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Why Lambert and the Templars are hypocrites.


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#1
WhiteKnyght

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Reason One

"Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him, foul and corrupt are they who have taken his gift and turned it against his children. They shall be named Maleficar, accursed ones. They shall fine no rest in this world. Or beyond."

From this, the Chantry and Templars draw their justification for imprisoning mages and killing anyone. But this is the only "commandment" that the templars half follow.

1. Templar powers are magic too. It may be artifically endowed, but the power to dispel magic is magic nonetheless.

2. Being a mage doesn't automatically make a person evil.

3. The Templars use their artificial magic to bully and persecute mages in a fashion that the above commandment in no way entails. Be imprisoned or die is not in the Chant of Light. Using the threat of their abilities to intimidate most mages into submission.

4. The Maker in no way selected or entitled these men and women in the Templars to do this. They elected themselves, and proclaim it to be the will of The Maker.

5. Templars condemn the use of blood magic as heresy. Yet use it themselves to keep mages collared.(Phylacteries)

By this logic, the Templars have taken the gift of magic and turned it into a weapon to persecute innocent people. They, by their own religion's terms, are Maleficar themselves. As the commandment refers to abusing power, and has no mention of blood magic in the verse.

Reason Two

"All men are the Work of our Maker's Hands, From the lowest slaves to the highest kings. Those who bring harm without provocation to the least of his children are hated and accursed by the Maker."

I believe a couple of my above examples/references explain this as well.

1. A person could be the best person or sweetest child you ever know. A person who never hurt anyone and lived their lives nicely. But one day, by sheer accident, they do the smallest thing to show signs of magical power. And the Templars will rush in and take this person against his or her will and drag them off to the nearest Circle Tower.

2. Chantry law says that a mage who has passed the Harrowing cannot be made Tranquil. As the Harrowing is considered a test of trust; if you pass, you can be trusted. But the Templars often abuse the rite of tranquility on mages who had fled/tried to flee, spoken against their oppression, or anybody they were just a little wary of, even without proof. One could argue that these are isolated incidents--single or small groups of Templars who defy the rules but do not represent their faction as a whole. But when these incidents happen and come to light, there is no punishment at all for them. Like Ser Alrik, who tranquilized female mages so he could rape them. His justice had to come at the hands of a vigilante(Hawke). That said, the Templar Order, by definition, are supposed to protect mages from others, as well as protect others from mages. But they fail to do this, and are simply persecuting them over an accident of birth.

3. Most mages have never committed a crime in their lives. Partly due to their confinement, but most mages seem content to study their craft and would just like to have basic human rights. Go to a market and buy nice clothes, have a decent meal, have a little privacy, get married, have children, see their families. But when something goes wrong somewhere, the Templars crack down on all those who were uninvolved. When their own doctrine says not to.

So having magic, is not an offense or provocation. Yet the Templars see it as enough to make a person a 3rd class citizen.

Reason Three

"Those who bear false witness and work to deceive others, know this: there is but one truth. All things are known to our Maker and he shall judge their lies."

This reason relates almost solely to Lambert and his actions in Dragon Age: Asunder. Lord-Seeker Lambert Van Reeves is the leader of the Seekers and Templars and the second most powerful person in the Chantry aside from the Divine herself. The position he is in dictates that he should be an example for his lessers, so that they might do their jobs more valiantly. As is expected of any leader.

1. When the possibility of a cure for tranquiltiy came up. Lambert's first order to Evangeline was to murder Rhys, Wynne, Adrian, and Pharamond and cover up any trace of it. And there would have been a lie in place to justify why they did it.

2. When the First Enchanters were allowed to have a Conclave for the first time in over a year, with the permission of the Divine I might add, Lambert's response was to falsely accuse them of treason and arrest them, the ensuing battle causing the deaths of several innocent mages. The thing was, the only reason the Templars were allowed to keep mages under surveillance was because the Circle of Magi originally allowed it. There was nothing preventing them from splitting up when they decided to. Lambert's actions were clearly corrupt.

So yeah, the "leader" of the orders was the one committing treason, and laying false witness on others to support his agenda.

Reason Four

"All things in this world are finite. What one man gains, another has lost. Those who steal from their brothers and sisters do harm to their lifelihood and to the peace of mind. Our Maker sees this with a heavy heart."

I believe the entire concept of the Templars and Circle goes to this.

