343 réponses à ce sujet

[Kidd]

I always figured it was the other way around. The Reapers seemed nigh-unstoppable when attacking in larger numbers. From what I saw, the only reason they preferred stealthy ways was to ensure they had 0 casualties - after all they often only had one new Reaper birth every 50 000 years. We see tons of Reapers blowing up, that's many millennia of Reaper harvest blown up by our conventional weaponry. If anything I've always felt we did waaaay too good without the Crucible.

[dreman9999]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Did we play different games?

Because in the Mass Effect games I had played, the Reapers had destroyed every single space faring civilization that had ever existed in the Milky Way, and they had been doing it for billions of years. Among these destroyed civilizations were the Protheans, a race that the first game kept reminding you were more technologically advanced than the current civilizations. Sovereign, the first Reaper we meet, was seemingly invulnerable until Shepard managed to bring down its shields.

I'd say taking all of the above into account, their portrayal in ME3 was about what was expected. In fact after the release of ME1 there was many a discussion on the old boards about how in the hell Shepard was going to manage to defeat an entire fleet of Reapers, when a single Reaper caused so much trouble for the combined Citadel fleets.

Everyone always ignores this, presumably because they don't realise how big the galaxy actually is and assume that taking hundreds of years to wipe out a complete galactic civilisation means the Reapers were struggling.

The does not mean struggling. That just means the galexy is big.

I know, I said most people ignore that.

We know for a fact that the Reapers vastly outnumber us, even with the Geth and Quarian fleets, and that they are immensely powerful (which was set up in the first game, heck if it wasn't for Deus Ex Vigil and Saran failing Sovereign would've won) yet people try to pretend they were set up as unbeatable in ME3, which just isn't true.

me1: How the heck are we going to defeat a fleet of that?

ME3: Where's my convetional victory and when did they show the reapers to be unbeatalbe?

Modifié par dreman9999, 03 octobre 2012 - 08:29 .

[dreman9999]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

I always figured it was the other way around. The Reapers seemed nigh-unstoppable when attacking in larger numbers. From what I saw, the only reason they preferred stealthy ways was to ensure they had 0 casualties - after all they often only had one new Reaper birth every 50 000 years. We see tons of Reapers blowing up, that's many millennia of Reaper harvest blown up by our conventional weaponry. If anything I've always felt we did waaaay too good without the Crucible.

The only time we seen a reaper destroyed in ME3 where we faced one. We never defeated them in mass.

[Maxster_]

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Did we play different games?

Because in the Mass Effect games I had played, the Reapers had destroyed every single space faring civilization that had ever existed in the Milky Way, and they had been doing it for billions of years. Among these destroyed civilizations were the Protheans, a race that the first game kept reminding you were more technologically advanced than the current civilizations. Sovereign, the first Reaper we meet, was seemingly invulnerable until Shepard managed to bring down its shields.

I'd say taking all of the above into account, their portrayal in ME3 was about what was expected. In fact after the release of ME1 there was many a discussion on the old boards about how in the hell Shepard was going to manage to defeat an entire fleet of Reapers, when a single Reaper caused so much trouble for the combined Citadel fleets.

That's no excuse to turn plot into nonsensical mess, with lore-butchering and negative iq characters.

What in ME3 butchersthe lore? ME started out with the reaper being unstoppable, the fact that they stayed unstoppable some how butchers th elore and plot?

They were never portrayed as unstoppable before ME3. Strong, and very dangerous - yes. But their main tactics was first decapitate the goverment and leadership, then cut all logistic, transportation and communication(by turning off relay network). For a stellar civilization, build around relay network this 2 steps is fatal.
And then they easily and slowly destroying remained isolated resistance packets.

This kind of strategy is completely unneeded, if they are all-powerful and unstoppable and can just stomp all fleets at once . Just a waste of time for lulz.

In ME1 Saren thought that reapers are unstoppable, and terrified by that, started to help Sovereign in hope that reapers will spare some small part of his species.
Shepard proved that Saren was wrong, that there is another way. And stopped(delayed) invasion(well, that was not affected reapers in any way, and ME1 was retconned into oblivion anyways)

So, reapers made this way specifically for ME3, and specifically for ME3 main plot, every character involved in it suffered massive IQ loss. Like the entire defense comitee(what they were doing on earth anyway?), Shepard, Hackett, Anderson, Udina, Harbringer, and almost everyone else.
And all that was done to achieve unprecendeted levels of massively lore-butchering in ME3 and of course in the endings. For the sake of cheap drama, explosions, and some nihilstic and disgusting philosophy(peace through homogenization, resistance is futile, submission is preferable to extinction).

Modifié par Maxster_, 03 octobre 2012 - 08:48 .

[dreman9999]

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Did we play different games?

Because in the Mass Effect games I had played, the Reapers had destroyed every single space faring civilization that had ever existed in the Milky Way, and they had been doing it for billions of years. Among these destroyed civilizations were the Protheans, a race that the first game kept reminding you were more technologically advanced than the current civilizations. Sovereign, the first Reaper we meet, was seemingly invulnerable until Shepard managed to bring down its shields.

