343 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Did we play different games?

Because in the Mass Effect games I had played, the Reapers had destroyed every single space faring civilization that had ever existed in the Milky Way, and they had been doing it for billions of years. Among these destroyed civilizations were the Protheans, a race that the first game kept reminding you were more technologically advanced than the current civilizations. Sovereign, the first Reaper we meet, was seemingly invulnerable until Shepard managed to bring down its shields.

I'd say taking all of the above into account, their portrayal in ME3 was about what was expected. In fact after the release of ME1 there was many a discussion on the old boards about how in the hell Shepard was going to manage to defeat an entire fleet of Reapers, when a single Reaper caused so much trouble for the combined Citadel fleets.

all of the above is only true because of the way ME3 was was written. sovereign had a spectre(when being a spectre meant something) and a fleet of geth ships and krogan battlemasters(back when krogan battle masters were intimidating) aiding him. not to mention indoctrination(back when indoctrination meant something). protheans could have been written into anything in ME3. would a simple retcon of the protheans be unexpected. er werent the protheans already retconed?

by the looks of things, id say whatever ending there was to pick, bioware picked the wrong one.

a conventional victory wouldnt have displeased anyone. nobody ever complains about being the hero in an underdog story.

How many ending have the player won convetioanly? I fht e awnsers is mean, then that why bw never have a convetioan victory in the game.

[Punisher cork]

dreman9999 wrote...

@Punisher cork 



3.I said max number.That means the reaper fleet capital ship number would be equal to or lesser then 20000. Even if it were less, that still means they have more captial ships the we have ships...And based on the codex, they have way more destoryers then we have ships...
4.That still point to the fact that miricle of palven did not stop the reapers.

5. Post something from the lore that we gotform the reaper increase defence and we don't need to close to an extreme danger zone to figh the reapers.

6.You saying you want to drop asteroid on the planet you need? You just blowing up ypurself. The reaper are not going to say put as you drop asteroid on there heads. The would leave the planet way before you get there. Also, read some Enders game, that distraction will not work. Space is infinate, because of that baracades don't work.

3. Thats still too many. 10,000 is too many. This would be over in hours, they wouldn't need to divide and conquer, they would just steamroll. Play Command and conquer, put it on brutal; or any strategy. Just having powerful units doesn't always work. I was a heavy RTS vet, on a large scale strategy and tactics overcome power.  
If the reapers  had the means and the numbers they wouldn't need organics, they wouldn't need to indoctrinate to shut down defenses, they would just steamroll. If they have near unstoppable material and super strong shields, and dont' evade enemy fire, and they have better range than there would be no plot. That Kasumi mission to stop the indoctrinated hanar from shutting down the defense network would be utterly useless because the reapers just wade in invincibly. They were made near invincible to bring in the plot of the crucible and set up the choices. 
And I said the bulk of reaper forces were destroyers. Your not fully reading my posts. 
4. I didn't say STOP the reapers on Palaven, I never said STOP.  I said hurt, damage, delay slightly. Palaven wasn't going to be won, but the reapers showed WEAKNESS, arrogance, that they could be outsmarted. They could take the hits. Again in the codex, reaper vulnerabilities, with enough intelligence and strategy, its possible they can be defeated. 
5. I stated before that the human and turian volunteers helped clean up soverign. The turians took the main gun, and turned it into the thanix cannon 11 months later. The gun is defense. In Leviathan there is a chunk of soverign in the lab of Dr. Bryson. They had to cut into the pieces somehow. 
6. You can't read well. Why would I attack a planet with asteroids? You can use the same method of transporting asteroids from Bring Down the Sky, but simply change course instead of crashing into a planet. Its called flying. 
You use the asteroids as mobile cover, if the reapers go under the flying asteroid, you are behind it, you go up. Creating distance, obscuring their view. If they have to turn fast, WHICH IS IN THE CODEX I'VE EXPLAINED FOR THE 4TH TIME. It lowers their mass/ kinetic barrier, lowering their shields, which would be great to then attack with. 

Modifié par Punisher cork, 04 octobre 2012 - 05:38 .

