275 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

still don't listen to what people write Dreman

No proper counter argument as usual.

[KENNY4753]

you have to love seeing the Morality/Moral Conflict argument on every single post from Dreman.

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...

Massa FX wrote...

Best way to defeat the Reapers is... find the kid AI's blue box and smash it to bits. Soo... easy. No relay destruction or red, green, blue colors.

Safe, simple and effective. Kill the Reaper control stick and the galaxy has a better future.

Catalyst:I'm the colective intellegence of the reapers...


So that would mean doing that won't work.

The Citadel is his home, has to have hardware there somewhere.

[dreman9999]

Massa FX wrote...



@everyone Posters like dre..99 are comic relief. I love reading the wording... the typos... the awesome brilliant odd logic. We don't need to feed these people but damn, the lolz are great!

How is the logic of doing what you have to do odd?
Most people just want a clear cut way to spot he reaper with out sacrifices from themselves. That's not going to happen and it the fault of the creators of the crucible. But there's nothing we can do to change that. We can only do what we can.

[Massa FX]

Master Che wrote...

Massa FX wrote...

Best way to defeat the Reapers is... find the kid AI's blue box and smash it to bits. Soo... easy. No relay destruction or red, green, blue colors.

Safe, simple and effective. Kill the Reaper control stick and the galaxy has a better future.

Located...?

Anywhere, but definitely somewhere. As Shepard, I would have refused and made it my mission to find the AI blue box and destroy it. My headcannon that is in keeping with every AI with attitude solution previously experienced in the game.  

Hunt for blue box vs destroy synthetcs vs dna magic vs become the biggest baddest Reaper vs refuse and doom the cycle to extinction. I'm going after that box.

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Massa FX wrote...

Best way to defeat the Reapers is... find the kid AI's blue box and smash it to bits. Soo... easy. No relay destruction or red, green, blue colors.

Safe, simple and effective. Kill the Reaper control stick and the galaxy has a better future.

Catalyst:I'm the colective intellegence of the reapers...


So that would mean doing that won't work.

The Citadel is his home, has to have hardware there somewhere.

The citadel is part of him. Like a heart is part of you. Understand that the catalyst is a many head hydra.

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...

The citadel is part of him. Like a heart is part of you. Understand that the catalyst is a many head hydra.

Removing my heart would kill me. <3

[dreman9999]

KENNY4753 wrote...

you have to love seeing the Morality/Moral Conflict argument on every single post from Dreman.

It's not like the game itself does not bring up these issues.

Legion of all characters does this in spades.

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The citadel is part of him. Like a heart is part of you. Understand that the catalyst is a many head hydra.

Removing my heart would kill me. <3

And sythetic are independent of there parts.

Modifié par dreman9999, 02 octobre 2012 - 04:53 .

[NM_Che56]

Massa FX wrote...

Master Che wrote...

Massa FX wrote...

Best way to defeat the Reapers is... find the kid AI's blue box and smash it to bits. Soo... easy. No relay destruction or red, green, blue colors.

Safe, simple and effective. Kill the Reaper control stick and the galaxy has a better future.

Located...?

Anywhere, but definitely somewhere. As Shepard, I would have refused and made it my mission to find the AI blue box and destroy it. My headcannon that is in keeping with every AI with attitude solution previously experienced in the game.  

Hunt for blue box vs destroy synthetcs vs dna magic vs become the biggest baddest Reaper vs refuse and doom the cycle to extinction. I'm going after that box.

But what if by destroying this blue box all you did was create mindless killing machines? O_O

not to take the wind out of your sails, but ...uh...why not just head canon an "non-catylst" solution?

Modifié par Master Che, 02 octobre 2012 - 04:34 .

[KENNY4753]

dreman9999 wrote...

Massa FX wrote...



@everyone Posters like dre..99 are comic relief. I love reading the wording... the typos... the awesome brilliant odd logic. We don't need to feed these people but damn, the lolz are great!

How is the logic of doing what you have to do odd?
Most people just want a clear cut way to spot he reaper with out sacrifices from themselves. That's not going to happen and it the fault of the creators of the crucible. But there's nothing we can do to change that. We can only do what we can.