1. By imprisoning mages, Templars are robbing them of otherwise normal existences.

2. If a mage gives birth, the Templars steal their children and they usually never see them again.

3. On top of their persecution and condemnation of magic, the Chantry and Templars make a lot of money off of the goods mages produce. Enchanted weapons and armor, potions, and whatnot. It's almost like one of their biggest reasons is free labor to produce what makes them a lot of coin. Money that would rightfully belong to the mage who crafted said items.

In Closing

The point of this topic doesn't necessarily contribute to the "which side is right and which is wrong" arguments. Because both sides have good and bad.

The point is that the Templars and their leadership are completely hypocritical in the way they operate.

If they want to act for the sake of public safety or because of their own prejudices, or fears, that's one thing. They're wrong for hiding behind religion to strengthen their own agenda. Since barely anything they do is even dictated by that religion. To enforce their interpretation of one commandment, they're constantly breaking three others. And that's not really how religion should work.

By this definition, the Chantry, Templars, Meredith, etc, and Lambert would be heretics in the eyes of the Maker. People who pervert his laws and teachings for their own use.

Thank you for your time.

Note: This is a topic for peaceful discussion. Not a place for Pro-Mage and Pro-Templar groups to start a war over. It's an observation into the character of Templar order.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 02 octobre 2012 - 03:08 .


#2
Xilizhra

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There can be no peace.

However, while I'm reluctant to give anything related to the Chant of Light any credence for judging anything whatsoever, it's an intriguing analysis, and one that might be helpful in swaying people in-universe away from the templars.

#3
Shadow Fox

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Yeah this thread won't end well.

#4
Rinshikai10

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As long as we keep it civil then we should be fine.

#5
LobselVith8

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Xilizhra wrote...

There can be no peace.

However, while I'm reluctant to give anything related to the Chant of Light any credence for judging anything whatsoever, it's an intriguing analysis, and one that might be helpful in swaying people in-universe away from the templars.


If Alistair goes "Church of England" from the Andrastian Chantry and opposes Lambert, perhaps he may argue along these lines. Alistair and Anora are pro-mage, with mages and templars wanting the exact opposite of the other. I wonder how the Circle of Ferelden will respond to Lambert and his defection from the Chantry, especially if the Hero said the Circle should be free.

#6
Shadow Fox

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LobselVith8 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There can be no peace.

However, while I'm reluctant to give anything related to the Chant of Light any credence for judging anything whatsoever, it's an intriguing analysis, and one that might be helpful in swaying people in-universe away from the templars.


If Alistair goes "Church of England" from the Andrastian Chantry and opposes Lambert, perhaps he may argue along these lines. Alistair and Anora are pro-mage, with mages and templars wanting the exact opposite of the other. I wonder how the Circle of Ferelden will respond to Lambert and his defection from the Chantry, especially if the Hero said the Circle should be free.

Neither Alistar or Anora are pro mage Alistair admits several times he's uncomfortable with magic and Anora doesn't care.

#7
Cantina

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Let us not forget the Harrowing which is an idotic concept.

#8
Laura Jean

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The points here are very good. unfortunately hypocrisy seem to be a part of human nature. as also pointed out there are usually many others that are true belivers. from all I have see, I have not read Asunder, but Kirkwall seems to be the worst of the lot.

game wise in your first encounter with Anders is you start to debate the templar position with him. he will point out that there is nothing in the chant that requires mages to be imprision, I forget his exact words, and the chantry is the rule of men. This seems to be the basis for Anders hatred for the Templars. And if you have Carver with you, Carver will sarcastically suggest that the templars should know more about their religion the Anders does. it looks like Anders has studied the Chant as well as the rules for the circle.

#9
berelinde

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Actually, I'm hoping that the points addressed by the OP are covered in DA3... or at least mentioned in passing, since I have a feeling that the focus is going to shift away from the mage/templar conflict fairly early on. It would be satisfying to see a kind of reckoning, where Lambert's templars and others who have used the Chant as justification for their own power games are held accountable, but I would not expect it to get too much screen time. It's awesome as a topic for discussion, but it's tough to convert it to any kind of viable game dialogue or cutscene interaction. Unless the Maker himself appears and hits the templars with a big sign that says "DON'T!"

#10
LobselVith8

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Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

If Alistair goes "Church of England" from the Andrastian Chantry and opposes Lambert, perhaps he may argue along these lines. Alistair and Anora are pro-mage, with mages and templars wanting the exact opposite of the other. I wonder how the Circle of Ferelden will respond to Lambert and his defection from the Chantry, especially if the Hero said the Circle should be free.


