451 réponses à ce sujet

[nopantsisabela]

I just got on BSN for the first time in months and happened to see some thread debating if conventional victory should have been possible or not. This reminded me of one reason that I was so confused by the ME3 ending: was anyone else expecting the whole theme of cooperation to be the ultimate reason why "this time" the Reapers could be beaten? 

In my opinion, the "if we work together, we can do anything!" theme was a pretty heavy one all throughout ME1 and 2 and then during the Thessia mission in ME3 the VI pretty much tells you that this cycle's sentient races are much more unified and therin might lie your salvation.

I totally expected this to be the reason for your victory over the Reapers, and it seemed really fitting. In order for conventional victory to be possible, this cycle would have to have something that other cycles didn't, and ultimately, the reason for this cycle being so unified is Shepard (who's been the main instigator of all the cooperative activity between the different races).

Just curious if anyone else had felt similarly about this.

[MyChemicalBromance]

I actively hoped that wasn't going to be the case. That's a story that belongs in Care Bears; not Mass Effect.

To each their own opinion, but I was thrilled when this turned out to not be the case.

[MyChemicalBromance]

To clarify: although all the races do come together to build the Crucible, and the Crucible is ultimately the collective work of many dead civilizations, it would have been really narrative-breaking for me if the Reapers could be defeated conventionally by "Teamwork."

Modifié par MyChemicalBromance, 03 octobre 2012 - 06:41 .

[Massa FX]

I didn't know what to expect other than beating down the Reapers and a showdown with Harbinger.

...

[Bill Casey]

Synthesis is a story that belongs in care bears...
You use a laser beam to make everyone get along...
It also has the same disturbing implications as care bears...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 03 octobre 2012 - 06:18 .

[Robhuzz]

After ME1 I didn't know what to expect. I figured the Reapers would be explained a bit in ME2 and we'd find some weakness to exploit.

After ME2 I thought ME3 would probably not start with an invasion since we still didn't have any clue on how to fight them.

When the first ME3 trailer showed the Reapers attacking Earth and beating the pulp out of everyone and everything right in the beginning with no clue as to how to fight them, I knew we were most likely in for a deus ex machina. I hate it when I'm right sometimes...

Though I expected a deus ex machina by then I held hope that it would not simply be a Reaper off button - I really thought the ME team was more talented than that - but sadly it wasn't to be.

[nopantsisabela]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

I actively hoped that wasn't going to be the case. That's a story that belongs in Care Bears; not Mass Effect.

To each their own opinion, but I was thrilled when this turned out to not be the case.

Having no experience with the Care Bears, I'll just have to trust that this would be something appropriate for them...  But I will say that I thought Mass Effect had quite enough blood, angst, and Krogan headbutting to make it clear that it was not a cuddly children's tale.

That said, I don't see why a "war story" can't have some intelligent diplomacy at work behind all the big guns and explosions. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" concept is one that's served many victorious leaders in real life.

EDIT: Perhaps I should have made it clearer that I wasn't expecting to beat the Reapers through "rainbow teamwork  sparkles" or anything. Obviously, I expected there to be some subtlety to the implementation of that concept, in line with the way the whole cooperation theme has already been presented in the trilogy (choices like, save the 7th Fleet, or save the Council, etc). My point was just that I expected the unification of races theme to play a much larger role in the reason for our victory, and to be a major advantage of this cycle.

Modifié par nopantsisabela, 03 octobre 2012 - 06:35 .

[Ithurael]

I expected it for one major victory but in the end I honestly was expecting some super weapon and a deity-like character to end the Reaper conflict.

[.PHANTOM]

Massa FX wrote...

I didn't know what to expect other than beating down the Reapers and a showdown with Harbinger.

...

Same, I knew they were going down, but didn't think we would go down with them, or get it handed to us, though team work when i say it out loud seems played out, weakening the reapers or having the crucible do what happened to Sovereign might have been awesome, and if you lost some species aid, their would be some consequences, might have been sweet, but whatever.

