21 réponses à ce sujet

[Aradeus]

 I can see how a solo thief would make use of backstabbing, but in a normal party of 6, it seems impractical to me, except for multiplayer where a person plays just the theif.

I am curious if there are people out there that use if often in single-player games with 6 party members.

[corey_russell]

For trivial encounters I don't bother, but I do often backstab an enemy's mage when I can. However, if there is only 1 thief in my party, then they concentrate on locks/traps, which means they can't backstab unless a friendly mage puts invisibility on them, which I do sometimes. So therefore, only do the backstab if having someone with a good stealth scores, like Coran.

Once in a while I do have a thief take out the boss at the end of the game by themselves with backstabs too.

[Gate70]

I've used it in parties of 6. Balduran's ship is a typical example where one or two fighters attack a level and a thief (Shar Teel, or Coran with strength gauntlets are best) adds a backstab when everything has targeted the fighters. Plenty of chance to move and hide to strike again too.

In a normal battle with all six characters active I don't usually bother as the micro-management is too much hassle when combined with casters.

[Matuse]

Backstabbing is difficult in BG1 because locks and traps have a much higher priority and there just aren't enough levels to put points into sneaking around. You can compensate for this somewhat by using the shadow armor and sneaky boots (much, MUCH easier to get in BG1 than 2).

I use backstabs occasionally, but with the plethora of outdoor maps and low sneak skills, there just aren't a lot of times when it's the best way to go.

In BG2, I turn into a backstabbing machine. Except for the initial battle where you step into it, my rogue will solo the entire planar prison by backstabbing everything (well, except the Warden, he sees through sneak, but once he's out of spells, he's completely gimp). Ditto the two mindflayer lairs, Chez Nalia, most of Spellhold, and lots of other places.

+3 or better weapons with 19 or better strength with an x5 backstab multiplier, and it's pretty rare to find anything that can survive even a single hit. On critical, really nothing survives unless it's immune to backstabbing period.

Modifié par Matuse, 03 octobre 2012 - 11:25 .

[Amberion]

Also if you're fighting a monster with low HP, backstab is kind of redundant, and if you're fighting a difficult monster, opening with a backstab can leave your rogue rather vulnerable. Also, if you're using backstab in the middle of a fight, there's always that risk of the monster deciding that pesky rogue is more annoying, and turning around and splattering him. So yeah, I don't usually use it, except to oneshot some poor mob just for fun.

[Jianson]

I use it a lot. Stealth early on is a high priority for my thief anyway (unless I have a Ranger that's a really good sneak), because I scout pretty much in all the areas.

I take out many tough enemies (skelly warriors, those four dwarven doom guards in DT, etc) by playing a 'pseudo solo' game where the thief does the job (repeated backstabs, hide around corner, etc.) and the rest of the party chills somewhere else.

Yes, my thief often needs to run (and sometimes needs healing afterwards) after the first backstab.

Modifié par Jianson, 03 octobre 2012 - 08:06 .

[ussnorway]

My Stalker had to use it a lot but the average thief doesn't need it... traps work better.

[Grimwald the Wise]

I've never been into traps. I'll have to try it some time. Used backsta bbing a lot, particularly in the vanilla game where it is great for ghasts so long as you run afterwards. True particularly in caves where archers aren't an option.

Modifié par Grimwald the Wise, 04 octobre 2012 - 04:24 .

[Francoprima]

I use backstabbing a lot, find it one of the most interesting weapons in the game. I even started a own-made-character a thief, to create a quadruple-backstabbing soldier with a Dagger of Venom. Together with Boots of Speed, it can put down a heavy mage. Of course, there are so many different ways to fight, but I love this sneaky stuff

[Pangaea]

Naturally trap finding and lock picking is the main priority, but since I played a multi-classed thief and had Imoen, I could focus the PC on other things. So I went with hide in shadows and move silently, and by the end-game I can basically hide and move around almost at will totally unseen. Only very recently have I started to backstab, and it's actually a lot of fun. Too often you have to rely on ranged weapons, so fights tend to get very similar, so to then move around and one-shot people is pretty fun. Despite being multi-classed, my character is up to 4x at the beginning of BG2, and that will deal serious damage almost no matter what. One time I had 51 damage. :eek:

Wish it was possible to search for traps while being hidden though.

[Jianson]

Wish it was possible to search for traps while being hidden though.

To do this, have a mage/bard cast Invisibility on the thief. Detecting and removing traps (or picking locks) will not break the invisibility. So you can do the thiefy work first, then break the invisibility and start looting and fighting (starting off the fight with a backstab is often a good plan).

Modifié par Jianson, 05 octobre 2012 - 10:14 .

[corey_russell]

Jianson wrote...

Wish it was possible to search for traps while being hidden though.

To do this, have a mage/bard cast Invisibility on the thief. Detecting and removing traps (or picking locks) will not break the invisibility. So you can do the thiefy work first, then break the invisibility and start looting and fighting (starting off the fight with a backtab is often a good plan).

