286 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Bioware has a habit though of bringing dead people back to life, retconning and (abusing imho) established characters *cough Anders* 

If all the hordes of people who misjudge and mischaracterize Anders got together and pitched in a couple bucks each, they could probably fully fund a Kickstarter game where Anders can be whatever nonsense they imagine him to be, instead of what he actually is in the games that already exist.

They intentionally took a well loved, well liked character and turned him into a mass murderer, that is what I refer to regarding abusing his character. They could of used someone else or any other mage to be implanted with Justice and I don't think anyone would of minded much. They chose to twist a well loved one for emotional effect knowing he was well liked. It's like if they took Alistair and turned him into a mass murderer which turns on your party and butchers Morrigan, Leliana and the rest because he mentally snapped due to the taint or something after throwing away his humor and likeable traits. Would be same sort of abuse imho.

Now they can do this because they write the characters so can come up with any reason they want to turn any well loved character into a mass murderer but they don't have to do it, they did not have to use Anders for that role. They could write any companion from likeable to insane killer if they wanted, maybe Varric in his travels goes insane for some reason or another maybe some event witnesses, then at some point runs into Merrill and he kills her. Maybe if was in ME they rewrote Liara to have been indoctrinated and goes on killing spree, killing Garrus and make the protaganist forced to kill her.

These things they can do and do it anytime they want and make anything happen and apply a good excuse for it. As writers they could make it happen and justify it because they write the story but just like some people are not happy they did such to Anders, people who like Varric or Merrill would also be unhappy. Same with Liara. The abuse comment is not about if they can make a plausable excuse, it is about using well loved ones and twisting them as opposed to using new characters.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 30 septembre 2012 - 11:12 .

[CrazyRah]

More options the better i suppose. I personally got no issue with it

[jackofalltrades456]

I'm hoping Leliana will just return as a major NPC akin to Wrex's role in ME 2&3, or a temp-companion like Liara in the Shadow Broker DLC and Tallis in MOTA. I feel like having her return as a romanceable companion would really become more trouble than it's worth. It's better if they just have her mention the romance a few times during a meeting and try to have an off screen reunion with the warden at the end (if he/she lives). This would be the safest thing to do, imo

Modifié par jackofalltrades456, 30 septembre 2012 - 10:49 .

[Eveangaline]

I don't think past love interests are going to be our companions, unless there's something I haven't heard about?

[jackofalltrades456]

Eveangaline wrote...

I don't think past love interests are going to be our companions, unless there's something I haven't heard about?

We haven't had any companions announced yet, but there has been a lot of speculation of Leliana becoming  one of the new PCs follower due to her death retcon, her Origins DLC, her appearances in Dragon Age 2 and Asunder, and her connection to the Divine & the Warden. She's going to have a role in Dragon Age 3. This has been long cofirmed. Whether she'll be an major npc or follower is still in question, though.

[Lenimph]

Heh I think Zjarcal had a point with the Leliana/Divine thing. I think personally Leliana should be blocked off as a LI not just because of whatever her relationship with the warden was but maybe she could have already moved one with someone who isn't a player character, or is just too preoccupied with her work to even be with the player character of DA3 in the first place.

[LinksOcarina]

Id say yes. In one of my playthroughs my warden fell in love with Zevran, and when he sacrificed himself and was found in the next game (post bug) he said he was not interested in sex and it felt right to me.

Of course, that is situational. Maybe a plot could be a character getting over the death, but that depends on how it's handled.

[KiwiQuiche]

Well, Zevran gives Isabela the brush off in DA2 and it was what, 7 years when you meet him since the Warden died? If he was romanced of course. And of course the fans were the ones to fix that bug, not Bioware. >:|

Even so, I want no pass LI to be romancable in DA3; they have had enough screentime, give me new chracters and LIs.

[d-boy15]

no Jacob 2.0, please...

[Allan Schumacher]

It's betrayal on her part because she proclaimed the warden the love her life.To move on to another is a blantant betrayal on an emotional level.

Is it a betrayal to the Warden, or a betrayal to Emazmination?

[Maria Caliban]

Emzamination wrote...

Should past Love interest be locked out in Da3 for saves with ultimate sacrifice wardens?

