAO and DA2 presented companions was that each of your party members had their own story arc.

DAO's party members had companion quests, sure, but they were just bumps in the road that netted minor benefits and, in a few cases, were necessary to complete a romance. Sure, it'd be nice to reunite Wynne with her old pupil or bring Oghren to meet his old flame, but it hardly makes a difference if you don't.

On the whole, I peg the level of interaction with each companion to be about the same. There's less investigative dialogues but the amount of time spent hanging out with companions is equal to or greater than in DAO.

That is indeed the case-- the weighting of where the dialogue was applied is different, but the overall volume is about the same (save only for Alistair and Morrigan in DAO, who had a great deal more interaction with the main plot).

It's clear that some people missed the investigative dialogues, but when they translate this into "there was less interaction", that's not really so. I can only surmise that they consider the three companion quests per character to be "quests" rather than "companion interaction". Either that or they just value the investigative conversations more highly.

Either way, my personal leaning is to move the companions to somewhere inbetween-- not the minor quest of DAO or the three quests of DA2, but something in the middle-- and put more content back into the personal dialogues. We have some things (things!) planned which actually make that more economical for us, which is nice and allows us more options. And, yes, random kissing and so forth too (since that appears to be a thing, and doesn't really cost us much to do-- so there's one feature I can say did indeed come from the forums).

We'll probably also get rid of the notifications that told you when a follower had new dialogue. That was intended as a convenience feature, since you had to go to so many different areas to talk to followers we didn't want the player going around Kirkwall repeatedly just to discover they had nothing new to say... but I think for some it also had the end result of depriving them of agency, in that they felt it was the followers driving the interaction rather than them. So we'll figure something else out for that.

There are other things (things!) which make some of the feedback on followers and interactions moot when comparing them to DA2... but that's not something I can really discuss without opening a whole other bunch of questions. ("What do you mean by X? We're going to have an X??")

So there you go. My sort-of-vague update of the day.

This is the kind of thing I like to read. Thanks Mr. Gaider. :happy:

[jokey javik]

just let us talk to them any time it seems more convenient all around the only time it made sense for one of them not to open up dialogue was when you were on the deep roads findings Ohgren's wife because that was his sole focus point. As for gifts don't let it affect companion relationships to much so its not kill babies with one hand and give puppies and beer with the other.

[rolson00]

DA:O seems more because you can talk to party members whenever you want even if its just to say hey or kiss

[TEWR]

thats1evildude wrote...

On the whole, I peg the level of interaction with each companion to be about the same.

That's the main problem I have with DAII's companion interactions. DAO had conversations that, in terms of the timeframe of the game, equate to roughly a year's worth of conversations, ignoring conversations that happen outside of player control but still involve the player -- meaning when Leliana remarks on how she and the Warden stay up some nights keeping guard, I imagine they converse there.

In DAII, that one year's worth of conversations is spread out over the course of 3 years, and doesn't really help me feel connected to the companions when all I can hear from the companions are rehashed lines... or worse... lines that have no bearing on the current situation (like Aveline calmly remarking on how she's not well liked in Lowtown during the friggin' Qunari invasion).

In the case of DAII, I think quantity = quality, so long as the quantity itself isn't done to just be a quantity. Meaning that there should be more interactions with the companions, but they should also feel relevant enough to not feel like they were added simply for the sake of it.

For example, if I rival Anders I'm told he's losing himself increasingly to Justice/Vengeance, yet in terms of conversations and quests I only see this once per act -- I do not count the Fade instance for Feynriel as a second occurrence for Act 2, as that is Justice's/Vengeance's natural domain.

For all of 7 years on the Rivalry path, he's been losing his control. And yet, in terms of what the game shows us, he's been steady as a rock except when one instance arises in each act.

Why couldn't Hawke hold a conversation with Anders about Mages, only for Justice/Vengeance to take over and they begin a conversation -- or argument -- about Mages and Templars? Or other instances, as Anders' Rivalry increases?

Never mind how Hawke can be pro-Mage and anti-Anders' Abominationhood, yet Anders acts as if Hawke is anti-Mage entirely.

Spreading out the same amount of dialogue and interactions with DAO's companions for DAII's companions when you know them over the course of a decade felt like a bad decision from my perspective, especially when the companions had certain story arcs. As a result, it kinda clashed with the F/R system by making it seem too... incongruous, I guess is the word.