[Punisher cork]

I never said stop palaven, someone else did, the post is on page 9 or 10.

[The Spamming Troll]

dreman9999 wrote...

How many ending have the player won convetioanly? I fht e awnsers is mean, then that why bw never have a convetioan victory in the game.

is that something im supposed to be able to read and understand?

shepard wins conventionally all the time. its kindof separds thing. at what point did conventional victory become unacceptable to you?

when was something like 'starchild' ever a method of shepard winning? at what point was 'starchild' acceptable to you?

id like nothing more then to hear a well thought out response from you about these two things.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 04 octobre 2012 - 05:52 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Stfu dude. Whenever I visit this forum you're making new topics on how the ending hurt your butt. It's time to move on.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 04 octobre 2012 - 06:12 .

[FSOAH]

LucasShark wrote...

Plain and simple: up until Bioware had to force the crucible into existance or relevance, the Reapers were never as strong as they claimed.  Period.

Where can I support this?  Right back in ME1 where all this started.

YES: Sovreign was the most powerful ship in the known galaxy at the time.  Yet: Vigil makes particular note about how even it could not storm the citadel on its own.  The battle of the citadel consists primarily of a battle against a massive Geth armada Sovreign brings along.  Yes Sovreign has a big gun, but that's about it.

The weakness of the reapers is also demonstrated in their grand plan and tactics: it is based on suprise and isolation, not outright warfare (which apparently got retconed somewhere).  The whole `we will darken the skies`quote was a BLUFF!  Yes they could do it litterally: but by attacking system by system, one or two at a time.  How do we know thisÉ  The Prothean campaign took centuries, CENTURIES!  Not the weeks or months that the currrent one does.  They are also implied on being dependant on their `farmed`civilizations not getting too far along, or taking their own technological path, as that would make them a threat.

Cut to ME2, and we find still more evidence to them being far weaker then they claim.  We both reverse engineer a weapon from Sovreign, and then use it to KO a reaper-built ship (the collector cruiser) in 2 shots.  And that`s a frigate versus a super-cruiser.  We see the Leviathan of Dis, which was killed in 1 shot from a planet-based weapon, a conventional planet-based weapon.

The Reapers got a massive shot of power-roids sometime at the start of ME3, and apparently some stupidity pills right along with it.  Their new tactics make no sense: why are they stomping about on planets godzilla styleÉ  All they are doing is making their own job harder.

Even within ME3, Reaper invulnerability faulters whenever it is required for dramatic effect, most notably use of a single shot from a Cain to destroy the `Hades canon`, which IS a reaper destroyer.

Yawn.

Modifié par FSOAH, 04 octobre 2012 - 06:37 .

[Punisher cork]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

shepard wins conventionally all the time. its kindof separds thing. at what point did conventional victory become unacceptable to you?

Thats a great point. Funny and true. 

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

How many ending have the player won convetioanly? I fht e awnsers is mean, then that why bw never have a convetioan victory in the game.

is that something im supposed to be able to read and understand?

shepard wins conventionally all the time. its kindof separds thing. at what point did conventional victory become unacceptable to you?

when was something like 'starchild' ever a method of shepard winning? at what point was 'starchild' acceptable to you?

id like nothing more then to hear a well thought out response from you about these two things.

"shepard wins conventionally all the time. its kindof separds thing. at what point did conventional victory become unacceptable to you?"
The  only time Shepard win conventionally is when he is not fighting reapers...Every reaper he killed was in an  unconventional way.


"when was something like 'starchild' ever a method of shepard winning? at what point was 'starchild' acceptable to you?"
To the catalyst it's not about winning or losing. It's about it doing it's programing. It let you choose on the calulation you can help it complete it's programing.


"id like nothing more then to hear a well thought out response from you about these two things. "

I hope you can comprehened my points.

[dreman9999]

Punisher cork wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

shepard wins conventionally all the time. its kindof separds thing. at what point did conventional victory become unacceptable to you?

Thats a great point. Funny and true. 