No.

Emzamination wrote...

That may no longer be an option.David has inadvertently solidified isabela's return. - Link

Her name is being revealed in the comics.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 01 octobre 2012 - 12:42 .

[TheJediSaint]

Maria Caliban wrote...


Her name is being revealed in the comics.

Assuming she doesn't lie about it, of course.

[upsettingshorts]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
The abuse comment is not about if they can make a plausable excuse, it is about using well loved ones and twisting them as opposed to using new characters.

Is it the fact Anders is a "loved one" what prevents said fans from recognizing that this was an organic development for his character and not simply his being tossed into the wood chipper for dramatic effect?

d-boy15 wrote...

no Jacob 2.0, please...

The thread wasn't asking:

"Should past love interests go on vacation while you're under house arrest, soak up the rays on a Mediterranean beach, and knock up an old flame before dumping the protagonist and naming their kid after her?"

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 01 octobre 2012 - 12:51 .

[Maria Caliban]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Barbantious wrote...

If the warden is dead that could lead to some very interesting dialogue, i'd certainly want to romance Leliana again if it made sense for the character. People need to stop being so possessive over a god damn video game love interest. 

I've been unapologetically uncomfortable with, and critical of, these arguments ever since so many railed against Fenris hooking up with Isabela in games where their protagonist was not romancing Fenris.

Characters, even romanceable ones, do not lose their agency when they get intimate with a protagonist.  They are not owned, either whole or in part, and none are required to share your (or anyone else's) idea of the obligations of love or the implications of intimacy but their own.  If the writers determine that they want to bring back a previously romanceable character, and the writers determine that said character would be open to a romance with the new protagonist, then that's that.  

Indeed.

[jackofalltrades456]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The thread wasn't asking:

"Should past love interests go on vacation while you're under house arrest, soak up the rays on a Mediterranean beach, and knock up an old flame before dumping the protagonist and naming their kid after her?"

 I did find it pretty funny  that Jacob's new girlfriend wanted to name her child after his ex.

[Direwolf0294]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

It's betrayal on her part because she proclaimed the warden the love her life.To move on to another is a blantant betrayal on an emotional level.

Is it a betrayal to the Warden, or a betrayal to Emazmination?

Leliana believes she will one day see the Warden again so yes, hooking up with someone else is a betrayal of the Warden.

[Mark of the Dragon]

I personally dont think past love options shuld be viable in future games. Simply because it is a betrayal. I dont want ot know MY Warden or Hawke romanced a person just to have that companion through themselves at someone else when he isnt around. Take for example Isabela who left with Hawke wherever he went to. To have her back as a LI or even companion in DA3 would be a story inconsistency and pretty much make any past romances feel useless.

[Dave of Canada]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Leliana believes she will one day see the Warden again so yes, hooking up with someone else is a betrayal of the Warden.

Hardly. When my father died, my mother said the same thing as she believes in an afterlife but that doesn't stop her from dating other men to seek personal happiness. It's idiotic to feel betrayed when you're dead and your loved one moves on, it's part of life.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 01 octobre 2012 - 01:12 .

[Masha Potato]

That would make for some awkward moments in afterlife though

[N147]

jackofalltrades456 wrote...

Huntress wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

I'm torn on this subject...On one hand I want my LI to mourn my warden into old age and beyond never being able to love another again but on the other hand...I realize that maybe I'm being selfish and they should be able to possibly move on to find new happiness with the new protagonist should they appear in Da3 seeing as my dead warden can no longer provide the succor for the heart and soul they require.

Lamens terms: While I want leliana to move on, I can't help but feel she'd still be unfaithful to my warden if she were to potentially get romantically involved with this new girl even tho my warden's dead.

Thoughts?

For how long you want Leliana to mourn the warden? After DA2 it had pass 7 years since the Archdemon was defeted.

How in Thedas??... How if the warden has been DEAD for 7 years how does Leliana betray him or her if she wants to re-start her life?
Dead is dead last I heard, or maybe you want leliana to bath, feed and dress the warden corpse until she dies?
am I right?
Or maybe Leliana should carry around a picture of the warden and talk to it before going to sleep, make room in the table for the picture and tell the inn keeper: "today s/he pays"? that sound as how Alistair saw her anyway. carry on.

