267 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

marktcameron wrote...
sorry but you don't make any sense at all no one buys a game because it has a little bit of  rpg elements in it.

Are you insinuating that I am picking up NBA 2k13 for some other reason?  (Because that doesn't make any sense at all)

Or do you feel that I do not find those games I listed superior because of said RPG features, and that they would have been lacking without them?


With respect to NBA 2k13, I simply would not purchase the game if it's MyCareer mode did not exist, however.

It's a great basketball game, but in general I don't find sports games worth my time as much anymore unless there's some sort of MyPlayer/Be A Pro type mode (or Be a GM, but 2k's Association mode just isn't quite my cup of tea).

[Icinix]

marktcameron wrote...

Icinix wrote...

marktcameron wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

DuskWarden wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

I still find the CoD statement to be rather telling. Folks playing CoD aren't even thinking of DA. How are you supposed to get their attention with a product that hasn't held their interest previously?

I play COD, I've bought all of them since COD3 and I still play MW2 online multiplayer and BO zombies. I think they're great fun. I'm also a massive fan of DA, all the FOs, NWN, TES and a couple of MMOs. The two markets are not mutually exclusive. They aren't even two separate markets. If a COD players wants to play a game like COD, guess what they do. Play COD. The idea of streamlining your game to appeal to another audience is silly.

To be fair, looking at it from another perspective, there are games that I play simply because they DO have RPG elements.  I played the first Gran Turismo simply because I liked the progression system of the game which I considered to be similar to many things I like in RPGs.  I felt that Deus Ex (arguably an RPG anyways) and System Shock 2 (same deal) were great games that started to genre blur FPS with RPG.

I'm eagerly awaiting NBA 2k13 since the "MyCareer" mode is basically an RPG sports game.  Even a game like NOLF 2 was enhanced simply by having elements of character progression to allow me to differentiate playthroughs and this idea that I'm defining a character that becomes more badass as I play the game.


Some of these games (NBA 2k13 in particular) are games I wouldn't pick up if said feature didn't exist at all.

sorry but you don't make any sense at all no one buys a game because it has a little bit of  rpg elements in it.

*raises hand*

...actually when I see a game like Prey 2 - I ignore it - get told it has a little bit of RPG in it - suddenly I'm following its progress.

Then your a delusional and i feel sorry for gaming and where it's headed.

Well - that escalated quickly.

Edit: Wait...breaking down genre walls in gaming in a bad thing?

Modifié par Icinix, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:13 .

[marktcameron]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

marktcameron wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

marktcameron wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

yeah they do. It may not be the only reason, but it can tip the deal.

No it cant.

Real marktcameron opinions:  "Consumers aren't swayed by a game's features."

lol you actually believe that having little bit of rpg elements sales the game now i know why bioware has gone to dirt thank you for making it easier to not buy da3.

Real marktcameron opinions:  "Upsettingshorts says RPG features increase the appeal of titles in other genres, such as NBA 2k13.  This means DA3 will be bad and BioWare is a bad company."

?????? are you on shrooms or lsd

[upsettingshorts]

marktcameron wrote...

Then your a delusional and i feel sorry for gaming and where it's headed.

Real marktcameron opinions:  "Games that blend features from different genres is a totally new thing that is entirely bad, appealing only to delusional individuals."

[Savber100]

Icinix wrote...

marktcameron wrote...

Then your a delusional and i feel sorry for gaming and where it's headed.

Well - that escalated quickly.

Edit: Wait...breaking down genre walls in gaming in a bad thing?

Fanboys. Fanboys never change. <_<


Marktcameron, knock it off with the insults. You're not endearing anyone to your points with that attitude. 

Modifié par Savber100, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:17 .

[Allan Schumacher]

To pour gasoline on the fire:

I have actually purchased games I wouldn't have (Saints Row The Third) simply because it had a co-op mode!

The game by myself just doesn't appeal to me. But playing it with my best friend leads to some freaking hilarious moments that we share. And some awesome moments.

My favourite was when there was a mission that we needed to assassinate some guy, and the cover was that I would pick him up as a helicopter pilot and he'd come out to the helipad. So I went in the civilian chopper and he came walking out, as my friend hid just over the ledge in an attack helicopter.

When the guy got into my helicopter, I got out and sprinted to the edge, base jumping off, as my friend came up in the helicopter and rocketed the entire helipad into oblivion. I am very sad we didn't actually record it for others to see.


I would have loved to see the look on that NPC's face XD

[upsettingshorts]

Icinix wrote...

Edit: Wait...breaking down genre walls in gaming in a bad thing?

