43 réponses à ce sujet

[Verit]

Davik Kang wrote...
AKA listened.

Let the trolling begin!

I don't intend to derail this into an ending debate, but I was disgusted by the way they handled this. They stated multiple times before release that you wouldn't need to play mutliplayer to get all the possible endings, then after release they still claimed it was possible for months while Chris Priestly closed threads where people complained that it wasn't possible, and THEN when they finally fixed it, they didn't even admit they promised this to begin with. Instead they claimed it was "no longer necessary", which of course means they flat out lied to us pre-release and they really were trying to force people into MP. So yeah they "listened", but I'm incredibly dissapointed in Bioware for not being honest with us.

[Davik Kang]

-Draikin- wrote...
I don't intend to derail this into an ending debate, but I was disgusted by the way they handled this. They stated multiple times before release that you wouldn't need to play mutliplayer to get all the possible endings, then after release they still claimed it was possible for months while Chris Priestly closed threads where people complained that it wasn't possible, and THEN when they finally fixed it, they didn't even admit they promised this to begin with. Instead they claimed it was "no longer necessary", which of course means they flat out lied to us pre-release and they really were trying to force people into MP. So yeah they "listened", but I'm incredibly dissapointed in Bioware for not being honest with us.

Is it confirmed as true that you can't get all endings wihtout MP?  Cos if so that's pretty bad.

[Davik Kang]

Argolas wrote...

To make MP 100% optional, I am grateful for that. You needed at least 4000 EMS for the breath scene before EC, that means 8000 TMS without MP. I do not know if this is possible without DLC at all, but I only got less than 7500 in my "perfect" playthrough.

I think someone posted somewhere that they got about 9500.  Sounds pretty insanely hard though.  I'm guessing it involves buying DLC.

[Verit]

Davik Kang wrote...
Is it confirmed as true that you can't get all endings wihtout MP?  Cos if so that's pretty bad.

It was definitely impossible, players spent months figuring out the maximum scores. Here's my reaction to Chris Priestly's post:

http://social.biowar...5580/4#12697918

Chris never replied to any of the posts that called him out on this. This is the closest he got:

Chris Priestly wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Does this mean that SP EMS has been fixed?

That would be one way to phrase it.

I'm really dissapointed they weren't just honest with us. This really changed the way I look at Bioware now, I can no longer put any trust in them if this is the way even their community managers talk to us.

Modifié par -Draikin-, 30 septembre 2012 - 09:12 .

[Reorte]

iakus wrote...

Who's trolling?  This is my stated opinion.

If they'd truly listened, they'd have elaborated on the breath scene further.  You know, add "clarity and closure"

That's a separate issue though. What this did is fix the problem where you couldn't get all possible endings in the game as it was without playing MP. Whilst it's bad that they held out for so long on it they clearly eventually saw this particular problem and 100% fixed it. They listened on this issue.

[JamieCOTC]

Prior to ME3's release, Hudson and other devs stated that players could get the best possible ending through SP alone. The question no one ever asked was which ending was the "best" according to BW. In the leaked script, the best ending was synthesis (or what would become synthesis), which is very easy to get through SP alone.

Shepard must now make his final decision - to control the Reapers, to destroy the Reapers, or if they had a perfect game to become one with the Reapers.

After the backlash on the ending, BW went to a lot of trouble to tone down the notion of a "best ending," going so far as to state that they did not wish to make any of the endings prescriptive or canon. This was especially true in regards to IT. In other words, the best ending was whatever ending the player chose. Unfortunately, that left one of the possible "best" endings out of reach through SP alone. So, I believe the ending fiasco played a role in the reason for the EMS change, however I still have to give kudos to BW for doing it. Another game company might not have listened at all.

In other words, they f*cked up, but in then end they did right by the fans.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 30 septembre 2012 - 10:00 .

[Verit]

JamieCOTC wrote...
Prior to ME3's release, Hudson and other devs stated that players could get the best possible ending through SP alone. The question no one ever asked was which ending was the "best" according to BW. In the leaked script, the best ending was synthesis (or what would become synthesis), which is very easy to get through SP alone.

This is simply not true, they said we could get ALL endings. Here's Mike Gamble saying exactly that:

Of course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get all the same endings and same information, it’s just a totally different way of playing.

www.nowgamer.com/features/1229983/mass_effect_3_developer_interview_shepard_coop_story_details.html

Which months after the release, changed to this:

Chris Priestly wrote:
The original experience of the game was meant to reward players who did extra work (multiplayer, importing a save, playing the iOS games, etc) with greater levels of success in the end

Really, how is that not lying to your fans?

Modifié par -Draikin-, 30 septembre 2012 - 10:15 .

[AlanC9]

Shinobu wrote...

Part of that was because Bioware thought the "best" ending was Synthesis, which could be accomplished without MP. Unfortunately for them, the fans believed the "best" ending was the breath scene, which wasn't possible without MP.

That doesn't actually explain why the "breath" clip requires more EMS than Synthesis.

[SpamBot2000]

They retroactively made numerous statements about getting optimum ending results with SP only true. And you, BSN, shamefully accused them of 'lying'. You were not intelligent enough to realize that theirs is a Truth unmoored from the base temporal flux.

[AlanC9]

Davik Kang wrote...

I think someone posted somewhere that they got about 9500.  Sounds pretty insanely hard though.  I'm guessing it involves buying DLC.

Whenever someone got more than 7600 or so, we found he was using a modified coalesced file. Among other things that are useful to tweak, the WA values are stored in the file.

Note that a lot of pirate copies come with a modified file for some reason. Chances are that anyone who thought you could get enough EMS had stolen the game.

[Village_Idiot]

AlanC9 wrote...