The  only time Shepard win conventionally is when he is not fighting reapers...Every reaper he killed was in an  unconventional way

[dreman9999]

Punisher cork wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

@Punisher cork 



3.I said max number.That means the reaper fleet capital ship number would be equal to or lesser then 20000. Even if it were less, that still means they have more captial ships the we have ships...And based on the codex, they have way more destoryers then we have ships...
4.That still point to the fact that miricle of palven did not stop the reapers.

5. Post something from the lore that we gotform the reaper increase defence and we don't need to close to an extreme danger zone to figh the reapers.

6.You saying you want to drop asteroid on the planet you need? You just blowing up ypurself. The reaper are not going to say put as you drop asteroid on there heads. The would leave the planet way before you get there. Also, read some Enders game, that distraction will not work. Space is infinate, because of that baracades don't work.

3. Thats still too many. 10,000 is too many. This would be over in hours, they wouldn't need to divide and conquer, they would just steamroll. Play Command and conquer, put it on brutal; or any strategy. Just having powerful units doesn't always work. I was a heavy RTS vet, on a large scale strategy and tactics overcome power.  
If the reapers  had the means and the numbers they wouldn't need organics, they wouldn't need to indoctrinate to shut down defenses, they would just steamroll. If they have near unstoppable material and super strong shields, and dont' evade enemy fire, and they have better range than there would be no plot. That Kasumi mission to stop the indoctrinated hanar from shutting down the defense network would be utterly useless because the reapers just wade in invincibly. They were made near invincible to bring in the plot of the crucible and set up the choices. 
And I said the bulk of reaper forces were destroyers. Your not fully reading my posts. 
4. I didn't say STOP the reapers on Palaven, I never said STOP.  I said hurt, damage, delay slightly. Palaven wasn't going to be won, but the reapers showed WEAKNESS, arrogance, that they could be outsmarted. They could take the hits. Again in the codex, reaper vulnerabilities, with enough intelligence and strategy, its possible they can be defeated. 
5. I stated before that the human and turian volunteers helped clean up soverign. The turians took the main gun, and turned it into the thanix cannon 11 months later. The gun is defense. In Leviathan there is a chunk of soverign in the lab of Dr. Bryson. They had to cut into the pieces somehow. 
6. You can't read well. Why would I attack a planet with asteroids? You can use the same method of transporting asteroids from Bring Down the Sky, but simply change course instead of crashing into a planet. Its called flying. 
You use the asteroids as mobile cover, if the reapers go under the flying asteroid, you are behind it, you go up. Creating distance, obscuring their view. If they have to turn fast, WHICH IS IN THE CODEX I'VE EXPLAINED FOR THE 4TH TIME. It lowers their mass/ kinetic barrier, lowering their shields, which would be great to then attack with. 

3. You do realize that the reaper overwhelmed the entire galexy. Earth has a high concentration of reaper but not every reaper in the galexy.
The galexy map is filled with reapers for a reason.

4.But thats the problem here. You keep bring up points the allied fleets stopped some reapers. Understand that they are fighting fleets of reapers. Some they can kill but just because you kill some convetionally , does not mean you can defeat the entire fleet convetionally.

5. How is an offensive weapon that need to be in close range of a reaper to be effective, when reaper are massivly destructive at far range, defence?

That's like saying a shot gun is defence ageints a sniper rifle.

6. You do understand that there not going to send all ther forces after you....And  asteroids are not that easy to turn.

If the reaper tty to go around the asteroids and you move, the most likely have forces waiting for you on the other side.

In space, staying on a limited space for cover where an enemy can attack you at any angle is not a good defence.

There's an obvious way to useasteroids in space wars that can help you but your way off. I'll let you guess.

[EnvyTB075]

Because laser guided munitions are totally unconventional in this day and age, amirite?

[Hey]

Lucas - Someday Imgonna log in and u gonna have a positve thread?!... Make it happen bro...

!

[Icinix]

Indeed. The first two Mass Effects seemed to build up to the idea and lean on the hope that conventional was possible. Shepard and co consistently did the impossible.

Protheans were a stagnated race that didn't have the diversity of mind that this cycle has AND their seat of government power was taken out in the first assault AND communication between worlds cut off AND they still fought for centuries AND managed to set enough things in play to make it easier for the next cycle.

