343 réponses à ce sujet

[Maxster_]

MacNasty wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

MacNasty wrote...

One thing I recall hearing is that a single nuclear weapon would destroy a Reaper. Perhaps I heard this wrong, but the calculations put Dreadnought guns a lot lower than a nuke. Not to mention, didn't it say in game that the Reapers isolate and destroy, or bury, nuclear silos. Why not just ambush them with the nukes, in a situation where we could hide them and lure them into it? It wouldn't work forever, but that's only one way...

That was never stated and Ships, that use bombs with more impact then nukes, don't have them.

Wasn't by Bioware, someone did all the calculations, comparing dreadnought weaponry to the nuclear weapon dropped at Hiroshima. Perhaps he was wrong. But I'm fairly sure the force that is applied by a nuclear explosion is more powerful than what ships pack...

It was in ME2, also.

[Maxster_]

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
That means that they are pretty easily destroyed individually or in small groups. Using something that looks like tactic, instead of retarded Hackett fails(arcturus station, priority:earth).

Those kind of tactics aren't going to work.  You need multiple Dreadnoughts, or the equivilant of so to destroy a single Reaper.  Reapers don't travel alone.  They don't have supply lines to destroy.  They never get tired.  They have superior offenses and defenses.  They are not easily destroyed.  It's as simple as that.

That kind of tactics is actually a tactic, and not some retarded Hackett fails. Why they ever need to make every human military officer(and not only human) completely retarded?
There is a lot of tactics to counter the reapers, that we can learn and synthesise from lore.
That makes crushing defeat, that allies get, defeat not because of the enemy efficience and strength, but because of everyone being astonishingly dumb. That cheapens reapers, cheapens everyone else, and makes them all completely retarded.
If you are making story about crushing defeat and unconditional surrender, make it believeable.

Again...When is it ever shown the reaper are in small groups in any momet in the game but tuchancka and Rennock?
The force we faced in the end of ME3 was not a smal group.
Are you missing the point we are facing a fleet of reapers?

Their is never a tactic used in ME3 ageinst the  work for a prologe time that did not end up with more deaths for us then the reapers.
Every tactic can hold the reapers at bay, but not stop them.

You are missing my point.
I'm saying that there was completely no need to dumb everyone down and making ME3 retarded clowns show.

[dreman9999]

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
That means that they are pretty easily destroyed individually or in small groups. Using something that looks like tactic, instead of retarded Hackett fails(arcturus station, priority:earth).

Those kind of tactics aren't going to work.  You need multiple Dreadnoughts, or the equivilant of so to destroy a single Reaper.  Reapers don't travel alone.  They don't have supply lines to destroy.  They never get tired.  They have superior offenses and defenses.  They are not easily destroyed.  It's as simple as that.

That kind of tactics is actually a tactic, and not some retarded Hackett fails. Why they ever need to make every human military officer(and not only human) completely retarded?
There is a lot of tactics to counter the reapers, that we can learn and synthesise from lore.
That makes crushing defeat, that allies get, defeat not because of the enemy efficience and strength, but because of everyone being astonishingly dumb. That cheapens reapers, cheapens everyone else, and makes them all completely retarded.
If you are making story about crushing defeat and unconditional surrender, make it believeable.

Again...When is it ever shown the reaper are in small groups in any momet in the game but tuchancka and Rennock?
The force we faced in the end of ME3 was not a smal group.
Are you missing the point we are facing a fleet of reapers?

Their is never a tactic used in ME3 ageinst the  work for a prologe time that did not end up with more deaths for us then the reapers.
Every tactic can hold the reapers at bay, but not stop them.

You are missing my point.
I'm saying that there was completely no need to dumb everyone down and making ME3 retarded clowns show.

Dumb down? They had the reaper asan unbeatable force from th start. An fleet we have can do little to stop the reapers. Saying they did do a special tactic to stop the reaper is not dumbing it down, it show that a reaper fleet is an unstoppable force...Which was stated form ME 1. There is no tactic they can use to stop the reapers. There not many tactics they can use to stop the reapers...There is not a series of tactics in any form that can stop the reapers.

[dreman9999]

MacNasty wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

MacNasty wrote...

One thing I recall hearing is that a single nuclear weapon would destroy a Reaper. Perhaps I heard this wrong, but the calculations put Dreadnought guns a lot lower than a nuke. Not to mention, didn't it say in game that the Reapers isolate and destroy, or bury, nuclear silos. Why not just ambush them with the nukes, in a situation where we could hide them and lure them into it? It wouldn't work forever, but that's only one way...

That was never stated and Ships, that use bombs with more impact then nukes, don't have them.

Wasn't by Bioware, someone did all the calculations, comparing dreadnought weaponry to the nuclear weapon dropped at Hiroshima. Perhaps he was wrong. But I'm fairly sure the force that is applied by a nuclear explosion is more powerful than what ships pack...

The bomb ME use is 3 times more pwerful then nukes.

Modifié par dreman9999, 04 octobre 2012 - 12:03 .

[dreman9999]

Maxster_ wrote...

MacNasty wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

MacNasty wrote...

One thing I recall hearing is that a single nuclear weapon would destroy a Reaper. Perhaps I heard this wrong, but the calculations put Dreadnought guns a lot lower than a nuke. Not to mention, didn't it say in game that the Reapers isolate and destroy, or bury, nuclear silos. Why not just ambush them with the nukes, in a situation where we could hide them and lure them into it? It wouldn't work forever, but that's only one way...