I'd say taking all of the above into account, their portrayal in ME3 was about what was expected. In fact after the release of ME1 there was many a discussion on the old boards about how in the hell Shepard was going to manage to defeat an entire fleet of Reapers, when a single Reaper caused so much trouble for the combined Citadel fleets.

That's no excuse to turn plot into nonsensical mess, with lore-butchering and negative iq characters.

What in ME3 butchersthe lore? ME started out with the reaper being unstoppable, the fact that they stayed unstoppable some how butchers th elore and plot?

They were never portrayed as unstoppable before ME3. Strong, and very dangerous - yes. But their main tactics was first decapitate the goverment and leadership, then cut all logistic, transportation and communication(by turning off relay network). For a stellar civilization, build around relay network this 2 steps is fatal.
And then they easily and slowly destroying remained isolated resistance packets.

This kind of strategy is completely unneeded, if they are all-powerful and unstoppable and can just stomp all fleets at once . Just a waste of time for lulz.

In ME1 Saren thought that reapers are unstoppable, and terrified by that, started to help Sovereign in hope that reapers will spare some small part of his species.
Shepard proved that Saren was wrong, that there is another way. And stopped(delayed) invasion(well, that was not affected reapers in any way, and ME1 was retconned into oblivion anyways)

So, reapers made this way specifically for ME3, and specifically for ME3 main plot, every character involved in it suffered massive IQ loss. Like the entire defense comitee(what they were doing on earth anyway?), Shepard, Hackett, Anderson, Udina, Harbringer, and almost everyone else.
And all that was done to achieve unprecendeted levels of massively lore-butchering in ME3 and of course in the endings. For the sake of cheap drama, explosions, and some nihilstic and disgusting philosophy(peace through homogenization, resistance is futile, submission is preferable to extinction).

The first reaper ship you saw took on a fleet. And you later found out a fleet of ships just like sovergin , which dwarfs every fleet in the galexy combined in numbers, was coming.

You looked at sovergin and said to yourself,"I can sure defeat a fleet of that convetionally"?

It's nothing tio do with IQ loss. It better massivley better quality ships and massively better numbers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Over less quality ships and smaller numbers.

Modifié par dreman9999, 03 octobre 2012 - 08:59 .

[Maxster_]

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Did we play different games?

Because in the Mass Effect games I had played, the Reapers had destroyed every single space faring civilization that had ever existed in the Milky Way, and they had been doing it for billions of years. Among these destroyed civilizations were the Protheans, a race that the first game kept reminding you were more technologically advanced than the current civilizations. Sovereign, the first Reaper we meet, was seemingly invulnerable until Shepard managed to bring down its shields.

I'd say taking all of the above into account, their portrayal in ME3 was about what was expected. In fact after the release of ME1 there was many a discussion on the old boards about how in the hell Shepard was going to manage to defeat an entire fleet of Reapers, when a single Reaper caused so much trouble for the combined Citadel fleets.

That's no excuse to turn plot into nonsensical mess, with lore-butchering and negative iq characters.

What in ME3 butchersthe lore? ME started out with the reaper being unstoppable, the fact that they stayed unstoppable some how butchers th elore and plot?

They were never portrayed as unstoppable before ME3. Strong, and very dangerous - yes. But their main tactics was first decapitate the goverment and leadership, then cut all logistic, transportation and communication(by turning off relay network). For a stellar civilization, build around relay network this 2 steps is fatal.
And then they easily and slowly destroying remained isolated resistance packets.

This kind of strategy is completely unneeded, if they are all-powerful and unstoppable and can just stomp all fleets at once . Just a waste of time for lulz.

In ME1 Saren thought that reapers are unstoppable, and terrified by that, started to help Sovereign in hope that reapers will spare some small part of his species.
Shepard proved that Saren was wrong, that there is another way. And stopped(delayed) invasion(well, that was not affected reapers in any way, and ME1 was retconned into oblivion anyways)

So, reapers made this way specifically for ME3, and specifically for ME3 main plot, every character involved in it suffered massive IQ loss. Like the entire defense comitee(what they were doing on earth anyway?), Shepard, Hackett, Anderson, Udina, Harbringer, and almost everyone else.
And all that was done to achieve unprecendeted levels of massively lore-butchering in ME3 and of course in the endings. For the sake of cheap drama, explosions, and some nihilstic and disgusting philosophy(peace through homogenization, resistance is futile, submission is preferable to extinction).

The first reaper ship you saw took on a fleet. And you later found out a fleet of ships just like sovergin , which dwarfs every fleet in the galexy combined in numbers, was coming.

You looked at sovergin and said to yourself,"I can sure defeat a fleet of that convetionally"?

