About discovering prothean weapon?Random Jerkface wrote...
To be fair, Liara said it herself. I always took that line on Mars as a tacit apology from the writers.Maxster_ wrote...
2(or 5) years in not enough to come up some not retarded idea? Please
SOUNDS LIKE THE WRITING PROCESS TO ME."We've known about the archives for decades. Why now?"
"Process of elimination mixed with a little desperation."
I always thought that was like another pathetic excuse for asspull.Random Jerkface wrote...
SOUNDS LIKE THE WRITING PROCESS TO ME."We've known about the archives for decades. Why now?"
"Process of elimination mixed with a little desperation."
Maybe during that cycle the Reapers were incompetant like they were in Shepard's cycle. Every cycle they use the Citadel as a trap up until the Protheans sabotage this plan and give hope to the following cycle. When the Reapers finally arrive they don't bother to continue their strategy by retaking the Citadel and then shutting down the relays. I know this would make it impossible to travel in the third game, but they could have at least explained why the Reapers didn't continue with their strategy of taking the Citadel and shutting down the relays. With the Reapers no longer following their strategy, Harbinger's absence and dumbness, along with the generic appearance the Reapers receive in ME3 it's like we're not even fighting the same enemy depicted in the first two games. This followed by they decided to write in some super secret Reaper leader that was a complete a**pull and contradicts the Reapers we have seen in ME1 & ME2.Maxster_ wrote...
Yeah, sure. Because first thing they lost in a war was Citadel. And have no idea that it can control relay network, and have no access to it.Mcfly616 wrote...
The Crucible was first originated several cycles ago. It was not a Leviathan device nor a Reaper device...or a Catalyst device. It was later that the Citadel was added to the plans because one of the cycles determined it wouldn't be powerful enough on its own, so they designed it to use the Reapers technology against them.
As the Catalyst said, "you would not know them". He wasn't joking lol we wouldn't. They're just another race whiped from the records of galactic history. Probably a pretty advanced one.
And how conveniently, that all functionality and interface to use giand battery was built-in into citadel from the very beginning.
So we are designing a device, supposedly a weapon, with unknown function, that should interface with another unknown device, that have unknown function, unknown interface, unknown location, and no one knows if that even exists.
You clearly have no idea about engineering and programming. I'm not even talking about science and scientific method.
Modifié par Ownedbacon, 03 octobre 2012 - 10:06 .
Entire idea that scientist and engineers building something they don't know what it does, is retarded and uscientific anyway.Ownedbacon wrote...
Maybe during that cycle the Reapers were incompetant like they were in Shepard's cycle. Every cycle they use the Citadel as a trap up until the Protheans sabotage this plan and give hope to the following cycle. When the Reapers finally arrive they don't bother to continue their strategy by retaking the Citadel and then shutting down the relays. I know this would make it impossible to travel in the third game, but they could have at least explained why the Reapers didn't continue with their strategy of taking the Citadel and shutting down the relays. With the Reapers no longer following their strategy, Harbinger's absence and dumbness, along with the generic appearance the Reapers receive in ME3 it's like we're not even fighting the same enemy depicted in the first two games. This followed by they decided to write in some super secret Reaper leader that was a complete a**pull and contradicts the Reapers we have seen in ME1 & ME2.Maxster_ wrote...
Yeah, sure. Because first thing they lost in a war was Citadel. And have no idea that it can control relay network, and have no access to it.Mcfly616 wrote...
The Crucible was first originated several cycles ago. It was not a Leviathan device nor a Reaper device...or a Catalyst device. It was later that the Citadel was added to the plans because one of the cycles determined it wouldn't be powerful enough on its own, so they designed it to use the Reapers technology against them.
As the Catalyst said, "you would not know them". He wasn't joking lol we wouldn't. They're just another race whiped from the records of galactic history. Probably a pretty advanced one.
And how conveniently, that all functionality and interface to use giand battery was built-in into citadel from the very beginning.
