324 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

Gravbh wrote...

Not going to get into any big debate or more details but I will say this. I've teared up over a game 3 times.

1) Metal Gear Solid 3 ending when Eva reveals the Boss' true motives and the extent of her sacrifice.
2) Alistair's eulogy at the warden's funeral in DA:O with the sacrifice ending.
3) Joker's reaction to Garrus saying they had to leave Shepard behind in the EC.

2 of them are Bioware games. Just sayin'

No Mordin death? You cold-blooded, son.

Anyway, my list of times a game made me tear up is probably twice as long, sadly.

1. Metal Gear Solid: Sniper Wolf's death.
2. Chrono Cross: orphanage scene.
3. MGS3 ending, twice.
4. Final Fantasy XI: end of the Wings of the Goddess expansion.
5. Shadow Hearts: Covenant: Trying to resurrect Alice.
6. ME3: Mordin got me the most out of any of these.
7. ME3 endings when the flashbacks starting popping up as you shot the tube.
8. Persona 3, The Answer.
9. Drakengard 2, Caim and Angelus.

Yeah, I'm a baby SO WHAT.

[iTallaNT]

CronoDragoon wrote...

iTallaNT wrote...

lol well that little speal about the trap was ment to be somewhat sarcastic, that's just the sort of vibe that I commically got after thinking about just how impractical that ending was. xD (and your right HP deffinitly is more realistic in that reguard)

After choosing the synthesis option I went with destroy because I really REALLY wanted to see those reapers burn, not to mention it was a common theme throughout the 3 games with all the speaches about killing the reapers and getting recenge for what they put you/the galaxy through. However the genocide of the geth and the murdur of EDI in a non-sensical way made that ending a no go for me as well. ;3; In the end I ended up going with controle, since it spaired everyone, was the ultimate sacrifice on shepards part, and ensured that the reapers would never again turn on organics. It still made me mad that I couldn't just downright kill the bastards, but hey if you can't kill them you might as well make them your bi*ches.

Heh, well, in some ways I think it would have been an intriguing plot twist if the Crucible was indeed a trap. But since I believe conventional victory would have been BS, that probably would have meant a Refuse ending all around!

And I agree that the Reapers dying would have either been justice for the destroyed races or giving whatever those races have been turned into peace. They deserved better than the monstrosities they became.

Control to me is the most intellectually appealing ending, in large part because of the fourth Dune book in which a similar scenario takes place. What would a galaxy look like with a God Emperor? How would it evolve? How would it be allowed to evolve? What forms would rebellion take?

I still choose Destroy.

Well logically speaking it is the most sound option since it ends the threat without damaging anything else, however it does bring up some eerie future senarios. Especially with that whole speech about becoming the most powerful force in the galaxy that will destroy the few that threaten the many. It doesn't leave much room for democracy, and it adds an almost calus and synical, clearly robotic, way of thinking about the galaxy. It's like the humanity in shepard, the part that was willing to give the smaller groups, like the geth and rachni, a chance to live and prove themselves worthy of salvation is dead. Though I will say that this is a little bit padded by the ending of the speech which talks about watching over the ones shep loved and always remembering those who gave their lives for the future. It leaves a small connection to the person that shepard once was, and that's comforting. But I don't want to think about how things will be once those remaining few companions pass away, and there is nothing left to rekindle those fealings of affection for organics.

Modifié par iTallaNT, 03 octobre 2012 - 03:03 .

[CronoDragoon]

iTallaNT wrote...

Well logically speaking it is the most sound option since it ends the threat without damaging anything else, however it does bring up some eerie future senarios. Especially with that whole speech about becoming the most powerful force in the galaxy that will destroy the few that threaten the many. It doesn't leave much room for democracy, and it adds an almost calus and synical, clearly robotic, way of thinking about the galaxy. It's like the humanity in shepard, the part that was willing to give the smaller groups, like the geth and rachni, a chance to live and prove themselves worthy of salvation is dead. Though I will say that this is a little bit padded by the ending of the speech which talks about watching over the ones shep loved and always remembering those who gave their lives for the future. It leaves a small connection to the person that shepard once was, and that's comforting. But I don't want to think about how things will be once those remaining few companions pass away, and there is nothing left to rekindle those fealings of affection for organics.

Not to mention that if you believe, as I do, that the new Shepard is the same type of intelligence as the Catalyst, then you have to wonder if and when this new Shepard will misinterpret human Shepard's values and do something horrible, the same way that the Catalyst, though following his strict programming, misinterpreted the spirit of his programming and did something horrible.

