530 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Icinix wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

It makes ZERO sense to say that a dwarf, elf, and human would need different voice actors.

None.

Varric's VA would have fit any of those. So would Fenris'. And Aveline's. And Athenril's.

I'm rarely so blunt about stuff, but seriously, that is one of the silliest arguments I've ever read on the forums. Every VA is human in real life, though they voice elves, dwarves, and kossith too.

Whoa, relax their floss.

It was one reason among many - not the be all and end all.

Generally, and I use that term very generally, elves are higher pitched and talk faster, dwarves are deeper and more gruff, kossith are much slower and more deliberate in their voice.

Its not a be all and end all for sure - but I think its definitely something that would be looked at as something to be considered - since that one voice would be used across multiple races - it would have to straddle a pretty fine line.

yeah, I really should have let you know that I didn't intend that with any animosity towards you --- I've seen that argument a lot, and it always frustrates and baffles me. Such a silly reason to keep out (what I feel is) the coolest part of the franchise.

Excellent! I don't like firing people up....well...there are a few people on here that are fun to get going....but they're mostly in the ME3 section.

[FINE HERE]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

You can't club Nan over the head with a ladle and free her elf servants?  Beats me.

All racism aside, an option to clobber the elderly would certainly liven up my playthroughs. Make it happen, Bioware.

What about pushing cripples down stairs?

Wait!

Pregnant cripples.

Carrying puppies in bows?

[Plaintiff]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

You can't club Nan over the head with a ladle and free her elf servants?  Beats me.

All racism aside, an option to clobber the elderly would certainly liven up my playthroughs. Make it happen, Bioware.

What about pushing cripples down stairs?

Wait!

Pregnant cripples.

Yes!

And we should be able to slap much-needed food out of the hands of orphans as we pass them in the street.

[brushyourteeth]

Icinix wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Whoa, relax their floss.

*snip*

yeah, I really should have let you know that I didn't intend that with any animosity towards you --- I've seen that argument a lot, and it always frustrates and baffles me. Such a silly reason to keep out (what I feel is) the coolest part of the franchise.

Excellent! I don't like firing people up....well...there are a few people on here that are fun to get going....but they're mostly in the ME3 section.

We cool, bro. 

I also just noticed the floss thing. Was that meant to be a joke based on my name? Sly!

Filament wrote...
Seriously, I've been saying this over and over but it never seems to convince anyone.

I'm convinced. Let's start a club.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 01 octobre 2012 - 06:27 .

[brushyourteeth]

Faerunner wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I find HN repulsive from now on ever since it was confirmed that you're forced to be racist at the beginning. 

WTF are you talking about?

How your character stands by, watching the cook mistreat the elven servants, I would guess.

If I remember correctly you can put that cook in her place just as easily. I don't remember the exact dialogue but I remember doing it once for my "Mean Little **** Entitled Prince" run.

You're allowed to insult her, stand up for yourself or your dog, but you aren't allowed to stand up for the elven staff or call her out on her hypocrisy for telling the fable about abusing power when the exact same story can apply to her treatment of the elves. (Heck, you have the option to suggest she beat them.)

BioWare confirmed in an interview that this was intentional, as they wanted players' experience to be different based on race. That is, as an elf you get to be the oppressed, whereas a human you are the oppressor.

I commend their efforts to create a dynamic experience based on race, truly I do; but after having the option to see the world from the eyes of elves, I resent being forced back to the viewpoint of the human alone. BioWare kept the dynamic racial tension between humans and elves in DA2 (boy did they ever, as we discover with Merrill's Clan and the father from Magister's Orders), but now we're forced to see the conflict only from one side. This upsets me inside. 

I agree, Faerunner. Getting to see the same world through so many different perspectives really made the lore feel fleshed-out and complete to me.

I honestly feel awful when I talk to players who've only done a human origin playthrough in DA:O and then played DAII. I'm sure they had as much fun as anybody, but they're missing out on so much insight and understanding about Thedas' diverse cultures. Interesting ones. That add new shades to all the others.

[Biotic Sage]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Icinix wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Whoa, relax their floss.

*snip*

yeah, I really should have let you know that I didn't intend that with any animosity towards you --- I've seen that argument a lot, and it always frustrates and baffles me. Such a silly reason to keep out (what I feel is) the coolest part of the franchise.

Excellent! I don't like firing people up....well...there are a few people on here that are fun to get going....but they're mostly in the ME3 section.