Shinobu wrote...

Part of that was because Bioware thought the "best" ending was Synthesis, which could be accomplished without MP. Unfortunately for them, the fans believed the "best" ending was the breath scene, which wasn't possible without MP.

That doesn't actually explain why the "breath" clip requires more EMS than Synthesis.

Agreed. From a logical perspective it makes zero sense. The events leading up to ME3's conclusion are not different in any way in high EMS or perfect EMS Destroy, so why Shepard survives one yet not the other is beyond me.

If EMS had had some effect on the beam run in perfect EMS destroy, for instance having Harbinger show up too late to turn Shepard into crispy barbeque, then it would have been easier to comprehend. As it is, it seems that having more fleets therefore equates to Shepard being extra resistant to death beams and explosions.

[Davik Kang]

-Draikin- wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote:
The original experience of the game was meant to reward players who did extra work (multiplayer, importing a save, playing the iOS games, etc) with greater levels of success in the end

Really, how is that not lying to your fans?

To be fair, that statement doesn't 100% prove that he's lying.  Extra work could include doing all possible sidequests and scanning all planets for resources.

AlanC9 wrote...
Whenever someone got more than 7600 or so, we found he was using a modified coalesced file. Among other things that are useful to tweak, the WA values are stored in the file.

This is pretty damning though.

[AlanC9]

Well, more EMS does mean a better-functioning Crucible. Maybe it doesn't explode quite so much?

Yeah, I know it's silly.

[Taboo]

No no no I'm pretty sure he survives because of his loved ones.

That gives you a +100 Resistance to Explosions in RPG games.

You know I'm right.

[Village_Idiot]

AlanC9 wrote...

Well, more EMS does mean a better-functioning Crucible. Maybe it doesn't explode quite so much?

Yeah, I know it's silly.

Ahahaha, yeah I suppose. Perhaps those extra war assets meant the "Shoot in case of Reaper invasion" pipe was fitted with water sprinklers.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Taboo-XX wrote...
Have you tried using a pen and paper to do what they asked you to do? You have clarity, they asked you to make your own closure.

Try it, it'll help.

Personally I have no issue with the above idea, I can however sympathize with someone who paid to see how a story ended and than was told to use their imagination.

@ Davik Kang and Draikin

Chris Priestly wrote...

People have been asking about the EMS and how it changes in the Extended Cut DLC.

The original experience of the game was meant to reward players who did extra work (multiplayer, importing a save, playing the iOS games, etc) with greater levels of success in the end, which is appropriate to a
story about a war that needs every possible advantage in order to win.  But now that we are moving to a post-launch period and have additional content for the endings, we wanted to make it easier for all players to
experience even the best-cast endings.  Playing multiplayer is just one component is a sea of variables that can affect your ending.  If you don't play MP, you have to find other ways raise to raise your EMS before attempting to retake Earth, including a comprehensive single player play through.  Likewise if you suffered some blows to your EMS prior to assaulting Earth, MP is a great way to raise your score high enough for the final assault.

Keep in mind that the results of having a very low EMS rating can have distinct effects on the outcome ofthe game in teh same way having a high EMS can.

So essentially they wanted to encourage people to play MP, import saves from ME2 or buy and play the iOS game to raise their EMS. Doing a playthrough on ME3 without having done ME2, MP or iOS you wouldn't be able to unlock all the endings. However the end result was that ME2 imports also wasn't enough to get the "best" ending A score of 4000 EMS was initally required, 5000 if you didn't "save" Anderson from TIM. So this was either a misscalculation when they were crunching numbers, or intentional to encourage people to do MP and iOS. Which one it was I guess depends on how much trust you have in Bioware at this point. Though Preistly's vague "that's one way of putting it" certainly leaves me thinking it was the later case.

Whatever the reason I know one prelease statement that should have been altered.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 30 septembre 2012 - 10:53 .

[AlanC9]

Note that from the way a couple of Bio people responded to the EMS issue, there seemed to be genuine confusion on the staff about how the game actually played. It's the sort of idiocy I've found myself saying when the corporate higher-ups have done something without telling the rest of us about it.

[Verit]

Davik Kang wrote...
To be fair, that statement doesn't 100% prove that he's lying.  Extra work could include doing all possible sidequests and scanning all planets for resources.

Even when you everything right, it was still impossible. I tried, others tried. Ultimately datamining revealed there was simply no way of getting enough EMS with single player only without cheating. This is exactly what people were worried about before release, and exactly what Bioware told us would not happen. They repeadetly told us we had nothing too worry about, and still maintained their claims AFTER release when it become obvious that we couldn't get all the endings without MP.  I would not accuse them of lying if it wasn't so blatantly obvious, but the proof is there for everyone to read and Bioware simply remained silent when we confronted them with this. That's the only thing they can do, since they can't talk their way out of this.

Modifié par -Draikin-, 30 septembre 2012 - 11:06 .

[Verit]

Greylycantrope wrote...
Though Preistly's vague "that's one way of putting it" certainly leaves me thinking it was the later case.

That pretty much sealed the deal for me. Chris knew full well what was going on as he locked enough threads on the issue. And then he suddenly posts how it was working as intended and they changed it because it wasn't necessary anymore. His "that's one way of putting it" says everything about how Bioware works now and how they communicate with their fans. You obviously can't "fix" something if it was working as intended.

Greylycantrope wrote...
Whatever the reason I know one prelease statement that should have been altered.

I'm almost certain that the thread you linked to was created after release when players reported they couldn't get all the endings despite Bioware's earlier statements. It kept us in the dark for quite a while, thinking we missed something.

Modifié par -Draikin-, 30 septembre 2012 - 11:31 .