Everything leans towards this war being winnable in a conventional (conventional being relative) manner - but at great cost and loss - but very much possible.

ME3 did nothing to dispel that idea and a lot of what happened through it reinforced it - Leviathan claims they build one (1 - singular) Reaper per cycle. If that doesn't scream they're numbers have been dwindling for cycles and that this can be won conventionally - then nothing ever in the history of the universe is possible.

[EnvyTB075]

Also, some people seem to be conveniently forgetting Liaras little spiel about her being able to outlive this cycle in ME3 itself....

Festae9 wrote...

Lucas - Someday Imgonna log in and u gonna have a positve thread?!... Make it happen bro...

!

Festae9

Some day, I'm going to log in, and you're going to learn the english language.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 04 octobre 2012 - 10:55 .

[Podge 90]

dreman9999 wrote...

How many ending have the player won convetioanly? I fht e awnsers is mean, then that why bw never have a convetioan victory in the game.

The illiteracy is strong in this thread.  Every single one of your posts has numerous errors in it.  I'm not being a Grammar Natsee, I'm saying that if you don't want people skipping over your posts, express yourself properly.

Modifié par Podge 90, 04 octobre 2012 - 12:09 .

[AsheraII]

LucasShark wrote...

Sovreign was the most powerful ship in the known galaxy at the time.  Yet: Vigil makes particular note about how even it could not storm the citadel on its own.

This is basically the difference between ME 1 & 2 and ME 3: In ME3 there is an armada of these ships instead of just one. Where Sovereign can be destroyed in ME1 just by throwing numbers against it, that tactic simply won't hold up in ME3, where there are hundreds/thousands of these ships. Where you could outmanouvre one ship by giving it more targets than it can handle, the possibility to do that is already halved by adding another one. And it already cost several fleets to handle Sovereign. The council just doesn't have the thousands of fleets required to handle all those Reapers combined. Despite all the improvements made over time, just one Reaper is still a lot to handle.

[AsheraII]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Punisher cork wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

shepard wins conventionally all the time. its kindof separds thing. at what point did conventional victory become unacceptable to you?

Thats a great point. Funny and true. 

The  only time Shepard win conventionally is when he is not fighting reapers...Every reaper he killed was in an  unconventional way

Really?

Sovereign - hell fire of munitions + distraction when Saren got killed
Reaper on Rannoch - hell fire of munitions +landed, which means its shields were lower to compensate its own weight
Reaper on Earth - Two Thanix missiles +landed, which means its shields were lower to compensate its own weight

Yep, totally unconvential.

fixed

[The Spamming Troll]

AsheraII wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Sovreign was the most powerful ship in the known galaxy at the time.  Yet: Vigil makes particular note about how even it could not storm the citadel on its own.

This is basically the difference between ME 1 & 2 and ME 3: In ME3 there is an armada of these ships instead of just one. Where Sovereign can be destroyed in ME1 just by throwing numbers against it, that tactic simply won't hold up in ME3, where there are hundreds/thousands of these ships. Where you could outmanouvre one ship by giving it more targets than it can handle, the possibility to do that is already halved by adding another one. And it already cost several fleets to handle Sovereign. The council just doesn't have the thousands of fleets required to handle all those Reapers combined. Despite all the improvements made over time, just one Reaper is still a lot to handle.

using in game examples can go both ways with the all powerfull, and all stupid reaper collective.:

have you ever scanned planets before in ME3? was it easy to run away from the reapers chasing you?

was it too easy???

[Podge 90]

AsheraII wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Punisher cork wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

shepard wins conventionally all the time. its kindof separds thing. at what point did conventional victory become unacceptable to you?

Thats a great point. Funny and true. 

The  only time Shepard win conventionally is when he is not fighting reapers...Every reaper he killed was in an  unconventional way

Really?

Sovereign - hell fire of munitions + distraction when Saren got killed
Reaper on Rannoch - hell fire of munitions +landed, which means its shields were lower to compensate its own weight
Reaper on Earth - Two Thanix missiles +landed, which means its shields were lower to compensate its own weight

Yep, totally unconvential.

fixed

guns kill Reapers.  Sounds conventional to me.