We cool, bro. 

I also just noticed the floss thing. Was that meant to be a joke based on my name? Sly!

Filament wrote...
Seriously, I've been saying this over and over but it never seems to convince anyone.

I'm convinced. Let's start a club.

My fiancee is a dental student and every day she tries to convince me that flossing is just as important as brushing your teeth.  I'll never believe her.

[Xilizhra]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I find HN repulsive from now on ever since it was confirmed that you're forced to be racist at the beginning. 

WTF are you talking about?

How your character stands by, watching the cook mistreat the elven servants, I would guess.

More or less. I handwaved this on my own run, but have since learned of an actual dev statement saying that it was a deliberate choice for the HN PC to be racist in that instance.

And ah, yes, Faerunner showed up. Good woman. I have been ninjad.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 01 octobre 2012 - 06:34 .

[bleetman]

Faerunner wrote...

You're allowed to insult her, stand up for yourself or your dog, but you aren't allowed to stand up for the elven staff or call her out on her hypocrisy for telling the fable about abusing power when the exact same story can apply to her treatment of the elves. (Heck, you have the option to suggest she beat them.)

I'm sure her treatment of the kitchen staff is due to their race and not because she's a cantankerous old women who heckles everybody, noble and Ser WhateverhisnameisIforget included.

Yep.

[Xilizhra]

bleetman wrote...

Faerunner wrote...

You're allowed to insult her, stand up for yourself or your dog, but you aren't allowed to stand up for the elven staff or call her out on her hypocrisy for telling the fable about abusing power when the exact same story can apply to her treatment of the elves. (Heck, you have the option to suggest she beat them.)

I'm sure her treatment of the kitchen staff is due to their race and not because she's a cantankerous old women who heckles everybody, noble and Ser WhateverhisnameisIforget included.

Yep.

Say what you like, but the devs don't lie in this instance. I assume.

[Dasher1010]

I want to be a necromorph

[brushyourteeth]

Biotic Sage wrote...

My fiancee is a dental student and every day she tries to convince me that flossing is just as important as brushing your teeth.  I'll never believe her.

Good man! But I may be biased. 

bleetman wrote...

Faerunner wrote...

You're allowed to insult her, stand up for yourself or your dog, but you aren't allowed to stand up for the elven staff or call her out on her hypocrisy for telling the fable about abusing power when the exact same story can apply to her treatment of the elves. (Heck, you have the option to suggest she beat them.)

I'm sure her treatment of the kitchen staff is due to their race and not because she's a cantankerous old women who heckles everybody, noble and Ser WhateverhisnameisIforget included.

Yep.

She wouldn't call human servants knife-ears (a racial slur, however innocent you want to make it). And doesn't she threaten to send them back to the alienage if they don't get back to work or some such business like that?

[PinkDiamondstl]

Troll thread...

[Nashimura]

Icinix wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I don't think the other races are inherently more interesting, so I dispute your "most boring" premise emphatically.

If you take out the origins and the odd piece of dialogue here or there in the game - there was very little impact on the game as a whole.

...but those Origins were damn fine.

I thought the dwarf, mage and city elf had plenty of impact when you go back home for there quest missions - thats what made the origins for me and also made the human and dalish elf weaker in my opinion - even though my main canon is dalish...it was mostly due to the roleplaying it allowed being such an outsider. 

[Foolsfolly]

Xilizhra wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I find HN repulsive from now on ever since it was confirmed that you're forced to be racist at the beginning. 

WTF are you talking about?

How your character stands by, watching the cook mistreat the elven servants, I would guess.

More or less. I handwaved this on my own run, but have since learned of an actual dev statement saying that it was a deliberate choice for the HN PC to be racist in that instance.

And ah, yes, Faerunner showed up. Good woman. I have been ninjad.

Why handwave it? You're a privileged noble. Even the most progressive noble in Thedas would have a hard time seeing through institutionalized racism. Now once they've been out in the world for a while, sleeping in dirt, meeting different cultures, and seeing the injustices of the Alienages sure they could start to see through it. But at the beginning? I don't see it as likely.

And it's not even a "Let them eat cake" moment or anything. It's just walking around the house seeing the exact sort of treatment by the staff as any other day. It's normal. And once you think of something as normal it's hard to see it as wrong. Especially if you grew up with that as normal.