So we are designing a device, supposedly a weapon, with unknown function, that should interface with another unknown device, that have unknown function, unknown interface, unknown location, and no one knows if that even exists.
You clearly have no idea about engineering and programming. I'm not even talking about science and scientific method.
Modifié par Maxster_, 03 octobre 2012 - 10:21 .
Ownedbacon wrote...
If the Catalyst had the resources built into the Citadel for synthesis and attempted it before but it failed, why not improve the experiment and try again? How do organics that are desperately using resources create a power source or device that is beyond what the Catalyst used for its attempts at synthesis?Zenor wrote...
For adding onto the blueprints part, I would also guess that it IS truly a battery that involves using three pre-built functions.
Synthesis was a failed attempt that the catalyst tried once. Maybe it's using the remenents of what was left and giving it the power to be activated.
008Zulu wrote...
It's basic engineering; You don't design or build something without knowing what it will do.
Sure MacGyver can build a nuke from a role of duct tape, 3 straws and a paper clip. But, each generation adding to it without knowing overall what the device is going to do or is capable of? That is worse than doing nothing.
Here's my idea; Huge frickkin space guns. Ezo can reduce a ships weight to virtually nil for FTL travel, same tech is used to make the weapons work. Build a giant gun that fires a slug 15 meters across, 15 meters long and weighing 3500 kilos. Fired at near relativistic speeds and that sucker will crack a planet in half.
Boom! One dead Reaper. High five, lets grab a cold one.
dorktainian wrote...
basically all the races banded together to build the universes biggest strap on. We all got shafted by it.
Stornskar wrote...
Maxter makes a great point - the functionality of the Crucible is inextricably tied to the Citadel; The Citadel is the FIRST thing that is taken out when the Reapers invade. The Protheans are the first cycle to learn how to prevent how to lose the Citadel at the outset ... so how can this design even begin when its interface is the first thing lost in the reaping cycle?
Obadiah wrote...
Obviously Shepard is some kind of key component for Synthesis to work. Husks are created with Reaper nanides, right? And there are Reapers everywhere because of the war.
Maybe that is what the Synthesis wave uses - the Catalyst directs the Reapers to program the nanides with a new Synthesis process (maybe collect Shepard's particles or energy as the wave hits them), and then the Synthesis wave blasts the nanides out of the Reapers and spreads them.
Modifié par Troxa, 04 octobre 2012 - 03:55 .
Troxa wrote...
Obadiah wrote...
Obviously Shepard is some kind of key component for Synthesis to work. Husks are created with Reaper nanides, right? And there are Reapers everywhere because of the war.
Maybe that is what the Synthesis wave uses - the Catalyst directs the Reapers to program the nanides with a new Synthesis process (maybe collect Shepard's particles or energy as the wave hits them), and then the Synthesis wave blasts the nanides out of the Reapers and spreads them.
Husks are genetically altered
Synthesis is sub atomic alteration
It would cause instability to the structure of the body so it collapses
Synthesis is impossible.
In order for synthesis to work, the magic beam must be able to determine the velocity and position of every sub-atomic particle in the galaxy, decide whether that particle is part of an organic living being or an inorganic self-aware construct, alter its position according to some greater 'framework' that develops working circuitry, and do so inside of a fraction of time too small to be measureable.
Thus, the derogatory term of "Space magic" which is rightfully directed towards the Synthesis ending. And then there's the quote from the writing team: "We didn't want it to be magic in space."
Even within the reference set of Mass Effect, there is no excuse for this impossible feat. The Crucible uses dark energy to do whatever it does; dark energy has the clearly defined properties of manipulating mass and inertia, and as a secondary effect of that, gravity. In no way can it spontaneously cause anything to transform into a metal.
Synthesis, therefore, must be rejected as being a lie; its only purpose for existing is to let the Reaper AI give Shepard another way to commit suicide.
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11152094/1
social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/355/index/12177927/1#12177927
Getorex wrote...