It's nothing tio do with IQ loss. It better massivley better quality ships and massively better numbers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Over less quality ships and smaller numbers.

eaware decided to make the reapers unstoppable, unbeatable. For the sake of cheap drama and sick philosophy.
And to emphasis futility and hopelessness of resistance and fight them (un)conventionally with existing fleets, tactics and great military officers, to make the retarded crucible the only way to do something with reapers - they butchered the lore, and dumbed down almost every character, especially military officers and scientists.
Thus making ME3 a retarded clowns show.
This way, this became a story of crushing defeat, but not because of enemy effort, but because everyone was astonishingly retarded.

In another alternative universe, where ME3 is a standalone game with no prequels and with correct lore and not dumb characters - that could be an interesting story, with completely different moral then ME.

[BlessedSoldier]

Congratulations! Your very valid thread showcasing the plotholes of this franchise has been swallowed by BSN trolls!

I seriously do agree 100% with the OP and he can made many very valid points met with...stupid circular logic.

[dreman9999]

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Did we play different games?

Because in the Mass Effect games I had played, the Reapers had destroyed every single space faring civilization that had ever existed in the Milky Way, and they had been doing it for billions of years. Among these destroyed civilizations were the Protheans, a race that the first game kept reminding you were more technologically advanced than the current civilizations. Sovereign, the first Reaper we meet, was seemingly invulnerable until Shepard managed to bring down its shields.

I'd say taking all of the above into account, their portrayal in ME3 was about what was expected. In fact after the release of ME1 there was many a discussion on the old boards about how in the hell Shepard was going to manage to defeat an entire fleet of Reapers, when a single Reaper caused so much trouble for the combined Citadel fleets.

That's no excuse to turn plot into nonsensical mess, with lore-butchering and negative iq characters.

What in ME3 butchersthe lore? ME started out with the reaper being unstoppable, the fact that they stayed unstoppable some how butchers th elore and plot?

They were never portrayed as unstoppable before ME3. Strong, and very dangerous - yes. But their main tactics was first decapitate the goverment and leadership, then cut all logistic, transportation and communication(by turning off relay network). For a stellar civilization, build around relay network this 2 steps is fatal.
And then they easily and slowly destroying remained isolated resistance packets.

This kind of strategy is completely unneeded, if they are all-powerful and unstoppable and can just stomp all fleets at once . Just a waste of time for lulz.

In ME1 Saren thought that reapers are unstoppable, and terrified by that, started to help Sovereign in hope that reapers will spare some small part of his species.
Shepard proved that Saren was wrong, that there is another way. And stopped(delayed) invasion(well, that was not affected reapers in any way, and ME1 was retconned into oblivion anyways)

So, reapers made this way specifically for ME3, and specifically for ME3 main plot, every character involved in it suffered massive IQ loss. Like the entire defense comitee(what they were doing on earth anyway?), Shepard, Hackett, Anderson, Udina, Harbringer, and almost everyone else.
And all that was done to achieve unprecendeted levels of massively lore-butchering in ME3 and of course in the endings. For the sake of cheap drama, explosions, and some nihilstic and disgusting philosophy(peace through homogenization, resistance is futile, submission is preferable to extinction).

The first reaper ship you saw took on a fleet. And you later found out a fleet of ships just like sovergin , which dwarfs every fleet in the galexy combined in numbers, was coming.

You looked at sovergin and said to yourself,"I can sure defeat a fleet of that convetionally"?

It's nothing tio do with IQ loss. It better massivley better quality ships and massively better numbers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Over less quality ships and smaller numbers.

eaware decided to make the reapers unstoppable, unbeatable. For the sake of cheap drama and sick philosophy.
And to emphasis futility and hopelessness of resistance and fight them (un)conventionally with existing fleets, tactics and great military officers, to make the retarded crucible the only way to do something with reapers - they butchered the lore, and dumbed down almost every character, especially military officers and scientists.
Thus making ME3 a retarded clowns show.
This way, this became a story of crushing defeat, but not because of enemy effort, but because everyone was astonishingly retarded.

In another alternative universe, where ME3 is a standalone game with no prequels and with correct lore and not dumb characters - that could be an interesting story, with completely different moral then ME.

The first reaper ship you saw took on a fleet. And you later found out a fleet of ships just like sovergin , which dwarfs every fleet in the galexy combined in numbers, was coming.

Hell, they even advertied the reaper were unstopable from ME1.

This is not something that suddenly came up in ME3.

[dreman9999]

BlessedSoldier wrote...

Congratulations! Your very valid thread showcasing the plotholes of this franchise has been swallowed by BSN trolls!

I seriously do agree 100% with the OP and he can made many very valid points met with...stupid circular logic.

The first reaper ship you saw took on a fleet. And you later found out a fleet of ships just like sovergin , which dwarfs every fleet in the galexy combined in numbers, was coming.

Suddenly think the reapers being unstoppable is new in ME3?

[Maxster_]

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Did we play different games?