This isn't to say that I didn't care for the companions of DAII. I did care for them -- a great deal in fact -- but I just feel like DAII needed more.

No scratch that, DAII needed MOAR!!!

David Gaider wrote...

Either way, my personal leaning is to move the companions to somewhere inbetween-- not the minor quest of DAO or the three quests of DA2, but something in the middle-- and put more content back into the personal dialogues. We have some things (things!) planned which actually make that more economical for us, which is nice and allows us more options. And, yes, random kissing and so forth too (since that appears to be a thing, and doesn't really cost us much to do-- so there's one feature I can say did indeed come from the forums).

Yay, kissing! Hugs too? Especially when the LIs are crying, like when Merrill was crying over Pol's death or Marethari's?

Seriously, I do think that should be present. The option to give companions hugs, whether or not they're crying.

David Gaider wrote...

We'll probably also get rid of the notifications that told you when a follower had new dialogue. That was intended as a convenience feature, since you had to go to so many different areas to talk to followers we didn't want the player going around Kirkwall repeatedly just to discover they had nothing new to say... but I think for some it also had the end result of depriving them of agency, in that they felt it was the followers driving the interaction rather than them. So we'll figure something else out for that.

I think if you just changed it to having the companion state that they want to meet with you/discuss something with you if you turn around to talk to them -- say to Anders in the Viscount's Keep as you're walking around it -- and then have the quest update, it would work.

Like when Anders says "I need to talk to you. Can we meet at my clinic?" the quest log would update with Justice or whatever, saying "Anders would like to talk to you in his clinic privately. It must be important to him."

I think in principle you were on the right track, but by having the quest come before the dialogue it defeated the purpose of convenience without intruding on player agency.

David Gaider wrote...
So there you go. My sort-of-vague update of the day.

It wasn't that vague. In fact, I'd say it did give us a fair deal of information to go off of.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 octobre 2012 - 02:34 .

[Palipride47]

EDIT: Took too long to write my response, basically the same thing ^(that poster) said....

Tootles FTW wrote...

It's funny considering the in-game time we are supposed to have with the DA2 companions is pretty significant (6 years) compared to what we have in-game with the DAO party (several months?).

I think that is what trips me up more than anything else. In these "years," I have maybe talked to my LI twice or three times per Act. I just think that video games, in general, have a harder time with "long" (5 yrs to a decade) timelines, as opposed to one year timelines. How would you squeeze 7 years of interaction with an LI in around 50 hours of gameplay?

What also would strike me as strange are the weird snippets of conversation you think would not happen with "normal" romances. The codices hinted a bit more of your relationship dynamics, but you don't see them play out or even get to comment on them. You get these:

Fenris: That sister that we both found out I have, I've followed up on her for three years without telling you.....
Merrill: I haven't left the house and been staring at this mirror for three years.....
Isabela: I just showed up three years later, hi! Let's make out!
Anders: I'm getting crazier and you haven't noticed for three years......

I mean, if Anders (since I've only really played that one enough to remember how his romance arc works) is having severe mood swings, memory gaps, and is now in the spotlight with your status basically being the only reason he isn't being dragged away to the Gallows, I would hope there would be more conversations related to those problems.

These problems aren't even "mind exercises"...they are written in the codex.

Modifié par Palipride47, 01 octobre 2012 - 02:38 .

[MilaBanilla]

David Gaider wrote...

And, yes, random kissing and so forth too

You sir, made my day!
I can't wait to kiss my LI after killing my enemy with my bloody clothes and face. So romantic <3!

In all seriousness, I'm really pleased that feature will be included Kisses for everyone!

Modifié par Mila-banilla, 01 octobre 2012 - 03:27 .

[Palipride47]

Mila-banilla wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

And, yes, random kissing and so forth too

You sir, made my day!
I can't wait to kiss my LI after killing my enemy with my bloody clothes and face. So romantic <3!

In all seriousness, I'm really pleased that feature will be included Kisses for everyone!

Yes, what was missing from my game most of all was my FemHawke and Anders playing tonsil hockey covered in darkspawn gut next to the corpse of an ancient corrupted magister while Fenris looked on in horror and Varric took notes to share with Cassandra later 


*note to OP: just being silly, not trying to troll* (also applies to everyone else)

Modifié par Palipride47, 01 octobre 2012 - 03:37 .

[jillabender]

Palipride47 wrote...