"spot he reaper" I think you meant "Stop the Reapers" Maybe proofreading your posts would help get your point across.

You can't say what most people want. Where is your proof that most people want that? I'm pretty sure a lot of people wouldn't mind Shepard's death along with stopping the Reapers as long as it made sense. Not just doing what some random AI tells us to. Hell it would have made more sense if Avina was the catalyst instead of Starbrat.

and yes I agree that it is the fault of the creators of the crucible (EAware) that we can't get an ending that makes sense and that is why people speak out and voice their displeasure.

Modifié par KENNY4753, 02 octobre 2012 - 04:36 .

[NM_Che56]

dreman9999 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Massa FX wrote...

Best way to defeat the Reapers is... find the kid AI's blue box and smash it to bits. Soo... easy. No relay destruction or red, green, blue colors.

Safe, simple and effective. Kill the Reaper control stick and the galaxy has a better future.

Catalyst:I'm the colective intellegence of the reapers...


So that would mean doing that won't work.

The Citadel is his home, has to have hardware there somewhere.

The citadel is part of him. Like a heart is part of you. Understand that the catalyst is a many head hydra.

False analogy

Hey! This is fun throwing out terms I learned in college as a way of rebuffing an argument. 

J/K

That's kinda my point.  You destroy the thing that got them working in concert. That doesn't mean that individually they wouldn't be a danger.  I don't think they'll all look at each other and say, "uh...wanna just go get a beer"?

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The citadel is part of him. Like a heart is part of you. Understand that the catalyst is a many head hydra.

Removing my heart would kill me. <3

And sythetic are intradependent of there parts.

Hey you  picked the analogy , besides the Reapers have cores with do function like hearts. Then he'd be independent of the Citadel entirly howere the Citadeldoes house their collective intelligence removing their ability to, shall we say "join with each other" in that manner could hurt them.

[KENNY4753]

dreman9999 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

you have to love seeing the Morality/Moral Conflict argument on every single post from Dreman.

It's not like the game itself does not bring up these issues.

Legion of all characters does this in spades.

But my point is that in every post of your's you say the same exact thing. Your argument never varies. It's like you have your responses saved in a document on your desktop and just copy and paste the same posts and change a couple words.

I already know how arguing about the morality will play out because I could just go look in the other 100 threads I've seen your exact argument, so I'll save you the time of copying and pasting your posts.

Modifié par KENNY4753, 02 octobre 2012 - 04:42 .

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

still don't listen to what people write Dreman

No proper counter argument as usual.

because your comments are nothing more of a comic

Modifié par AresKeith, 02 octobre 2012 - 04:41 .

[dreman9999]

KENNY4753 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Massa FX wrote...



@everyone Posters like dre..99 are comic relief. I love reading the wording... the typos... the awesome brilliant odd logic. We don't need to feed these people but damn, the lolz are great!

How is the logic of doing what you have to do odd?
Most people just want a clear cut way to spot he reaper with out sacrifices from themselves. That's not going to happen and it the fault of the creators of the crucible. But there's nothing we can do to change that. We can only do what we can.

"spot he reaper" I think you meant "Stop the Reapers" Maybe proofreading your posts would help get your point across.

You can't say what most people want. Where is your proof that most people want that? I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't mind Shepard's death along with stopping the Reapers as long as it made sense. Not just doing what some random AI tells us to. Hell it would have made more sense if Avina was the catalyst instead of Starbrat.

and yes I agree that it is the fault of the creators of the crucible (EAware) that we can't get an ending that makes sense and that is why people speak out and voice their displeasure.

1. I don't mean BW. Infact, based on ther past plan you would of had a morally conflicting ending any way.

Think of it this way. If any character that has a sad end in a tragedy found out it's so because some guy planned it for a story, would they not be upset?

2. On that, we have a topic on this borad that goes for 238 page aslking for that easy ending. We have a survey stating most people rather have happy ending for their Shepard.
It's clear people want an easy way out of the choices.