Because in the Mass Effect games I had played, the Reapers had destroyed every single space faring civilization that had ever existed in the Milky Way, and they had been doing it for billions of years. Among these destroyed civilizations were the Protheans, a race that the first game kept reminding you were more technologically advanced than the current civilizations. Sovereign, the first Reaper we meet, was seemingly invulnerable until Shepard managed to bring down its shields.

I'd say taking all of the above into account, their portrayal in ME3 was about what was expected. In fact after the release of ME1 there was many a discussion on the old boards about how in the hell Shepard was going to manage to defeat an entire fleet of Reapers, when a single Reaper caused so much trouble for the combined Citadel fleets.

That's no excuse to turn plot into nonsensical mess, with lore-butchering and negative iq characters.

What in ME3 butchersthe lore? ME started out with the reaper being unstoppable, the fact that they stayed unstoppable some how butchers th elore and plot?

They were never portrayed as unstoppable before ME3. Strong, and very dangerous - yes. But their main tactics was first decapitate the goverment and leadership, then cut all logistic, transportation and communication(by turning off relay network). For a stellar civilization, build around relay network this 2 steps is fatal.
And then they easily and slowly destroying remained isolated resistance packets.

This kind of strategy is completely unneeded, if they are all-powerful and unstoppable and can just stomp all fleets at once . Just a waste of time for lulz.

In ME1 Saren thought that reapers are unstoppable, and terrified by that, started to help Sovereign in hope that reapers will spare some small part of his species.
Shepard proved that Saren was wrong, that there is another way. And stopped(delayed) invasion(well, that was not affected reapers in any way, and ME1 was retconned into oblivion anyways)

So, reapers made this way specifically for ME3, and specifically for ME3 main plot, every character involved in it suffered massive IQ loss. Like the entire defense comitee(what they were doing on earth anyway?), Shepard, Hackett, Anderson, Udina, Harbringer, and almost everyone else.
And all that was done to achieve unprecendeted levels of massively lore-butchering in ME3 and of course in the endings. For the sake of cheap drama, explosions, and some nihilstic and disgusting philosophy(peace through homogenization, resistance is futile, submission is preferable to extinction).

The first reaper ship you saw took on a fleet. And you later found out a fleet of ships just like sovergin , which dwarfs every fleet in the galexy combined in numbers, was coming.

You looked at sovergin and said to yourself,"I can sure defeat a fleet of that convetionally"?

It's nothing tio do with IQ loss. It better massivley better quality ships and massively better numbers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Over less quality ships and smaller numbers.

eaware decided to make the reapers unstoppable, unbeatable. For the sake of cheap drama and sick philosophy.
And to emphasis futility and hopelessness of resistance and fight them (un)conventionally with existing fleets, tactics and great military officers, to make the retarded crucible the only way to do something with reapers - they butchered the lore, and dumbed down almost every character, especially military officers and scientists.
Thus making ME3 a retarded clowns show.
This way, this became a story of crushing defeat, but not because of enemy effort, but because everyone was astonishingly retarded.

In another alternative universe, where ME3 is a standalone game with no prequels and with correct lore and not dumb characters - that could be an interesting story, with completely different moral then ME.

The first reaper ship you saw took on a fleet. And you later found out a fleet of ships just like sovergin , which dwarfs every fleet in the galexy combined in numbers, was coming.

Hell, they even advertied the reaper were unstopable from ME1.

This is not something that suddenly came up in ME3.

They were stopped in ME1.
There is many ways to make them from unstoppable to stoppable. EAWare just choose to make them that way. To tell completely different story from ME1 and ME2 with different and disgusting moral and philosophy.
For example, because of Shepard acts, reapers transit from dark space to a galaxy cost them 2/3 of their numbers, and others were seriously weakened. That still makes them not so brilliant by having only one backup plan for vanguard's(Sovereign) failure. But it is lightyears away better than what we we got.

Modifié par Maxster_, 03 octobre 2012 - 09:27 .

[dreman9999]

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Did we play different games?

Because in the Mass Effect games I had played, the Reapers had destroyed every single space faring civilization that had ever existed in the Milky Way, and they had been doing it for billions of years. Among these destroyed civilizations were the Protheans, a race that the first game kept reminding you were more technologically advanced than the current civilizations. Sovereign, the first Reaper we meet, was seemingly invulnerable until Shepard managed to bring down its shields.

I'd say taking all of the above into account, their portrayal in ME3 was about what was expected. In fact after the release of ME1 there was many a discussion on the old boards about how in the hell Shepard was going to manage to defeat an entire fleet of Reapers, when a single Reaper caused so much trouble for the combined Citadel fleets.

That's no excuse to turn plot into nonsensical mess, with lore-butchering and negative iq characters.

What in ME3 butchersthe lore? ME started out with the reaper being unstoppable, the fact that they stayed unstoppable some how butchers th elore and plot?

They were never portrayed as unstoppable before ME3. Strong, and very dangerous - yes. But their main tactics was first decapitate the goverment and leadership, then cut all logistic, transportation and communication(by turning off relay network). For a stellar civilization, build around relay network this 2 steps is fatal.
And then they easily and slowly destroying remained isolated resistance packets.