That was never stated and Ships, that use bombs with more impact then nukes, don't have them.

Wasn't by Bioware, someone did all the calculations, comparing dreadnought weaponry to the nuclear weapon dropped at Hiroshima. Perhaps he was wrong. But I'm fairly sure the force that is applied by a nuclear explosion is more powerful than what ships pack...

It was in ME2, also.

That says the bomb we use is 3 times more powerful.

[RadicalDisconnect]

MacNasty wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

MacNasty wrote...

One thing I recall hearing is that a single nuclear weapon would destroy a Reaper. Perhaps I heard this wrong, but the calculations put Dreadnought guns a lot lower than a nuke. Not to mention, didn't it say in game that the Reapers isolate and destroy, or bury, nuclear silos. Why not just ambush them with the nukes, in a situation where we could hide them and lure them into it? It wouldn't work forever, but that's only one way...

That was never stated and Ships, that use bombs with more impact then nukes, don't have them.

Wasn't by Bioware, someone did all the calculations, comparing dreadnought weaponry to the nuclear weapon dropped at Hiroshima. Perhaps he was wrong. But I'm fairly sure the force that is applied by a nuclear explosion is more powerful than what ships pack...

I'd suggest you toss the nuke suggestion out the window.

A nuclear explosion in the vacuum of space is...underwhelming, to say the least. Without a pressure wave from the blast, the Reapers may treat it as nothing more than a firecracker. Oh wait, there isn't even a blast, since there's no air. Having energy is one thing, but delivering it in a manner that damages Reapers is a whole other matter. A nuclear explosion in space will just create a whole lot of radiation.

http://history.nasa....and/nuclear.htm

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 04 octobre 2012 - 12:18 .

[Maxster_]

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
That means that they are pretty easily destroyed individually or in small groups. Using something that looks like tactic, instead of retarded Hackett fails(arcturus station, priority:earth).

Those kind of tactics aren't going to work.  You need multiple Dreadnoughts, or the equivilant of so to destroy a single Reaper.  Reapers don't travel alone.  They don't have supply lines to destroy.  They never get tired.  They have superior offenses and defenses.  They are not easily destroyed.  It's as simple as that.

That kind of tactics is actually a tactic, and not some retarded Hackett fails. Why they ever need to make every human military officer(and not only human) completely retarded?
There is a lot of tactics to counter the reapers, that we can learn and synthesise from lore.
That makes crushing defeat, that allies get, defeat not because of the enemy efficience and strength, but because of everyone being astonishingly dumb. That cheapens reapers, cheapens everyone else, and makes them all completely retarded.
If you are making story about crushing defeat and unconditional surrender, make it believeable.

Again...When is it ever shown the reaper are in small groups in any momet in the game but tuchancka and Rennock?
The force we faced in the end of ME3 was not a smal group.
Are you missing the point we are facing a fleet of reapers?

Their is never a tactic used in ME3 ageinst the  work for a prologe time that did not end up with more deaths for us then the reapers.
Every tactic can hold the reapers at bay, but not stop them.

You are missing my point.
I'm saying that there was completely no need to dumb everyone down and making ME3 retarded clowns show.

Dumb down? They had the reaper asan unbeatable force from th start. An fleet we have can do little to stop the reapers. Saying they did do a special tactic to stop the reaper is not dumbing it down, it show that a reaper fleet is an unstoppable force...Which was stated form ME 1. There is no tactic they can use to stop the reapers. There not many tactics they can use to stop the reapers...There is not a series of tactics in any form that can stop the reapers.

Please tell me, why Alliance Defense Committee is completely retarded. Why Hackett is retarded, with failures like arcturus station and completely unneeded ground assault in priority:earth, ended with 100% casualties.
Why Harbringer shooting individual soldiers, while he could one-shoot entire beam offensive by using his main gun.
Why everyone so retarded, so they decided to build a device with unknown function, supposedly a weapon, that should interface with unknown device with unknown function, unknown interface, unknown location, and no one is even know it is ever existed or needed.

So almost everyone is dumbed down, unless you are saying they all were dumb from the beginning of ME1.

[Maxster_]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

A nuclear explosion in vacuum is...underwhelming, to say the least. Without a pressure wave from the blast, the Reapers may treat it as nothing more than a firecracker. Oh wait, there isn't even a blast, since there's no air. Having energy is one thing, but delivering it in a manner that damages Reapers is a whole other matter. A nuclear explosion in space will just create a whole lot of radiation.

http://history.nasa....and/nuclear.htm

Also this.
Modern nukes, and i think nukes at all, are not designed to be used without atmosphere.
Well, hard radiation also bad but not for reapers.

[dreman9999]

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

elitehunter34 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
That means that they are pretty easily destroyed individually or in small groups. Using something that looks like tactic, instead of retarded Hackett fails(arcturus station, priority:earth).

Those kind of tactics aren't going to work.  You need multiple Dreadnoughts, or the equivilant of so to destroy a single Reaper.  Reapers don't travel alone.  They don't have supply lines to destroy.  They never get tired.  They have superior offenses and defenses.  They are not easily destroyed.  It's as simple as that.

