255 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Lazarus project is the most absurd thing in the ME series.

No, it's not.

[CronoDragoon]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Funny thing I can justify the Lazarus project to myself, I can't seem to justify the ending no matter how hard I try.

The endings are on a grander scale, but neither are really acceptable sci-fi developments.

[sammysoso]

There are so many things that are just absurd regarding the Crucible:

- Everyone keeps going on about how they have no idea what the Crucible does. How do you have the best engineers and scientists in the galaxy build something, see the schematics and put it together from scratch...and have no idea as to its function?

- How did no one clearly see that it was designed to attach onto the Citadel? It was an exact fit, all these smart people HAD to have noticed.

- The Prothean VI says that the various cycles built, and added to the Crucible. Assuming we're going with the idiotic "We don't know what it does" thing, then why in the world would you add to something that you don't know the function of in the first place?

- Who would build a machine that can perform three very different, massive universe altering properties? Why not decide what you want to do with it, then build the device? That's a massive waste of resources. And what's with the color coding?

- Why can the Crucible discriminate between Reapers and other synthetics in the Control ending, but not Destroy? The energy leads to the same focal point, and is channeled the same way, why is there a difference there?

- Regarding Destroy: What kind of machine works when you BREAK it?

This Ending-Tron9000 is one of the stupidest things I've ever encountered. And it's really disappointing to see from a series that started off so well in the making sense department. ME1 is really the only game you can call science-fiction. By the time ME3 came around we were firmly in the fantasy realm. Bleh.

[GreyLycanTrope]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Funny thing I can justify the Lazarus project to myself, I can't seem to justify the ending no matter how hard I try.

The endings are on a grander scale, but neither are really acceptable sci-fi developments.

True but I have enough wiggle room thanks to medigel and what I know about Cerberus' funding and opertaion style to allow me to headcanon a satisfying enough explination. This is my favoirte franchise I can be very lenient, but I draw the line at synthesis and the Catalyst. That's just too far even for me.

Ownedbacon wrote...

I could buy into the Lazarus project to me it was a little unnecessary since a coma could have given you the two year absence. But it didn't go too far out of the realm of believablility for the Mass Effect Universe.

Exactly.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 03 octobre 2012 - 01:45 .

[Maxster_]

This Ending-Tron9000 is one of the stupidest things I've ever encountered. And it's really disappointing to see from a series that started off so well in the making sense department. ME1 is really the only game you can call science-fiction. By the time ME3 came around we were firmly in the fantasy realm. Bleh.

Bad writing is bad writing for fantasy also. So no, ME3 goes somewhere else.

[grey_wind]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Lazarus project is the most absurd thing in the ME series.

I honestly find it less absurd than a giant talking psychic plant that spits out Asari commandos in full uniform with fully functioning weapons.

Mass Effect has always been a nice blend of fanatsy and sci-fi. As much as people like to pretend ME1 was hard sci-fi, it also had a lot of fantastical elements going for it.

But I do agree in regards to the Crucible: the problem with the endings is that they are so outside the lore and groundwork of rules the series established that they go merely from being fantastical sci-fi elements to full on magic, to an extent that completely breaks willing suspension of disbelief.

Modifié par grey_wind, 03 octobre 2012 - 02:02 .

[What a Succulent Ass]

^ I don't think anyone is under any illusion that ME1 was hard sci fi--at least, I've never seen anyone claim it is. ME1 was as soft as it gets.

[drayfish]

sammysoso wrote...

There are so many things that are just absurd regarding the Crucible:

- Everyone keeps going on about how they have no idea what the Crucible does. How do you have the best engineers and scientists in the galaxy build something, see the schematics and put it together from scratch...and have no idea as to its function?

- How did no one clearly see that it was designed to attach onto the Citadel? It was an exact fit, all these smart people HAD to have noticed.

- The Prothean VI says that the various cycles built, and added to the Crucible. Assuming we're going with the idiotic "We don't know what it does" thing, then why in the world would you add to something that you don't know the function of in the first place?

- Who would build a machine that can perform three very different, massive universe altering properties? Why not decide what you want to do with it, then build the device? That's a massive waste of resources. And what's with the color coding?

- Why can the Crucible discriminate between Reapers and other synthetics in the Control ending, but not Destroy? The energy leads to the same focal point, and is channeled the same way, why is there a difference there?

