324 réponses à ce sujet

[drayfish]

Davik Kang wrote...

Whoa!  Your intentions are good, thanks for trying to keep the bad feeling down, but this could inadvertently start another flame war.

I know that the two members you quoted have been subjected to a lot of antagonism even within the last few days (not going to go into whether it was justified, please don't here!!) which might explain the apparent aggression of their posts, but really they're just trying to defend what they liked about the game.  And that can be hard on here because for every person who says the ending was good, 10 will come at out and call them fools, logical points or no.

I see your point - but I do wish that discussion could be undertaken without belittling others (on all sides), and without suggesting that if people like/dislike something they should shut up.

In that spirit: Good luck with the thread.  Honestly.  It is a vast understatement for me to say that I am not a fan of the endings, but I fully support anyone's right to have an opinion on the work, and to express it freely.  Indeed, I will be very keen to see what those who do support the ending express as their favourite elements. 

And I most certainly do not mean that as attempt to troll - it is a genuine desire. Many of the responses I've heard in support of the endings usually require some subscription to the philosophy of a specific conclusion: 'Synthesis is the only answer for the future'; 'Shepard is powerful enough to Control the Reapers'; 'I picked Destroy because those were my orders', etc.
 
In contrast to such specific responses, I am eager to hear someone explain why they found the whole tainted moral conundrum thing so satisfying, or why being forced to compromise to the Reapers was narratively profound.  (That may have sounded like I am trying to be sarcastic - truly I do not mean it so.)
 
The closest I've seen so far is a reviewer called Film Crit Hulk, who (rather condescendingly) read them as broad, broad metaphor, but he seemed to rather ignore the specifics of what is going on in each.  Then there are the IT supporters, but I think I have a handle on their perspective; or people speaking in vagaries about how 'war requires tough choices', none of which (to me at least), really justifies the strange 'win button' illogic, nor the seeming shift in the narrative's themes.
 
Again: no one has to explain anything to me - no one has to justify anything - everyone is welcome to their opinion and I'm not attacking in any way. I'm simply curious, because I honestly cannot come to terms with the message I see in those conclusions myself, and am genuinely interested to see how others did.

Modifié par drayfish, 01 octobre 2012 - 01:18 .

[CDR David Shepard]

Simply want to add my voice to those who support the game and ending as a whole.

I loved the whole game and the whole series...and I'm very grateful to bioware that they gave me the experience.

Everyone has their own opinion.

As much I would like to argue with those who took their hatred to the extreme because I feel for bioware...I honestly don't care about the people writing posts on these forums about how much they hate the ending and how it ruined the series for them.

None of their hate changes how I feel about the game in any way. So I'm sure that none of my love for the game will change how they feel.

Modifié par CDR David Shepard, 01 octobre 2012 - 01:21 .

[Cashmoney007]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

i will see this game finished, the moment the last dlc comes out - everything before that is speculation.

I have been saying the same thing.  

Modifié par Cashmoney007, 01 octobre 2012 - 01:51 .

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Funny how the ending haters insists on posting unfunny pictures and tired old memes, in every single thread where people say good things about the endings. What an interesting life that must be.

[Dubozz]

Funny how somebody trying to defend ripped off Deus Ex/Starcon/BSG ending. What an interesting life that must be.

Modifié par Dubozz, 01 octobre 2012 - 02:28 .

[Metalunatic]

Some are easy to please, I guess.

[Davik Kang]

drayfish wrote...
...

Yeah, I agree that the comments were unnecessarily aggressive, I was just saying that some people feel they need to be aggressive to counter the aggression thrown at them.  You can say it's "stooping to their level", but when you just argue rationally, people flame you, and then no-one backs you up, it can seem pretty fruitless to just stand there and take it.  Sometimes you gotta fight back, even though often you end up attacking the wrong people.

drayfish wrote...
...And I most certainly do not mean that as attempt to troll - it is a genuine desire. Many of the responses I've heard in support of the endings usually require some subscription to the philosophy of a specific conclusion: 'Synthesis is the only answer for the future'; 'Shepard is powerful enough to Control the Reapers'; 'I picked Destroy because those were my orders', etc.
 
