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[PsychoBlonde]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Arokel wrote...

To do that you would have to move continents.  The effects of DAO and DA2 have at least some sort of impact all of Thedas.

The impact of DA:O is 'Thedas isn't overwhelmed by the Blight.' The solution would be to have a canon where Thedas isn't overwhelmed by the Blight.

The impact of DA II is 'The Templars and the Mages are at war.' The solution would be to have a canon where the Templars and Circles are at war.

You don't need save importing for any of that. Ferelden is a backwater country. No one cares whether it has a king or queen. Hawke repels a qunari invasion of Kirkwall. No one cares if the qunari get their book or not.

Yeah, and it's not like the cameos which are all you can potentially get have any real significance, either.  It sounds like we're never going to get a really interesting or satisfactory wrapup on the OGB, though.  And Sten potentially being the new Arishok could be really cool and awesome but will likely also get completely bypassed because of the whole save importing thing.

[Arokel]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Arokel wrote...

To do that you would have to move continents.  The effects of DAO and DA2 have at least some sort of impact all of Thedas.

The impact of DA:O is 'Thedas isn't overwhelmed by the Blight.' The solution would be to have a canon where Thedas isn't overwhelmed by the Blight.

The impact of DA II is 'The Templars and the Mages are at war.' The solution would be to have a canon where the Templars and Circles are at war.

You don't need save importing for any of that. Ferelden is a backwater country. No one cares whether it has a king or queen. Hawke repels a qunari invasion of Kirkwall. No one cares if the qunari get their book or not.

Yeah, and it's not like the cameos which are all you can potentially get have any real significance, either.  It sounds like we're never going to get a really interesting or satisfactory wrapup on the OGB, though.  And Sten potentially being the new Arishok could be really cool and awesome but will likely also get completely bypassed because of the whole save importing thing.

There is a solution for the Sten situation.  Some kind-hearted (or stupid) villager let him go as the horde was bearing down on Lothering.  He escapes, finds his sword, and heads back home.  

That might be a bit of a stretch but its better than the Leliana's "The Maker decided it wasn't my time" line.

[PsychoBlonde]

Arokel wrote...

There is a solution for the Sten situation.  Some kind-hearted (or stupid) villager let him go as the horde was bearing down on Lothering.  He escapes, finds his sword, and heads back home.  

That might be a bit of a stretch but its better than the Leliana's "The Maker decided it wasn't my time" line.

Oh, sure, there's a solution.  BUT . . . then you don't need an import, because it is what it is and your choices in Origins have no bearing on the situation.  So, you're basically agreeing that the import is pointless.

[Arokel]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Arokel wrote...

There is a solution for the Sten situation.  Some kind-hearted (or stupid) villager let him go as the horde was bearing down on Lothering.  He escapes, finds his sword, and heads back home.  

That might be a bit of a stretch but its better than the Leliana's "The Maker decided it wasn't my time" line.

Oh, sure, there's a solution.  BUT . . . then you don't need an import, because it is what it is and your choices in Origins have no bearing on the situation.  So, you're basically agreeing that the import is pointless.

Not neccesarily.  Sten's time with the Warden changed his view on the peoples of Thedas significantly.  As Arishok he has a better understanding of Thedosian cultures and maybe even a little tolerance.  

If Sten was not with the Warden.  He would not have this and as Arishok he might be much more belligerent and hostile towards the Qunari's neighbors

[EmperorSahlertz]

Not to mention that Sten might not have become Arishok at all, if the Arishok in DA2 is allowed to leave.

[Wulfram]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Not to mention that Sten might not have become Arishok at all, if the Arishok in DA2 is allowed to leave.

Considering in that situation Isabela apparently escaped with the book again, the DA2 Arishok is probably fired for being a total screw up in any case.

[Arokel]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Not to mention that Sten might not have become Arishok at all, if the Arishok in DA2 is allowed to leave.

It took him for yours for him to recover the Tome of Koslun.  Four years that it was in the hands of filthy, unenlightened bas.  Then he went and lost it AGAIN.   That would be like having the original copies of the Gospels, or the Quran in the hands of another religion or atheists.

I don't think he got a warm welcome when he got back.

Modifié par Arokel, 01 octobre 2012 - 07:46 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Or it might just be one of Varic's stories.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Arokel wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Not to mention that Sten might not have become Arishok at all, if the Arishok in DA2 is allowed to leave.