He's the OP, and that is literally the whole premise of this thread.  Welcome.

[marktcameron]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

marktcameron wrote...
sorry but you don't make any sense at all no one buys a game because it has a little bit of  rpg elements in it.

Are you insinuating that I am picking up NBA 2k13 for some other reason?  (Because that doesn't make any sense at all)

Or do you feel that I do not find those games I listed superior because of said RPG features, and that they would have been lacking without them?


With respect to NBA 2k13, I simply would not purchase the game if it's MyCareer mode did not exist, however.

It's a great basketball game, but in general I don't find sports games worth my time as much anymore unless there's some sort of MyPlayer/Be A Pro type mode (or Be a GM, but 2k's Association mode just isn't quite my cup of tea).

Yea but many people would pick it up if MyCareer mode did not exist its  not the features but the game it self and the target audience its intended for.

[Vandicus]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

To pour gasoline on the fire:

I have actually purchased games I wouldn't have (Saints Row The Third) simply because it had a co-op mode!

The game by myself just doesn't appeal to me. But playing it with my best friend leads to some freaking hilarious moments that we share. And some awesome moments.

My favourite was when there was a mission that we needed to assassinate some guy, and the cover was that I would pick him up as a helicopter pilot and he'd come out to the helipad. So I went in the civilian chopper and he came walking out, as my friend hid just over the ledge in an attack helicopter.

When the guy got into my helicopter, I got out and sprinted to the edge, base jumping off, as my friend came up in the helicopter and rocketed the entire helipad into oblivion. I am very sad we didn't actually record it for others to see.


I would have loved to see the look on that NPC's face XD

Playing with friends can make nearly anything fun.

[upsettingshorts]

marktcameron wrote...

Yea but many people would pick it up if MyCareer mode did not exist its  not the features but the game it self and the target audience its intended for.

Real marktcameron opinions:  "A game itself and the features that make it up are completely different things that do not relate to each other."

[marktcameron]

Icinix wrote...

marktcameron wrote...

Icinix wrote...

marktcameron wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

DuskWarden wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

I still find the CoD statement to be rather telling. Folks playing CoD aren't even thinking of DA. How are you supposed to get their attention with a product that hasn't held their interest previously?

I play COD, I've bought all of them since COD3 and I still play MW2 online multiplayer and BO zombies. I think they're great fun. I'm also a massive fan of DA, all the FOs, NWN, TES and a couple of MMOs. The two markets are not mutually exclusive. They aren't even two separate markets. If a COD players wants to play a game like COD, guess what they do. Play COD. The idea of streamlining your game to appeal to another audience is silly.

To be fair, looking at it from another perspective, there are games that I play simply because they DO have RPG elements.  I played the first Gran Turismo simply because I liked the progression system of the game which I considered to be similar to many things I like in RPGs.  I felt that Deus Ex (arguably an RPG anyways) and System Shock 2 (same deal) were great games that started to genre blur FPS with RPG.

I'm eagerly awaiting NBA 2k13 since the "MyCareer" mode is basically an RPG sports game.  Even a game like NOLF 2 was enhanced simply by having elements of character progression to allow me to differentiate playthroughs and this idea that I'm defining a character that becomes more badass as I play the game.


Some of these games (NBA 2k13 in particular) are games I wouldn't pick up if said feature didn't exist at all.

sorry but you don't make any sense at all no one buys a game because it has a little bit of  rpg elements in it.

*raises hand*

...actually when I see a game like Prey 2 - I ignore it - get told it has a little bit of RPG in it - suddenly I'm following its progress.

Then your a delusional and i feel sorry for gaming and where it's headed.

Well - that escalated quickly.

Edit: Wait...breaking down genre walls in gaming in a bad thing?

Yup

[upsettingshorts]

marktcameron wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Edit: Wait...breaking down genre walls in gaming in a bad thing?

Yup

Please list all games you, marktcameron, would consider RPGs that do not blend with other genres.  

Better yet, define the RPG genre.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:24 .

[marktcameron]

you can't have it both ways you can't be a action rpg and a traditional rpg it just wont work you have to be one or the other.

[Icinix]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Edit: Wait...breaking down genre walls in gaming in a bad thing?

He's the OP, and that is literally the whole premise of this thread.  Welcome.

I didn't realise this thread was that extremist though.

marktcameron wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Edit: Wait...breaking down genre walls in gaming in a bad thing?

Yup

I would say there would be a very large number of games out there that you must loathe and detest then?

[marktcameron]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

marktcameron wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Edit: Wait...breaking down genre walls in gaming in a bad thing?