Troxa wrote...
Obadiah wrote...
Obviously Shepard is some kind of key component for Synthesis to work. Husks are created with Reaper nanides, right? And there are Reapers everywhere because of the war.
Maybe that is what the Synthesis wave uses - the Catalyst directs the Reapers to program the nanides with a new Synthesis process (maybe collect Shepard's particles or energy as the wave hits them), and then the Synthesis wave blasts the nanides out of the Reapers and spreads them.
Husks are genetically altered
Synthesis is sub atomic alteration
It would cause instability to the structure of the body so it collapses
Synthesis is impossible.
In order for synthesis to work, the magic beam must be able to determine the velocity and position of every sub-atomic particle in the galaxy, decide whether that particle is part of an organic living being or an inorganic self-aware construct, alter its position according to some greater 'framework' that develops working circuitry, and do so inside of a fraction of time too small to be measureable.
Thus, the derogatory term of "Space magic" which is rightfully directed towards the Synthesis ending. And then there's the quote from the writing team: "We didn't want it to be magic in space."
Even within the reference set of Mass Effect, there is no excuse for this impossible feat. The Crucible uses dark energy to do whatever it does; dark energy has the clearly defined properties of manipulating mass and inertia, and as a secondary effect of that, gravity. In no way can it spontaneously cause anything to transform into a metal.
Synthesis, therefore, must be rejected as being a lie; its only purpose for existing is to let the Reaper AI give Shepard another way to commit suicide.
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11152094/1
social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/355/index/12177927/1#12177927
The kid says "create a new kind of DNA". Ok, aside from the fact that the statement is asinine and totally misunderstands what the letters "DNA" actually stands for and what it means on a chemical level, that also suggests genetic mutation.
There is no reason that Shepard's bod is any more necessary for synthesis to proceed than any of the hundreds of thousands of freshly dead bodies laying all over the earth beneath them. A body is a body is a body and DNA is DNA is DNA.
Husks are, nevertheless, merely a form of synthesis. If the catalyst likes synthesis so much he can have them redo or rejigger the whole husk thing. Be better, less nasty and wrecking husk process giving the body loaded with a mishmash of organic and synthetic while leaving the brain intact. As advanced as the Reaper toasters supposedly are (and their tech and processes certainly indicate they are advanced) then simply doing the husk process better should be child's play. So simple a star child could do it.
Modifié par Troxa, 04 octobre 2012 - 05:38 .
More funny is that, they even don't know if they ever need that device(citadel) in the first place. They even don't know that this device they supposedly need - is citadel.Stornskar wrote...
Maxter makes a great point - the functionality of the Crucible is inextricably tied to the Citadel; The Citadel is the FIRST thing that is taken out when the Reapers invade. The Protheans are the first cycle to learn how to prevent how to lose the Citadel at the outset ... so how can this design even begin when its interface is the first thing lost in the reaping cycle?
More funny is that, they even don't know if they ever need that device(citadel) in the first place. They even don't know that this device they supposedly need - is citadel.
How can they ever know that they need another unknown device to interface with device they are designing?
Eh?Kabooooom wrote...
More funny is that, they even don't know if they ever need that device(citadel) in the first place. They even don't know that this device they supposedly need - is citadel.
How can they ever know that they need another unknown device to interface with device they are designing?
The Protheans apparently did know this, which means they probably learned about it through a previous cycle that knew it since the Protheans were largely unprepared for the Reaper arrival.
Well, i just can't headcanon such absurdity.But I agree with you, the concept itself is ridiculously absurd. It implies that a previous cycle knew about the Reapers, knew about the true function of the Citadel, and created the plans for the Crucible which were subsequently passed down to the Protheans. But, this would mean that they were even more advanced than the Protheans.
And not only that, but constructing the thing and getting it back to the Serpent Nebula to dock with the Citadel when the relay network was shut down would be quite the challenge.