In contrast to such specific responses, I am eager to hear someone explain why they found the whole tainted moral conundrum thing so satisfying, or why being forced to compromise to the Reapers was narratively profound.  (That may have sounded like I am trying to be sarcastic - truly I do not mean it so.)

I do actually think that the ending is amazing, regardless of how you interpret the ending (i.e. what is fact and what is fiction).  But a lot people won't agree with that, and I can see why.  I was just disappointed, when I signed up here, to see just how few agreed.

Also I don't subscribe to any of the choices being objectively the right answer.  I made my choice, and I will stand by it and defend it, but I don't think it needs to be the right choice to make the ending good.  And I can see many reasons why my choice might actually have been the wrong choice.  (This is actually another reason why I like it, but more on that another time).

I don't want to make a 10000 word post, but my short answer to the quoted question is: I found it satisfying because I wanted ME to be about choices,  If all you had to do was look at the colour, and go "blue choice - good, red choice - bad" (or even "blue choice - unrealistic, red choice - realistic") I would've found the whole thing to be a bit meaningless.  Basically lazy.  If being nice is always the right choice, what choice am I really making?  Just whether or not to be an ****?  That wouldn't have been fun (for me).

But I felt that the choices were really hard.  I know in reality, you can make any choices you like and still beat the Reapers and save the galaxy.  But when I was playing, the choices did matter.  It was hard to decide whether it was worth allowing the Rachni to live, or whether, by doing so, I was just unwilling to do the right thing because of the moral implications, and was in fact putting the galaxy at grave risk.  All the way through the game I felt the consequences of these choices bearing down on me, and I think that was because of how well-written and well-presented to ME universe was.

So, in brief, having final choices that weren't just Good/Evil, but were in fact probably the hardest decision you had to make in the whole trilogy, was immensely satisfying, even though it was sad, and even though you would never know if the choice was really the right one.

In a dumb metaphorical way, I guess you could say that (subconsciously mind you!!) I felt like the game was about choices, with some climactic choices (Geth, Collector Base) really hard; and that the final  choice was like the Big Boss fight, that is to say, the hardest choice of all.

[agentN7]

I liked the ending to an extent. The problem that it was too short. It didn't offer a satisfactory conclusion in terms of substantiating on the effect our choices had. I also think they could have added more emotion to it. That being said, there is a problem with the ammount of spoilt nerds who want fairytale endings. I have no problem whatsoever with Shepard passing, as it was the ultimate sacrifice. In the confusion of the endiing, i'm still not sure if my Shapard died or not. When we saw the N7 armour move at the end, was that part of the original ending, or was it thrown in to appease the brats who were outraged at the initial ending ? In the confusion i also picked separate endings. I think the whole  situation could have been handled better.

Modifié par agentN7, 01 octobre 2012 - 02:38 .

[Xilizhra]

Davik Kang wrote...

drayfish wrote...
This thread was meant to be a positive expression of appreciation for the endings, and without provocation it has been hijacked by spiteful mocking and a longing for censorship?

Is this really the level of discourse now?

I'm not sure Bioware would feel honoured by such sentiments from their 'fans'.

Whoa!  Your intentions are good, thanks for trying to keep the bad feeling down, but this could inadvertently start another flame war.

I know that the two members you quoted have been subjected to a lot of antagonism even within the last few days (not going to go into whether it was justified, please don't here!!) which might explain the apparent aggression of their posts, but really they're just trying to defend what they liked about the game.  And that can be hard on here because for every person who says the ending was good, 10 will come at out and call them fools, logical points or no.

No.... drayfish's post was completely legitimate and I remain on their side in this instance.

As for this thread. Unlike some others, I don't have a problem with using the Crucible to accomplish variable things. However, I'm not at all fond of Shepard's mandated death happening unless you committed genocide, and I'm fairly sure that removing one of those would not diminish what you liked about the endings.

