Spirits are beings that draw power from elements of the human spirit. They are not former humans, as some people have posted earlier.
A spirit is true to their own nature, with a Rage demon gathering power from rage, a sloth demon gathering power from laziness/inretia, a valor spirit gaining power from courgae, etc. Its unclear if this is a choice the spirit make/made long ago, or if the spirit was "created" this way. If so, it would beg the question of why wouldn't every spirit be a Pride demon, if they are usually the most powerful? Maybe power doesn't really matter to a spirit the way we think it does, that maybe rage, hunger or desire are just more plentiful (and safe) sources of power, while unabashed pride is a rarer, but more powerful form of sustenance?
Regardless, I do like the idea of an "ascended demon" but it is not an easy way to explain. In the only witnessed example of a fallen spirit (Justice falling to Vengeance), it was the fusion of Anders and the spirit of Justice that caused this. If Justice had remained a spirit in the Fade (or even likely just in the body he possessed), his identity and nature would not have changed. But his tie to Anders and his sense of wrong in the world caused him to be corrupted, with Anders fear and hate to turn into its darker nature, transforming it into a "fallen spirit."
For an "ascended demon" to occur, it would need to have a human tied to it that would cause it to see the better part of its nature. Arguably, it could be said that Wynne did this (although we have no way of knowing), or that, at the least, Wynne's good nature was in line with the Spirit's nature (possibly why the Spirit sought her out) and was in no danger of being corrupted.
Regardless, for a demon to be affiliated with a human, it could not be an abomination, as that becomes a violent vessel for that demon's destruction. The only examples of a relationship existing with a human and a demon that were not possession or direct attempts at possession was Connor (who sold his soul, and who become controlled by the demon, but was not an abomination in the way the mage tower/Kirkwall abominations were) and the Knight Templar who was under the Desire demon's enchantment in the Tower.
Connor would likely have lost his humanity completely to the demon, so he is not a good example. But, perhaps, the Knight Templar's desire for a family and a life spent cherishing them COULD have changed the demon into what the Knight's desire truly was - love. A love demon/spirit (not of carnal lust, but born of genuine concern for loved ones) would be an interesting concept, especially since we have not seen a love/compassion spirit in the DA lore.
But... again... this ascended demon theory would require a demon not directly take over the body and soul of the human they would be attached to, which is (obviously) a very rare case.
Fallen Angels/Ascended Demons
Débuté par
Dasher1010
, oct. 01 2012 06:32
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#27
Guest_sjpelkessjpeler_*
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 11:12
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The thing about the fade is that we know that there are two kinds of entities there; demons and spirits.
We know more from the lore about the demons. They are the ones that try to interfere in the world passed the veil by trying to enter it. The spirits do watch what is going on in the world outside the fade but do not feel the need to go across.
I think it depends on what drives them that makes them have that want. Demons have selfish drives, spirits do not.
And there is the golden city of course.....there is a lot of contradiction in the story. But than again the story told is the one we know from the chantry. It is a story told and written down by humans which could raise the question what is true?
If the golden city was the 'home base' of the maker what was her doing in the fade in the first place? The fade is supposed to be the first world the maker created. Thedas was created after when the maker thought he made a mistake. Why would he stay in a realm that was not to his satisfaction?
The old gods were sealed away in heaven and in hell according to the lore by Fen'harel. Another contradiction because the old gods are buried and accessible for the darkspawn. The other ones that were send to 'heaven'; could that heaven be the fade? And where are they?
We know more from the lore about the demons. They are the ones that try to interfere in the world passed the veil by trying to enter it. The spirits do watch what is going on in the world outside the fade but do not feel the need to go across.
I think it depends on what drives them that makes them have that want. Demons have selfish drives, spirits do not.
And there is the golden city of course.....there is a lot of contradiction in the story. But than again the story told is the one we know from the chantry. It is a story told and written down by humans which could raise the question what is true?
If the golden city was the 'home base' of the maker what was her doing in the fade in the first place? The fade is supposed to be the first world the maker created. Thedas was created after when the maker thought he made a mistake. Why would he stay in a realm that was not to his satisfaction?
The old gods were sealed away in heaven and in hell according to the lore by Fen'harel. Another contradiction because the old gods are buried and accessible for the darkspawn. The other ones that were send to 'heaven'; could that heaven be the fade? And where are they?