[iTallaNT]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Indoctrination would have been terrific and one of the greatest endings of all time....had it been implemented from the start. I just don't think it fits with the game as currently constructed.

Well they actually did include it in the ending a bit due to the scene with The Illusive Man. If you look back at what organics feel when being indoctrinated, which is clearly stated in the 1st game's codex, then Shepard was in fact being indoctrinated.
www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par iTallaNT, 03 octobre 2012 - 03:11 .

[CronoDragoon]

iTallaNT wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Indoctrination would have been terrific and one of the greatest endings of all time....had it been implemented from the start. I just don't think it fits with the game as currently constructed.

Well they actually did include it in the ending a bit due to the scene with The Illusive Man. If you look back at what organics feel when being indoctrinated, which is clearly stated in the 1st game's codex, then Shepard was in fact being indoctrinated.

I know, but I mean I would have wanted the entire Indoc ending included from the start, as part of the game.

[iTallaNT]

CronoDragoon wrote...

iTallaNT wrote...

Well logically speaking it is the most sound option since it ends the threat without damaging anything else, however it does bring up some eerie future senarios. Especially with that whole speech about becoming the most powerful force in the galaxy that will destroy the few that threaten the many. It doesn't leave much room for democracy, and it adds an almost calus and synical, clearly robotic, way of thinking about the galaxy. It's like the humanity in shepard, the part that was willing to give the smaller groups, like the geth and rachni, a chance to live and prove themselves worthy of salvation is dead. Though I will say that this is a little bit padded by the ending of the speech which talks about watching over the ones shep loved and always remembering those who gave their lives for the future. It leaves a small connection to the person that shepard once was, and that's comforting. But I don't want to think about how things will be once those remaining few companions pass away, and there is nothing left to rekindle those fealings of affection for organics.

Not to mention that if you believe, as I do, that the new Shepard is the same type of intelligence as the Catalyst, then you have to wonder if and when this new Shepard will misinterpret human Shepard's values and do something horrible, the same way that the Catalyst, though following his strict programming, misinterpreted the spirit of his programming and did something horrible.

Exactly.... while it's less likely to occure while shepard still has bonds with the existing lifeforms, there's nothing to say it wont happen once those little reminders of the person shepard was are severed. *sigh* somtimes I just think it's easier to let them go down fighting and let the next cycle prevail. But my shepard would hate me for it if I chose that route lol.

[iTallaNT]

CronoDragoon wrote...

iTallaNT wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Indoctrination would have been terrific and one of the greatest endings of all time....had it been implemented from the start. I just don't think it fits with the game as currently constructed.

Well they actually did include it in the ending a bit due to the scene with The Illusive Man. If you look back at what organics feel when being indoctrinated, which is clearly stated in the 1st game's codex, then Shepard was in fact being indoctrinated.

I know, but I mean I would have wanted the entire Indoc ending included from the start, as part of the game.

Well some people went so far as to say that that could indeed be the case. That the whole thing actually was indoctrination. The kid was used to get shep to surrender his/her mind, in reality he never existed. The opening sequence with the kid was a figment of Shepards imagination due to the reapers indoctrination and that the whole game was the process of being indoctrinated. I'm not saying that this theory is correct but it does open up a new kind of perspective for the endings. It creates the idea that maybe there really was no way to win, just a way to snap out of it and go down fighting so the next cycle could have a chance. *shruggs*

Modifié par iTallaNT, 03 octobre 2012 - 03:25 .

[CronoDragoon]

iTallaNT wrote...

Well some people went so far as to say that that could indeed be the case. That the whole thing actually was indoctrination. The kid was used to get shep to surrender his/her mind, in reality he never existed. The opening sequence with the kid was a figment of Shepards imagination due to the reapers indoctrination and that the whole game was the process of being indoctrinated. I'm not saying that this theory is correct but it does open up a new kind of perspective for the endings. It creates the idea that maybe there really was no way to win, just a way to snap out of it and go down fighting so the next cycle could have a chance. *shruggs*

Obviously they are free to interpet things that way, but Final Hours told us that the part of the ending that dealt with Indoctrination was scrapped, so I don't think they have much solid ground to stand on. In other words, stuff in the game that points to Indoctrination seems little more to me than remnants of what BW once had planned.

[dorktainian]

who cares anymore?

[CmdrShep80]

dorktainian wrote...

who cares anymore?

