343 réponses à ce sujet

[LucasShark]

Plain and simple: up until Bioware had to force the crucible into existance or relevance, the Reapers were never as strong as they claimed.  Period.

Where can I support this?  Right back in ME1 where all this started.

YES: Sovreign was the most powerful ship in the known galaxy at the time.  Yet: Vigil makes particular note about how even it could not storm the citadel on its own.  The battle of the citadel consists primarily of a battle against a massive Geth armada Sovreign brings along.  Yes Sovreign has a big gun, but that's about it.

The weakness of the reapers is also demonstrated in their grand plan and tactics: it is based on suprise and isolation, not outright warfare (which apparently got retconed somewhere).  The whole `we will darken the skies`quote was a BLUFF!  Yes they could do it litterally: but by attacking system by system, one or two at a time.  How do we know thisÉ  The Prothean campaign took centuries, CENTURIES!  Not the weeks or months that the currrent one does.  They are also implied on being dependant on their `farmed`civilizations not getting too far along, or taking their own technological path, as that would make them a threat.

Cut to ME2, and we find still more evidence to them being far weaker then they claim.  We both reverse engineer a weapon from Sovreign, and then use it to KO a reaper-built ship (the collector cruiser) in 2 shots.  And that`s a frigate versus a super-cruiser.  We see the Leviathan of Dis, which was killed in 1 shot from a planet-based weapon, a conventional planet-based weapon.

The Reapers got a massive shot of power-roids sometime at the start of ME3, and apparently some stupidity pills right along with it.  Their new tactics make no sense: why are they stomping about on planets godzilla styleÉ  All they are doing is making their own job harder.

Even within ME3, Reaper invulnerability faulters whenever it is required for dramatic effect, most notably use of a single shot from a Cain to destroy the `Hades canon`, which IS a reaper destroyer.

[David7204]

You need to learn to complain for the right reasons.

[LucasShark]

David7204 wrote...

You need to learn to complain for the right reasons.

I`ve got a lot of them, and I can list them for you, but if you are just here to disrupt, then sod off.

[David7204]

Some of the 'reasons' really amount to pretty much nothing. For example, a ground-based cannon took out a Reaper. Great. What you don't seem to think is important is that that cannon might well be big enough and powerful enough that it makes the guns of the allied fleets look like muskets in comparison.

[LucasShark]

David7204 wrote...

Some of the 'reasons' really amount to pretty much nothing. For example, a ground-based cannon took out a Reaper. Great. What you don't seem to think is important is that that cannon might well be big enough and powerful enough that it makes the guns of the allied fleets look like muskets in comparison.

Only it had to be built in the same time-frame we had, and we already have a paralel: the Hanar have ground-based weapons capable of preventing their own planets fall.

[Mcfly616]

Lol mmkay

[grey_wind]

I agree with this. To add to your points, the Collectors themselves prove that the Reapers cannot simply rely on brute force by introducing us to two important Reaper weapons: the Seeker Swarms, and the Plague on Omega.
Both of these would have been massive advantages for the Reapers in any other cycle, but ours actually had a chance to study them in a non-war torn environment and even produce countermeasures for them. Yet they're never brought up, and all the Reapers ever use is some variant of "Derpy derp LAZERZ!"

Then we have the Reaper IFF. When the Reapers would inevitably seize the Citadel and shut off the relay network (which they never do for some absurd reason), the IFF could have been the key to bypassing the lockdown and uniting the galaxy. But even that is never brought up except for a terrible joke by Sexbot EDI.

[Eterna]

Yes they were.

[LucasShark]

grey_wind wrote...

I agree with this. To add to your points, the Collectors themselves prove that the Reapers cannot simply rely on brute force by introducing us to two important Reaper weapons: the Seeker Swarms, and the Plague on Omega.
Both of these would have been massive advantages for the Reapers in any other cycle, but ours actually had a chance to study them in a non-war torn environment and even produce countermeasures for them. Yet they're never brought up, and all the Reapers ever use is some variant of "Derpy derp LAZERZ!"

Then we have the Reaper IFF. When the Reapers would inevitably seize the Citadel and shut off the relay network (which they never do for some absurd reason), the IFF could have been the key to bypassing the lockdown and uniting the galaxy. But even that is never brought up except for a terrible joke by Sexbot EDI.

