390 réponses à ce sujet

[Jadebaby]

A cross between DA: Origins and DA2 would be awesome! In that it's set out in list form, but the character actually voices what is selected.

Obviously that would require more voice-acting work and I wouldn't have thought it possible, but then I played SWTOR and the sheer amount of voice acting that went into that, why couldn't it work with DA3 also?

I must admit that I'm only playing DA: Origins now for the first time. And although I still prefer to have a voiced protagonist. The sheer amount of options it opens up when your dialog options are in list form is amazing!

Plus it's SO much easier to navigate when in list form, as opposed to a dialog wheel.

What do you think?

[KainD]

I even prefer a non-voiced protagonist for the variety it gives and for imagination.

[FINE HERE]

KainD wrote...

I even prefer a non-voiced protagonist for the variety it gives and for imagination.

Me too.

[Wulfram]

We're going to have a dialogue wheel, sorry.  And voiced protagonist

Modifié par Wulfram, 02 octobre 2012 - 05:21 .

[Fiacre]

While I prefer a non-voiced protagonist as well, I can live with a voiced (as long as the voice sounds good), but I do believe that list form is just better for navigation. And they could also make the paraphrases longer that way to try and avoid the problem of people not knowing what their character is going to say before he/she speaks.

[Jadebaby]

Wulfram wrote...

We're going to have a dialogue wheel, sorry. And voiced protagonist

C'mon... That's *so* Mass Effect... They should change it up more and seperate the two games. Make them more diverse. Like I said, as much as I prefer a voiced protagonist, DA: Origins is so much easier/better to converse with people.

I swear. The first game that incorporates the list display with a voiced protagonist is gonna get a big fat gold star from me!

____
A Fallout/Mass Effect hybrid. The thing that annoys me most about dialog wheels is that they have to summarize the response in a few words or less, and sometimes what your character says isn't actually what you thought it would be. At least with the list layout they can extend the summary so we know what our character is going to say. Or just voice it word for word like The Walking Dead.
____

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 02 octobre 2012 - 05:29 .

[Loaderini]

Please no icons in the dialog wheel this time!!

[Fiacre]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

We're going to have a dialogue wheel, sorry. And voiced protagonist

C'mon... That's *so* Mass Effect... They should change it up more and seperate the two games. Make them more diverse. Like I said, as much as I prefer a voiced protagonist, DA: Origins is so much easier/better to converse with people.

I swear. The first game that incorporates the list display with a voiced protagonist is gonna get a big fat gold star from me!

Doesn't Witcher 2 have a list? It's a bit different from DA:O's, but I'm relatively sure that the dialogue options were listed rather than in wheel format.

[MichaelStuart]

I think they should keep the icons and get rid of the paraverses.
I see no need for a worded summary when the icons work just as well.

[ManOfSteel]

Fiacre wrote...

Doesn't Witcher 2 have a list? It's a bit different from DA:O's, but I'm relatively sure that the dialogue options were listed rather than in wheel format.

Yes. Dialogue choices in TW2 are presented to you in a list.

[Jadebaby]

DoomHK wrote...

Fiacre wrote...

Doesn't Witcher 2 have a list? It's a bit different from DA:O's, but I'm relatively sure that the dialogue options were listed rather than in wheel format.

Yes. Dialogue choices in TW2 are presented to you in a list.

Oh.... Oh, but guess what? No female protagonist. Invalid candidate for my gold star

MichaelStuart wrote...

I think they should keep the icons and get rid of the paraverses.
I see no need for a worded summary when the icons work just as well.

OH NO!! That would be SO confusing!

[Dragoonlordz]

I agree with what Crusty said on this, descriptive not paraphrased. Removes the redundancy issue and resolves the confusion paraphrases causes. Alternative ideas heard is tooltip style full sentences on top of paraphrases but this does not seem as good an idea. Personally I think the dialogue wheel in DA2 felt out of place, specifically the style and design did not fit with fantasy visual format. It can be resolved by a redesign of wheel shape, colours and style including redesign of any tone expression. I prefer silent protaganist to voiced but I acknowledge that we are getting voiced in the next game so paraphrasing and visual dialogue style including the tone system needs to be improved (imho). I also prefer list format to wheel but for some reason the developers think console players dislike lists?

I am guessing OP is talking about something like this?



If replaced the full lines and/or paraphrased lines with descriptive terms of what action and stance will take in response it could work well in removing redundancy an avoid a lot of the confusion that paraphrasing causes.

[Arokel]

MichaelStuart wrote...

I think they should keep the icons and get rid of the paraverses.
I see no need for a worded summary when the icons work just as well.

The paraphrasing was very helpful for me in alot of cases.  Sometimes I did not want to use the special mage conversation option because of what it said.  Sometimes it helped me decided between letting my pc speaking or a companion.

In fact I would hope they would have a more detailed little summary.

[Jadebaby]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I agree with what Crusty said on this, descriptive not paraphrased. Removes the redundancy issue and resolves the confusion paraphrases causes. Alternative ideas heard is tooltip style full sentences on top of paraphrases but this does not seem as good an idea. Personally I think the dialogue wheel in DA2 felt out of place, specifically the style and design did not fit with fantasy visual format. It can be resolved by a redesign of wheel shape, colours and style including redesign of any tone expression. I prefer silent protaganist to voiced but I acknowledge that we are getting voiced in the next game so paraphrasing and visual dialogue style including the tone system needs to be improved (imho). I also prefer list format to wheel but for some reason the developers think console players dislike lists?

I am guessing OP is talking about something like this?



If replaced the full lines and/or paraphrased lines with descriptive terms of what action and stance will take in response it could work well in removing redundancy an avoid a lot of the confusion that paraphrasing causes.