It took him for yours for him to recover the Tome of Koslun.  Four years that it was in the hands of filthy, unenlightened bas.  Then he went and lost it AGAIN>   That would be like having the original copies of the Gospels, or the Quran in the hands of another religion or atheists.

I don't think he got a warm welcome when he got back.

He still actually retrieved a tome of utmost sanctity which had been lost to the Qunari for over a hudnred years. I'd wager that if he returned with the book he would be viewed as a hero. Chances are he is announced Qunoran vehl, since he lived and died as an example to the other Qunari.

[Knight of Dane]

He failed his mission twice. And he got involved in politics when he's only supposed to be a leader of armies.
The Qunari doesn't, to my understanding, uplift Qunoran Vehl out of princip but of accomplishments.

[Arokel]

Perhaps the Arishok situation will be like Wrex and Wreav. Depending on what happened it will either be the current Arishok or Sten who is Arishok.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Knight of Dane wrote...

He failed his mission twice. And he got involved in politics when he's only supposed to be a leader of armies.
The Qunari doesn't, to my understanding, uplift Qunoran Vehl out of princip but of accomplishments.

Only if you let the Arishok take Isabela did he (possibly) fail his mission. His mission was to take possession of the book and return it to Par Vollen. He never met with the Orlesian dignitaries, and as such he was never in possession of the Tome, until it was handed to him by Isabela. Likewise, he never lost it from his possession unless he took Isabela with him to Par Vollen. Only in the case of Hawke fighting the Arishok without giving the tome first, did the Arishok fail his mission, but in that case he still gave his life for his mission, which is also commendable for the Qunari. Bottomline: The Arishok of DA2 would probably be revered by most Qunari.
In the case of the Arishok and Hawke fightng honorably, the Arishok had already gained possession of the book, which would mean mission accomplished, and he died an honorable death in the name of the Qun. This is the scenario most likely for him to be announced Qunoran Vehl for.

[Icinix]

Yes please. More freedom of alignment or to not align is fine in my books!

[Knight of Dane]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

He failed his mission twice. And he got involved in politics when he's only supposed to be a leader of armies.
The Qunari doesn't, to my understanding, uplift Qunoran Vehl out of princip but of accomplishments.

Only if you let the Arishok take Isabela did he (possibly) fail his mission. His mission was to take possession of the book and return it to Par Vollen. He never met with the Orlesian dignitaries, and as such he was never in possession of the Tome, until it was handed to him by Isabela. Likewise, he never lost it from his possession unless he took Isabela with him to Par Vollen. Only in the case of Hawke fighting the Arishok without giving the tome first, did the Arishok fail his mission, but in that case he still gave his life for his mission, which is also commendable for the Qunari. Bottomline: The Arishok of DA2 would probably be revered by most Qunari.
In the case of the Arishok and Hawke fightng honorably, the Arishok had already gained possession of the book, which would mean mission accomplished, and he died an honorable death in the name of the Qun. This is the scenario most likely for him to be announced Qunoran Vehl for.

I disagree. He fails to capture Isabela which is as much part of his duty as the book is. A half mission is not to be considered completed. At least that's the impression the Qun gives me.

[EmperorSahlertz]

His mission was not at all to capture Isabela. When he had her in his reach, he could not deny the oppertunity to take the theif with him though. However, if Hawke duels the Arishok, he earns Isabela the right to stay in Kirkwall.

[Knight of Dane]

Like Ketojan says: "Losing to you does not make him wrong."
The Arishok dueled Hawke to "win" Isabela because Hawke opposed him, it wasn't a matter of Hawke earning Isabela, it was just him stopping the Arishok from getting her, which is a mission failure.
The Arishok even says himself that he can't leave without the thief, he still battles Hawke if Isabela never return with the book where they are just oppositions in a conflict.

[EmperorSahlertz]

And yet the other Qunari says that the demands of the Qun have been met, and they leave. If it was somehow a demand of the Qun that they caught the theif aswell, the other Qunari would have fought to capture Isabela aswell. IIRC the Arishok even propose the duel, with the terms being that if Hawke wins, he gets to keep Isabela, and if he loses he would be dead.

[PsychoBlonde]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

And yet the other Qunari says that the demands of the Qun have been met, and they leave. If it was somehow a demand of the Qun that they caught the theif aswell, the other Qunari would have fought to capture Isabela aswell. IIRC the Arishok even propose the duel, with the terms being that if Hawke wins, he gets to keep Isabela, and if he loses he would be dead.