I didn't even think of those: at every turn until ME3 they take the route of subderfuge, deception, weakening the enemy and operating via puppets and intermediaries... until they suddenly have to be galaxy conquerers.

[Bill Casey]

More like Hades Glass Cannon...
amirite?

[Eterna]

LucasShark wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

I agree with this. To add to your points, the Collectors themselves prove that the Reapers cannot simply rely on brute force by introducing us to two important Reaper weapons: the Seeker Swarms, and the Plague on Omega.
Both of these would have been massive advantages for the Reapers in any other cycle, but ours actually had a chance to study them in a non-war torn environment and even produce countermeasures for them. Yet they're never brought up, and all the Reapers ever use is some variant of "Derpy derp LAZERZ!"

Then we have the Reaper IFF. When the Reapers would inevitably seize the Citadel and shut off the relay network (which they never do for some absurd reason), the IFF could have been the key to bypassing the lockdown and uniting the galaxy. But even that is never brought up except for a terrible joke by Sexbot EDI.

I didn't even think of those: at every turn until ME3 they take the route of subderfuge, deception, weakening the enemy and operating via puppets and intermediaries... until they suddenly have to be galaxy conquerers.

I guess the extinction of the Prothean race was done through subterfuge. 

[Gruntburner]

Darn, I could have sworn I saw hundreds of reaper ships that looked like Sovereign appear in dark space at the end of ME2. But that can't be true, because if it were that would mean that there would be an entire fleet of ships that could essentially tear through most fleets single handed.

[LucasShark]

Eterna5 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

I agree with this. To add to your points, the Collectors themselves prove that the Reapers cannot simply rely on brute force by introducing us to two important Reaper weapons: the Seeker Swarms, and the Plague on Omega.
Both of these would have been massive advantages for the Reapers in any other cycle, but ours actually had a chance to study them in a non-war torn environment and even produce countermeasures for them. Yet they're never brought up, and all the Reapers ever use is some variant of "Derpy derp LAZERZ!"

Then we have the Reaper IFF. When the Reapers would inevitably seize the Citadel and shut off the relay network (which they never do for some absurd reason), the IFF could have been the key to bypassing the lockdown and uniting the galaxy. But even that is never brought up except for a terrible joke by Sexbot EDI.

I didn't even think of those: at every turn until ME3 they take the route of subderfuge, deception, weakening the enemy and operating via puppets and intermediaries... until they suddenly have to be galaxy conquerers.

I guess the extinction of the Prothean race was done through subterfuge. 

Um: IT WAS!

It took centuries, with them shutting down the Relay network, and carefully sweeping from system to system.  They used indoctrinated Protheans to infiltrate hold-outs and then shut down their defenses for them to arrive.  It took so long that Vigil was down to a few stasus pods.  Remember any of this?  This was specifically explained.

[LucasShark]

Gruntburner wrote...

Darn, I could have sworn I saw hundreds of reaper ships that looked like Sovereign appear in dark space at the end of ME2. But that can't be true, because if it were that would mean that there would be an entire fleet of ships that could essentially tear through most fleets single handed.

Except that would be counter to their purposes.  And all you have to do is force them to engage on your terms instead of theirs.  They can't trrack through FTL any more than anyone else can.

[Eterna]

Gruntburner wrote...

Darn, I could have sworn I saw hundreds of reaper ships that looked like Sovereign appear in dark space at the end of ME2. But that can't be true, because if it were that would mean that there would be an entire fleet of ships that could essentially tear through most fleets single handed.

Yup, the extinction of the Prothen empire wasn't accomplised via galatic conquest, it was achieved by Reapers wearing Prothean clothes and blending into Porthean society. 

They'd put poison in the Prothean leaders tea. Subterfuge!!!

[LucasShark]

Eterna5 wrote...

Gruntburner wrote...

Darn, I could have sworn I saw hundreds of reaper ships that looked like Sovereign appear in dark space at the end of ME2. But that can't be true, because if it were that would mean that there would be an entire fleet of ships that could essentially tear through most fleets single handed.

Yup, the extinction of the Prothen empire wasn't accomplised via galatic conquest, it was achieved by Reapers wearing Prothean clothes and blending into Porthean society. 

They'd put poison in the Prothean leaders tea. Subterfuge!!!

Are you being intensionally stupid?