Neither Alistar or Anora are pro mage Alistair admits several times he's uncomfortable with magic and Anora doesn't care.


I respectfully disagree. Both Anora and Alistair will agree to the mage protagonist asking for the Circle of Ferelden to be free; both ask Wynne to join the royal court because they want to improve the lot of mages; Alistair will even protect apostates from templars, as we see from "King Alistair."

#11
Shadow Fox

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LobselVith8 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

If Alistair goes "Church of England" from the Andrastian Chantry and opposes Lambert, perhaps he may argue along these lines. Alistair and Anora are pro-mage, with mages and templars wanting the exact opposite of the other. I wonder how the Circle of Ferelden will respond to Lambert and his defection from the Chantry, especially if the Hero said the Circle should be free.


Neither Alistar or Anora are pro mage Alistair admits several times he's uncomfortable with magic and Anora doesn't care.


I respectfully disagree. Both Anora and Alistair will agree to the mage protagonist asking for the Circle of Ferelden to be free; both ask Wynne to join the royal court because they want to improve the lot of mages; Alistair will even protect apostates from templars, as we see from "King Alistair."

Alistair maybe Anora however is just granting a boon I'll use the City Elf boon as my example she still cracks down on the city elves regardless of the Warden's boon .

#12
Sibu

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Irrelevant, Mages need to be constantly supervised.

Mages can destroy city blocks, control the mind of your entire family, summon demons that will betray your cause, experiment on your family because they are too afraid of death, even childrens with the power of magic will become puppets of a diabolical force that will turn your village into a zombie apocalypse scenario.

Mages want to be free? Fine, but that freedom better have a high price

#13
Cantina

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Sibu wrote...

Irrelevant, Mages need to be constantly supervised.

Mages can destroy city blocks, control the mind of your entire family, summon demons that will betray your cause, experiment on your family because they are too afraid of death, even childrens with the power of magic will become puppets of a diabolical force that will turn your village into a zombie apocalypse scenario.

Mages want to be free? Fine, but that freedom better have a high price


Most mages who are pushed to such lengths do so because the Templars push them towards those mehtods.


Not ALL Mages are dangerous, NOT all Mages want power or to even rule. Most mages just want the same freedoms as any other person with no magic.

It is not right to cage mages on an slim chance they may end up doing something bad.


The Circle is nothing more then an insitution to use Mages as pawns for the Chantry weither by means of wealth or to win a war. Cage an animal for too long and they became far more dangerous then one that has been free.

#14
Laura Jean

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Cantina wrote...

Sibu wrote...

Irrelevant, Mages need to be constantly supervised.

Mages can destroy city blocks, control the mind of your entire family, summon demons that will betray your cause, experiment on your family because they are too afraid of death, even childrens with the power of magic will become puppets of a diabolical force that will turn your village into a zombie apocalypse scenario.

Mages want to be free? Fine, but that freedom better have a high price


Most mages who are pushed to such lengths do so because the Templars push them towards those mehtods.


Not ALL Mages are dangerous, NOT all Mages want power or to even rule. Most mages just want the same freedoms as any other person with no magic.

It is not right to cage mages on an slim chance they may end up doing something bad.


The Circle is nothing more then an insitution to use Mages as pawns for the Chantry weither by means of wealth or to win a war. Cage an animal for too long and they became far more dangerous then one that has been free.


great points. many mages are still devout Andrestians that consider blood magic evil. in addidtion there are many mages that would be willing to hunt blood mages like Tahone that actively use blood magic for evil purposes or power grabs.

i don't if it bad desige on bioware's part or not but there is the Litany of Adrella (sp) that was used in DAO to negate some of the worst excess of the blood mage. why it is not use in Kirkwall is a mystery to me. as the Litany can be used by non mages if i remember correctly.

#15
Sibu

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Cantina wrote...

Sibu wrote...

Irrelevant, Mages need to be constantly supervised.

Mages can destroy city blocks, control the mind of your entire family, summon demons that will betray your cause, experiment on your family because they are too afraid of death, even childrens with the power of magic will become puppets of a diabolical force that will turn your village into a zombie apocalypse scenario.

Mages want to be free? Fine, but that freedom better have a high price


Most mages who are pushed to such lengths do so because the Templars push them towards those mehtods.