3. But it does make sense how Shep deid. You not getting you fighting a race that does not care for combat or winning. The reaper have a strange perspective that ignorse the concepts of black and white. We have been told over and over agein what to expect form them. Even Saren stated that they think like machines. The ending is base on that.
The catalyst is letting you win because he does not care to win. He only care to do what he is programed to do.
Control is a mass rewrite,Destory is a blast that effects all tech and makes all AI's brain dead.

The only thing that has no clear explination is synthesis but it's done so to bring the issue of advancement and ends vs means, an issue stated form the sart of the series.
The synthesis is just a question if it matter how we advance and get our tech.

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

still don't listen to what people write Dreman

No proper counter argument as usual.

because your comments are nothing more of a comic

No proper counter argument as usual.

[dreman9999]

KENNY4753 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

you have to love seeing the Morality/Moral Conflict argument on every single post from Dreman.

It's not like the game itself does not bring up these issues.

Legion of all characters does this in spades.

But my point is that in every post of your's you say the same exact thing. Your argument never varies. It's like you have your responses saved in a document on your desktop and just copy and paste the same posts and change a couple words.

I already know how arguing about the morality will play out because I could just go look in the other 100 threads I've seen your exact argument, so I'll save you the time of copying and pasting your posts.

I say the same arguement bacause it's never countered. And no I don't copy and paste it. I'm only say it over agein because  most people who complain don't condider that angle.

[Nightwriter]

AlanC9 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
The Catalyst is a threat to the illusion of self-determination. It is a clouded enemy presenting choices to us on a platter, and it asks us to accept that these choices are real, necessary, and the only ones available to us. This creates the feeling that the only right action is to upend the platter and shoot the one holding it, because my instinct is not to let a possible enemy lead me by the bridle or feed my choices to me. 

If there were no platter, and no Catalyst, there would be only me and my choices.

Thanks for putting "illusion" in there.

Unfortunately I have no idea if you're being sarcastic or not.

So I'll just say that all games are illusions and my ability to enjoy them depends upon the quality of the illusion. The Catalyst isn't a problem because it takes away my player agency but because it destroys the illusion of player agency.

[dreman9999]

Nightwriter wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
The Catalyst is a threat to the illusion of self-determination. It is a clouded enemy presenting choices to us on a platter, and it asks us to accept that these choices are real, necessary, and the only ones available to us. This creates the feeling that the only right action is to upend the platter and shoot the one holding it, because my instinct is not to let a possible enemy lead me by the bridle or feed my choices to me. 

If there were no platter, and no Catalyst, there would be only me and my choices.

Thanks for putting "illusion" in there.

Unfortunately I have no idea if you're being sarcastic or not.

So I'll just say that all games are illusions and my ability to enjoy them depends upon the quality of the illusion. The Catalyst isn't a problem because it takes away my player agency but because it destroys the illusion of player agency.

A being that tells you you have not time, and suppendly forces you to quickly pick something destroys the illusion of agency?

[Massa FX]

The machines stop working. Period.

The Catalyst says it gives the Reapers purpose. Remove the instruction to harvest, kill, and shoot, the machines stop and wait for orders. The husks stop because the Reapers are no longer giving them orders.

So then what? They don't fall over and quiver. They just freeze. Asleep if you will.

If that's too extreme, I think removing the heart or brain of a Reaper would definitely make a conventional victory assured. There would have to be some downtime as they adjusted. Time enough to blow them up, or get EDI to step in and control them, or EDI hacks in and tells them to run themselves into the nearest star.

Note: I don't mind rebuttals to my theory/ideas. As long as you're nice and ...articulate. Helps me think my cannon through.

Modifié par Massa FX, 02 octobre 2012 - 05:32 .

[dreman9999]

Massa FX wrote...

The machines stop working. Period.

The Catalyst says it gives the Reapers purpose. Remove the instruction to harvest, kill, and shoot, the machines stop and wait for orders. The husks stop because the Reapers are no longer giving them orders.

So then what? They don't fall over and quiver. The just freeze. Asleep if you will.