Probably those of us who love the original endings and the theories it sprouted

[Knightly_BW]

I finally finished my EC Destroy run with my main. I was okay with the original endings but with EC it is sweeter now. Krogan babies, Zaeed, Shep/Kaidan last farewell, knowing everything is free of Reaper threat.

How ever still one thing is bugging me. Where the hell Shepard wakes?

[CmdrShep80]

Asperius wrote...

I finally finished my EC Destroy run with my main. I was okay with the original endings but with EC it is sweeter now. Krogan babies, Zaeed, Shep/Kaidan last farewell, knowing everything is free of Reaper threat.

How ever still one thing is bugging me. Where the hell Shepard wakes?

Good question. A lot of us assume he wakes near where he was transported via the beam. Though something to ask is why does the Catalyst save him in the first place?  There was no escape from the destructing citadel scene so likely he was transported somewhere. And what reason does the catalyst save him for?  

By the way am I right that the place Shepard makes the choice is the place where the crucible docks with the citadel. Was watching the original endings again yesterday and just noticed that. 

[Engared]

No it wasn't. It was utter garbage.

/no support.

[Hexley UK]

0/10

Also ending is still worse than Herpes.

[Engared]

Hexley UK wrote...

0/10

Also ending is still worse than Herpes.

Its worse than cancer but only slightly better than AIDs in my book.

[CDR David Shepard]

Engared wrote...

No it wasn't. It was utter garbage.

/no support.

Hexley UK wrote...

0/10

Also ending is still worse than Herpes.

Engared wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

0/10

Also ending is still worse than Herpes.

Its worse than cancer but only slightly better than AIDs in my book.

You are the worst kind of people.

If you don't like it...that's fine...it's your opinion.

Let this be a support thread.

If you don't support it...then don't post here.

Modifié par CDR David Shepard, 03 octobre 2012 - 02:59 .

[Humakt83]

Mass Effect 3 ending was great. Emotional, mysterious and full of hidden meanings.

Modifié par Humakt83, 03 octobre 2012 - 03:04 .

[macrocarl]

yup, I loved the game pre and post EC. I appreciate all of it and there are positive threads but they get buried because unfortunately the 'anti-enders' are still very mad.

[Davik Kang]

CronoDragoon wrote...
I have trouble assembling a similar narrative for Destroy that allows me to make sense of the journey. I don't need to be preached to, but I do need that third level, that stuff of which you can write essays; something which I feel Destroy lacks because of the inherent contradiction in the motivation behind choosing it and what actually happens.

Obviously, I am not saying you need to agree with the above interpretations of Control and Synthesis. I only want to show that these interpretations exist in a way I believe they do not in Destroy. But please, if someone would like to make sense of Destroy for me, I want to be at peace with it.

You made some great points about Control and Synthesis.  I'll have a go at giving a decent position for Destroy.  

When I was watching the Star Chamber scene, I was taking the Kid's suggestions at face value.  The genius bit was when Shepard says "So the Illusive Man was right all along."  I was stunned, and was thinking, "Huh... really?  Damn..."

And I listened to the rationale behind Control and Synthesis given by the StarKid.  Shepard had said TIM was right, so I guess it's true... right?  But there was something uncomfortable about the scenarios that StarKid was proposing.  I thought about it for a while... the problem is that the Kid is asking to you become a God.  Or make the decisions of a God.  Asking you to control the Reapers.  Or re-engineer all sentient life.

And I thought about Destroy, and I thought about TIM, and that's when it hit me... that the Kid's trying to indoctrinate me.  And that even if I'm wrong about that, I'd rather proceed to Destroy the Reapers, than risk the consequences of choosing the other options if indoctrination is happening.  Because, in the end, Shepard is a soldier.  Not a politician, and not a God.  Just a soldier.  Doing the best she can to help the Alliance win and beat the Reapers.

That's really what I felt the theme of ME was, and the theme that fits Destroy.  But that's not to say that Control or Synthesis are wrong - if you decide that Shepard is like a "chosen one" leading the galaxy into a new era of hope, then you would decide that the Kid is not indoctrinating you at all, and in this case, Con / Syn are clearly preferable options.

CronoDragoon wrote...
Indoctrination would have been terrific and one of the greatest endings of all time....had it been implemented from the start. I just don't think it fits with the game as currently constructed.

I have to disagree.  Indoctrination attempts were present right through ME2, maybe even before.  Harbinger's voice in ME2 is an attempt at indoctrination, trying to scare her into accepting the inevitable.  It's fairly feeble after the events of ME1&2, and because of Shepard's personality; but when Reapers were just a myth, this kind of indoctrination would be really effective, as it was on Saren.  To suddenly be confronted with a Reaper, a mythical space Devil form the past, explaining that the rumours were true and that civilisations would be wiped out one by one by the Reapers as had happened so many times before.