Well..

Leliana seems to be the type of person that struggles getting over traumatic events. She still seemed a bit traumatized over the betrayal of her first love, Marjolaine. She was even suicidal over the death of the Warden for her epilogue before the retcons happened.

Even her romance itself shows how clingy she was . All Leliana talks about is how she wants to be by the Warden's side. Even that whole Alindra story was really just her asking the Warden if he/she believes in eternal love.

Am I the only one who doesn't have a problem with that sort of thing? Actually I dare say I prefer it in women. 

[syllogi]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

It's betrayal on her part because she proclaimed the warden the love her life.To move on to another is a blantant betrayal on an emotional level.

Is it a betrayal to the Warden, or a betrayal to Emazmination?

Leliana believes she will one day see the Warden again so yes, hooking up with someone else is a betrayal of the Warden.

If the Warden is alive, but the story dictates that he/she left Leliana to go off into the Bioware Shadowy Void™, then I understand why a player would feel unhappy about seeing Leliana move on with a new romance.  The player chose a specific ending, chose to be with Leliana, and then they're told that this choice doesn't matter, that their character did something else after the end of the game.  This would leave many who felt attached to their Warden feeling frustrated and annoyed.

BUT, if the Warden chose Ultimate Sacrifice, or did not complete the romance with Leliana, it is pretty silly to complain about her moving on years later.  She's a character in a game, but if her story is going to continue to be told, I would hope that she is allowed to develop and grow in her own way.  And moving on from a lover's death is part of life, for most people.  

Personally, I'd like to know that my choices matter at the end of each hero's story.  And dying is a choice with a consequence, in that the people your character loved are going to keep living.

[Il Divo]

If the character development feels natural, by all means. If the cast members are instead given the Jacob treatment, then absolutely not.

As others have said, characters exist independently of our PCs. There's nothing inherently wrong with them making independent decisions.

Modifié par Il Divo, 01 octobre 2012 - 01:20 .

[congealeddgtllvr]

All of the previous female LIs should be pregnant at the start of DAIII. The father of each child should be the Thedas equivalent of one of the dudes from Jersey Shore, whatever that would be. Either that or a darkspawn version of one of the dudes form Jersey Shore, though that might not quite fit the lore. They should be unavailable for adventuring since they need to spend their time cleaning their baby daddy's apartment and doing his laundry.

The previous male LI's should have discovered that they are exclusively attracted to the opposite gender of the Warden/Hawke they romanced in the previous game. During a dialogue they should in passing mention how a previous relationship woke them up to the fact that they were of this orientation. They should remark on how relieved they are to finally be in a relationship with someone that they can at least look at naked without wanting to vomit, let alone touch.

[Zjarcal]

Lenimph wrote...

Heh I think Zjarcal had a point with the Leliana/Divine thing. I think personally Leliana should be blocked off as a LI not just because of whatever her relationship with the warden was but maybe she could have already moved one with someone who isn't a player character, or is just too preoccupied with her work to even be with the player character of DA3 in the first place.

Leliana and the Divine, OTP. <3

Modifié par Zjarcal, 01 octobre 2012 - 01:30 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

It's betrayal on her part because she proclaimed the warden the love her life.To move on to another is a blantant betrayal on an emotional level.

Is it a betrayal to the Warden, or a betrayal to Emazmination?

There is no Emzamination, only Zuul.



 But seriously, I think this topic goes back to an interesting piece of info I found out about Portal 2, how people who were alpha-testing the game didn't mind playing as a new character than the first game... until the part they encountered Glados, who then "re-introduced" herself, in a manner of speaking, to the player, but who was a stranger to the character. This caused a rift in the experience of the player, who said it was not enjoyable to play.

I think this is the same thing many people will feel when they encounter their old companions again in later games as a different PC, especiially if they are involved in romances. If your Warden could romance Anders in Awakening, and then Hawke could in DA2, there would have been cries of terrible, terrible vengeance and hate against Anders on these boards. 

The same would happen if a dead Warden romanced someone in DA:O and then that person finds love anywhere else, but ESPECIALLY in the arms of a new PC. I would suggest no re-romance of prior romanceable characters.