- Regarding Destroy: What kind of machine works when you BREAK it?

This Ending-Tron9000 is one of the stupidest things I've ever encountered. And it's really disappointing to see from a series that started off so well in the making sense department. ME1 is really the only game you can call science-fiction. By the time ME3 came around we were firmly in the fantasy realm. Bleh.

'Um... Sir, I'm here from the Crucible project. We've, um, we've got some reservations we thought we should mention to you guys in the military.'
 
'Is it done? Have you built it yet?'
 
'Well, that's just the thing, sir. See, we've been putting it together and it's getting a little ...scary frankly.'
 
'But you're still building it?'
 
'Yes. But it's producing a whole lot of energy. Like, more energy than anyone has ever seen, ever. It's like some enormous battery or something. Way more power than should be possible.'
 
'Fantastic! A mysterious source of immeasurable, nonsensical power that no one - even the smartest people in the universe - can explain. This sounds great!'
 
'Well... see, that' the thing, sir. We were all kind of thinking... I mean, we know that the Reapers use technology as traps, don't we?'
 
'Yes indeedy. Remember all that stuff with the Citadel. Big old trap.'
 
'That's right, sir. And the Mass Effect relays.'
 
'Absolutely. And all that indoctrinating, and turning people into husks and stuff.   Don't forget all that.'
 
'That's right, sir. Exactly. That's exactly my point. I mean, it's pretty safe to say that every time - in the entire history of the galaxy - every time that we've discovered a new, inexplicable piece of technology, it's turned out horribly, nightmarishly bad for all life. Just terrifyingly bad, yes?'
 
'Oh yeah. And those Collector guys too, they were all Reaper controlled, weren't they?'
 
'Yes, sir. They were. I mean, you would agree that we've fallen for Reaper traps before, wouldn't you?'
 
'Oh sure. Yeah, absolutely. Caught us with our pants down plenty of times. Made a right joke of our intelligence gathering.'
 
'...Right. So where did we find the plans for this new, monstrous piece of unexplainable technology again?'
 
'In a hole, son.'
 
'Yes.'
 
'Yep. Found it in a hole. And the funny things is - you'll never guess - we'd already looked there once before, and found nothing. Can you believe that? What a bunch of duffers we were then, eh?'
 
'...Yes. And you don't think that it was all a bit too easy, sir? A bit too convenient?'
 
'What? What's all this? "Easy"? You think it's easy? We've had to get all you eggheads in here to build it -'
 
'Actually, it's suspiciously easy to build, sir.'
 
'We've had to get resources -'
 
'All of which are suspiciously easy to find.'
 
'We've had to hide out here in the middle of nowhere -'
 
'Actually, the Reapers are everywhere, sir, with foresight and wisdom that dwarfs our comprehension, and yet they are quite happy – suspiciously happy – for us to hang out here in space and keep building whatever this enormous, practically indefensible thing is...'
 
'No. No, this is quite the plan we have running here.'
 
'It's just, some of our people think it might actually be capable of mind control, sir. A couple of the guys are pretty sure it can do weird stuff to DNA...'
 
'Pfft. That sounds like the kind of tricks Reapers get up to.'
 
'Exactly, sir. Precisely. So with that in mind, are you sure we shouldn't do a bit more research before we switch it on? It seems like if it were a Reaper device - like everything we've ever come across usually is - it might be pretty bad for us in the long run...'
 
'Nope. That's enough of your technobabble, son. I don't know what you're getting at, but it's time to shut that questioning down. What is it that you don't understand? We're building a big scary device that we in no way comprehend, aided by the fact that the Reapers clearly don't mind that we are putting it together, based upon plans that conveniently turned up (having never been heard of before), falling into our lap moments after our enemy started their invasion. ...Honestly, son, I can't understand what part of that is giving you the heebie jeebies.  Maybe if you had a little more experience in this man's army you'd stop with your crazy paranoia, and start obeying orders blindly. If it worked for the Trojans then it's good enough for us.'
 
'Well, actually, sir...'
 
'You're dismissed, Poindexter. So clear off. I've got some emails to send. There's a Nigerian Prince who needs our help, and I reckon if I send him the Alliance's bank details we could make a tidy profit.'

Modifié par drayfish, 03 octobre 2012 - 02:11 .

[iDeevil]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Funny thing I can justify the Lazarus project to myself, I can't seem to justify the ending no matter how hard I try.