And in ME3, it is foreshadowed by the dreams.  I'm not going to specualte on whether the kid at the start is really there or not.  It's just that, the implication of indoctrination at the end is strongly hinted at by two things:

- the presence of TIM on the Citadel, arguing that he's not indoctrinated, even though he believes the Reapers can be controlled; and
- the resemblance of the StarKid to the ghost in your dreams.

IMO the final sequence in the Decision Chamber is a hallucination, but all (or most) stuff before that is not.  I think the final choices are actually happening.  But the point about indoctrination here, is that the ending is meant to involve the idea of indoctrination, even if you don't think that the Kid is actually trying to indoctrinate you.  In other words, I think that one of the things you have to decide in that decision chamber is whether or not you are being indoctrinated.  That is open to interpretation.   But IMO it is pretty clear that you are at least meant to consider that you might be the victim of an indoctrination attempt, even if you didn't see it on your first playthrough.  Doesn't mean that it is an indoctrination attempt.  You have to decide.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 03 octobre 2012 - 04:23 .

[Davik Kang]

dorktainian wrote...
who cares anymore?

I do because I only finished ME3 last week, so for me this is all fresh.

[macrocarl]

Engared wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

0/10

Also ending is still worse than Herpes.

Its worse than cancer but only slightly better than AIDs in my book.

As a person who's lived through 3 major cancer battles I would ask you to at least knock off saying foolish things like this. Please. Thank you.

[Engared]

macrocarl wrote...

Engared wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

0/10

Also ending is still worse than Herpes.

Its worse than cancer but only slightly better than AIDs in my book.

As a person who's lived through 3 major cancer battles I would ask you to at least knock off saying foolish things like this. Please. Thank you.

I didn't say it was much worse than cancer. its in the same ballpark of utter crumminest.

Sorry to hear that though. But cancer is one of the worst diseases you can get; Mass Effect 3's ending was the cancer of endings. Putting things in relativity.

Modifié par Engared, 03 octobre 2012 - 03:12 .

[macrocarl]

@ Davik Kang 'IMO the final sequence in the Decision Chamber is a hallucination, but all (or most) stuff before that is not. I think the final choices are actually happening. But the point about indoctrination here, is that the ending is meant to involve the idea of indoctrination, even if you don't think that the Kid is actually trying to belive you. In other words, I think that one of the things you have to decide in that decision chamber is whether or not you are being indoctrinated. That is open to interpretation. But IMO it is pretty clear that you are at least meant to consider that you might be the victim of an indoctrination attempt, even if you didn't see it on your first playthrough. Doesn't mean that it is an indoctrination attempt. You have to decide.'

I agree with this and came to the same conclusion. It's refreshing to see someone new on the forum who's excited about thinking about the ending. Hey and I am about halfway through a new play through (1st one was Paragon, everyone survived from Me to ME3) and this is my Renegade some folks died play through and I got to say, it feels very different from the 1st one. Enjoy!

[Davik Kang]

macrocarl wrote...
I agree with this and came to the same conclusion. It's refreshing to see someone new on the forum who's excited about thinking about the ending. Hey and I am about halfway through a new play through (1st one was Paragon, everyone survived from Me to ME3) and this is my Renegade some folks died play through and I got to say, it feels very different from the 1st one. Enjoy!

Thanks very much.  My playthrough was a little different because I didn't play Para or Rene; I went with the mentality that I'd have to make the best choice I could under the circumstances.  So the decision chamber didn't conflict with my character's personality like it may have for many other players.  

Nonetheless, the big decisions often went in the Paragon direction.  But I have started a new playthrough now, this time as a much more selfish, arrogant Shepard.  Most likely gonna be more Renegade-like but also gonna try to maximise romance options.  Basically gonna get everything that this Shepard wants this time, other goals come second.

[Marauder_Pilot]

Don't get too worked-up over what seems like a mountain of ****s complaining about the endings. If there's one thing the internet collectively loves, it's getting all bent out of shape over stupid little ****.

I liked the endings. Didn't love them, really wanted a way to save both Shepard and synthetics, but, hey, hard choices build character.

Sadly, there are small, out-of-shape. socially inept legions of people ready to e-blast your opinions for not being the same as their opinions (Which, since theirs contain more vitriol, are clearly correct).