129 réponses à ce sujet

[TheImmortalBeaver]

Eh, Liara wasn't THAT great. If anything, the ridiculous amount of dialogue and screen time she had related to other love interests really annoys me, so I'll be happy to see a new Asari with whatever crew you roll with in future ME games.

I'm going to just say this and run: Miranda was better. *runs away and puts on flame-resistant armor*

[Eterna]

I hope that in the next game we can choose to be an Asari.

[Beefprophet]

Bah, Asari are lame anyways. Who says we need representatives from all the races? We should get a Batarian or a Vorcha instead.

[Zardoc]

Wait, am I missing something here? Didn't Samara already replace Liara in ME2?

[Slayer299]

Shadrach 88 wrote...

This post is about as subjective as it gets. If you dislike or are indifferent to a character, of course they'll be easy to replace. If you're more attached, then the inverse is true. A thread like this is pointless other than to garner who likes which character.

This says it all in a hatbox and should end the tread right there.

[Smashmouth]

Eterna5 wrote...

I hope that in the next game we can choose to be an Asari.

Good point. Now that we're familiar with the game it could be a DA origins type of game where u choose a race/class and go on a quest. wouldn't mind an expansion being a single game as oppossed to a money grabbing trilogy

[What a Succulent Ass]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Lilliun wrote...

Of course another Asari can replace Liara. I'd say Liara is one of the more easily replaceable squaddies, you could never replace Garrus.

A bro-character who makes one-liners and constantly goes 'just like old times'?

I have yet to hear a legitimate argument as to why Garrus is compelling.

As for the thread: Yes. Easily. None of the ME characters are irreplaceable, really, especially being the few characters with contentious opinions that made them feel more like organic personalities (read: Ashley) had them removed as the series progressed.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Actually, Mordin is amongst the three I'd consider exceptions...though I would submit that Mordin's development could have been better.

[Seboist]

Liara did a good job of replacing herself with a new persona each game, so a new Asari wouldn't be a big deal.

[Deadlysyns]

Liara is utterly forgettable shes just a blue lady who thinks shes smart because she knows things about a long dead race and is Shadow broker but shes a horrible Shadow broker Cerberus found and destroyed her base i really wish i could of killed her

[Seboist]

I would have liked for my Shep to kill her and eat her tentacles for dinner.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Who are the other two?

And I agree about Mordin (he's one of my personal favourites).

ME1 Ashley and ME2 Legion. Whilst they may not be as well-liked (the former more so than the latter) and still utilise common tropes, they are relatively well-rounded, and all the facets of their character are informed by their backgrounds rather than obligatory fulfilment of archetype.

The other characters are rather like a collection clichés (some more than others). Likeable clichés, but clichés nonetheless.

Edit: Now that I think of it, weren't they written by the same guy?

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 01 octobre 2012 - 04:19 .

[Joy Sauce]

_Syn_ wrote...

GarvakD wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Lilliun wrote...

Of course another Asari can replace Liara. I'd say Liara is one of the more easily replaceable squaddies, you could never replace Garrus.

A bro-character who makes one-liners and constantly goes 'just like old times'?

This.  If a squad character were to be replaced (Ashley is always gone in my trilogy,soo...) I would choose Garrus over Liara.  Liara is in my top five characters of the trilogy.  I liked Garrus in ME1.  ME2, meh.  ME3, no.  Especially after something I witnessed in one of my playthroughs.  

What did you witness?

He made out with his imaginary girlfriend in a playthrough where she wasn't even his girlfriend. Talimancers can be petty and pathetic like that. If Tali isn't romanced by Shepard, then no one can romance her and she should die alone, this is what Talimancers believe.

[Barquiel]

no

But I support the idea of playing as an asari.

[darthnick427]

Logan Cloud wrote...

You're setting yourself up for a lot of hate with this thread.

Personally, I don't think so. Liara's the reason I like Asari in the first place. Just like Garrus is the reason I like Turians. Or how Thane is the reason I like Drell.

Characters are what Bioware does best. They know how to make people care about the people they're working with, and I like that about them. The Mass Effect team is as irreplaceable as the party in Origins. And yes, I deeply prefer the party in Origins to the one in DA2.

I can learn to love new characters just fine, but I could never replace my favorites from the old games.

Well put Logan. I agree completely

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

Of course. If the new Asari has a big a-nvm.

As long as the new Squadmate has a decent unique personality and isn't like Liara. Tough girl attitude? Or spiritual attitude?

I don't care.

[Eclipse merc]

I don't think they could. Liara FTW

[No Liberty]

I thought every Asari was Liara.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

@ RJ: Ah, okay. Personally I never really liked Ashley, but she did seem to be one of the most "real" characters in the first game. Legion I have kind of a love/hate opinion on.

Understandable. I very much enjoy Mordin and Legion, but they are far from being my favourites. And honestly, my fondness for Legion grew retroactively after I replayed ME2 so I could more accurately bellyache about why I dislike the new direction the geth were taken.