This kind of strategy is completely unneeded, if they are all-powerful and unstoppable and can just stomp all fleets at once . Just a waste of time for lulz.

In ME1 Saren thought that reapers are unstoppable, and terrified by that, started to help Sovereign in hope that reapers will spare some small part of his species.
Shepard proved that Saren was wrong, that there is another way. And stopped(delayed) invasion(well, that was not affected reapers in any way, and ME1 was retconned into oblivion anyways)

So, reapers made this way specifically for ME3, and specifically for ME3 main plot, every character involved in it suffered massive IQ loss. Like the entire defense comitee(what they were doing on earth anyway?), Shepard, Hackett, Anderson, Udina, Harbringer, and almost everyone else.
And all that was done to achieve unprecendeted levels of massively lore-butchering in ME3 and of course in the endings. For the sake of cheap drama, explosions, and some nihilstic and disgusting philosophy(peace through homogenization, resistance is futile, submission is preferable to extinction).

The first reaper ship you saw took on a fleet. And you later found out a fleet of ships just like sovergin , which dwarfs every fleet in the galexy combined in numbers, was coming.

You looked at sovergin and said to yourself,"I can sure defeat a fleet of that convetionally"?

It's nothing tio do with IQ loss. It better massivley better quality ships and massively better numbers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Over less quality ships and smaller numbers.

eaware decided to make the reapers unstoppable, unbeatable. For the sake of cheap drama and sick philosophy.
And to emphasis futility and hopelessness of resistance and fight them (un)conventionally with existing fleets, tactics and great military officers, to make the retarded crucible the only way to do something with reapers - they butchered the lore, and dumbed down almost every character, especially military officers and scientists.
Thus making ME3 a retarded clowns show.
This way, this became a story of crushing defeat, but not because of enemy effort, but because everyone was astonishingly retarded.

In another alternative universe, where ME3 is a standalone game with no prequels and with correct lore and not dumb characters - that could be an interesting story, with completely different moral then ME.

The first reaper ship you saw took on a fleet. And you later found out a fleet of ships just like sovergin , which dwarfs every fleet in the galexy combined in numbers, was coming.

Hell, they even advertied the reaper were unstopable from ME1.

This is not something that suddenly came up in ME3.

They were stopped in ME1.
There is many ways to make them from unstoppable to stoppable. EAWare just choose to make them that way. To tell completely different story from ME1 and ME2 with different and disgusting moral and philosophy.
For example, because of Shepard acts, reapers transit from dark space to a galaxy cost them 2/3 of their numbers, and others were seriously weakened. That still makes them not so brilliant by having only one backup plan for vanguard's(Sovereign) failure. But it is lightyears away better than what we we got.

One was stopped in ME1. And it took hell to stop that one reaper.Stopping one does not mean we can take on a fleet.

And if you going to say the trip weaken them show proof. Other wise, bs.

Show me one thing in ME1 and ME2 that state we can beat them conventionally.

[Maxster_]

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Did we play different games?

Because in the Mass Effect games I had played, the Reapers had destroyed every single space faring civilization that had ever existed in the Milky Way, and they had been doing it for billions of years. Among these destroyed civilizations were the Protheans, a race that the first game kept reminding you were more technologically advanced than the current civilizations. Sovereign, the first Reaper we meet, was seemingly invulnerable until Shepard managed to bring down its shields.

I'd say taking all of the above into account, their portrayal in ME3 was about what was expected. In fact after the release of ME1 there was many a discussion on the old boards about how in the hell Shepard was going to manage to defeat an entire fleet of Reapers, when a single Reaper caused so much trouble for the combined Citadel fleets.

That's no excuse to turn plot into nonsensical mess, with lore-butchering and negative iq characters.

What in ME3 butchersthe lore? ME started out with the reaper being unstoppable, the fact that they stayed unstoppable some how butchers th elore and plot?

They were never portrayed as unstoppable before ME3. Strong, and very dangerous - yes. But their main tactics was first decapitate the goverment and leadership, then cut all logistic, transportation and communication(by turning off relay network). For a stellar civilization, build around relay network this 2 steps is fatal.
And then they easily and slowly destroying remained isolated resistance packets.

This kind of strategy is completely unneeded, if they are all-powerful and unstoppable and can just stomp all fleets at once . Just a waste of time for lulz.

In ME1 Saren thought that reapers are unstoppable, and terrified by that, started to help Sovereign in hope that reapers will spare some small part of his species.
Shepard proved that Saren was wrong, that there is another way. And stopped(delayed) invasion(well, that was not affected reapers in any way, and ME1 was retconned into oblivion anyways)

So, reapers made this way specifically for ME3, and specifically for ME3 main plot, every character involved in it suffered massive IQ loss. Like the entire defense comitee(what they were doing on earth anyway?), Shepard, Hackett, Anderson, Udina, Harbringer, and almost everyone else.
And all that was done to achieve unprecendeted levels of massively lore-butchering in ME3 and of course in the endings. For the sake of cheap drama, explosions, and some nihilstic and disgusting philosophy(peace through homogenization, resistance is futile, submission is preferable to extinction).