Not ALL Mages are dangerous, NOT all Mages want power or to even rule. Most mages just want the same freedoms as any other person with no magic.

It is not right to cage mages on an slim chance they may end up doing something bad.


The Circle is nothing more then an insitution to use Mages as pawns for the Chantry weither by means of wealth or to win a war. Cage an animal for too long and they became far more dangerous then one that has been free.


Stop using Kirkwall as a pretect to condem all the Templars. Mages are no saints and no matter how much they want to be free, as long as idiots as the following exists there is no chance for total freedom:

Jowan: No hunger for power,  hell, the templars of Ferelden were a little more gentle to the mages after the events that involve Gleam... and yet, this idiot goes  boom Blood magic! "becauses of the loves".

A children with no hunger for power and no contact with any templar almost destroyed a village with... zombies.

The Baroness killed little girls a la Elizabeth Batory and sealed their families in the Fade

What if Merril became an abomination and  beat Hawke?... she never cared for her friends or their safety, only her selfish need of knowledge disguised as a fake promise of rebuilding "her people". She is a selfish abomination that only cares about her needs like a spoiled brat, nothing more.

Zatrhian cursed generations of inocent humans for the actions of some horrible men a thousand years ago

One posessed little girl killed 70 villgers and her entire family... sure, Meredith was insane, a crazy old woman that had too much hate in her heart to be a good Templar, but she did had a point.

They can be free but they can't expect to live like normal people when just ONE blood mage can cause havoc in a Circle full of senior enchanters. You can't live peacefully with people that can curse your entire family, your grandsons and decendants for over a milenia.

You want freedom?... pay the price

#16
Laura Jean

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Sibu wrote...

Cantina wrote...

Sibu wrote...

Irrelevant, Mages need to be constantly supervised.

Mages can destroy city blocks, control the mind of your entire family, summon demons that will betray your cause, experiment on your family because they are too afraid of death, even childrens with the power of magic will become puppets of a diabolical force that will turn your village into a zombie apocalypse scenario.

Mages want to be free? Fine, but that freedom better have a high price


Most mages who are pushed to such lengths do so because the Templars push them towards those mehtods.


Not ALL Mages are dangerous, NOT all Mages want power or to even rule. Most mages just want the same freedoms as any other person with no magic.

It is not right to cage mages on an slim chance they may end up doing something bad.


The Circle is nothing more then an insitution to use Mages as pawns for the Chantry weither by means of wealth or to win a war. Cage an animal for too long and they became far more dangerous then one that has been free.


Stop using Kirkwall as a pretect to condem all the Templars. Mages are no saints and no matter how much they want to be free, as long as idiots as the following exists there is no chance for total freedom:

Jowan: No hunger for power,  hell, the templars of Ferelden were a little more gentle to the mages after the events that involve Gleam... and yet, this idiot goes  boom Blood magic! "becauses of the loves".

A children with no hunger for power and no contact with any templar almost destroyed a village with... zombies.

The Baroness killed little girls a la Elizabeth Batory and sealed their families in the Fade

What if Merril became an abomination and  beat Hawke?... she never cared for her friends or their safety, only her selfish need of knowledge disguised as a fake promise of rebuilding "her people". She is a selfish abomination that only cares about her needs like a spoiled brat, nothing more.

Zatrhian cursed generations of inocent humans for the actions of some horrible men a thousand years ago

One posessed little girl killed 70 villgers and her entire family... sure, Meredith was insane, a crazy old woman that had too much hate in her heart to be a good Templar, but she did had a point.

They can be free but they can't expect to live like normal people when just ONE blood mage can cause havoc in a Circle full of senior enchanters. You can't live peacefully with people that can curse your entire family, your grandsons and decendants for over a milenia.

You want freedom?... pay the price



We are not saying mages are saints but they are not rabid animals that need to be lock up without committing a crime except for being a mage. Which Many not all the Templars are more than will to exploit as a crime.

As for blood mages you do meet several that are not blood mage but want free of the circle, Ffeyniral, keeper Maratharine(sp), there were five mages, if you side with mages, that did not resort to blood magic. I would imangine several of the starkhaven mage that escape, terri for example were not blood mages.  In fact Anders hate blood mage like Tahone(sp) who actively seek blood magic and feel sorry for ones who fall into blood magic due to fear such as Ser Thrask’s daughter.