For what it's worth, my headcanon logic on it is like this: The original designers of the Crucible DIDN'T know about the Catalyst - the Catalyst simply calls himself that because Shep does, and the Prothean VI erroneously refers to the Citadel as the Catalyst. All they knew was that the Citadel controlled the relay network, and that they would need to utilize the relay network to destroy the Reapers. Perhaps the original purpose was simply to destroy the relay network itself, rather than all synthetics, effectively slowing the Reaper offensive to a point that the organics could gain an advantage.
Modifié par Maxster_, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:04 .
So they learned that from previous cycle, but just before or right after reaper invasion, so they couldn't even gather fleets at citadel? How convenient.
Well, i just can't headcanon such absurdity.
As for your headcanon - well, there is no strong evidence that citadel can control real network.
Also, that implies that they were more advanced than the protheans.
Modifié par Kabooooom, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:53 .
I know.Kabooooom wrote...
So they learned that from previous cycle, but just before or right after reaper invasion, so they couldn't even gather fleets at citadel? How convenient.
Oh, so the Alliance discovers the Crucible blueprints on Mars, but just after the reaper invasion began? How convenient.
The ME story has numerous examples of that, and my example was direct from the story itself. The Protheans either discovered the true function of the Citadel themselves, or they learned it from the Inusannon. Since they didn't create the design of the Crucible themselves, and since you can't design a goddamn weapon with a critical component missing, it stands to reason that the original designers knew the true function of the citadel.
I meant that i completely ignored crucible refenreces in game. And also that is one of the reasons that i'm not playing it for a long time, nor planning to play it someday ever.Well, i just can't headcanon such absurdity.
So you prefer the alternative, which is far more absurd. Got it. It's also worth noting that the only thing I said which was headcanon was the last sentence or so. Everything else was outlined in the story of ME3. If you think that the Prothean VI knew that the Catalyst WASN'T the Citadel, then you need to pay attention to that dialog a bit more. And if any race prior to the Protheans knew it, then guess what? The Protheans would too by virtue of the fact that they didn't design the damn Crucible.
It's a somewhat sh*tty story, but that's what you're left with if you pay attention to it. Fill in the rest of the blanks yourself because Bioware isn't going to do it for you.
I'll clarify.As for your headcanon - well, there is no strong evidence that citadel can control real network.
Yes there is. Vigil explicitly says this, Javik implies it, and Saren shuts down the relays from the Citadel control panel such that the Fifth fleet couldn't enter the battle of the Citadel. Did you not play ME1?
I'm not saying that current cycle had no strong evidence. I'm saying, that those original designers had no strong evidence that citadel can control a relay network in the first place.For what it's worth, my headcanon logic on it is like this: The
original designers of the Crucible DIDN'T know about the Catalyst - the
Catalyst simply calls himself that because Shep does, and the Prothean
VI erroneously refers to the Citadel as the Catalyst. All they knew was
that the Citadel controlled the relay network, and that they would need
to utilize the relay network to destroy the Reapers. Perhaps the
original purpose was simply to destroy the relay network itself, rather
than all synthetics, effectively slowing the Reaper offensive to a point
that the organics could gain an advantage.
I meant original designers of the crucible.Also, that implies that they were more advanced than the protheans.
Who? The Leviathans? The Reapers? The latter are clearly more advanced than the Protheans, the former are debatable, but probably so.
Modifié par Maxster_, 04 octobre 2012 - 10:05 .
Guest_Sion1138_*
Thanks. I appreciate the compliment. Indeed, if you are a glutton for punishment there's more:Getorex wrote...
When do you start writing for Bioware? That little snippet of dialog absolutely belonged, ORGANICALLY belonged, in ME3. Hell, it would have handily fixed the problem of the endings as they were! We'd all be going into the end knowing that all this time we've been playing a farce rather than something we should take somewhat seriously. It is probably better, however, to hint into the farcicle nature of our endeavor a bit earlier in the game than in the third of a trilogy.
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