451 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainne Chapel]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...


Thats alo the other problem, we DO have weapons that can cut through shields but their range is far superior to ours in that respect not to mention their shield technology outweighs ours thanks to their massive cores.

Then we have to figure not EVERY ship has access to thanix missles or cannons, and that our fleets are not even at full strength during the last push and they cana lso one shot most of our ships no problem (not to mention ram through them with no effect as sovy showed).

While I'm not against beating them in a battle, I dont think ME3 rampe dup their power all that much either, all ME3 did is give them massive nu mbers, and thas really ALL they need after ME1.  

i have an old saying for you ..

"nukem til they glow, then shootem in the dark"


directed energy weapons, heat, radiation what ever bypass the shields ... everything that delivers energy by wavelenght bypasses KINETIC barriers with ease. we should jut warm up the nukes and put on our sunblocker factor 4 billion and let them boil away at 100 miilion °C.

we COULD do that... but then since they ARE technologically superiror to us, whose to say they couldnt turn it against us FIRST.  Dont forget they have better range and stronger guns to boot

All they'd have to do is hack our ships and turn off our life support and we'd be screwed!

[Aiyie]

Urdnot Amenark wrote...


The Catalyst is not a deus ex machina since it's been alluded to since the very beginning of the game when mention of the Crucible was first revealed and is clearly pointed out as a component necessary to defeat the Reapers. It's a MacGuffin. What its actual nature is has no bearing on it.

whether you feel its a macguffin or a deus ex machina depends entirely on whether you are viewing ME3 as the final act in a three part storyline or a seperate storyline of its own.

if you feel that ME3 is its own story, then sure, since the catalyst/crucible is introduced at the beginning of the story, its not a deus ex machina.

i tend to believe that's not the case though, with ME1 being the act that introduces us to the major characters, their motivations and the primary antogonist.  ME2 acts as the middle act, providing the build-up and anticipation of the conclusion.  and then there's ME3... the story's conclusion, wherein a plot device is introduced with zero allusions to its existence and significance in the previous acts...

to me that's a deus ex machina.

[nopantsisabela]

Aiyie wrote...

Urdnot Amenark wrote...


The Catalyst is not a deus ex machina since it's been alluded to since the very beginning of the game when mention of the Crucible was first revealed and is clearly pointed out as a component necessary to defeat the Reapers. It's a MacGuffin. What its actual nature is has no bearing on it.

whether you feel its a macguffin or a deus ex machina depends entirely on whether you are viewing ME3 as the final act in a three part storyline or a seperate storyline of its own.

if you feel that ME3 is its own story, then sure, since the catalyst/crucible is introduced at the beginning of the story, its not a deus ex machina.

i tend to believe that's not the case though, with ME1 being the act that introduces us to the major characters, their motivations and the primary antogonist.  ME2 acts as the middle act, providing the build-up and anticipation of the conclusion.  and then there's ME3... the story's conclusion, wherein a plot device is introduced with zero allusions to its existence and significance in the previous acts...

to me that's a deus ex machina.

Thanks Aiyie, you beat me to it.

[Dr_Extrem]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

we COULD do that... but then since they ARE technologically superiror to us, whose to say they couldnt turn it against us FIRST.  Dont forget they have better range and stronger guns to boot

All they'd have to do is hack our ships and turn off our life support and we'd be screwed!

well ... 100 million°C on reaction, then 300k°C in its detonation centre are nothint to take lightly. and a nuke is a pretty simple construction, that works without computers.

but since you show the technical prowess of the reaper that way, we can be glad that the super weapen works at all.  

[Maxster_]

dreman9999 wrote...

darthoptimus003 wrote...

yes
that was the whole point
get everyone together for a united front
then kick the crap out of the reapers and send them cryin to there mommys

Hacket told you togather forcesto deliver the crucible. Not to beat them conventionally. Nothing in the this game, or the past games show that is possible.

Hey kid, have you learned about inelastic collisions and conservation of linear momentum? Or at least Newton's laws atleast?
I like concept of "indirect hit" of a Harbringer's main gun, that allowed Shepard to survive. It have weight,

[Cainne Chapel]

I agree Dr. I'm just saying since we have THAT at our disposal... imagine what else they can bring to the party against us.

Plus i'm sure using the nuke we'd have to be a reasonably close distance, and how do we know they cant dodge or shoot it downs ince they ARE faster than us, they've also had a billion years of weapons tech, etc.

and lets face it, those cruisers aren't exactly shooting at them with pea shooters either.