That kind of tactics is actually a tactic, and not some retarded Hackett fails. Why they ever need to make every human military officer(and not only human) completely retarded?
There is a lot of tactics to counter the reapers, that we can learn and synthesise from lore.
That makes crushing defeat, that allies get, defeat not because of the enemy efficience and strength, but because of everyone being astonishingly dumb. That cheapens reapers, cheapens everyone else, and makes them all completely retarded.
If you are making story about crushing defeat and unconditional surrender, make it believeable.

Again...When is it ever shown the reaper are in small groups in any momet in the game but tuchancka and Rennock?
The force we faced in the end of ME3 was not a smal group.
Are you missing the point we are facing a fleet of reapers?

Their is never a tactic used in ME3 ageinst the  work for a prologe time that did not end up with more deaths for us then the reapers.
Every tactic can hold the reapers at bay, but not stop them.

You are missing my point.
I'm saying that there was completely no need to dumb everyone down and making ME3 retarded clowns show.

Dumb down? They had the reaper asan unbeatable force from th start. An fleet we have can do little to stop the reapers. Saying they did do a special tactic to stop the reaper is not dumbing it down, it show that a reaper fleet is an unstoppable force...Which was stated form ME 1. There is no tactic they can use to stop the reapers. There not many tactics they can use to stop the reapers...There is not a series of tactics in any form that can stop the reapers.

Please tell me, why Alliance Defense Committee is completely retarded. Why Hackett is retarded, with failures like arcturus station and completely unneeded ground assault in priority:earth, ended with 100% casualties.
Why Harbringer shooting individual soldiers, while he could one-shoot entire beam offensive by using his main gun.
Why everyone so retarded, so they decided to build a device with unknown function, supposedly a weapon, that should interface with unknown device with unknown function, unknown interface, unknown location, and no one is even know it is ever existed or needed.

So almost everyone is dumbed down, unless you are saying they all were dumb from the beginning of ME1.

"Please tell me, why Alliance Defense Committee is completely retarded. "
Seen nothing like the reapers before...Remeber these are the same people who said"Reapers don't exsist" in ME2.

"Why Hackett is retarded,"
His plan to stop the reapers worked...Do not the flawin his plans.

" failures like arcturus station" 
Clearly they can't stop the reapers. Point me to someone who can.


"Completely unneeded ground assault in priority:earth"

The only way into the citadel is from the ground.

"ended with 100% casualties."
These are the reapers they are facing.

"while he could one-shoot entire beam offensive by using his main gun."
What he is using is his main guns, Harbinger and the reaper don't have kamehameha's.

"so they decided to build a device with unknown function, supposedly a weapon, that should interface with unknown device with unknown function, unknown interface, unknown location, and no one is even know it is ever existed or needed."

It well been comferm to be a weapon by Hacket, Liara, and Javik. It was planned and designed by races that had the full detail of the device.

[Punisher cork]

dreman9999 wrote...

Punisher cork wrote...

OP, I agree completely with you. The reapers are strong. But even when they had the advantage they wanted in the Prothean cycle, they still hit the citadel first, acquired info, shut down relays, wiped them out piece by piece. They used organics as cannon fodder, both for reasons of fear and they don't want to take massive losses. All their tools involve corrupting and indoctrinating. The prothean's had a great disadvantage because they had one set of tactics, according to Javik, that made them predictable. But STILL, still the protheans managed to create a small mass relay after freezing themselves, sneak in and alter the signal to deny them the next visit to the current cycle. They did that without the advantages of this cycle.

This cycle killed Soverign and delayed the harvest. We acquired the Thanix cannon, by the way it isn't the only one, turian developers copied and produced it, so its safe to assume its on most if not all turian dreadnoughts now. And since it was on the Normandy, a freighter, its possible its on many ships. Thats a massive blow to the reapers, who dominate space combat to be almost matched.

Also, in the codex, "miracle of palaven" resistance members snuck bombs aboard the reapers who were indoctrinating leaders and blew them up in the combined blast. Thats brilliant and effective and I wish I could have seen it.

The destroyer on Rannoch had the entire fleet hammering down on him. Now, in most Sci-fi, the "invincible factor" is usually the shield. "We can't bypass the shields! they're too strong" Until Jeff Goldblum and Will Smith send enough farmville requests to distract the processing power therefore lowering the shields so they can sneak in and... you get the idea. In ME3 its less believable because the reaper metal or whatever is so strong against everything shot at it. Bad news, everything breaks. Having a "near-invincible" hull for your ship is just bad writing. Everything has a weakness.

Even in the cutscenes the reapers don't evade the shots, they just wade into them, and thats just irritating. Even in the final battle that massive opening salvo, that would likely char earth, blows the leg off a reaper, doesn't kill it. You know what? Too bad, that many thanix cannons and other prototype tech would kill at least 10 full soverign class reapers in the opening wave along. And they don't try and dodge, thanks for making it easier. It was just the plot point of needing the crucible that we got this plot hole of an explination.

1. Killing one reaper, that took on a fleet , does not mean we can take on the entire reaper fleet conventionally when that fleet vastly out number us.

2.Thanix cannon need to be close to be effective ageints reapers.

3.Delay the reaper doesnot mean convetional victory being that this cycle did nothin gto prepare for them.

4.miracle of palaven does not mean we can defeat the reaper fleet, we lost massive amount of people for that victory.

5.The reaper metal was shown to be strong ageinst everything form ME1.

6.Thanix cannons need to close to be used.