To be fair, I feel like there are also "almost" characters who have the foundation for complexity, but fall short of it. Jack is one. So are Miranda and Samara. Thane also falls victim to this. The thing all of them have in common is that the intersection of backstory and character are in such trite manner, that they are more akin to comic book hero than anything (Thane especially, whom I've always completely dismissed until recently because of the nigh insulting extent he's crafted to cater to "female tastes" to the point of caricature). When a characters' premise stretches credulity, you must go equal lengths to believably characterise them. Imagine if the above characters weren't just personalities layered over archetypes. What if their personalities were multifaceted? What if those personalities paid more than token tributes (I curse more than average, I'm a tsundere, I'm stoic, I'm "mysterious" and "philosophical") to backstory?

It would take quite a bit of research. Really, what might the mannerisms, beliefs, and behaviours of a person who was mentally and physically tortured as a child and sexually and emotionally abused as an adolescent be? By how many orders of magnitude might they be more severe than "angry, cursing teenager"? What would her psychological health be like? How would her past inform her interests? What about a person who has internalized lifelong sexual and literal objectification? How would her ideas of loyalty, autonomy, control, and self-worth inform her interactions with someone either as obsessed with displays of dominance and control as she is, or a technical idealist? What sort of cataclysm would it take for her to leave the only proxy by which she derived her self-esteem for most of her life? How strong is the force that impels her dedication? Could you f*ck it out of her? Really? What about a person who has become so emotionally broken and so desperate for order in her world that she numbs herself to her internal world, kills it, and replaces it with unwavering dogma? Would it be possible to explore the state of the psyche when it reaches such a valley? How valid is such a coping mechanism? How would a morally dissociative assassin's life of murder inform his interactions with a person who strongly espouses personal responsibility? An amoral/immoral one? Why can't I argue Cartesian dualism with this lizard bastard?

It's a veritable treasure trove of content, and you would never want for thematic material: BDD, psychological effects of isolation and abandonment, parental irresponsibility, child soldiering, how might dissociation from morality, determinism, the futility (and waste of) a life dedicated to violence, agency, control, desensitisation Rigidity, asceticism, self-denial, duty, cultural stagnation, religious extremism, the danger of clinging to doctrine (religious or otherwise) for stability, meaning, and direction....

These are heavy stories and ideas that are treated flippantly and addressed inadequately, or at best suffer from reductionism. All the effort needed to make these characters feel "real" is lacking.

On a similar note, I wouldn't put him in the exceptions category, but Kaidan is more "almost" than the "almost" characters listed above...and even then, whilst his character is most definitely uncommon to most video games, he does fall into the ubiquitous "Paragon BioWare Guy" archetype (thankfully, though, unlike most, he doesn't have a manchild streak or rely on the PC to resolve his emotionally stunted growth). That being said, I wouldn't call him boring either in personality or character being that he has exactly what the above lack: A clear backstory that realistic affects his mannerisms, personality, and psyche, and logically informs his decision (hell, Shepard can call him out on this).

It's easy to extrapolate how the event changed him (better, he tells you outright), and as a bonus, you can extrapolate minor explorations of self-defence and the psychological effects of taking life. Bonus bonus, the bloke had issues, but he doesn't drag the rotted skeletons along with him like a dead goddamn albatross. The only issue this leaves is that he has no compelling character arc (he has one, it just isn't that interesting) in the first game. I'd say his growth over the series is fairly significant (and I see where they were going with it--less hesitance and so forth), but I just thought it was weird. It feels more like a disposition change than it does development (and it's still not that interesting either), but that may be because I always thought of him as the Private Witt of Mass Effect (if you haven't seen The Thin Red Line, WATCH IT NOW). I don't really consider hesitance and restraint as character flaws, so I'd much rather see how someone with his history and proclivities deals with war, sacrifice, and the cognitive dissonance that comes with regularly taking life. But nope. He just says "arse" and "sh*t" more.

This is why I say ME1 Ash is one of the better written characters in the series. Her likes, dislikes, personal history, character motivations, flaws, and contradictions are all articulated clearly, and they intersect logically to create a multi-dimensional person. This isn't to say that it couldn't be better. I would love to have seen themes of religious doubt explored through her character (which briefly were before it was chopped) in light of magical resurrections and the reality of the reapers crashing down on her head. There's also that she's a marine in the first place. What does she believe? Did she read the Summa Theologica and subscribe to DDE? Can I see some internal conflict? No? Not that I expect the majority of the ME fanbase to be able to handle such discussions, considering how butthurt it got that she mentioned she believes in God once in a throwaway comment.

As a caveat, I'm not trying to say Ash or Mordin or Legion are paragons of excellent writing, just that they are significantly better constructed than their counterparts. Lbr, they're still from BioWare and are therefore somewhat shallow. For the most part BioWare doesn't produce realistic characters.







/ramble





Edit: Damn, this **** is long.

Editedit: And it makes no damn sense. Damn, I'm tired.

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 01 octobre 2012 - 01:02 .

[excelon]

Yeah, the whole crew can be replaced easily.

[Unschuld]

Liara can EASILY be replaced. The question is, do I want her to be?







The answer is no. I'd rather have her just be gone. That character slot she fills is dreadful.