530 réponses à ce sujet

[Realmzmaster]

In the human noble origin Nan was not always the cook, but was the human noble's nanny. So Nan is someone who could be very dear to the human noble.

Yes she can come off as racist (which the developers intended), but she far more of an ornery old woman who has no intention of changing and treats everyone with disdain and affection at the same time even the dog (who is the bane of her existence).

I guess the writer's intention was to show that even the poorer humans regard the elves as second class. This is the environment that the human noble grew up. It is to show that he/she is privileged.
It does not mean that the human noble is conscious racist. (You certainly roleplay it that way.), but that he/she does not know or been taught any better.

The human noble may think that his parents are being benevolent in giving elves jobs or does not care one way or the other. Human noble may see all servants in the same light. They are servants, just like the guards are servants who they pay. Example the human noble comes across guards playing cards while on duty. The guards are scared because the human noble could report it back to his father.
The dwarf noble could be called racist in regards to the casteless. He is hating his/her own race. Kirkwallers look down on Fereldens. Orliasians look down on all of them. The dwarf commoner has the PC as one of the casteless and the other caste dwarfs treat him with disdain. Only becoming a Grey Warden allows him/her any hint of respectability.

I like all of the origins. Each shows a different perspective of Thedas's culture. The problem is that we are looking at the game and its medieval environment through our more modern conceptions and ideals. So certain actions look and are racist in our (modern time) eyes, but would not be considered that way in the times depicted by a majority of the populace..

[Melca36]

Chaoswind wrote...

Because the Couslands are the best family in Felderen nobility.

That is why their lost is so tragic and why the Human Noble is the best Origin... you are doing everything for Feleren (if you take the right dialog) or for supreme revenge.

People seem to forget that the Couslands date back to Flemeth's legend before she became what she is.

[Fiacre]

Melca36 wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

Because the Couslands are the best family in Felderen nobility.

That is why their lost is so tragic and why the Human Noble is the best Origin... you are doing everything for Feleren (if you take the right dialog) or for supreme revenge.

People seem to forget that the Couslands date back to Flemeth's legend before she became what she is.

I'm not sure how that has to do with anything in this thread ?

Also, FlemethxSarim ftw.

[Shadow Fox]

LPPrince wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Amalur did this very well.  You got to decide everything about why your character was dead and how he ended up on that corpse wagon.

Well yeah, but towards the end of the game you find out what ACTUALLY happened.

The game doesn't tell you specifically how your character died, but the game DOES tell you what your character was doing(or trying to do), the game tells you that your character failed to do it, and that that was when your character died.

It basically kept things up to your imagination for the vast majority of the game before revealing what really happened.

Yeah my Dark Elf kind of pissed on her races streotypes*she was kind,trustful and someone you could trust and helpfull*

Spoiler

but the game pretty much spells out that your character was far from a nice person before dying and being reborn at the end.which I was cool with because even  as a virtous character I could roleplay that she had a personal crisis upon finding out before disavowing her old life as she was essentially a new person.

...*wants Amalur 2*

[ligernull]

cindercatz wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

I wouldn't be opposed to race selection without the origins. Assuming, for a moment, that the PC is an inquisitor, couldn't the story being with "You are an inquisitor" and let you simply come up with your own motivations and reasons for getting there?

Hope not. That's essentially the set-up for DA2 (mostly blank slate), same as we had for KoTOR, Jade Empire, etc. Those games were great, but DA:O is much better for me, primarily because of the origins and how they change the perspective for replay. Origins are a defining feature for Dragon Age, one of the few things it's done that I can think of that another game series hasn't done better. They're essential to what I think of and want out of Dragon Age, and I'm personally pretty tired of blank slate.

^THIS.

That's what I loved so much about multiple origin stories. I found it fascinating that my PC's actual personality seemed to change depending on her race and background.

For example, my City Elf was very demure and polite when speaking to those in authority, and she would never feel comfortable inviting an LI to her tent. She comes from a conservative community and recently put her alienage in danger when she got red on some humans (however justifiably). So she's careful to mind her Ps and Qs once she becomes a Warden.

My Human Noble, on the other hand, is used to getting her way and is therefore sassier and more....free with her affections:) I didn't plan it, it just happened organically .

The City Elf is my favorite because it was my first, but I like all  the origins. Each one I played gave me a broader perpective on life in Ferelden.

Modifié par ligernull, 02 octobre 2012 - 12:17 .

[KiwiQuiche]

'Cause humans are speshul flowers.

[Melca36]

Fiacre wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

Because the Couslands are the best family in Felderen nobility.

That is why their lost is so tragic and why the Human Noble is the best Origin... you are doing everything for Feleren (if you take the right dialog) or for supreme revenge.

People seem to forget that the Couslands date back to Flemeth's legend before she became what she is.

I'm not sure how that has to do with anything in this thread ?

Also, FlemethxSarim ftw.

Whatever.  I just get sick of the human bashing.  Every race has their pros and cons.

[Shadow Fox]

Plaintiff wrote...

I, on the other hand, am sick to the teeth of elves and dwarves in general. I would be content to see them erased from the fantasy genre altogether. We've been ripping off Tolkien for over half a century now, enough is enough.

I like playing human. I like to create a character who's as like me as possible.

*guy says sick of elves and  wants them eradicated yet has elf archer avatar*

DOES NOT COMPUTE:pinched:


Oh and stay away from my pointy eared nymphs*waves Murder Knife threatenly*

[DarkDragon777]

FaWa wrote...

Why are we forced to play as the most boring race?

What do you mean? We aren't forced to play as Elves.

[Shadow Fox]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

FaWa wrote...

Why are we forced to play as the most boring race?