[SNascimento]

I support the originals ME3's ending as an analogy for death.

[MegaSovereign]

agentN7 wrote...

I liked the ending to an extent. The problem that it was too short. It didn't offer a satisfactory conclusion in terms of substantiating on the effect our choices had. I also think they could have added more emotion to it. That being said, there is a problem with the ammount of spoilt nerds who want fairytale endings. I have no problem whatsoever with Shepard passing, as it was the ultimate sacrifice. In the confusion of the endiing, i'm still not sure if my Shapard died or not. When we saw the N7 armour move at the end, was that part of the original ending, or was it thrown in to appease the brats who were outraged at the initial ending ? In the confusion i also picked separate endings. I think the whole  situation could have been handled better.

The N7 breath scene was part of the original ending. The only thing the EC added to it was music.

[Mastone]

The ending was moronic, it is like Tolkien ending Lord of the Rings by blowing up middle earth by meteor shower or some action caused by the valar ( google Lotr Valar) , disregarding each and everything each character has done until that point... not even getting to see a result because of combined effort just colored confetti.

But you can like it just don't expect everyone to do so

[GeneralBacon339]

I was hurt  by the launch endings (wasn't sure if i'd ever be able to play it again)

the extended cut endings..... were..... Good!  Really good!

Tho over the course of several hundred hours (the higher digits 800-900hrs) of play between all three games, i guess you could say i made an emotional connect to my ultimate inspiring hero.

I Still hate the endings because  my hero dies!

Other then that.... (and having to take a substanial break inbetween trilogy play throughs) its still the greatest RPG ever created!

 i still hate the fact that my hero dies....(did i mention that yet?)

[Skullheart]

ME endings before EC: 2/10
ME endings after EC: 2.1/10

Is the same sh¡t, just that it takes longer.

[agentN7]

MegaSovereign wrote...

agentN7 wrote...

I liked the ending to an extent. The problem that it was too short. It didn't offer a satisfactory conclusion in terms of substantiating on the effect our choices had. I also think they could have added more emotion to it. That being said, there is a problem with the ammount of spoilt nerds who want fairytale endings. I have no problem whatsoever with Shepard passing, as it was the ultimate sacrifice. In the confusion of the endiing, i'm still not sure if my Shapard died or not. When we saw the N7 armour move at the end, was that part of the original ending, or was it thrown in to appease the brats who were outraged at the initial ending ? In the confusion i also picked separate endings. I think the whole  situation could have been handled better.

The N7 breath scene was part of the original ending. The only thing the EC added to it was music.

Thanks. I originally chose control, as being a bit of a simpleton, much of the ending went over my head. After the extended cut, i chose destroy. Tell me something, how many times have you played the respective M.E titles ? you see, i'm one of these stubborn Shepards who sticks to my guns, even when i made the wrong decisions. I would have liked to have kept Jack and Ashley in my team, but they were both goners, Ash in 1, and Jack went because i didn't do enough work on the ship. Do you believe in going back and chosing alternative choices via new play throughs ?

Modifié par agentN7, 01 octobre 2012 - 02:50 .

[agentN7]

GeneralBacon339 wrote...

I was hurt  by the launch endings (wasn't sure if i'd ever be able to play it again)

the extended cut endings..... were..... Good!  Really good!

Tho over the course of several hundred hours (the higher digits 800-900hrs) of play between all three games, i guess you could say i made an emotional connect to my ultimate inspiring hero.

I Still hate the endings because  my hero dies!

Other then that.... (and having to take a substanial break inbetween trilogy play throughs) its still the greatest RPG ever created!

 i still hate the fact that my hero dies....(did i mention that yet?)

You Shepard died you say. Do you hate the fact he died, or the fact you made the wrong decision ?

[MegaSovereign]

agentN7 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

agentN7 wrote...