[BrookerT]

Well, the only reason Sovereign was beaten was by its own stupidity and sarens weakness, as well as help from a race which died 50,000 years ago. We wouldn't have won otherwise

[Eterna]

LucasShark wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

I agree with this. To add to your points, the Collectors themselves prove that the Reapers cannot simply rely on brute force by introducing us to two important Reaper weapons: the Seeker Swarms, and the Plague on Omega.
Both of these would have been massive advantages for the Reapers in any other cycle, but ours actually had a chance to study them in a non-war torn environment and even produce countermeasures for them. Yet they're never brought up, and all the Reapers ever use is some variant of "Derpy derp LAZERZ!"

Then we have the Reaper IFF. When the Reapers would inevitably seize the Citadel and shut off the relay network (which they never do for some absurd reason), the IFF could have been the key to bypassing the lockdown and uniting the galaxy. But even that is never brought up except for a terrible joke by Sexbot EDI.

I didn't even think of those: at every turn until ME3 they take the route of subderfuge, deception, weakening the enemy and operating via puppets and intermediaries... until they suddenly have to be galaxy conquerers.

I guess the extinction of the Prothean race was done through subterfuge. 

Um: IT WAS!

It took centuries, with them shutting down the Relay network, and carefully sweeping from system to system.  They used indoctrinated Protheans to infiltrate hold-outs and then shut down their defenses for them to arrive.  It took so long that Vigil was down to a few stasus pods.  Remember any of this?  This was specifically explained.

I guess you're right. Look at their subtlety: 

[LucasShark]

Eterna5 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

I agree with this. To add to your points, the Collectors themselves prove that the Reapers cannot simply rely on brute force by introducing us to two important Reaper weapons: the Seeker Swarms, and the Plague on Omega.
Both of these would have been massive advantages for the Reapers in any other cycle, but ours actually had a chance to study them in a non-war torn environment and even produce countermeasures for them. Yet they're never brought up, and all the Reapers ever use is some variant of "Derpy derp LAZERZ!"

Then we have the Reaper IFF. When the Reapers would inevitably seize the Citadel and shut off the relay network (which they never do for some absurd reason), the IFF could have been the key to bypassing the lockdown and uniting the galaxy. But even that is never brought up except for a terrible joke by Sexbot EDI.

I didn't even think of those: at every turn until ME3 they take the route of subderfuge, deception, weakening the enemy and operating via puppets and intermediaries... until they suddenly have to be galaxy conquerers.

I guess the extinction of the Prothean race was done through subterfuge. 

Um: IT WAS!

It took centuries, with them shutting down the Relay network, and carefully sweeping from system to system.  They used indoctrinated Protheans to infiltrate hold-outs and then shut down their defenses for them to arrive.  It took so long that Vigil was down to a few stasus pods.  Remember any of this?  This was specifically explained.

I guess you're right. Look at their subtlety: 

You ARE being intensionally stupid: I made specific mention of how their tactics suddenly change in ME3 due to an injection of contrived power which was never there to begin with!  And their tactics are counter to their own purpose.

[Eterna]

LucasShark wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

I agree with this. To add to your points, the Collectors themselves prove that the Reapers cannot simply rely on brute force by introducing us to two important Reaper weapons: the Seeker Swarms, and the Plague on Omega.
Both of these would have been massive advantages for the Reapers in any other cycle, but ours actually had a chance to study them in a non-war torn environment and even produce countermeasures for them. Yet they're never brought up, and all the Reapers ever use is some variant of "Derpy derp LAZERZ!"

Then we have the Reaper IFF. When the Reapers would inevitably seize the Citadel and shut off the relay network (which they never do for some absurd reason), the IFF could have been the key to bypassing the lockdown and uniting the galaxy. But even that is never brought up except for a terrible joke by Sexbot EDI.

I didn't even think of those: at every turn until ME3 they take the route of subderfuge, deception, weakening the enemy and operating via puppets and intermediaries... until they suddenly have to be galaxy conquerers.

I guess the extinction of the Prothean race was done through subterfuge. 

Um: IT WAS!

It took centuries, with them shutting down the Relay network, and carefully sweeping from system to system.  They used indoctrinated Protheans to infiltrate hold-outs and then shut down their defenses for them to arrive.  It took so long that Vigil was down to a few stasus pods.  Remember any of this?  This was specifically explained.

I guess you're right. Look at their subtlety: 

You ARE being intensionally stupid: I made specific mention of how their tactics suddenly change in ME3 due to an injection of contrived power which was never there to begin with!  And their tactics are counter to their own purpose.