There are mages who do not turn to blood magic for example

Wynne – she fight a demon to protect her charge. (for those of you that gave Wynne blood magic in DAO that does not count)

First enchanter Irving – never gave in to Uldred’s blood magic and fought to keep his mind free

Niall – when to find the Litany of Adrella (sp) to save the circle from blood magic he died rather than become a blood mage

Anerian (sp) Wynne first apperentice became a great Dalish healer after he left the circle not a blood mage
Lanna(sp) - the keeper’s first never turned to blood magic

Bethany – dose not become a blood mage

Mage need training and self mastery. But this should be done in and environment that promote thoughtful self control not fear and loathing that can lead to demon possession and or suicide.

Modifié par Laura Jean, 04 octobre 2012 - 06:37 .


#17
LobselVith8

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Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I respectfully disagree. Both Anora and Alistair will agree to the mage protagonist asking for the Circle of Ferelden to be free; both ask Wynne to join the royal court because they want to improve the lot of mages; Alistair will even protect apostates from templars, as we see from "King Alistair."


Alistair maybe Anora however is just granting a boon I'll use the City Elf boon as my example she still cracks down on the city elves regardless of the Warden's boon.


Anora, as Queen, initially gives the elves more freedom. It isn't enough, and I don't deny that, but she makes the effort as Queen. King Alistair takes the more controversial choice by actually giving the elves representation at court, I will concede, but I think people don't give Anora enough credit. She also asks Wynne to have a place at court, when a mage hasn't been at the court in years. Both Alistair and Anora have their particular strengths and weaknesses, which is why I think they are best together, making up for the others' flaws.

Sibu wrote...

What if Merril became an abomination and  beat Hawke?... she never cared for her friends or their safety, only her selfish need of knowledge disguised as a fake promise of rebuilding "her people". She is a selfish abomination that only cares about her needs like a spoiled brat, nothing more.


Merrill cared about the people she was with, she cared about her clan, and she cared about the People. Merrill only wanted to risk her own life in an effort to restore technology that might be able to irrevocably improve the lives of elves across Thedas. You make it sound as though the centuries of poverty and destitution that the elves have faced is no big deal. I respect that Merrill wanted to change that, and that she tried to do more with her life than simply punch people. Selfish? Dedicating nearly ten years to technology that baffled the Tevinter Magisters in an effort to help people  - some of whom have vilified her -  is hardly selfish.

#18
Shadow Fox

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LobselVith8 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I respectfully disagree. Both Anora and Alistair will agree to the mage protagonist asking for the Circle of Ferelden to be free; both ask Wynne to join the royal court because they want to improve the lot of mages; Alistair will even protect apostates from templars, as we see from "King Alistair."


Alistair maybe Anora however is just granting a boon I'll use the City Elf boon as my example she still cracks down on the city elves regardless of the Warden's boon.


Anora, as Queen, initially gives the elves more freedom. It isn't enough, and I don't deny that, but she makes the effort as Queen. King Alistair takes the more controversial choice by actually giving the elves representation at court, I will concede, but I think people don't give Anora enough credit. She also asks Wynne to have a place at court, when a mage hasn't been at the court in years. Both Alistair and Anora have their particular strengths and weaknesses, which is why I think they are best together, making up for the others' flaws.

Sibu wrote...

What if Merril became an abomination and  beat Hawke?... she never cared for her friends or their safety, only her selfish need of knowledge disguised as a fake promise of rebuilding "her people". She is a selfish abomination that only cares about her needs like a spoiled brat, nothing more.


Merrill cared about the people she was with, she cared about her clan, and she cared about the People. Merrill only wanted to risk her own life in an effort to restore technology that might be able to irrevocably improve the lives of elves across Thedas. You make it sound as though the centuries of poverty and destitution that the elves have faced is no big deal. I respect that Merrill wanted to change that, and that she tried to do more with her life than simply punch people. Selfish? Dedicating nearly ten years to technology that baffled the Tevinter Magisters in an effort to help people  - some of whom have vilified her -  is hardly selfish.

My opinion is  if Merril's care for her people overcame her selfish desire for knowledge,arrogance  and pride she would have listened to them when they repeatedly told her the cost wasn't worth the risk.

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 04 octobre 2012 - 08:48 .