What do you mean? We aren't forced to play as Elves.

them's fighting words bro:bandit:*equips Cailan's armor,Maric's Blade and Starfang* 

[Sylvianus]

Faerunner wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

No, no no. You guys are missing the point.

The writers intended Nan to be racist, and intended for your Cousland to either not notice or not care about Nan's racism - in order to deliberately show how priviledged you were as a human and how ridiculously mistreated and downtrodden the elves are (notice how they act like scared kids instead of confident adults? That's city elves). The same thing was done when you were introduced to your tutor, to show that you were educated. And introduced to other nobles, to show that you were priviledged. It was beautifully done.

Xilizhra was just saying that the fact that you're not able to say "Hey, quit being mean to those elves." put a bad taste in her mouth. And it was meant to. If she decided she didn't like being a Cousland after that, that's completely her business. If it didn't bother you (like it didn't bother me), then great. But don't jump down her throat for having different preferences than yours.

And if you have any doubts about Nan's treatment of the elves, I'd just start a Cousland character, save, and try all options in the kitchen. It'll take about five minutes to be sure.

Thank you for this post. I think this sums this issue up very nicely.

Not really.

MisterJB wrote...

What exactly is so racist about Old Nan? Sure, she seemed a bit agressive towards those servants but not only did they felt confortable enough to insult her right back, she also doesn't refrain from yelling at one of the nobles of the household.

Thank you.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 02 octobre 2012 - 02:05 .

[SafetyShattered]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

FaWa wrote...

Why are we forced to play as the most boring race?

What do you mean? We aren't forced to play as Elves.

OOOOOHHHHHH! BURN!

Modifié par Shadowfang12, 02 octobre 2012 - 02:06 .

[Vandicus]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

FaWa wrote...

Why are we forced to play as the most boring race?

What do you mean? We aren't forced to play as Elves.

them's fighting words bro:bandit:*equips Cailan's armor,Maric's Blade and Starfang* 

He's a batarian. Don't take any of their racial comments too seriously, otherwise you'll wind up destroying their Alpha relay or something. 

[deuce985]

I understand Bioware's reasoning behind it.

Honestly though, it just seems really awkward we can't play as other races in DA2. It's a fantasy game. A big part of fantasy is your imagination. Playing as those races really helps flesh the world/imagination out more...

[Heimdall]

Humans aren't boring.

That being said, there are few games that don't let one play as a human and many that only let one play as a human. So, when the opportunity arises, I tend to play non-human.

[upsettingshorts]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

FaWa wrote...

Why are we forced to play as the most boring race?

What do you mean? We aren't forced to play as Elves.

[Plaintiff]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I, on the other hand, am sick to the teeth of elves and dwarves in general. I would be content to see them erased from the fantasy genre altogether. We've been ripping off Tolkien for over half a century now, enough is enough.

I like playing human. I like to create a character who's as like me as possible.

*guy says sick of elves and  wants them eradicated yet has elf archer avatar*

DOES NOT COMPUTE:pinched:


Oh and stay away from my pointy eared nymphs*waves Murder Knife threatenly*

If I knew how to put a custom image or .gif in my profile picture, I would. I don't really like any of the standard options, but since I can't get a glowing Anders, or a baby panda, or Deadpool, I'll stick with Sendis.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 02 octobre 2012 - 02:22 .

[Shadow Fox]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

FaWa wrote...

Why are we forced to play as the most boring race?

What do you mean? We aren't forced to play as Elves.

...*activates Berserk and Aura of Pain*

[Dave of Canada]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

FaWa wrote...

Why are we forced to play as the most boring race?

What do you mean? We aren't forced to play as Elves.

You have earned the rights to my firstborn.

[Sibu]

Hey, i'm not boring! My mom tells me that every day!

[DPSSOC]

Faerunner wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

What exactly is so racist about Old Nan? Sure, she seemed a bit agressive towards those servants but not only did they felt confortable enough to insult her right back, she also doesn't refrain from yelling at one of the nobles of the household.

Thank you.

She doesn't threaten human nobles with bodily harm, nor does she try to force any human staff to try to restrain a potentially dangerous animal that she knows can and will bite an arm off anyone but its master. And yes, the elves looked SOOO comfortable cowering and hunkered over in terror, unable to outright tell her "no" or walk away to her demands to restrain said dog. I'm sure the elves stick around because they like being scolded, threatened, over-worked and forced put in physically harmful situations on a regular basis, not because their socio/economic position prevents them from finding a better job elsewhere. 

Having worked in many a modern kitchen that's how anybody not a cook get's treated.  Verbal and physical abuse and a whole lot of crap work.  She doesn't force any human staff to restrain the dog because there are no such staff present; it's Nan, the two elves, and the dog.  I hope you can see why the senior is not leaping in to action to tackle the war dog.  Also you'll note neither of the elves made so much as a move towards the dog despite Nan's demands.  As for not threatening nobles with bodily harm I'd rather hope that didn't require explanation.

On topic I really don't find humans all that boring.  Or perhaps more accurately I don't find them any more boring than the other races.  When I look closely none of the races really have anything to them.  They all come across as kind of one note. 

[ShimmeringDjinn]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

AshenSugar wrote...

Whaaaaaaaat?
 
You are jesting mefinks! How can anyone not like the Human Noble origin?
 
... ok, you're entitled to your opinion, but for me at least the Human Noble was the most compelling of all the Origin stories. It was a tale of betrayal and revenge.
 .

It was a tale about a rich and famous guy/gal who lost everything and in the end became more RICH and FAMOUS! Not to mention all the nobles suck up to the human noble and I really cannot stand any noble in Thedas.

Completely agree.
Personally, I despise the HN Origin and found nothing remotely 'compelling' about it.