[quote]The Grey Nayr wrote...
1. Templar powers are magic too. It may be artifically endowed, but the power to dispel magic is magic nonetheless.[/quote]
Templar magic also isn't connected to the Fade, no risk of possession and isn't tied to any connection to other worlds. A Templar's abilities (lore-wise) works only on mages and cannot leave that school, they cannot learn to bend reality or summon demons.
[quote]2. Being a mage doesn't automatically make a person evil.[/quote]
But that's not what Templar think, they simply wish to defend ordinary people by managing the risk. Being a mage doesn't make one evil but it certainly gives them a lot of power and influence over them, including the ability to become possessed.
It's not different than our ancestors managing plague victims, some were plagued and some were not but it didn't matter because the good of the many outweighed the few.
[quote]3. The Templars use their artificial magic to bully and persecute mages in a fashion that the above commandment in no way entails. Be imprisoned or die is not in the Chant of Light. Using the threat of their abilities to intimidate most mages into submission.[/quote]
When mages have supreme power over everyone, of course I'd mention that I can nullify magic to them and get them to comply with the Circle. The Circle of Magi was formed by mages to educate them, it serves exactly that purpose with Templar having a constant vigil to make sure none of them exploit their abilities.
The Mages were allowed to vote whether or not they wanted to stay in the Circles or not, they complied with the Chantry to co-exist and they were supplied fully (food, clothing, beds, education). I'd say they got the better end of the deal.
Mages who proved they were capable were even allowed the ability of leaving the Circles provided they checked in, look at Finn / Ines / Wynne.
[quote]4. The Maker in no way selected or entitled these men and women in the Templars to do this. They elected themselves, and proclaim it to be the will of The Maker.[/quote]
The Chantry elected the Templar into the role after the Mages/Chantry created the Circles, it's their duty to the Chantry and by association, the Maker.
[quote]5. Templars condemn the use of blood magic as heresy. Yet use it themselves to keep mages collared.(Phylacteries)[/quote]
But the Templar who uses the phylacteries cannot summon demons, cannot control other's minds, cannot sacrifice others to empower themselves, cannot be possessed. They're a difference in both types of abilities, risk being the crucial part.
[quote]1. A person could be the best person or sweetest child you ever know. A person who never hurt anyone and lived their lives nicely. But one day, by sheer accident, they do the smallest thing to show signs of magical power. And the Templars will rush in and take this person against his or her will and drag them off to the nearest Circle Tower.[/quote]
Where they'll be fed, given a warm bed, allowed to never work a day of his life, given an education and allowed to live away free from public prosecution with their peers. Aside from the Templar and never leaving, they're practically nobility.
[quote]*snip* One could argue that these are isolated incidents--single or small groups of Templars who defy the rules but do not represent their faction as a whole. But when these incidents happen and come to light, there is no punishment at all for them. *snip*[/quote]
Aside from Alrik, there's been no abuse of tranquility. Grace and her gang were spared tranquility despite being blood mages, Feynriel was spared tranquility for the longest time despite being plagued by demons, Alan is not made tranquil despite being a blood mage and having Crazy Meredith in charge at the time.
The only case we've seen of tranquil abuse was Alrik and punishment couldn't have occured because he was dead by the time you found out, Meredith and Elthina both refused his plans to tranquil the mages.
[quote]3. Most mages have never committed a crime in their lives. Partly due to their confinement, but most mages seem content to study their craft and would just like to have basic human rights. Go to a market and buy nice clothes, have a decent meal, have a little privacy, get married, have children, see their families. But when something goes wrong somewhere, the Templars crack down on all those who were uninvolved. When their own doctrine says not to.[/quote]
- Mages aren't content to study their craft until they're dragged to the Circle and given the abillity to.
- Mages can purchase goods, there's an entire fraternity devoted to currency and it wouldn't exist if there was nothing to spend currency on.
- Mages are supplied food, something which is a miracle considering the average Thedosian citizen starves and worries about things like shelter and disease.
- They can get married provided the Chantry allows it. Marriage and Children are both worrisome for mages because they bring emotional ties which demons can exploit.
- Mages can see their families. Connor, Rowan (if Connor died), Finn and other such cases.
[quote]So having magic, is not an offense or provocation. Yet the Templars see it as enough to make a person a 3rd class citizen.[/quote]
Having magic by nature is a provocation, it places you in a position of abuse and risk.
And there's no such thing as "3rd class citizen" when modern world human rights don't exist.
[quote]1. When the possibility of a cure for tranquiltiy came up. Lambert's first order to Evangeline was to murder Rhys, Wynne, Adrian, and Pharamond and cover up any trace of it. And there would have been a lie in place to justify why they did it.[/quote]
Note: Don't know Lambert's reasoning, giving my own.
Because curing tranquility is a
stupid idea. Not only does it make Templar preventive measures useless, it makes the only source of income the Circle has nullified. How will the Circles provide food, shelter and education if they can't afford it. Money doesn't come from nowhere.
Hell, mages wouldn't want to cure tranquility either until the war is over as it'll likely be one of their main sources of income during the war effort.
[quote]2. When the First Enchanters were allowed to have a Conclave for the first time in over a year, with the permission of the Divine I might add, Lambert's response was to falsely accuse them of treason and arrest them, the ensuing battle causing the deaths of several innocent mages. The thing was, the only reason the Templars were allowed to keep mages under surveillance was because the Circle of Magi originally allowed it. There was nothing preventing them from splitting up when they decided to. Lambert's actions were clearly corrupt.[/quote]
1. The meeting was held behind Lambert's back, the Divine gave permission but not public acknowledgement. She showed mage sympathies and tried to distract Lambert while the meeting was going on, of course I'd assume something was going on.
2. Lambert wanted the conclave to stop, it only escalated because he wanted to arrest Rhys with evidence that he murdered Pharamond. Of course it was planted there by Adrian but it doesn't stop it being evidence, Wynne's refusal and the Enchanters fighting escalated the already high tension between both groups.
[quote]1. By imprisoning mages, Templars are robbing them of otherwise normal existences.[/quote]
Mages are by nature not normal, they cannot be treated like normal people.
[quote]2. If a mage gives birth, the Templars steal their children and they usually never see them again.[/quote]
I've given the reason why before but it's not like the child has a poor life, they're raised by the Chantry until magic potential is discovered and they're sent to the Circle of they're allowed to do whatever they please if no potential is shown (though they most likely join the Chantry).
[quote]3. On top of their persecution and condemnation of magic, the Chantry and Templars make a lot of money off of the goods mages produce. Enchanted weapons and armor, potions, and whatnot. It's almost like one of their biggest reasons is free labor to produce what makes them a lot of coin. Money that would rightfully belong to the mage who crafted said items.[/quote]
Mages who produce the goods keep their money, Lucrosians exist for this purpose.
Tranquil who remain in the Circle (they're allowed to leave if they want to) don't, as it's what supplies the Circle in the first place.
Modifié par Dave of Canada, 09 octobre 2012 - 11:13 .
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