The endings are on a grander scale, but neither are really acceptable sci-fi developments.

They can be, execution is the fundemental here.  There are many different types of Sci-fi under that umbrella too ie: Star Wars is a Space Opera.  Warehouse 13 is Steam Punk etc etc.  Sci-Fi is a big window, and ME very much fits into it.

[Lunch Box1912]

Ownedbacon wrote...



How could cycles randomly adding to blueprints for a device end up surpassing the Reapers' technological abilities, but they still fail to stop/defeat them? Even better is how this device was the salvation of many cycles and wasn't mentioned in beacons in ME1 intended to give warning of the Reaper invasion.

EDIT: formatting

Why… because some tool came up with it in the development of ME3 and decided to ram it down our throats... because there idea of an ending is so far more superior and better than their writing teams. That’s why…. Oh and it’s art.....enjoy!

[GreyLycanTrope]

grey_wind wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Lazarus project is the most absurd thing in the ME series.

I honestly find it less absurd than a giant talking psychic plant that spits out Asari commandos in full uniform with fully functioning weapons.

Mass Effect has always been a nice blend of fanatsy and sci-fi. As much as people like to pretend ME1 was hard sci-fi, it also had a lot of fantastical elements going for it.

But I do agree in regards to the Crucible: the problem with the endings is that they are so outside the lore and groundwork of rules the series established that they go merely from being fantastical sci-fi elements to full on magic, to an extent that completely breaks willing suspension of disbelief.

I can acutally justify the Thorian and uniformed commando clones to myself as well

[sammysoso]

@drayfish

That was brilliant

[grey_wind]

Random Jerkface wrote...

^ I don't think anyone is under any illusion that ME1 was hard sci fi--at least, I've never seen anyone claim it is. ME1 was as soft as it gets.

I should rephrase that: I meant ME1 was somehow harder sci-fi than ME2 and ME3 pre-endings. It definitely is by a slight margin, but nowhere near as much as some people pretend it is. 
And I've actually seen a few fans claim it is, which is absurd. Though you see it mostly in the "ME1 was a perfect game and can do no wrong" crowd.

Modifié par grey_wind, 03 octobre 2012 - 02:22 .

[Getorex]

Greylycantrope wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Lazarus project is the most absurd thing in the ME series.

I honestly find it less absurd than a giant talking psychic plant that spits out Asari commandos in full uniform with fully functioning weapons.

Mass Effect has always been a nice blend of fanatsy and sci-fi. As much as people like to pretend ME1 was hard sci-fi, it also had a lot of fantastical elements going for it.

But I do agree in regards to the Crucible: the problem with the endings is that they are so outside the lore and groundwork of rules the series established that they go merely from being fantastical sci-fi elements to full on magic, to an extent that completely breaks willing suspension of disbelief.

I can acutally justify the Thorian and uniformed commando clones to myself as well

Hmpf.  I never saw ME1 as "hard scifi".  It was always and inarguably soft scifi.  More a sci-fantasy rather than scifi.  Those who considered it "hard scifi" do not actually know what hard scifi is.

As soon as the mystically Asari pop into view you've left hard for soft.  As soon as you have various alien races having sex and sucking face you've left hard scifi for soft and squishy sci-fantasy.  When you have a magical power thing like dark energy (that is nothing like actual, real-world dark energy) you've headed into soft scifi land. 

Replace the spaceships and rifles with leather jerkins and swords and you get just another sword and sorcery game.  No one will argue DA is hard scifi.  So too you cannot make the argument for ME.  Same story, different clothes and weapons.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Not making the argument that ME was hard sci fi, but I can explain a fair chunk of the questionable content involved at least so that it's makes more sense within context of the universe.

[Someone With Mass]

They could have gotten away with something as simple as a device that could give Shepard and the rest access to the Citadel's more advanced systems, like the master control system for the mass relays.

Use the Reapers' own weapon against them to slowly wear them down.

No need for the dumbest AI in the history of everything to exist to begin with and no need to resort to blatant space magic.

Oh, right. There wouldn't be nearly as many action sequences with explosions and people dying for no good reason if they had done that and actually played smart instead of throwing away everything at a very risky gamble.