2. Directly from ME3 Codexs, under Normandy Thanix magnetic Hydrodynamic cannon: "The molten metal accelerated to a significant fraction of the speed of light, solidifies into a projectile as it is fired, hitting targest with enough force to pierce any known shield or armor. Can fire every 5 seconds. The weapons small size allows it to be mounted on most fighters or frigates, it is now widely used by the alliance military."
I also see that guardian, javelin, thanix, can bypass kinetic barriers to some degree, but that doesn't say what it does to the material beneath it. Its not a full conventional victory, but its certainly not this invincible opponent. 

3. and part of 4: Direct from ME3 Reapers codex: "destroyers make up the bulk of the reaper fleet, research suggests they are created from those species that are not harvested to make capital ships." They're already down soverign, and then the few that were killed by shepard, and the miracle at palaven kills a few. The cost of harvesting this cycle would take several flawless cycles to balance back up. 
4. Miracle at palaven, you're already losing astronimical amounts of people, adding a few more to the bodycount to hurt the reapers is worth the cost. 

5. Yes, it was the strongest. But after soverign was blown to chunks. You had tons of companies scavenging for parts of the "geth technology". Thanix came from the weapons. While they were reverse engineering it they would have had to cut or dig into it, they'd find design flaws. The protheans didn't have a 3 year head start on studing a reaper corpse. 

Codex, reaper vulnerabilities: "reapers have experienced casualties in the battles across the galaxy. This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the reapers could be defeated." 
Also Destroyers shields are less formidable than a capital ship. It is possible for a single cruiser or many fighters to disable or demolish a destroyer if they get within range before they are themselves destroyed." 

My plan from this? Asteroids, not as offensive weapons, but mobile cover. Propel them and have the ships hide behind them to close the distance. Reaper weapons are precise and exact. Time wasted on cutting through multiple asteroids would give room for other ships to come closer and get the hits in. Also to turn faster they have to lower their mass, reducing their shield. Not a flawless plan, but better than whats working.  

There is a lot of information on the reapers in the codex. I suggest taking a look. 

[RadicalDisconnect]

Maxster_ wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

A nuclear explosion in vacuum is...underwhelming, to say the least. Without a pressure wave from the blast, the Reapers may treat it as nothing more than a firecracker. Oh wait, there isn't even a blast, since there's no air. Having energy is one thing, but delivering it in a manner that damages Reapers is a whole other matter. A nuclear explosion in space will just create a whole lot of radiation.

http://history.nasa....and/nuclear.htm

Also this.
Modern nukes, and i think nukes at all, are not designed to be used without atmosphere.
Well, hard radiation also bad but not for reapers.

You may be able to do some good damage to Reapers using nuclear IED's, but even then, how much of that energy can actually damage the Reapers? Are their kinetic barriers good against the overpressure of a nuclear blast? I'm pretty sure their shields can shrug off the shrapnel, but the thermal radiation may hurt them pretty bad, although it's only a brief flash of that.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 04 octobre 2012 - 12:36 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

LucasShark wrote...


YES: Sovreign was the most powerful ship in the known galaxy at the time.  Yet: Vigil makes particular note about how even it could not storm the citadel on its own.  The battle of the citadel consists primarily of a battle against a massive Geth armada Sovreign brings along.  Yes Sovreign has a big gun, but that's about it.

So Sovereign being unable to take on the entire Citadel fleet on its own somehow translates to the Reapers being unable to win via conventional victory?

I'm not sure what the basis for your conclusion is, OP. Every scene we are shown of Sovereign displays him as a powerhouse, regardless of whether or not he could handle the fleets solo.

The weakness of the reapers is also demonstrated in their grand plan and tactics: it is based on suprise and isolation, not outright warfare (which apparently got retconed somewhere).  The whole `we will darken the skies`quote was a BLUFF!  Yes they could do it litterally: but by attacking system by system, one or two at a time.  How do we know thisÉ  The Prothean campaign took centuries, CENTURIES!  Not the weeks or months that the currrent one does.  They are also implied on being dependant on their `farmed`civilizations not getting too far along, or taking their own technological path, as that would make them a threat.

Divide and conquer is simply an effective strategy. Being able to win in a straight out brawl does not change the fact that strategy and surprise can prevent losses. There is nothing to indicate that the Reapers' use of the Citadel trap is anything but another tool, albeit an extremely useful one, in their arsenal.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 04 octobre 2012 - 12:33 .

[dreman9999]

Punisher cork wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Punisher cork wrote...

OP, I agree completely with you. The reapers are strong. But even when they had the advantage they wanted in the Prothean cycle, they still hit the citadel first, acquired info, shut down relays, wiped them out piece by piece. They used organics as cannon fodder, both for reasons of fear and they don't want to take massive losses. All their tools involve corrupting and indoctrinating. The prothean's had a great disadvantage because they had one set of tactics, according to Javik, that made them predictable. But STILL, still the protheans managed to create a small mass relay after freezing themselves, sneak in and alter the signal to deny them the next visit to the current cycle. They did that without the advantages of this cycle.

This cycle killed Soverign and delayed the harvest. We acquired the Thanix cannon, by the way it isn't the only one, turian developers copied and produced it, so its safe to assume its on most if not all turian dreadnoughts now. And since it was on the Normandy, a freighter, its possible its on many ships. Thats a massive blow to the reapers, who dominate space combat to be almost matched.