They attempt to wipe out all traces of past civillizations, you can't do that without a lot of destruction. And no, this "Contrived" power has always been their. We've just used contrived reasons to stop them. 

[grey_wind]

Gruntburner wrote...

Darn, I could have sworn I saw hundreds of reaper ships that looked like Sovereign appear in dark space at the end of ME2. But that can't be true, because if it were that would mean that there would be an entire fleet of ships that could essentially tear through most fleets single handed.

I know, right?
I mean, you see SO many Reapers in that final cutscene in ME2, that if you counted them their numbers would show how numerous they are, how the Reapers alone outnumber every ship in the galaxy put together, how there are a grand total of....


295 Reapers.

[LucasShark]

Eterna5 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

I agree with this. To add to your points, the Collectors themselves prove that the Reapers cannot simply rely on brute force by introducing us to two important Reaper weapons: the Seeker Swarms, and the Plague on Omega.
Both of these would have been massive advantages for the Reapers in any other cycle, but ours actually had a chance to study them in a non-war torn environment and even produce countermeasures for them. Yet they're never brought up, and all the Reapers ever use is some variant of "Derpy derp LAZERZ!"

Then we have the Reaper IFF. When the Reapers would inevitably seize the Citadel and shut off the relay network (which they never do for some absurd reason), the IFF could have been the key to bypassing the lockdown and uniting the galaxy. But even that is never brought up except for a terrible joke by Sexbot EDI.

I didn't even think of those: at every turn until ME3 they take the route of subderfuge, deception, weakening the enemy and operating via puppets and intermediaries... until they suddenly have to be galaxy conquerers.

I guess the extinction of the Prothean race was done through subterfuge. 

Um: IT WAS!

It took centuries, with them shutting down the Relay network, and carefully sweeping from system to system.  They used indoctrinated Protheans to infiltrate hold-outs and then shut down their defenses for them to arrive.  It took so long that Vigil was down to a few stasus pods.  Remember any of this?  This was specifically explained.

I guess you're right. Look at their subtlety: 

You ARE being intensionally stupid: I made specific mention of how their tactics suddenly change in ME3 due to an injection of contrived power which was never there to begin with!  And their tactics are counter to their own purpose.

They attempt to wipe out all traces of past civillizations, you can't do that without a lot of destruction. And no, this "Contrived" power has always been their. We've just used contrived reasons to stop them. 

Then explain this culling lasting all of a few weeks before "everyone is dying!" being declaired, while the Prothean cycle took centuries, and that is WITH the reapers having full control of the Relay network from day 1 and ideal conditions?

[Gruntburner]

LucasShark wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Gruntburner wrote...

Darn, I could have sworn I saw hundreds of reaper ships that looked like Sovereign appear in dark space at the end of ME2. But that can't be true, because if it were that would mean that there would be an entire fleet of ships that could essentially tear through most fleets single handed.

Yup, the extinction of the Prothen empire wasn't accomplised via galatic conquest, it was achieved by Reapers wearing Prothean clothes and blending into Porthean society. 

They'd put poison in the Prothean leaders tea. Subterfuge!!!

Are you being intensionally stupid?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

[LucasShark]

Gruntburner wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Gruntburner wrote...

Darn, I could have sworn I saw hundreds of reaper ships that looked like Sovereign appear in dark space at the end of ME2. But that can't be true, because if it were that would mean that there would be an entire fleet of ships that could essentially tear through most fleets single handed.

Yup, the extinction of the Prothen empire wasn't accomplised via galatic conquest, it was achieved by Reapers wearing Prothean clothes and blending into Porthean society. 

They'd put poison in the Prothean leaders tea. Subterfuge!!!

Are you being intensionally stupid?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

What nouanced responses I recieve:... /sarcasm.

[Maxster_]

If they are so strong they don't need entire citadel trap and shutting down relay network.
And that was hilariously illustrated in ME3, when they didn't even bother to come to a Citadel, and when they got it, they don't even bother to shut down relay network.

The Reapers got a massive shot of power-roids sometime at the start of ME3, and apparently some stupidity pills right along with it. Their new tactics make no sense: why are they stomping about on planets godzilla styleÉ All they are doing is making their own job harder.

That is a Massive Retardation Syndrome, a virus, which infected entire galaxy(reapers included) a few months before start of ME3.