They leave even if they don't get the book back, which leads me to conclude that the demand of the Qun was personal to the Arishok because he "let" Izzy steal the book so it was his PERSONAL failure and the other Qunari were just there because THEY were bound to take the Arishok's orders as long as he was alive.  If the Arishok failed in his mission and died, they were free to return home.

This would also explain why they had so very many defections--can you imagine the other Qunari being pleased to stay in Kirkwall for year after year dealing with what they viewed as the Arishok's personal screwup?

[Yevetha]

You're assumming the mage/templar conflict is the only conflict in DA:I. Who is to say we're not going to be at war with the Qunari as well? or the darkspawn?

[PsychoBlonde]

Arokel wrote...

Not neccesarily.  Sten's time with the Warden changed his view on the peoples of Thedas significantly.  As Arishok he has a better understanding of Thedosian cultures and maybe even a little tolerance.  

I seriously doubt this--whoever decides who becomes the next Arishok would not tolerate deviation of this kind, and Sten himself isn't one to let his personal feelings interfere with what he sees as his duty.

Plus, David Gaider indicated that Sten would have to undergo a lengthy period of "reeducation" once he got back home.

[Foolsfolly]

Arokel wrote...

Perhaps the Arishok situation will be like Wrex and Wreav. Depending on what happened it will either be the current Arishok or Sten who is Arishok.

Using only the power of my imagination which could be very very wrong....

Sten becomes the Arishok regardless. The Arishok failed in his duty to transport a book back home. He then overstepped his bounds by starting a small war/riot in the Free Marches. As such he is lowered a step or three and a new guy steps in.

Our Sten from Origins who I guess could be dead in your Origins save.... perhaps. But just leaving him in Lothering and not being there when the darkspawn arrive... who's to say what happened to that guy?

[septembervirgin]

 I glean from playng Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age 2 that the game series is primarily about the inevitability of servitude.  We serve one master or another -- there is no actual way to escape love and terror.  We might have the illusion of having neither, but our very desire to void ourselves of love and terror is due to love and terror.

And in Dragon Age we end up serving various masters because of our passion.  Without passion, we serve blindly because we've no reason to escape then.  Of course, in Dragon Age it's the sole cause of suffering, to serve and to lead, to love and to fear, these quadrants being definitive over all things perceived and animate.

In reality, it seems to me that we cannot escape podal categories that we feel are encompassing portions of a whole.  If we define the world as being composed of "masters" and "slaves" it's likely we'll feel we cannot evade being both or either.  There's no need to escape so much as to understand that words and categories are hardly capable of describing a world that is more complex than our senses provide to us.  I'm not convinced that our science is as powerful as people claim.

However, should so many people begin operating under the belief that the world is entirely master and slave, dominator and oppressed, proctor and ward, wisdom and foolery, then we also begin seeing things as entirely too binary and staid in operation.  We begin to miss subtleties, we begin to miss innuendo that exists outside the paradigm we seem to have fallen into.

If we notice physical interactions between the inanimate and do not suffer much anthropomorphism to govern our interpretations, we begin to see that physical interaction at its basis is motion caused by demons and constellation opera.  Be comforted by this truth.

[iSignIn]

Wulfram wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Not to mention that Sten might not have become Arishok at all, if the Arishok in DA2 is allowed to leave.

Considering in that situation Isabela apparently escaped with the book again, the DA2 Arishok is probably fired for being a total screw up in any case.

You're too good at this. BioWare should hire you.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Arokel wrote...

Perhaps the Arishok situation will be like Wrex and Wreav. Depending on what happened it will either be the current Arishok or Sten who is Arishok.

Using only the power of my imagination which could be very very wrong....

Sten becomes the Arishok regardless. The Arishok failed in his duty to transport a book back home. He then overstepped his bounds by starting a small war/riot in the Free Marches. As such he is lowered a step or three and a new guy steps in.

Our Sten from Origins who I guess could be dead in your Origins save.... perhaps. But just leaving him in Lothering and not being there when the darkspawn arrive... who's to say what happened to that guy?

It is fully within the bounds of the Arishoks authority to start a war.. That's actually one of his prime roles.. And only in one case did he certainly fail to obtain the tome, but in that case he is dead anyway.