[Bill Casey]

Seriously though, synthesis is the care bears ending...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 03 octobre 2012 - 06:39 .

[LucasShark]

YES: it's what the whole setting up conflicts and then making them resolvable was pointing toward, it was what the choice between alien accepting and xenophobe Shepard was leaning toward, it was what Anderson's "unite the races" order was leading up toward... and then for nought...

[CaIIisto]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Although all the races do come together to build the Crucible, it just would have been really narrative-breaking for me if the Reapers could be defeated conventionally by "Teamwork."

I don't know. Compared to space magic, teamwork comes across as positvely genius.

[JamesFaith]

No.

I expect cooperation would be just part of victory. In fact I expect something like Crucible (of course I didn't know details), because there is limited number of ways how to win similar war and ancient weapon was most probable one.

[Reorte]

I expected that cooperation would be necessary but not all that was required. I was expecting something damned clever and impressive on top of that, unfortunately.

[ShepnTali]

Your expectations were reasonable OP.

[dreamgazer]

Not cooperation, precisely, but collective ingenuity in assembling a weapon (yeah, a Crucible-like device) that pushes the envelope of the galaxy's scientific capabilities, instead of following long-lost Prothean plans. Going with the latter idea adds a layer of mystery, but it comes at the expense of some unnecessary obscurity and theorizing without more clear-cut answers.

And I thought the Protheans would be involved in the construction, but more through Shepard's visions from the beacons instead of random plans unearthed by somebody else.

[MyChemicalBromance]

Bill Casey wrote...

That was not worth waiting for you to figure out how to use the forums. Next time shop them together.

[Bill Casey]

[KENNY4753]

I didn't expect a conventional victory like the galaxy versus the Reapers. I expected something to help us fight them conventionally. If anything the Crucible should have weakened the Reapers and then we take them out if our EMS is high enough.

Instead we get a super weapon that turns out to be a Reaper off-switch and give us an A, B, C ending like BW told us we wouldn't get.

[ShepnTali]

I love you, you love me... lol. That's what we got. Reapers be misunderstood.

[Samtheman63]

no

reapers could annihilate us all if they wanted, easily. They need organics to be processed or else they cant create anymore reapers.

hence why they don't just blow up a planet at a time and instead use cannibals, geth, collectors, indoctrination etc.

so if we ever came close to winning in a straight fight, they'd go up a gear or 2

[MyChemicalBromance]

Samtheman63 wrote...

no

reapers could annihilate us all if they wanted, easily. They need organics to be processed or else they cant create anymore reapers.

hence why they don't just blow up a planet at a time and instead use cannibals, geth, collectors, indoctrination etc.

so if we ever came close to winning in a straight fight, they'd go up a gear or 2

This. It's also implied that they are capable of destroying stars (the Protheans were able to, so I assume the Reapers would as well).

You don't win against something like that.

Modifié par MyChemicalBromance, 03 octobre 2012 - 06:45 .

[Bill Casey]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

That was not worth waiting for you to figure out how to use the forums. Next time shop them together.

You messed up bad by mentioning the care bears...
Synthesis is the care bears ending...

They don't fight an epic war conventionally as the underdog...
They use a laser beam to make people get along...

You're thinking of ewoks...

http://t3.gstatic.co...xxgnhMVH4tY3O_Q

Modifié par Bill Casey, 03 octobre 2012 - 06:50 .

[DiebytheSword]

I honestly thought that the work together thing would work as it has in ME3; helps you through to the end, but that, in and and of itself, wouldn't be what brings the Reapers to their defeat.

[MyChemicalBromance]

Bill Casey wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

That was not worth waiting for you to figure out how to use the forums. Next time shop them together.

You messed up bad by mentioning the care bears...
Synthesis is the care bears ending...

They don't fight an epic war conventionally...
They use a laser beam to make people get along...

You're thinking of ewoks...

For that analogy to work, the Care Bear laser would need to turn everyone into Care Bears.