[ObserverStatus]

IKR? I want to be a dragon hella bad, because they're the most interesting race, but Bioware won't let me! What the hell, Bioware? :'(

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I could see the same VA's doing all the races, if they all grew up in the same country, since the country's culture would have changed them. Example, I have a friend who moved to US from Britain when he was eight. After a little over a decade, he lost all traces of British accent/speech patterns.

[Xilizhra]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I find HN repulsive from now on ever since it was confirmed that you're forced to be racist at the beginning. 

WTF are you talking about?

How your character stands by, watching the cook mistreat the elven servants, I would guess.

More or less. I handwaved this on my own run, but have since learned of an actual dev statement saying that it was a deliberate choice for the HN PC to be racist in that instance.

And ah, yes, Faerunner showed up. Good woman. I have been ninjad.

Why handwave it? You're a privileged noble. Even the most progressive noble in Thedas would have a hard time seeing through institutionalized racism. Now once they've been out in the world for a while, sleeping in dirt, meeting different cultures, and seeing the injustices of the Alienages sure they could start to see through it. But at the beginning? I don't see it as likely.

And it's not even a "Let them eat cake" moment or anything. It's just walking around the house seeing the exact sort of treatment by the staff as any other day. It's normal. And once you think of something as normal it's hard to see it as wrong. Especially if you grew up with that as normal.

For more or less the same reason I want to not play an Andrastian: I hate my character being forced into any sort of a belief system that I find repugnant. I was able to handwave this one by suggesting that my noble in question would try to make it up to the elves later because engaging in an argument with Nan right then would go nowhere, but apparently even in DAO, we weren't supposed to be wholly playing our own characters. Oh well, at least this one had different origins.

[ObserverStatus]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...
Well, you're welcome to your opinion. Human Noble was one of my favorite origins in DA:O.
and you really aren't forced to do anything. If the game contains an element you can't get over, then you can just choose not to play it.

We, you're right that we all make choices, but in the end our choices make us.

[brushyourteeth]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Why handwave it? You're a privileged noble. Even the most progressive noble in Thedas would have a hard time seeing through institutionalized racism. Now once they've been out in the world for a while, sleeping in dirt, meeting different cultures, and seeing the injustices of the Alienages sure they could start to see through it. But at the beginning? I don't see it as likely.

And it's not even a "Let them eat cake" moment or anything. It's just walking around the house seeing the exact sort of treatment by the staff as any other day. It's normal. And once you think of something as normal it's hard to see it as wrong. Especially if you grew up with that as normal.

I think that's what made the origins unique. You learned about the world while you were crafting your character. The fact that your HN wouldn't for once pause to consider that Nan's behavior was unacceptable told us a lot about the relationship between elves and humans. Even common ones (like Nan). He/she might have been a wonderful person who went on to right many other injustices. That just wasn't ever going to be one you were socialized to think about.

But if Xilizhra found that to be something that was a deal-breaker for creating the character she wanted to play, that's completely her business and not ours to judge.

[Nashimura]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

I could see the same VA's doing all the races, if they all grew up in the same country, since the country's culture would have changed them. Example, I have a friend who moved to US from Britain when he was eight. After a little over a decade, he lost all traces of British accent/speech patterns.

Maybe they will just give them all a french accent and be done with it...Oui

Modifié par Nashimura, 01 octobre 2012 - 07:04 .

[TheBlackBaron]

Because humans are actually the most interesting race, given all the others seem to be pidgeonholed into a single culture.

I've never understood this viewpoint that humans are boring. Especially when leveled against human LI's.

[Foolsfolly]

bobobo878 wrote...

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...
Well, you're welcome to your opinion. Human Noble was one of my favorite origins in DA:O.
and you really aren't forced to do anything. If the game contains an element you can't get over, then you can just choose not to play it.

We, you're right that we all make choices, but in the end our choices make us.

Best. Video. Game. Moment. Ever.

Ever.

Goddamn I loved that bit. Great critique of video games in general and the idea of the illusion of control in particular. Oh, man. I forced that game on so many people because of that moment.

[Eveangaline]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Because humans are actually the most interesting race, given all the others seem to be pidgeonholed into a single culture.

I've never understood this viewpoint that humans are boring. Especially when leveled against human LI's.

But there's more than a single culture in the other ones. Elves have the city eves, mage circle elves, dalish elves, tevinter slave elves, and those living in cities are then effected by what country they're in just like the humans.

Dwarves have the people in orzzamar of course, but they also have the surface dwarves, effected by the country they're in just like the humans.