But a giant equivalent of a Cain MAY be useful

[Maxster_]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

we COULD do that... but then since they ARE technologically superiror to us, whose to say they couldnt turn it against us FIRST.  Dont forget they have better range and stronger guns to boot

All they'd have to do is hack our ships and turn off our life support and we'd be screwed!

well ... 100 million°C on reaction, then 300k°C in its detonation centre are nothint to take lightly. and a nuke is a pretty simple construction, that works without computers.

but since you show the technical prowess of the reaper that way, we can be glad that the super weapen works at all.  

Main power of the nuke is the shockwave(which needs atmosphere), heat and hard radiation. And reapers not very vulnerable to radiation, they live in space.

[Cainne Chapel]

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

darthoptimus003 wrote...

yes
that was the whole point
get everyone together for a united front
then kick the crap out of the reapers and send them cryin to there mommys

Hacket told you togather forcesto deliver the crucible. Not to beat them conventionally. Nothing in the this game, or the past games show that is possible.

Hey kid, have you learned about inelastic collisions and conservation of linear momentum? Or at least Newton's laws atleast?
I like concept of "indirect hit" of a Harbringer's main gun, that allowed Shepard to survive. It have weight,

Dont forget shepard ALSO has the strongest literary device of all time.

Plot Armor.

Only thing that can defeat it is the writers pen!

[Maxster_]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

darthoptimus003 wrote...

yes
that was the whole point
get everyone together for a united front
then kick the crap out of the reapers and send them cryin to there mommys

Hacket told you togather forcesto deliver the crucible. Not to beat them conventionally. Nothing in the this game, or the past games show that is possible.

Hey kid, have you learned about inelastic collisions and conservation of linear momentum? Or at least Newton's laws atleast?
I like concept of "indirect hit" of a Harbringer's main gun, that allowed Shepard to survive. It have weight,

Dont forget shepard ALSO has the strongest literary device of all time.

Plot Armor.

Only thing that can defeat it is the writers pen!

Just like that
Good luck dodging that

Modifié par Maxster_, 05 octobre 2012 - 09:49 .

[Dr_Extrem]

Maxster_ wrote...

Main power of the nuke is the shockwave(which needs atmosphere), heat and hard radiation. And reapers not very vulnerable to radiation, they live in space.

depends on the kind of radiation. light is radiation, heat is radiation and gamma rays are radiation as well. gamma radiation can only be weakened by interaction with matter.

our solar system is full of radiation sources. the sun is the most prominent and obvious. common knowledge says, that earth is protected by a magnetic field, that protects us from radiation - but that is only half the truth. it protects us from charged particles, that are radioactive (mostly alpha- and beta emitors). a magnetic field, no matter how strong, can reflect or mitigate gamma radiation, wich is a wavelength. traces of gamma radiation, röntgen radiation and other high energy radiations are consumed, by interacting with our atmosphere (not the magnetic field). lower ultraviolet, visible light and infrared radiation are not entirely absorbed and make this place warm and bright. the "van allen belt" is a stream of deflected charged particles - not electromagnetic (gamma) radiation.

what is a shockwave? ... a shockwave is matter, that is accelerated to high speed - KINETIC energy. a reaper shield would absorb the kinetic energy of a shockwave - but not the irresistable heat, that would boil away the outer plating all together the barrier emittors.

the power of a nuclear explosion is endless and absorbable. how is this energy absorbed on earth? must of it is transformed into kinetic energy, by pushing matter (gas and particles) away from the explosion. another big chunk is consumed by building nitrous oxides and ozone.

in space, all the energy can not be consumed, because of the ultimate lack of matter to interact with - but the energy is still there.


sir isaac newton is not the only deadly sonofab***h in space.

[Dean_the_Young]

Aiyie wrote...

Urdnot Amenark wrote...


The Catalyst is not a deus ex machina since it's been alluded to since the very beginning of the game when mention of the Crucible was first revealed and is clearly pointed out as a component necessary to defeat the Reapers. It's a MacGuffin. What its actual nature is has no bearing on it.

whether you feel its a macguffin or a deus ex machina depends entirely on whether you are viewing ME3 as the final act in a three part storyline or a seperate storyline of its own.

if you feel that ME3 is its own story, then sure, since the catalyst/crucible is introduced at the beginning of the story, its not a deus ex machina.

i tend to believe that's not the case though, with ME1 being the act that introduces us to the major characters, their motivations and the primary antogonist.  ME2 acts as the middle act, providing the build-up and anticipation of the conclusion.  and then there's ME3... the story's conclusion, wherein a plot device is introduced with zero allusions to its existence and significance in the previous acts...

to me that's a deus ex machina.

Even if you look at it in terms of the trilogy as a whole, it's still introduced two-thirds of the way in the story. A third of a story is not 'the final act.'

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 05 octobre 2012 - 10:16 .