The first reaper ship you saw took on a fleet. And you later found out a fleet of ships just like sovergin , which dwarfs every fleet in the galexy combined in numbers, was coming.

You looked at sovergin and said to yourself,"I can sure defeat a fleet of that convetionally"?

It's nothing tio do with IQ loss. It better massivley better quality ships and massively better numbers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Over less quality ships and smaller numbers.

eaware decided to make the reapers unstoppable, unbeatable. For the sake of cheap drama and sick philosophy.
And to emphasis futility and hopelessness of resistance and fight them (un)conventionally with existing fleets, tactics and great military officers, to make the retarded crucible the only way to do something with reapers - they butchered the lore, and dumbed down almost every character, especially military officers and scientists.
Thus making ME3 a retarded clowns show.
This way, this became a story of crushing defeat, but not because of enemy effort, but because everyone was astonishingly retarded.

In another alternative universe, where ME3 is a standalone game with no prequels and with correct lore and not dumb characters - that could be an interesting story, with completely different moral then ME.

The first reaper ship you saw took on a fleet. And you later found out a fleet of ships just like sovergin , which dwarfs every fleet in the galexy combined in numbers, was coming.

Hell, they even advertied the reaper were unstopable from ME1.

This is not something that suddenly came up in ME3.

They were stopped in ME1.
There is many ways to make them from unstoppable to stoppable. EAWare just choose to make them that way. To tell completely different story from ME1 and ME2 with different and disgusting moral and philosophy.
For example, because of Shepard acts, reapers transit from dark space to a galaxy cost them 2/3 of their numbers, and others were seriously weakened. That still makes them not so brilliant by having only one backup plan for vanguard's(Sovereign) failure. But it is lightyears away better than what we we got.

One was stopped in ME1. And it took hell to stop that one reaper.Stopping one does not mean we can take on a fleet.

And if you going to say the trip weaken them show proof. Other wise, bs.

Show me one thing in ME1 and ME2 that state we can beat them conventionally.

So, you completely missed my point.
Comrade, take some basic logic courses. It could help.

Modifié par Maxster_, 03 octobre 2012 - 09:33 .

[SNascimento]

I think people are mistaken 1 reaper with The Reapers.
.
One reaper is not invencible, hell, this was state in ME3's codex more tha one time. Not to mention we saw one being torn apart in the Battle for Earth.
.
However, reapers as a whole, were in ME1, and still are unstoppable.
.
Cry about any retcon you want to see, any plothole that you think you dicovered, but reaper strength has been pretty constant in all three games.

[dreman9999]

Maxster_ wrote...


So, you completely missed my point.
Comrade, take some basic logic courses. It could help.

I'm not using logic? You basic arguement is that bw should make the stoppable just because with no reason or previous stated reason given.

You just want them to be stoppable. The fact you missing is that the reapers started as being unstoppable. BW not deciding on making them stoppable via convetional means after they said the reaper are unstoppable does not mean they sudden made them unstoppable. That just means they are following the orignal plan.

Stop say they sudenly are unstoppable...


They said it from ME1.

Modifié par dreman9999, 03 octobre 2012 - 09:47 .

[Maxster_]

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...


So, you completely missed my point.
Comrade, take some basic logic courses. It could help.

I'm not using logic? You basic arguement is that bw should make the stoppable just because with no reason or previous stated reason given.

You just want them to be stoppable. The fact you missing is that the reapers started as being unstoppable. BW not deciding on making them stoppable via convetional means after they said the reaper are unstoppable does not mean they sudden made them unstoppable. That just means they are following the orignal plan.

Stop say they sudenly are unstoppable...


They said it from ME1.

Nah, they had no original plan. And ME1 and ME2 games demonstrates that they are quite stoppable individually and ME3 demonstrated that they are stoppable in small groups.
Also, there is no information on how many reapers are out there, before ME3. And, no information about how long it will take them to get to a galaxy from a dark space prior to ME3.
Yeah, they are shown as invulnerable and unstoppable in ME3.
After ME1 and ME2, they could just stay trapped in dark space, with no means of returning.
Or their return could take 100-200 years.
Or they returned in half a year after ME2, but lost like 2/3 of their numbers, and in weakened state.

So, there are many ways, in which ME3 could progress. But instead, because of the failure of eaware authors, we got nonsensical retarded mess.

Modifié par Maxster_, 03 octobre 2012 - 10:03 .

[SNascimento]

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...


So, you completely missed my point.
Comrade, take some basic logic courses. It could help.

I'm not using logic? You basic arguement is that bw should make the stoppable just because with no reason or previous stated reason given.

You just want them to be stoppable. The fact you missing is that the reapers started as being unstoppable. BW not deciding on making them stoppable via convetional means after they said the reaper are unstoppable does not mean they sudden made them unstoppable. That just means they are following the orignal plan.