Mila-banilla wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

And, yes, random kissing and so forth too

You sir, made my day!
I can't wait to kiss my LI after killing my enemy with my bloody clothes and face. So romantic <3!

In all seriousness, I'm really pleased that feature will be included Kisses for everyone!

Yes, what was missing from my game most of all was my FemHawke and Anders playing tonsil hockey covered in darkspawn gut next to the corpse of an ancient corrupted magister while Fenris looked on in horror and Varric took notes to share with Cassandra later 


*note to OP: just being silly, not trying to troll*

Haha, no worries! You made me chuckle, and so did the earlier comments about kissing Gamlen and Dog!

[Palipride47]

jillabender wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

Mila-banilla wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

And, yes, random kissing and so forth too

You sir, made my day!
I can't wait to kiss my LI after killing my enemy with my bloody clothes and face. So romantic <3!

In all seriousness, I'm really pleased that feature will be included Kisses for everyone!

Yes, what was missing from my game most of all was my FemHawke and Anders playing tonsil hockey covered in darkspawn gut next to the corpse of an ancient corrupted magister while Fenris looked on in horror and Varric took notes to share with Cassandra later 


*note to OP: just being silly, not trying to troll*

Haha, no worries! You made me chuckle, and so did the earlier comments about kissing Gamlen and Dog!

Hey, now, that should be up for serious discussion! 

Although, having DA2 be one 10 year long flashback does raise some funny considerations: 

Varric: Unable to contain himself, Anders seized Hawke in a passionate embrace, and the sensation of her touch, her lips against his stirred a fire in his heart..... 

Cassandra (head against wall): *bang* bang* bang* bang* 

Modifié par Palipride47, 01 octobre 2012 - 03:42 .

[jillabender]

Palipride47 wrote...

Yes, what was missing from my game most of all was my FemHawke and Anders playing tonsil hockey covered in darkspawn gut next to the corpse of an ancient corrupted magister while Fenris looked on in horror and Varric took notes to share with Cassandra later 


*note to OP: just being silly, not trying to troll*
 

jillabender wrote…

Haha, no worries! You made me chuckle, and so did the earlier comments about kissing Gamlen and Dog!

Hey, now, that should be up for serious discussion! 

Although, having DA2 be one 10 year long flashback does raise some funny considerations: 

Varric: Unable to contain himself, Anders seized Hawke in a passionate embrace, and the sensation of her touch, her lips against his stirred a fire in his heart..... 

Cassandra (head against wall): *bang* bang* bang* bang*

Hehe… what a great image!

Modifié par jillabender, 01 octobre 2012 - 04:16 .

[halO bendeR]

David Gaider wrote...
There are other things (things!) which make some of the feedback on followers and interactions moot when comparing them to DA2... but that's not something I can really discuss without opening a whole other bunch of questions. ("What do you mean by X? We're going to have an X??")

How come no one is attempting to pick this statement apart yet? It's oozing with speculation fodder.

What 'feedback on followers' are we talking about here specifically?
What on earth is variable 'x'? is it 'in-game spouse'? 'co-op partner'?
And how can companion-related quests and interactions become more economical? Is Bioware adopting a Fable-like gesture system where you can only communicate with your companions through farting and chicken noises? 

See David, we're going to ask a bunch of questions no matter what, so you might as tell us everything

Modifié par halO bendeR, 01 octobre 2012 - 05:35 .

[Palipride47]

halO bendeR wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
There are other things (things!) which make some of the feedback on followers and interactions moot when comparing them to DA2... but that's not something I can really discuss without opening a whole other bunch of questions. ("What do you mean by X? We're going to have an X??")

How come no one is attempting to pick this statement apart yet? It's oozing with speculation fodder.

What 'feedback on followers' are we talking about here specifically?
What on earth is variable 'x'? is it 'in-game spouse'? 'co-op partner'?
And how can companion-related quests and interactions become more economical? Is Bioware adopting a Fable-like gesture system where you can only communicate with your companions through farting and chicken noises? 

See David, we're going to ask a bunch of questions no matter what, so you might as tell us everything

I think no one is trying because the speculation fodder processor is overloaded, and we need to get the bits of Cullen, Morrigan and multiple origins speculative pieces still cloggin up the vents before we process these new tidbits and then proceed to go widly off topic with them. 

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

Seems like a lot of things with DA3 are going to be a mix between DA2 and Origins styles. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Both had their strengths and weaknesses.