Also, in the codex, "miracle of palaven" resistance members snuck bombs aboard the reapers who were indoctrinating leaders and blew them up in the combined blast. Thats brilliant and effective and I wish I could have seen it.

The destroyer on Rannoch had the entire fleet hammering down on him. Now, in most Sci-fi, the "invincible factor" is usually the shield. "We can't bypass the shields! they're too strong" Until Jeff Goldblum and Will Smith send enough farmville requests to distract the processing power therefore lowering the shields so they can sneak in and... you get the idea. In ME3 its less believable because the reaper metal or whatever is so strong against everything shot at it. Bad news, everything breaks. Having a "near-invincible" hull for your ship is just bad writing. Everything has a weakness.

Even in the cutscenes the reapers don't evade the shots, they just wade into them, and thats just irritating. Even in the final battle that massive opening salvo, that would likely char earth, blows the leg off a reaper, doesn't kill it. You know what? Too bad, that many thanix cannons and other prototype tech would kill at least 10 full soverign class reapers in the opening wave along. And they don't try and dodge, thanks for making it easier. It was just the plot point of needing the crucible that we got this plot hole of an explination.

1. Killing one reaper, that took on a fleet , does not mean we can take on the entire reaper fleet conventionally when that fleet vastly out number us.

2.Thanix cannon need to be close to be effective ageints reapers.

3.Delay the reaper doesnot mean convetional victory being that this cycle did nothin gto prepare for them.

4.miracle of palaven does not mean we can defeat the reaper fleet, we lost massive amount of people for that victory.

5.The reaper metal was shown to be strong ageinst everything form ME1.

6.Thanix cannons need to close to be used.

2. Directly from ME3 Codexs, under Normandy Thanix magnetic Hydrodynamic cannon: "The molten metal accelerated to a significant fraction of the speed of light, solidifies into a projectile as it is fired, hitting targest with enough force to pierce any known shield or armor. Can fire every 5 seconds. The weapons small size allows it to be mounted on most fighters or frigates, it is now widely used by the alliance military."
I also see that guardian, javelin, thanix, can bypass kinetic barriers to some degree, but that doesn't say what it does to the material beneath it. Its not a full conventional victory, but its certainly not this invincible opponent. 

3. and part of 4: Direct from ME3 Reapers codex: "destroyers make up the bulk of the reaper fleet, research suggests they are created from those species that are not harvested to make capital ships." They're already down soverign, and then the few that were killed by shepard, and the miracle at palaven kills a few. The cost of harvesting this cycle would take several flawless cycles to balance back up. 
4. Miracle at palaven, you're already losing astronimical amounts of people, adding a few more to the bodycount to hurt the reapers is worth the cost. 

5. Yes, it was the strongest. But after soverign was blown to chunks. You had tons of companies scavenging for parts of the "geth technology". Thanix came from the weapons. While they were reverse engineering it they would have had to cut or dig into it, they'd find design flaws. The protheans didn't have a 3 year head start on studing a reaper corpse. 

Codex, reaper vulnerabilities: "reapers have experienced casualties in the battles across the galaxy. This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the reapers could be defeated." 
Also Destroyers shields are less formidable than a capital ship. It is possible for a single cruiser or many fighters to disable or demolish a destroyer if they get within range before they are themselves destroyed." 

My plan from this? Asteroids, not as offensive weapons, but mobile cover. Propel them and have the ships hide behind them to close the distance. Reaper weapons are precise and exact. Time wasted on cutting through multiple asteroids would give room for other ships to come closer and get the hits in. Also to turn faster they have to lower their mass, reducing their shield. Not a flawless plan, but better than whats working.  

There is a lot of information on the reapers in the codex. I suggest taking a look. 

2. Directly form the codex....http://masseffect.wi...er_Capabilities
The kinetic barriers on a Reaper capital ship can shrug off the firepower of a small fleet. Weapons specifically designed to overcome shields, such as the Javelin, GARDIAN lasers, or the Thanix series, can bypass the barriers to some degree. The difficulty is getting close enough to use them -- the surface-mounted weaponry on Reaper ships, similar in principle to GARDIAN, presents an effective defense against organic species' fighters.

So thanix weapon are not the super reaper killer you think it is....
Added..http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/OculusThis counters those fighters.

3.That still means the reaper have more ships then we do. the max number of flag ships is 20000. That based on the number of cycle that may of happen. That 1 flagship per cycle.but destoery number can be higher because we don't have a number limit on races the galexy had.

4.You do realise we lost palven after that. 

5.READ POINT 2.  Nothing from sovergin improve defence and offence the ship has to getclose which is a danger zone.

6.Asteroids as cover does not work because any hold in space can be attacked in any dirction. Think 3d , not 2d. The reapers can attack from below, form the back and the top.
In space you can go around astrriods.

Modifié par dreman9999, 04 octobre 2012 - 12:41 .

[Maxster_]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

A nuclear explosion in vacuum is...underwhelming, to say the least. Without a pressure wave from the blast, the Reapers may treat it as nothing more than a firecracker. Oh wait, there isn't even a blast, since there's no air. Having energy is one thing, but delivering it in a manner that damages Reapers is a whole other matter. A nuclear explosion in space will just create a whole lot of radiation.

http://history.nasa....and/nuclear.htm

Also this.
Modern nukes, and i think nukes at all, are not designed to be used without atmosphere.
Well, hard radiation also bad but not for reapers.