[iDeevil]

In the end I've never gotten why fans, on any side, try and devalue someone's opinion if a show, game, book, movie etc. If they think ME was hard Sci-Fi, more power to them. If they like and can rationalise the endings, good on them. If tey enjoyed the complete series, that's what they thought. Just like if people hated parts, the think the entire series is fantasy, thought the ending was absurd etc. no one has the 'right' opinion.

That being said, I'm not attacking anyone here because mostly peeps have been respectful but a comment or 2 have reminded me of this thats's all.

Personally I enjoyed the whole series, plot holes and strangeness an all. I don't need perfect, just fun.

[Maxster_]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Not making the argument that ME was hard sci fi, but I can explain a fair chunk of the questionable content involved at least so that it's makes more sense within context of the universe.

Crucible, as it presented in ME3, is unexplainable. Building a device with unknown function, supposedly a weapon which should interface with unknown device, with unknown interface, with unknown function, unknown location, and unconfirmed existance.

[GreyLycanTrope]

The Crucible is indefensible as far as I'm concerned.

[Getorex]

Maxster_ wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Not making the argument that ME was hard sci fi, but I can explain a fair chunk of the questionable content involved at least so that it's makes more sense within context of the universe.

Crucible, as it presented in ME3, is unexplainable. Building a device with unknown function, supposedly a weapon which should interface with unknown device, with unknown interface, with unknown function, unknown location, and unconfirmed existance.

Well put it like that and the crucible practically builds itself!

[CronoDragoon]

iDeevil wrote...

In the end I've never gotten why fans, on any side, try and devalue someone's opinion if a show, game, book, movie etc. If they think ME was hard Sci-Fi, more power to them. If they like and can rationalise the endings, good on them. If tey enjoyed the complete series, that's what they thought. Just like if people hated parts, the think the entire series is fantasy, thought the ending was absurd etc. no one has the 'right' opinion.

That being said, I'm not attacking anyone here because mostly peeps have been respectful but a comment or 2 have reminded me of this thats's all.

Personally I enjoyed the whole series, plot holes and strangeness an all. I don't need perfect, just fun.

I agree with the sentiment, but there's a difference between an opinion that is relative and an opinion that is demonstrably false. It is simply false that ME is hard sci-fi.

[iDeevil]

CronoDragoon wrote...

iDeevil wrote...

In the end I've never gotten why fans, on any side, try and devalue someone's opinion if a show, game, book, movie etc. If they think ME was hard Sci-Fi, more power to them. If they like and can rationalise the endings, good on them. If tey enjoyed the complete series, that's what they thought. Just like if people hated parts, the think the entire series is fantasy, thought the ending was absurd etc. no one has the 'right' opinion.

That being said, I'm not attacking anyone here because mostly peeps have been respectful but a comment or 2 have reminded me of this thats's all.

Personally I enjoyed the whole series, plot holes and strangeness an all. I don't need perfect, just fun.

I agree with the sentiment, but there's a difference between an opinion that is relative and an opinion that is demonstrably false. It is simply false that ME is hard sci-fi.

But does it really hurt anyone to let them think it's hard Sc-Fi?  It's not like they are saying the world is flat, and this isn't an academic environment.  If it was I'd be communicating much differently.

[Maxster_]

Greylycantrope wrote...

The Crucible is indefensible as far as I'm concerned.

Well i still cannot comprehend, how anyone could even come up with such utterly retarded idea.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Maxster_ wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

The Crucible is indefensible as far as I'm concerned.

Well i still cannot comprehend, how anyone could even come up with such utterly retarded idea.

Time restraints, ego, a blow to the head? Speculations.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 03 octobre 2012 - 03:30 .

[MegaSovereign]

Greylycantrope wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Lazarus project is the most absurd thing in the ME series.

I honestly find it less absurd than a giant talking psychic plant that spits out Asari commandos in full uniform with fully functioning weapons.

Mass Effect has always been a nice blend of fanatsy and sci-fi. As much as people like to pretend ME1 was hard sci-fi, it also had a lot of fantastical elements going for it.

But I do agree in regards to the Crucible: the problem with the endings is that they are so outside the lore and groundwork of rules the series established that they go merely from being fantastical sci-fi elements to full on magic, to an extent that completely breaks willing suspension of disbelief.

I can acutally justify the Thorian and uniformed commando clones to myself as well

They should have made the Asari Commandos naked....you know....for the sake of lore consistency.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 03 octobre 2012 - 03:34 .