#28
Posté 08 octobre 2012 - 11:34
Solmanian
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A hedonistic desire demon... I don't think it's a step up. more like a lateral shift.
#29
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 07:24
Maria Caliban
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Hope and Faith are apparently the Price and Desire of the spirits.ReggarBlane wrote...
It's almost like spirits are incomplete.
#30
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 02:23
TCBC_Freak
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Fast Jimmy wrote...
Spirits are beings that draw power from elements of the human spirit. They are not former humans, as some people have posted earlier.
A spirit is true to their own nature, with a Rage demon gathering power from rage, a sloth demon gathering power from laziness/inretia, a valor spirit gaining power from courgae, etc. Its unclear if this is a choice the spirit make/made long ago, or if the spirit was "created" this way. If so, it would beg the question of why wouldn't every spirit be a Pride demon, if they are usually the most powerful? Maybe power doesn't really matter to a spirit the way we think it does, that maybe rage, hunger or desire are just more plentiful (and safe) sources of power, while unabashed pride is a rarer, but more powerful form of sustenance?
Regardless, I do like the idea of an "ascended demon" but it is not an easy way to explain. In the only witnessed example of a fallen spirit (Justice falling to Vengeance), it was the fusion of Anders and the spirit of Justice that caused this. If Justice had remained a spirit in the Fade (or even likely just in the body he possessed), his identity and nature would not have changed. But his tie to Anders and his sense of wrong in the world caused him to be corrupted, with Anders fear and hate to turn into its darker nature, transforming it into a "fallen spirit."
For an "ascended demon" to occur, it would need to have a human tied to it that would cause it to see the better part of its nature. Arguably, it could be said that Wynne did this (although we have no way of knowing), or that, at the least, Wynne's good nature was in line with the Spirit's nature (possibly why the Spirit sought her out) and was in no danger of being corrupted.
Regardless, for a demon to be affiliated with a human, it could not be an abomination, as that becomes a violent vessel for that demon's destruction. The only examples of a relationship existing with a human and a demon that were not possession or direct attempts at possession was Connor (who sold his soul, and who become controlled by the demon, but was not an abomination in the way the mage tower/Kirkwall abominations were) and the Knight Templar who was under the Desire demon's enchantment in the Tower.
Connor would likely have lost his humanity completely to the demon, so he is not a good example. But, perhaps, the Knight Templar's desire for a family and a life spent cherishing them COULD have changed the demon into what the Knight's desire truly was - love. A love demon/spirit (not of carnal lust, but born of genuine concern for loved ones) would be an interesting concept, especially since we have not seen a love/compassion spirit in the DA lore.
But... again... this ascended demon theory would require a demon not directly take over the body and soul of the human they would be attached to, which is (obviously) a very rare case.
I think you're onto somehting here with the Templar and desire demon. Something like that could be very cool.
#31
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 02:55
Blessed Silence
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Dasher1010 wrote...
Justice was an angelic figure who became a demon through the blood magic of Kirkwall but what about a demon who becomes purified?
For instance a rage demon who embodies courage, a sloth demon who embodies peice, a desire demon who's more based around hedonism than averace or a pride demon who's the embodiment of duty? There are artifacts and places that can purify darkness and many demons wouldn't corrupt that place but be purified by it. What then?
Justice wasn't an angel, he was a spirit embiding the concept of Justice .... from what he said. (I think)
Though gonna step away from this topic since I spend alot of time studying that metaphysical aspect (angels) and don't want to start a rant.
#32
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 03:18
Huntress
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Dasher1010 wrote...
Justice was an angelic figure who became a demon through the blood magic of Kirkwall but what about a demon who becomes purified?
For instance a rage demon who embodies courage, a sloth demon who embodies peice, a desire demon who's more based around hedonism than averace or a pride demon who's the embodiment of duty? There are artifacts and places that can purify darkness and many demons wouldn't corrupt that place but be purified by it. What then?
was it now? meh.. where did you read such a thing? Link Codex please
Justice is a Demon and if he ever had a duty it was droped when he joined Anders and became Vengance.
I have no clue of such a artifact are this in a book? comic? the game world is very different from the book and comic ask the writers if you don't believe me.
Modifié par Huntress, 09 octobre 2012 - 03:19 .