#19
LobselVith8

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Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Merrill cared about the people she was with, she cared about her clan, and she cared about the People. Merrill only wanted to risk her own life in an effort to restore technology that might be able to irrevocably improve the lives of elves across Thedas. You make it sound as though the centuries of poverty and destitution that the elves have faced is no big deal. I respect that Merrill wanted to change that, and that she tried to do more with her life than simply punch people. Selfish? Dedicating nearly ten years to technology that baffled the Tevinter Magisters in an effort to help people  - some of whom have vilified her -  is hardly selfish.


My opinion is  if Merril's care for her people overcame her selfish desire for knowledge,arrogance  and pride she would have listened to them when they repeatedly told her the cost wasn't worth the risk.


Merrill wanted to stop the plight of the People. Her city brethern live in ghettos, and the People live as nomads without a home, hunted by the templars and vilified by the Chantry. Her clan wanted to do nothing to stop the plight of the People. I respect Merrill being proactive over their sloth.

#20
Shadow Fox

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LobselVith8 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Merrill cared about the people she was with, she cared about her clan, and she cared about the People. Merrill only wanted to risk her own life in an effort to restore technology that might be able to irrevocably improve the lives of elves across Thedas. You make it sound as though the centuries of poverty and destitution that the elves have faced is no big deal. I respect that Merrill wanted to change that, and that she tried to do more with her life than simply punch people. Selfish? Dedicating nearly ten years to technology that baffled the Tevinter Magisters in an effort to help people  - some of whom have vilified her -  is hardly selfish.


My opinion is  if Merril's care for her people overcame her selfish desire for knowledge,arrogance  and pride she would have listened to them when they repeatedly told her the cost wasn't worth the risk.


Merrill wanted to stop the plight of the People. Her city brethern live in ghettos, and the People live as nomads without a home, hunted by the templars and vilified by the Chantry. Her clan wanted to do nothing to stop the plight of the People. I respect Merrill being proactive over their sloth.

More like the Dalish for all there arrogance realize humans out number them 2 to 1 thus they become wanderers to avoid being wiped out for not comforming as an actual confrontation would be suicide.

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it but I'm with the Keeper in that some thing aren't worth the risk.

#21
LobselVith8

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Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Merrill wanted to stop the plight of the People. Her city brethern live in ghettos, and the People live as nomads without a home, hunted by the templars and vilified by the Chantry. Her clan wanted to do nothing to stop the plight of the People. I respect Merrill being proactive over their sloth.


More like the Dalish for all there arrogance realize humans out number them 2 to 1 thus they become wanderers to avoid being wiped out for not comforming as an actual confrontation would be suicide.

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it but I'm with the Keeper in that some thing aren't worth the risk.


The entire premise of the Dalish is that they are going to have a kingdom one day, and want to teach their city brethern everything they have lost. This is explicitly pointed out by the First Lanaya.

#22
Shadow Fox

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LobselVith8 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Merrill wanted to stop the plight of the People. Her city brethern live in ghettos, and the People live as nomads without a home, hunted by the templars and vilified by the Chantry. Her clan wanted to do nothing to stop the plight of the People. I respect Merrill being proactive over their sloth.


More like the Dalish for all there arrogance realize humans out number them 2 to 1 thus they become wanderers to avoid being wiped out for not comforming as an actual confrontation would be suicide.

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it but I'm with the Keeper in that some thing aren't worth the risk.


The entire premise of the Dalish is that they are going to have a kingdom one day, and want to teach their city brethern everything they have lost. This is explicitly pointed out by the First Lanaya.

That's they're belief they have to have something to give them hope even if reality continues to cruelly slap them around. It's no different then the Chantry's belief in the Maker.

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 04 octobre 2012 - 10:03 .


#23
LobselVith8

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Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The entire premise of the Dalish is that they are going to have a kingdom one day, and want to teach their city brethern everything they have lost. This is explicitly pointed out by the First Lanaya.


That's they're belief they have to have something to give them hope even if reality continues to cruelly slap them around. It's no different then the Chantry's belief in the Maker.


That's the goal of the Dalish. It's a little different than the religious beliefs of the Andrastians.

#24
eye basher

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People keep using merrill as the example of a good mage even when she asked a demon for help i mean the demon would help her out of the goodness of his heart he in no way planned to use this suckers body to make himself all powerful and kill everything that got in his way and that would've been her clan because that's the first thing he would've come across.

#25
Cantina

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Merrill (IMO ) is no way in hell a good mage. She made have had good intentions but going as far as she did reclaim old glory is just plain ignorance on her part. She did more damage to her clan then saving them. That sweet innocent act is just a cover up for how pathetic she really is.