You may be able to do some good damage to Reapers using nuclear IED's, but even then, how much of that energy can actually damage the Reapers? Are their kinetic barriers good against the overpressure of a nuclear blast? I'm pretty sure their shields can shrug off the shrapnel, but the thermal radiation may hurt them pretty bad, although it's only a brief flash of that.

Well, kinetic shield against kinetic weapons. So, if we hit them with a nuclear warhead, it just stops at shields. But if we detonate it then, - there will be a lot of hard radiation and high speed particles, which kinetic barries won't even notice.
Reaction to that hard radiation and particles i can't predict exactly, because it depends on a reaper internal structure and how well that structure is protected agains that.
I think, that it will pose no danger to a reaper, they are living in space anyway.

[RadicalDisconnect]

Maxster_ wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

A nuclear explosion in vacuum is...underwhelming, to say the least. Without a pressure wave from the blast, the Reapers may treat it as nothing more than a firecracker. Oh wait, there isn't even a blast, since there's no air. Having energy is one thing, but delivering it in a manner that damages Reapers is a whole other matter. A nuclear explosion in space will just create a whole lot of radiation.

http://history.nasa....and/nuclear.htm

Also this.
Modern nukes, and i think nukes at all, are not designed to be used without atmosphere.
Well, hard radiation also bad but not for reapers.

You may be able to do some good damage to Reapers using nuclear IED's, but even then, how much of that energy can actually damage the Reapers? Are their kinetic barriers good against the overpressure of a nuclear blast? I'm pretty sure their shields can shrug off the shrapnel, but the thermal radiation may hurt them pretty bad, although it's only a brief flash of that.

Well, kinetic shield against kinetic weapons. So, if we hit them with a nuclear warhead, it just stops at shields. But if we detonate it then, - there will be a lot of hard radiation and high speed particles, which kinetic barries won't even notice.
Reaction to that hard radiation and particles i can't predict exactly, because it depends on a reaper internal structure and how well that structure is protected agains that.
I think, that it will pose no danger to a reaper, they are living in space anyway.

I'm talking about roadside nuclear bombs for when Reapers are operating on a planet. Granted, I'm pretty sure they'll wise up after the first time it happens and just not land anymore.

[dreman9999]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

A nuclear explosion in vacuum is...underwhelming, to say the least. Without a pressure wave from the blast, the Reapers may treat it as nothing more than a firecracker. Oh wait, there isn't even a blast, since there's no air. Having energy is one thing, but delivering it in a manner that damages Reapers is a whole other matter. A nuclear explosion in space will just create a whole lot of radiation.

http://history.nasa....and/nuclear.htm

Also this.
Modern nukes, and i think nukes at all, are not designed to be used without atmosphere.
Well, hard radiation also bad but not for reapers.

You may be able to do some good damage to Reapers using nuclear IED's, but even then, how much of that energy can actually damage the Reapers? Are their kinetic barriers good against the overpressure of a nuclear blast? I'm pretty sure their shields can shrug off the shrapnel, but the thermal radiation may hurt them pretty bad, although it's only a brief flash of that.

Well, kinetic shield against kinetic weapons. So, if we hit them with a nuclear warhead, it just stops at shields. But if we detonate it then, - there will be a lot of hard radiation and high speed particles, which kinetic barries won't even notice.
Reaction to that hard radiation and particles i can't predict exactly, because it depends on a reaper internal structure and how well that structure is protected agains that.
I think, that it will pose no danger to a reaper, they are living in space anyway.

I'm talking about roadside nuclear bombs for when Reapers are operating on a planet. Granted, I'm pretty sure they'll wise up after the first time it happens and just not land anymore.

That just means they would bomb us form space more.

[The Spamming Troll]

but we could have stumbled across plans for something that has been passed down from cycle to cycle about a device that makes nukes not explore in no atmosphere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

right under our nose the whole time too.

its still written in klingon and nobody understands it, but hey whose paying attention to the story anyways.

[Maxster_]

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]Maxster_ wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]Maxster_ wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]Maxster_ wrote...

[quote]elitehunter34 wrote...

[quote]Maxster_ wrote...
That means that they are pretty easily destroyed individually or in small groups. Using something that looks like tactic, instead of retarded Hackett fails(arcturus station, priority:earth).
[/quote]
Those kind of tactics aren't going to work.  You need multiple Dreadnoughts, or the equivilant of so to destroy a single Reaper.  Reapers don't travel alone.  They don't have supply lines to destroy.  They never get tired.  They have superior offenses and defenses.  They are not easily destroyed.  It's as simple as that.[/quote]
That kind of tactics is actually a tactic, and not some retarded Hackett fails. Why they ever need to make every human military officer(and not only human) completely retarded?
There is a lot of tactics to counter the reapers, that we can learn and synthesise from lore.
That makes crushing defeat, that allies get, defeat not because of the enemy efficience and strength, but because of everyone being astonishingly dumb. That cheapens reapers, cheapens everyone else, and makes them all completely retarded.
If you are making story about crushing defeat and unconditional surrender, make it believeable.

[/quote]Again...When is it ever shown the reaper are in small groups in any momet in the game but tuchancka and Rennock?
The force we faced in the end of ME3 was not a smal group.
Are you missing the point we are facing a fleet of reapers?