Yes, exactly! Where did you find that? And I agree with what you said. But instead of special symbols for "mage talk" or "companion talk" they can just use brackets in the list like they did with the (Persuade) and (lie) options in DA: Origins.

So, for example,

1. Who wants to know?.
2. (mage) Yes, I am a mage.
3. (lie) No, I'm not a mage
4. Does it matter?
5. (companion) Would you like to handle this?

It's a rushed example but you get the point. I think that'd work better.

[AresKeith]

list form? How Primitive lol

[Wozearly]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

A cross between DA: Origins and DA2 would be awesome! In that it's set out in list form, but the character actually voices what is selected.

Obviously that would require more voice-acting work and I wouldn't have thought it possible, but then I played SWTOR and the sheer amount of voice acting that went into that, why couldn't it work with DA3 also?

Absolutely no reason it couldn't be done in principle, but the more money that's allocated to voice acting, the less there is for other areas. Its a case of balancing out whether the gain from that type of additional investment over DA2 would result in a better game than assigning the time to something else.

My real note of caution would be that SWTOR's voice acting was more impressive for its breadth rather than its depth. There were relatively few 'wow' moments, and those were primarily in the quest design rather than the dialogue design.

If that's the risk of expanding dialogue choices whose lines and responses all need additional voice acting, then even though I dislike the dialogue wheel I'd choose it as the lesser of two evils.

Of course, my personal preference would be that Bioware struck out the voiced PC entirely and returned to the Origins-like approach of a wider set of dialogue choices, but...yeah. Probably not going to happen now that the decision has been made to introduce a voiced PC to the franchise.

[Fiery Phoenix]

KainD wrote...

I even prefer a non-voiced protagonist for the variety it gives and for imagination.

I don't really care if we get a protagonist that is voiced. I know a non-voiced protagonist would mean more variety and such, but I doubt it's going to happen again.

As for the question at hand, I've said this a couple times before, but something like the dialogue "wheel" from Deus Ex: Human Revolution would be best. In reality, however, I don't expect them to deviate too far from the DA2 dialogue system, so it's probable that's what we're going to get.

[Fiacre]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I also prefer list format to wheel but for some reason the developers think console players dislike lists?

I've played both DA:O and DA2 on the 360, and now have DA:= for the PC and played the DA2 demo on it, as well as ME1, and... I fond list form superior on both platforms. Imho, the wheel simply sucks as a layout. It isn't really more practical when it comes to navigating -- I can't remember choosing the wrong option in DA:O by accident, it did happen when playing DA2, though. And the there's the lack of space for proper paraphrasing... I honestly don't see why they're so insistent on the dialogue wheel. I can see the advantes a vooiced protagonist gives, but the wheel? Nope.

[Jadebaby]

Agreed Fiacre. I really enjoyed it in Mass Effect 1 and 2. But after going back and playing games like Fallout and DA Origins now. I've come to realise how superior the list form really is in terms of depth of choice.

[Dragoonlordz]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Yes, exactly! Where did you find that? And I agree with what you said. But instead of special symbols for "mage talk" or "companion talk" they can just use brackets in the list like they did with the (Persuade) and (lie) options in DA: Origins.

So, for example,

1. Who wants to know?.
2. (mage) Yes, I am a mage.
3. (lie) No, I'm not a mage
4. Does it matter?
5. (companion) Would you like to handle this?

It's a rushed example but you get the point. I think that'd work better.

I photoshopped it like well over year ago back when these sort of discussions happened after DA2's release.

[Mary Kirby]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Agreed Fiacre. I really enjoyed it in Mass Effect 1 and 2. But after going back and playing games like Fallout and DA Origins now. I've come to realise how superior the list form really is in terms of depth of choice.

Okay, I have seen this argument a lot, and I think this requires clarification. You absolutely, categorically, did not get more choices in the Origins dialogue list.

Here's a typical Origins player hub:


There was a hard limit of six displayed player lines per hub. Any more than that would simply not appear. Questions (which sometimes could be asked repeatedly and sometimes removed themselves from the list after being asked) count toward the six option limit. Usually only one or two choices would actually advance the conversation, the questions would be answered and then would loop back to the same set of choices.

Here's the same hub written for DA2:


We have the same six line limit, however questions move to an investigate hub, and therefore do not count toward the total number of displayed choices. This actually allows us to have more player lines because we don't have to choose between letting you ask another question and letting you have another choice to advance the conversation.

Modifié par Mary Kirby, 02 octobre 2012 - 07:27 .

[Dragoonlordz]

From what I understand the reason they went down the paraphrasing route is not just limited to VO regarding amount said and redundancy of repeating entire lines ~read then said. It was also due to using the wheel feature itself limiting the space for text characters on the screen given the wheel is placed in the middle of the screen effectively halving the space they have for text on both sides of it. Lists allow more words and letters on a screen or TV. Which only leaves the redundancy issue and VO amount reads. Descriptive terms and phrases are a way to resolve both those issues that paraphrasing causes and full lines (imho).

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 02 octobre 2012 - 07:29 .

[oui_je_danse]

My inner bureaucrat is delighted by all the informative graphics being provided.

[Wulfram]

The problem with the wheel is it highlights the formulaic nature and artificiality of RPG dialogue choices, by making investigate options feel less like real choices, and by making the standard Nice, Neutral, Nasty choices into an explicit feature.

[zyntifox]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Snip*

I agree that the wheel does not take away the number of choices. It does however force, the way bioware seems to want to do it, the usage of shorter paraphrase due to the limitation of space and thus limits the given information about the substance of the dialogue. And it forces some people, assuming i am not the only one, to constantly reload the game due to misintepreting the paraphrase. However,  if Bioware comes up with a solution to show full lines with the wheel i would not have a problem with it.

Modifié par Cstaf, 02 octobre 2012 - 07:52 .