Stop say they sudenly are unstoppable...


They said it from ME1.

Nah, they had no original plan. And ME1 and ME2 games demonstrates that they are quite stoppable individually and ME3 demonstrated that they are stoppable in small groups.
Also, there is no information on how many reapers are out there, before ME3. And, no information about how long it will take them to get to a galaxy from a dark space prior to ME3.
Yeah, they are shown as invulnerable and unstoppable in ME3.
After ME1 and ME2, they could just stay trapped in dark space, with no means of returning.
Or their return could take 100-200 years.
Or they returned in half a year after ME2, but lost like 2/3 of their numbers, and in weakened state.

So, there are many ways, in which ME3 could progress. But instead, because of the failure of eaware authors, we got nonsensical retarded mess.

.
How the reapers lost 2/3 of their numbers exactly? 

[Maxster_]

SNascimento wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...


So, you completely missed my point.
Comrade, take some basic logic courses. It could help.

I'm not using logic? You basic arguement is that bw should make the stoppable just because with no reason or previous stated reason given.

You just want them to be stoppable. The fact you missing is that the reapers started as being unstoppable. BW not deciding on making them stoppable via convetional means after they said the reaper are unstoppable does not mean they sudden made them unstoppable. That just means they are following the orignal plan.

Stop say they sudenly are unstoppable...


They said it from ME1.

Nah, they had no original plan. And ME1 and ME2 games demonstrates that they are quite stoppable individually and ME3 demonstrated that they are stoppable in small groups.
Also, there is no information on how many reapers are out there, before ME3. And, no information about how long it will take them to get to a galaxy from a dark space prior to ME3.
Yeah, they are shown as invulnerable and unstoppable in ME3.
After ME1 and ME2, they could just stay trapped in dark space, with no means of returning.
Or their return could take 100-200 years.
Or they returned in half a year after ME2, but lost like 2/3 of their numbers, and in weakened state.

So, there are many ways, in which ME3 could progress. But instead, because of the failure of eaware authors, we got nonsensical retarded mess.

.
How the reapers lost 2/3 of their numbers exactly? 

Died because lack of energy needed to reach galaxy. Or killed by other reapers to get energy needed to reach the galaxy.
You want me to write entire new plot just for you? I'm no writer.

[SNascimento]

Maxster_ wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...


So, you completely missed my point.
Comrade, take some basic logic courses. It could help.

I'm not using logic? You basic arguement is that bw should make the stoppable just because with no reason or previous stated reason given.

You just want them to be stoppable. The fact you missing is that the reapers started as being unstoppable. BW not deciding on making them stoppable via convetional means after they said the reaper are unstoppable does not mean they sudden made them unstoppable. That just means they are following the orignal plan.

Stop say they sudenly are unstoppable...


They said it from ME1.

Nah, they had no original plan. And ME1 and ME2 games demonstrates that they are quite stoppable individually and ME3 demonstrated that they are stoppable in small groups.
Also, there is no information on how many reapers are out there, before ME3. And, no information about how long it will take them to get to a galaxy from a dark space prior to ME3.
Yeah, they are shown as invulnerable and unstoppable in ME3.
After ME1 and ME2, they could just stay trapped in dark space, with no means of returning.
Or their return could take 100-200 years.
Or they returned in half a year after ME2, but lost like 2/3 of their numbers, and in weakened state.

So, there are many ways, in which ME3 could progress. But instead, because of the failure of eaware authors, we got nonsensical retarded mess.

.
How the reapers lost 2/3 of their numbers exactly? 

Died because lack of energy needed to reach galaxy. Or killed by other reapers to get energy needed to reach the galaxy.
You want me to write entire new plot just for you? I'm no writer.

.
Huh? Where is this in the game?

[elitehunter34]

 I think it would disingenuous to say that the Reapers were never presented as being as strong as they were in Mass Effect 3.  Remember the entire plot of ME1 was trying to destroy one Reaper.  Shepard in the end knows that the entire Reaper fleet is now on its way to the galaxy.  One Reaper held off the Arcturus and the Citadel fleets for several minutes and it might have been able to do so for longer if destroying Saren didn't overload its shields.  Sovereign is clearly shown destroying Dreadnoughts in a single shot.  The Reapers weren't made ridiculously powerful in ME3, there were simply more of them.  

The fact is, there was never an exact number of Reapers given in ME1 or in ME2.  Sovereign said that the number of Reapers will darken the sky of every world.  ME2 showed us that the Reapesr can reproduce.  The Reapers have been around for over 1 billion years.  Put all of this together and to suggest that the Reapers numbers are in the thousands is not illogical to assume whatsoever.  Even with the improved technology of the different species fleets, they simply do not have the numbers to defeat the Reapers.