I liked the ending to an extent. The problem that it was too short. It didn't offer a satisfactory conclusion in terms of substantiating on the effect our choices had. I also think they could have added more emotion to it. That being said, there is a problem with the ammount of spoilt nerds who want fairytale endings. I have no problem whatsoever with Shepard passing, as it was the ultimate sacrifice. In the confusion of the endiing, i'm still not sure if my Shapard died or not. When we saw the N7 armour move at the end, was that part of the original ending, or was it thrown in to appease the brats who were outraged at the initial ending ? In the confusion i also picked separate endings. I think the whole  situation could have been handled better.

The N7 breath scene was part of the original ending. The only thing the EC added to it was music.

Thanks. I originally chose control, as being a bit of a simpleton, much of the ending went over my head. After the extended cut, i chose destroy. Tell me something, how many times have you played the respective M.E titles ? you see, i'm one of these stubborn Shepards who sticks to my guns, even when i made the wrong decisions. I would have liked to have kept Jack and Ashley in my team, but they were both goners, Ash in 1, and Jack went because i didn't do enough work on the ship. Do you believe in going back and chosing alternative choices via new play throughs ?

I'm a completionist so whenever I screw up I always go back and reload my saves.

As for what my alignment preference is (Paragon vs Renegade), I tend to do different playthroughs with different decisions. I even do different romances just to mix things up every once and a while.

[ElSuperGecko]

I agree with the premise of this thread. The endings of the game - and the decision you have to make on the Crucible - makes you think about the events you've witnessed, the conversations you've had, the battles you've thought and the knowledge you've gleaned throughout not just Mass Effect 3, but the entire Mass Effect series.

The endings of the game promote debate and speculation, and I like that.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

The endings were fine. Not the best ending I've ever seen, but certainly not the worst either. ME3 remains one of my favorite games, the endings are just one small part of the overall experience. I got to destroy the Reapers, which is what I set out to do, so I'm satisfied.

[dreman9999]

Mastone wrote...

The ending was moronic, it is like Tolkien ending Lord of the Rings by blowing up middle earth by meteor shower or some action caused by the valar ( google Lotr Valar) , disregarding each and everything each character has done until that point... not even getting to see a result because of combined effort just colored confetti.

But you can like it just don't expect everyone to do so

That's nothin glike the new ec endings. If yiou used the old ending to state the new ending is bad, then that mean you have no point.

From what we see in the ending, everyone is rebuild and the galexy has a hopeful future.

[dreman9999]

Skullheart wrote...

ME endings before EC: 2/10
ME endings after EC: 2.1/10

Is the same sh¡t, just that it takes longer.

How are they the same?

[Jawsomebob]

Harby talked **** to me for an entire game and Bioware wouldn't let me fight him. I never got to meet the illusive man for an entire game while he was my boss and then he turned out to be a dick and bioware wouldnt let me fight him either. Instead they gave me Kai Lang...enough said....

Proenders you may be able to defend the ending....but can you defend Kai Lang?

[MegaSovereign]

Jawsomebob wrote...

Harby talked **** to me for an entire game and Bioware wouldn't let me fight him. I never got to meet the illusive man for an entire game while he was my boss and then he turned out to be a dick and bioware wouldnt let me fight him either. Instead they gave me Kai Lang...enough said....

Proenders you may be able to defend the ending....but can you defend Kai Lang?

TIM turned out to be a dick? Shocking!

[Obadiah]

I've posted elsewhere about my issues with the ME3, but as a binary like/dislike opinion I liked the ending.

It was a civilization defining gut-wrenching choice forced on us by an emotionless uncaring AI god, and an appropriate solution to a seemingly unbeatable foe. The ramifications were suitably extensive and far reaching, but the Reaper cycle was ended... at least for 10000 years.

Plus, I like the idea that Shepard, who has been walking around for 3 games passing judgement on every other race's solution, is now suddenly faced with his own morally dubious action to win against an impossibly powerful enemy - how badly does Shepard (or the galaxy) want to Destroy the reapers?