Their is never a tactic used in ME3 ageinst the  work for a prologe time that did not end up with more deaths for us then the reapers.
Every tactic can hold the reapers at bay, but not stop them.

[/quote]
You are missing my point.
I'm saying that there was completely no need to dumb everyone down and making ME3 retarded clowns show.
[/quote]
Dumb down? They had the reaper asan unbeatable force from th start. An fleet we have can do little to stop the reapers. Saying they did do a special tactic to stop the reaper is not dumbing it down, it show that a reaper fleet is an unstoppable force...Which was stated form ME 1. There is no tactic they can use to stop the reapers. There not many tactics they can use to stop the reapers...There is not a series of tactics in any form that can stop the reapers.

[/quote]
Please tell me, why Alliance Defense Committee is completely retarded. Why Hackett is retarded, with failures like arcturus station and completely unneeded ground assault in priority:earth, ended with 100% casualties.
Why Harbringer shooting individual soldiers, while he could one-shoot entire beam offensive by using his main gun.
Why everyone so retarded, so they decided to build a device with unknown function, supposedly a weapon, that should interface with unknown device with unknown function, unknown interface, unknown location, and no one is even know it is ever existed or needed.

So almost everyone is dumbed down, unless you are saying they all were dumb from the beginning of ME1.

[/quote]
"Please tell me, why Alliance Defense Committee is completely retarded. "
Seen nothing like the reapers before...Remeber these are the same people who said"Reapers don't exsist" in ME2.
[/quote]
No, that's just an excuse. And a lousy one.
They are retarded, because they have no battle plans, no tactics, no nothing. General Headquoters of any modern army constantly producing and correcting plans for any possible(and  impossible) situations, sending prepared orders and information throghout entire military structure. Organizing lesser headquarters and commanding officers training, on division, regiment, batallion, company and platoon level.

And they are asking some commander that never had any experience and training in commanding of at least frigate pack, for a war strategy  for an entire stellar civilization? Lol what?

That scene is so unbelievable dumb, that it is just hilarious.

Shepard i also fully retarded in this scene.
"This isn't about strategy or tactics. It is about survival."
For a military officer, commander,  saying something like is stupid and defeatistic. Military officer - it is, damn it, all about strategy and tactics. Why the hell he ever needed otherwise?

[quote]"Why Hackett is retarded,"
His plan to stop the reapers worked...Do not the flawin his plans.

" failures like arcturus station" 
Clearly they can't stop the reapers. Point me to someone who can.


"Completely unneeded ground assault in priority:earth"

The only way into the citadel is from the ground.

"ended with 100% casualties."
These are the reapers they are facing.
[/quote]
That is no excuse.
A 10-20 frigates could easily delivered Shepard, squad, and a lot of support troops right before the beam, lessening probability of reapers turning off the beam. Easily vaporizing that lone destroyer which guarded the beam in a process.
And Harbringer wouldn't even have a time to react.
That retarded mission was completely unneeded. Instead of a swift and deadly attack Earth Alliance's style, we have completely unneeded ground offensive, fight for a completely unneeded ground, losing 100% in the process.
Military officer, who proposed that deserve immediate execution as a traitor and pawn of the reapers.

As for arcturus complete failure, there is another thread.

[quote]
"while he could one-shoot entire beam offensive by using his main gun."
What he is using is his main guns, Harbinger and the reaper don't have kamehameha's.
[/quote]
Now that is becoming hilarious.
You are saying that Shepard just survived 80-160 kt trotil equivalent explosion?
Or you are saying that allied dreadnoughts infinitely more powerful than the reapers?
[quote]
"so they decided to build a device with unknown function, supposedly a weapon, that should interface with unknown device with unknown function, unknown interface, unknown location, and no one is even know it is ever existed or needed."

It well been comferm to be a weapon by Hacket, Liara, and Javik. It was planned and designed by races that had the full detail of the device.

[/quote]
Comrade, get a course of basic logic comprehension. You a clearly incapable of understand half the things i said, and i'm starting to tire.

Modifié par Maxster_, 04 octobre 2012 - 01:12 .

[xsdob]

LucasShark wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Some of the 'reasons' really amount to pretty much nothing. For example, a ground-based cannon took out a Reaper. Great. What you don't seem to think is important is that that cannon might well be big enough and powerful enough that it makes the guns of the allied fleets look like muskets in comparison.

Only it had to be built in the same time-frame we had, and we already have a paralel: the Hanar have ground-based weapons capable of preventing their own planets fall.

You don't know that.

For all we know, the cannon was designed thousands of years before the reapers invasion as that speices way of home defense and was never meant for the reapers.

You kinda pulled it being in the same timeframe as the crucible out of thin air.

Modifié par xsdob, 04 octobre 2012 - 01:13 .

[Punisher cork]

[/quote]2. Directly form the codex....http://masseffect.wi...er_Capabilities
The kinetic barriers on a Reaper capital ship can shrug off the firepower of a small fleet. Weapons specifically designed to overcome shields, such as the Javelin, GARDIAN lasers, or the Thanix series, can bypass the barriers to some degree. The difficulty is getting close enough to use them -- the surface-mounted weaponry on Reaper ships, similar in principle to GARDIAN, presents an effective defense against organic species' fighters.

So thanix weapon are not the super reaper killer you think it is....
Added..http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/OculusThis counters those fighters.