I just don't get why people still get so hung up on this.  A conventional victory is not the only way to make the horrible ending, and (mostly) lousy plot better.  I personally feel the Crucible could have been handled in a much better way, but simply making the Reapers weak enough to be defeated by a fleet only 95 or so Dreadnoughts strong when there is good reason to believe that there are thousands of capital ship class Reapers, would be just as silly of a plot.  

Modifié par elitehunter34, 03 octobre 2012 - 10:33 .

[Maxster_]

SNascimento wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...


So, you completely missed my point.
Comrade, take some basic logic courses. It could help.

I'm not using logic? You basic arguement is that bw should make the stoppable just because with no reason or previous stated reason given.

You just want them to be stoppable. The fact you missing is that the reapers started as being unstoppable. BW not deciding on making them stoppable via convetional means after they said the reaper are unstoppable does not mean they sudden made them unstoppable. That just means they are following the orignal plan.

Stop say they sudenly are unstoppable...


They said it from ME1.

Nah, they had no original plan. And ME1 and ME2 games demonstrates that they are quite stoppable individually and ME3 demonstrated that they are stoppable in small groups.
Also, there is no information on how many reapers are out there, before ME3. And, no information about how long it will take them to get to a galaxy from a dark space prior to ME3.
Yeah, they are shown as invulnerable and unstoppable in ME3.
After ME1 and ME2, they could just stay trapped in dark space, with no means of returning.
Or their return could take 100-200 years.
Or they returned in half a year after ME2, but lost like 2/3 of their numbers, and in weakened state.

So, there are many ways, in which ME3 could progress. But instead, because of the failure of eaware authors, we got nonsensical retarded mess.

.
How the reapers lost 2/3 of their numbers exactly? 

Died because lack of energy needed to reach galaxy. Or killed by other reapers to get energy needed to reach the galaxy.
You want me to write entire new plot just for you? I'm no writer.

.
Huh? Where is this in the game?

You too having problem with basic logic comprehension? Or post is too big to read?
I've said that there is many ways, in which ME3 could have been made, instead of plothole-ridden retarded mess that we've got.

Modifié par Maxster_, 03 octobre 2012 - 10:35 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

Some things to think about when talking about Sovereign. The Alliance only has 6 dreadnoughts in 2183. If we make the assumption that each Alliance fleet has at least one dreadnought to serve as a flagship, then the Fifth Fleet would have at most two dreadnoughts. The bulk of the fleet is comprised of cruisers, which have much lighter firepower. If four dreadnoughts are required to take down a Sovereign-class Reaper, then the Fifth Fleet alone may be enough for Sovvy. Keep in mind that the Destiny Ascension was also being mauled by geth warships.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 03 octobre 2012 - 10:40 .

[AlanC9]

SNascimento wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
Died because lack of energy needed to reach galaxy. Or killed by other reapers to get energy needed to reach the galaxy.
You want me to write entire new plot just for you? I'm no writer.

.
Huh? Where is this in the game?

He's making stuff up for an alternative plot.

[Mahrac]

can we please snip the damned quote pyramids?

[SNascimento]

Maxster_ wrote...

You too having problem with basic logic comprehension? Or post is too big to read?
I've said that there is many ways, in which ME3 could have been made, instead of plothole-ridden retarded mess that we've got.

.

[Maxster_]

elitehunter34 wrote...

 I think it would disingenuous to say that the Reapers were never presented as being as strong as they were in Mass Effect 3.  Remember the entire plot of ME1 was trying to destroy one Reaper.  Shepard in the end knows that the entire Reaper fleet is now on its way to the galaxy.  One Reaper held off the Arcturus and the Citadel fleets for several minutes and it might have been able to do so for longer if destroying Saren didn't overload its shields.  Sovereign is clearly shown destroying Dreadnoughts in a single shot.  The Reapers weren't made ridiculously powerful in ME3, there were simply more of them.  

The fact is, there was never an exact number of Reapers given in ME1 or in ME2.  Sovereign said that the number of Reapers will darken the sky of every world.  ME2 showed us that the Reapesr can reproduce.  The Reapers have been around for over 1 billion years.  Put all of this together and to suggest that the Reapers numbers are in the thousands is not illogical to assume whatsoever.  Even with the improved technology of the different species fleets, they simply do not have the numbers to defeat the Reapers.

"Darken the sky of every world" is not an evidence. Because a) in our galaxy we have 200-400 billions of stars there also was "We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite. Millions of years after your civilization has been eradicated and forgotten, we will endure".

I just don't get why people still get so hung up on this.  A conventional victory is not the only way to make the horrible ending, and (mostly) lousy plot better.  I personally feel the Crucible could have been handled in a much better way, but simply making the Reapers weak enough to be defeated by a fleet only 95 or so Dreadnoughts strong when there is good reason to believe that there are thousands of capital ship class Reapers, would be just as silly of a plot.  

And instead we got good plot, with brilliant characters and strict & coherent lore and coherent event flow.

There is a lot more way even with superweapons, or weakened reapers, or both. And of course without retarded catalyst. But the way in which crucible was presented, is utterly retarded and unscientific.