[dreman9999]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Punisher cork wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

shepard wins conventionally all the time. its kindof separds thing. at what point did conventional victory become unacceptable to you?

Thats a great point. Funny and true. 

The  only time Shepard win conventionally is when he is not fighting reapers...Every reaper he killed was in an  unconventional way

Really?

Sovereign - hell fire of munitions
Reaper on Rannoch - hell fire of munitions
Reaper on Earth - Two Thanix missiles

Yep, totally unconvential.

Sovergin-Had to be stuned first.

Reaper on Rannoch- We had to shot that munition at the reapers fire chamber using a lazer guide...While the reaper fired on us.

Reaper on Earth--We had to wait till the reaper was near over us to firethe missiles down it's fire champer while being attacked by hordes of husk and the reaper.

[dreman9999]

Podge 90 wrote...

AsheraII wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Punisher cork wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

shepard wins conventionally all the time. its kindof separds thing. at what point did conventional victory become unacceptable to you?

Thats a great point. Funny and true. 

The  only time Shepard win conventionally is when he is not fighting reapers...Every reaper he killed was in an  unconventional way

Really?

Sovereign - hell fire of munitions + distraction when Saren got killed
Reaper on Rannoch - hell fire of munitions +landed, which means its shields were lower to compensate its own weight
Reaper on Earth - Two Thanix missiles +landed, which means its shields were lower to compensate its own weight

Yep, totally unconvential.

fixed

guns kill Reapers.  Sounds conventional to me.

The unconventional part is the fact that guns alone did not kill reapers. We had to do alot of extra and extreme thing first to even start to harm it with guns.

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

AsheraII wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Sovreign was the most powerful ship in the known galaxy at the time.  Yet: Vigil makes particular note about how even it could not storm the citadel on its own.

This is basically the difference between ME 1 & 2 and ME 3: In ME3 there is an armada of these ships instead of just one. Where Sovereign can be destroyed in ME1 just by throwing numbers against it, that tactic simply won't hold up in ME3, where there are hundreds/thousands of these ships. Where you could outmanouvre one ship by giving it more targets than it can handle, the possibility to do that is already halved by adding another one. And it already cost several fleets to handle Sovereign. The council just doesn't have the thousands of fleets required to handle all those Reapers combined. Despite all the improvements made over time, just one Reaper is still a lot to handle.

using in game examples can go both ways with the all powerfull, and all stupid reaper collective.:

have you ever scanned planets before in ME3? was it easy to run away from the reapers chasing you?

was it too easy???

That doesnot make a point.

[Nicksta92]

Reapers are as powerful as they think. Sovereign, your example against this theory, is actually the perfect example FOR it. Even though, at the battle for the citadel, there was a Geth fleet supporting, Sovereign still held off the majority of the Alliance forces for quite some time. Now if there were two Reapers there, I'd say that there would theoretically be a draw. Take the hundreds of Reapers that exists and pit them against everything, well, Reapers still win.

Mass Effect 3 was the ****tiest game in the series but it did do this part and quite a few others right.

[Podge 90]

dreman9999 wrote...

Podge 90 wrote...

AsheraII wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Punisher cork wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

shepard wins conventionally all the time. its kindof separds thing. at what point did conventional victory become unacceptable to you?

Thats a great point. Funny and true. 

The  only time Shepard win conventionally is when he is not fighting reapers...Every reaper he killed was in an  unconventional way

Really?

Sovereign - hell fire of munitions + distraction when Saren got killed
Reaper on Rannoch - hell fire of munitions +landed, which means its shields were lower to compensate its own weight
Reaper on Earth - Two Thanix missiles +landed, which means its shields were lower to compensate its own weight

Yep, totally unconvential.

fixed

guns kill Reapers.  Sounds conventional to me.

The unconventional part is the fact that guns alone did not kill reapers. We had to do alot of extra and extreme thing first to even start to harm it with guns.

But.....we killed the Reaper with weapons, correct?