Yup

Please list all games you, marktcameron, would consider RPGs that do not blend with other genres.  

Better yet, define the RPG genre.

A role-playing game (RPG and sometimes roleplaying game[1][2]) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making or character development.[3] Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.[4]

[Icinix]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

To pour gasoline on the fire:

I have actually purchased games I wouldn't have (Saints Row The Third) simply because it had a co-op mode!

The game by myself just doesn't appeal to me. But playing it with my best friend leads to some freaking hilarious moments that we share. And some awesome moments.

My favourite was when there was a mission that we needed to assassinate some guy, and the cover was that I would pick him up as a helicopter pilot and he'd come out to the helipad. So I went in the civilian chopper and he came walking out, as my friend hid just over the ledge in an attack helicopter.

When the guy got into my helicopter, I got out and sprinted to the edge, base jumping off, as my friend came up in the helicopter and rocketed the entire helipad into oblivion. I am very sad we didn't actually record it for others to see.


I would have loved to see the look on that NPC's face XD

Subtle. Ha.


I do love allowances in games that give the player(s) freedom to play in ways that perhaps break away slightly from the norm. Although not quite full emergent gameplay (although that is something I wish every game had) - but just those situations where you resolve something in more than just a stock standard way.

I think allowing even small amounts of RPG elements to bleed through automatically starts to allow that kind of gameplay on a more regular basis.

[Allan Schumacher]

marktcameron wrote...

Yea but many people would pick it up if MyCareer mode did not exist its  not the features but the game it self and the target audience its intended for.

I think you're being inconsistent in how you're applying this.


I've stated straight up that 2k13 had gained a sale simply by adding this feature (earlier you stated that "no one" does this).  You're correct that many people would pick it up if MyCareer mode did not exist.

But given how they have only continued to grow the career mode more and more each of the last 3 seasons, I don't know if I'd say that I'm not necessarily a part of their target audience.

I'm sure they'd be quite understanding if I didn't purchase the game because they cut ou the MyCareer mode, but it's definitely a feature that draws in people that might otherwise not purchase the game.


There are plenty of good games that I don't buy, simply because they do not have features that appeal to me.  With MyCareer mode, NBA 2k13 is a game that has a feature that appeals to me.  Yes, I'd still not buy the game if the basketball mechanics itself was crap (though it's not perfect by any means) because the gameplay wouldn't be satisfactory and would take away from my experience playing MyCareer mode.


The ideas of character progression can certainly be an element that tips the scale for whether or not I do or do not purchase a game.  I don't buy games simply because they have character progression (there's a lot of games I just don't like), so you're right in that simply possessing an RPG like feature isn't enough to purchase the game.

But has anyone actually argued otherwise?  I must admit I'm starting to get lost with the direction of this conversation since I certainly wasn't indicating that I would buy ANY game simply because it had some RPG elements.

[Allan Schumacher]

Note: IMO attempting to define what an RPG must or must not be is not productive, since the quotation given is so unbelievably open to interpretation that it tends to not really go anywhere.

I'd rather this thread not get derailed THAT far.

[John Epler]

marktcameron, this is a discussion board.

Part of a discussion involves giving other people's opinions more of a chance than 'NOPE YOU'RE WRONG'. If you're not willing to do that, then I'd ask you recuse yourself from the thread.

[upsettingshorts]

nevermind

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:36 .

[Maclimes]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Better yet, define the RPG genre.

Thread death imminent. 

[Vandicus]

Maclimes wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Better yet, define the RPG genre.

Thread death imminent. 

Hitler?

[upsettingshorts]

Maclimes wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Better yet, define the RPG genre.

Thread death imminent. 

Any coherent answer he could give - given his position - would either be uselessly vague to the extent it was self-defeating, or impossibly narrow to the extent only a handful of games could ever qualify.  In this context it was a loaded question, and he went with #1.

(Option #3 would have been an incoherent answer)

Edit: Anyway, enough's enough.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:42 .

[Maclimes]

Vandicus wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Better yet, define the RPG genre.

Thread death imminent. 

Hitler?

Not exactly like Godwin's Law, no. But there's a prevailing trend on BSN that soon after an attempt to define the term "RPG", the thread will degrade to the point that it has to be locked. Happens WAY more often than you might think. (I, myself, have fallen in to this trap as well, I admit.)

Modifié par Maclimes, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:45 .

[Allan Schumacher]

I think Vandicus was just ensuring Godwin's Law was achieved since thread closure was "imminent."

In any case, things are getting a bit off topic now. So feel free to brings things back on course