I use this technique myself, in both BG 1 and BG 2. In vanilla BG 1, this tip is helpful to detrap Davaeorn's traps without triggering the fight, and also for clearing the 4 powerful traps just before the two skeletal warriors in the thieve's maze.

[Grond0]

It takes a little while for your thief to become visible after he stops hiding in shadows. You can use this window of opportunity to search for and disarm traps - I do this regularly on the traps in the Nashkel mines.

[Gate70]

Yep, I also use the slow emerge from shadows to remove traps from the three places mentioned (Nashkel mine bridge, Davaeorn and Skeleton Warriors in the thieves maze).

[Pangaea]

That's a very good idea actually, because I prefer to have other spells memorised than invisibility. However, if I'm just scouting an area it would be nice to be able to do that hidden without having to use an invisibility spell. Right now I'm trying to do both with a trap-thief and my main character, but that's of course not ideal if we come across foes and they see the unstealthed trapfinder.

Have taken quite a shine to backstabbing, though, and will use it a lot more in the future. Would actually be tempting to play as a pure thief in BG1 some day, to focus on locks, traps and stealth. That may be doable with enough levels when you take it into BG2.

[Matuse]

Going into BG2, you can trivially max out all skills as a pure thief...even a skill penalized one like bounty hunter/assassin.

Even a double classed multi could do it pretty easily. A triple might struggle a bit more, but you still get a TON of skillpoints.

[Pangaea]

Have put 125 into HiS and MS. Is there any point to increase it further?

Do we need more than 100 in trapfinding and lockpicking to get through BG2?

Basically wondering where it's most sensible to spend early points. Am a 2-classed thief and I see above it can easily fill out all skills, but what's best early on?

[Grond0]

100 is all you need in traps (both find and set), detect illusions and locks. Stealth is a bit different as there are major penalties to trying to hide in lighted areas, but you're probably better off getting some other skills up first.

Which ones depends on your game style. If you don't know where traps are then detect traps skill will make your life easier. Open locks means you don't have to ignore treasure (though mages with a knock spell can substitute for this). Set traps offers some nice alternatives for killing enemies directly. Detect illusions is quite powerful, but less straightforward to get use out of.

[Pangaea]

Thanks. Due to events and people I came across that shouldn't be talked about here seeing as it's the BG1 forum, I think putting the first 25 points on my PC into setting traps was a mistake. Am actually thinking about ShadowKeeping them into something different. I never use that feature anyway. I could either start working on lockpicking on the PC, or on illusions. Are illusions detected by trapfinding or does it happen automatically?

Is 125 in hide in shadows and move silently enough? Had roughly the same in BG1 via the boots of stealth, and that worked quite well, but for all I know it could be different in BG2.

Good to know I don't need more than 100 in the 'normal' skills. Wondered if the thresholds were higher in BG2.

[Matuse]

Detect Illusion work while activating trapfinding.

In a vanilla install, Detect Illusion is only very minor in importance. If you use certain difficulty increasing mods (where spellcasters start using spell immunity), then it becomes crucial.

With uber-high sneaking skills, you can vanish in broad daylight. Once you get it to about 80, you'll be able to reliably hide in any dungeon environment. At 100, I'd just trickle points in, while focusing on other areas.

100 for Locks and Disarm Traps is fine. For the occasional trap where this isn't enough, you can swig a potion of perception or power to boost yourself. 125 would easily suffice for every single lock and trap in the game (except for ones where no score is enough).

Set traps never benefits for going above 100.

So, the ones you want to pump are Sneaking, Pick Pockets, and Detect Illusion. DI benefits going all the way up to 150. Pick Pockets has penalties attached depending on who you are trying to steal from. Random commoners in the city are easy...the leader of the thieves' guild you will frequently fail with a score of 170.

But Pick Pocketing is pretty marginal in use. There are a handful of nice items you are guaranteed to get in the game by doing it, but mostly it's small amounts of coins, low end gems, stacks of non-magical arrows and the like. Nobles and city guardsmen can have scrolls (up to 8th level), but that is not common. Each game the random people will be re-assigned. If you look in the Dan Simpson BG2 walkthrough, it mentions an NPC in the bridge district who has a very nice scroll...but that was just for one playthrough. I've robbed that NPC dozens of times, and he's had something different in each game.

Modifié par Matuse, 07 octobre 2012 - 02:59 .

[Grond0]

Unless you've got mods restricting your use of thieving potions you can stack them - meaning you can maximise your pickpocket ability without having to put any points into this skill. I think about 230 will enable you to succeed against anyone in SoA, although there is always a 1% critical fail chance when pickpocketing. Don't go above 255 or you score will wrap around and start from zero again.

[Matuse]

Unfortunately, you can't pickpocket Adalon. Very annoying.