3.That still means the reaper have more ships then we do. the max number of flag ships is 20000. That based on the number of cycle that may of happen. That 1 flagship per cycle.but destoery number can be higher because we don't have a number limit on races the galexy had.

4.You do realise we lost palven after that. 

5.READ POINT 2.  Nothing from sovergin improve defence and offence the ship has to getclose which is a danger zone.

6.Asteroids as cover does not work because any hold in space can be attacked in any dirction. Think 3d , not 2d. The reapers can attack from below, form the back and the top.
In space you can go around astrriods.


[/quote]

3. Purely theoretical. Thats assuming they took zero losses, and assuming they had one species to harvest. Its likely that some cycles didn't provide the reapers with enough for a capital ship. The bulk, codex, are destroyers. Small species. Plus it took them a while to figure out to leave the mass relays and mass effect tech, presumably because they were taking losses and wanted to speed up the cycles. 

4. Palaven was going downhill anyway, this last push was a surprise the reapers didn't even see coming. They took losses anyway. 

5. Yes it did. Your not looking close enough. 

6. That works both ways, its creating a distraction, and multiple asteroids can make quite an impact. Bring down the sky had 3,if I recall, engines pushing that massive asteroid. And you dont' need anything huge, just big enough to block a ship. Imagine 4 or 6 asteroids blocking an unknown amount of dreadnoughts or frigates. Reapers cut them up and you take away their weapon range advantage. Also, in codex, they turn slowly. You can flank and suppress, they have to pick targets. The asteroids are taking all the hits, and your reducing damage to friendly ships, and maximizing impact on reapers. There will be losses, but this works to the reapers weakness. 

[AlanC9]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

but we could have stumbled across plans for something that has been passed down from cycle to cycle about a device that makes nukes not explore in no atmosphere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know I'm killing the joke, but the Reapers' kinetic weapons don't detonate. It's just mass with a lot of acceleration.

Modifié par AlanC9, 04 octobre 2012 - 02:22 .

[LucasShark]

Han Shot First wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Did we play different games?

Because in the Mass Effect games I had played, the Reapers had destroyed every single space faring civilization that had ever existed in the Milky Way, and they had been doing it for billions of years. Among these destroyed civilizations were the Protheans, a race that the first game kept reminding you were more technologically advanced than the current civilizations. Sovereign, the first Reaper we meet, was seemingly invulnerable until Shepard managed to bring down its shields.

I'd say taking all of the above into account, their portrayal in ME3 was about what was expected. In fact after the release of ME1 there was many a discussion on the old boards about how in the hell Shepard was going to manage to defeat an entire fleet of Reapers, when a single Reaper caused so much trouble for the combined Citadel fleets.

Examine HOW they destroyed civilizations, not just that they did.

Does the how really matter?

They had an undefeated record that stretched back billions of years. Consider that there is no nation on Earth older than a few thousand years, and all of those nations have lost the occasional war. The Reapers have been around for billions, and have never lost.

YES, yes it does!

If someone claims "I am a great fighter", it does matter if they would qualify that with "so long as my opponent isn't facing me and I have a bat".

[The Spamming Troll]

Han Shot First wrote...

Did we play different games?

Because in the Mass Effect games I had played, the Reapers had destroyed every single space faring civilization that had ever existed in the Milky Way, and they had been doing it for billions of years. Among these destroyed civilizations were the Protheans, a race that the first game kept reminding you were more technologically advanced than the current civilizations. Sovereign, the first Reaper we meet, was seemingly invulnerable until Shepard managed to bring down its shields.

I'd say taking all of the above into account, their portrayal in ME3 was about what was expected. In fact after the release of ME1 there was many a discussion on the old boards about how in the hell Shepard was going to manage to defeat an entire fleet of Reapers, when a single Reaper caused so much trouble for the combined Citadel fleets.

all of the above is only true because of the way ME3 was was written. sovereign had a spectre(when being a spectre meant something) and a fleet of geth ships and krogan battlemasters(back when krogan battle masters were intimidating) aiding him. not to mention indoctrination(back when indoctrination meant something). protheans could have been written into anything in ME3. would a simple retcon of the protheans be unexpected. er werent the protheans already retconed?

by the looks of things, id say whatever ending there was to pick, bioware picked the wrong one.

a conventional victory wouldnt have displeased anyone. nobody ever complains about being the hero in an underdog story.

[Punisher cork]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

a conventional victory wouldnt have displeased anyone. nobody ever complains about being the hero in an underdog story.

That. That is beautiful. The underdog is underestimated. The underdog has nothing to lose, and everything to gain, he has something to fight for. This is why this kind of story works. 

[dreman9999]

@Punisher cork 



3.I said max number.That means the reaper fleet capital ship number would be equal to or lesser then 20000. Even if it were less, that still means they have more captial ships the we have ships...And based on the codex, they have way more destoryers then we have ships...
4.That still point to the fact that miricle of palven did not stop the reapers.

5. Post something from the lore that we gotform the reaper increase defence and we don't need to close to an extreme danger zone to figh the reapers.

6.You saying you want to drop asteroid on the planet you need? You just blowing up ypurself. The reaper are not going to say put as you drop asteroid on there heads. The would leave the planet way before you get there. Also, read some Enders game, that distraction will not work. Space is infinate, because of that baracades don't work.

Modifié par dreman9999, 04 octobre 2012 - 04:57 .