If that's too extreme, I think removing the heart or brain of a Reaper would definitely make a conventional victory assured. There would have to be some downtime as they adjusted. Time enough to blow them up, or get EDI to step in and control them, or EDI hacks in and tells them to run themselves into the nearest star.

Note: I don't mind rebuttals to my theory/ideas. As long as you're nice and ...articulate. Helps me think my cannon through.

The catalyst is not a puppet master. Yes, he makes the reapers but he write it's programing, not remote control them. Nothis show that stopping him would stop the reapers.
Think that is as bad as think the empire in Starswars end when they lost there empire at the battle of endor.

Added, we well know that rapers are not easy to hack. But we have a way to do that anyway...It's called picking the Control option.

[Massa FX]

Master Che wrote...

Massa FX wrote...

Master Che wrote...

Massa FX wrote...

Best way to defeat the Reapers is... find the kid AI's blue box and smash it to bits. Soo... easy. No relay destruction or red, green, blue colors.

Safe, simple and effective. Kill the Reaper control stick and the galaxy has a better future.

Located...?

Anywhere, but definitely somewhere. As Shepard, I would have refused and made it my mission to find the AI blue box and destroy it. My headcannon that is in keeping with every AI with attitude solution previously experienced in the game.  

Hunt for blue box vs destroy synthetcs vs dna magic vs become the biggest baddest Reaper vs refuse and doom the cycle to extinction. I'm going after that box.

But what if by destroying this blue box all you did was create mindless killing machines? O_O

not to take the wind out of your sails, but ...uh...why not just head canon an "non-catylst" solution?

I have cannon without the Catalyst. It's based on my war assets kicking Reaper arse out of the galaxy into Oblivion.

[Massa FX]

dreman9999 wrote...

Massa FX wrote...

The machines stop working. Period.

The Catalyst says it gives the Reapers purpose. Remove the instruction to harvest, kill, and shoot, the machines stop and wait for orders. The husks stop because the Reapers are no longer giving them orders.

So then what? They don't fall over and quiver. The just freeze. Asleep if you will.

If that's too extreme, I think removing the heart or brain of a Reaper would definitely make a conventional victory assured. There would have to be some downtime as they adjusted. Time enough to blow them up, or get EDI to step in and control them, or EDI hacks in and tells them to run themselves into the nearest star.

Note: I don't mind rebuttals to my theory/ideas. As long as you're nice and ...articulate. Helps me think my cannon through.

The catalyst is not a puppet master. Yes, he makes the reapers but he write it's programing, not remote control them. Nothis show that stopping him would stop the reapers.
Think that is as bad as think the empire in Starswars end when they lost there empire at the battle of endor.

Added, we well know that rapers are not easy to hack. But we have a way to do that anyway...It's called picking the Control option.

"we well know that rapers are not easy to hack"

:lol:

[OdanUrr]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

NO I WILL NOT PICK A COLOR, I CAME TO DEFEAT EVIL. I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR THE NAZGUL WERE JUST TRYING TO HELP ME AFTER ALL. 

You could choose Red and destroy the Reapers?

And wipe out all the hobbits, I suppose. Well that's okay, at least we did what we set out to do: save the Shire.

OH WAIT NO WE DIDN'T.

No, no, we'll have to think of something else then. Perhaps we could pick the blue ending -- you become the new Sauron, but you use the One Ring to build carpool lanes and sh*t, and your Flaming Eye turns a lovely cerulean color!

No, still not right, still not right -- oh! Oh! Green! Turn everyone into half person, half Nazgul! This way, there will be peace! Sauron said so, it must be right.

You did not answer my question. Why would you not choose Destroy?

Because my Shepard faught for freedom. Hers and everybody's. She faught for the right for others to choose their own fates. Not just in organics but synthetics as well. Sure, people have been sacrificed along the way, but that's because she couldn't possibly save them. Not because a genocidal AI told her she couldn't.

Like I've said before, the moment you decided to use the Crucible, you accepted the fact that there might be unintended consequences. The Catalyst simply tells you what those consequences are.