[Maxster_]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Main power of the nuke is the shockwave(which needs atmosphere), heat and hard radiation. And reapers not very vulnerable to radiation, they live in space.

depends on the kind of radiation. light is radiation, heat is radiation and gamma rays are radiation as well. gamma radiation can only be weakened by interaction with matter.

our solar system is full of radiation sources. the sun is the most prominent and obvious. common knowledge says, that earth is protected by a magnetic field, that protects us from radiation - but that is only half the truth. it protects us from charged particles, that are radioactive (mostly alpha- and beta emitors). a magnetic field, no matter how strong, can reflect or mitigate gamma radiation, wich is a wavelength. traces of gamma radiation, röntgen radiation and other high energy radiations are consumed, by interacting with our atmosphere (not the magnetic field). lower ultraviolet, visible light and infrared radiation are not entirely absorbed and make this place warm and bright. the "van allen belt" is a stream of deflected charged particles - not electromagnetic (gamma) radiation.

what is a shockwave? ... a shockwave is matter, that is accelerated to high speed - KINETIC energy. a reaper shield would absorb the kinetic energy of a shockwave - but not the irresistable heat, that would boil away the outer plating all together the barrier emittors.

the power of a nuclear explosion is endless and absorbable. how is this energy absorbed on earth? must of it is transformed into kinetic energy, by pushing matter (gas and particles) away from the explosion. another big chunk is consumed by building nitrous oxides and ozone.

in space, all the energy can not be consumed, because of the ultimate lack of matter to interact with - but the energy is still there.


sir isaac newton is not the only deadly sonofab***h in space.

Things, energy of the nuke are dispersed  on all sides, and it is not concentrated. If we could just concentrate even only hard radiation(gamma wave length specifically)..
Also, you know that "heat" is only function of atoms fluctuations. "Heat" transmits by radiation.
So, specific concentration and energy of stream of gamma wave radiation, could do many wounderful things to a solid material like metals.

Also, there is some doubts about particles and kinetic shields. Air constists of a particles too.

P.S. High gravity can also deflect radiation, but we are not in Honorverse

[Dean_the_Young]

darthoptimus003 wrote...

read the codex it has stated several instinces of us takin out reaper forces and its shown us that the reapers arnt invincible

What several instances of winning battles over major Reaper forces are there?

Even the Miracle of Palaven only stalled the Reapers. It didn't reverse the tide or stop their conquest of Palaven.

and like i said dont care how we win as long as i dont commit mass genocide in the process and listen to the reapers leader which is complete BS

If you destroy the Reapers by any means you aare complicit in mass genocide.

and sovvy had the geth remember he wasnt alone he used them as fodder

When Sovereign was being pummled by the Alliance fleet alone, it didn't have Geth support.

[Dr_Extrem]

Maxster_ wrote...


Things, energy of the nuke are dispersed  on all sides, and it is not concentrated. If we could just concentrate even only hard radiation(gamma wave length specifically)..
Also, you know that "heat" is only function of atoms fluctuations. "Heat" transmits by radiation.
So, specific concentration and energy of stream of gamma wave radiation, could do many wounderful things to a solid material like metals.

Also, there is some doubts about particles and kinetic shields. Air constists of a particles too.

P.S. High gravity can also deflect radiation, but we are not in Honorverse

the gravity has to very high .. like ... black hole high ... or something in that dimention.

what if we send our reaper friends a nuclear suppository? .. could be interesting to watch. 
 
infrared em radiation is the heat transmitter - it would led the atoms of the hull dance like hell, till it loses its structural cohernece and ultimatly boils away. mhmm .. the neutrons led out by the explosion could also do a lot of damage .. either by friction or direct interaction with atoms of the hull.

we do not even need to vapourise the reaper .. we just need to inflict enough damage to the outer hull, where the barrier emiters are positioned. are those emiters resistant to high radiation levels? 

 without its shields, a reaper is a sitting duck waiting for the coup de grâce.

[Dean_the_Young]

And what will we do if the Reapers run away and start blowing up stars?

[Maxster_]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...


Things, energy of the nuke are dispersed  on all sides, and it is not concentrated. If we could just concentrate even only hard radiation(gamma wave length specifically)..
Also, you know that "heat" is only function of atoms fluctuations. "Heat" transmits by radiation.
So, specific concentration and energy of stream of gamma wave radiation, could do many wounderful things to a solid material like metals.

Also, there is some doubts about particles and kinetic shields. Air constists of a particles too.

P.S. High gravity can also deflect radiation, but we are not in Honorverse

the gravity has to very high .. like ... black hole high ... or something in that dimention.

"Honor Harrington", D. Weber.
Well, there is a whole other level of technology, ME is lightyears away behind.

what if we send our reaper friends a nuclear suppository? .. could be interesting to watch. 
 

Well, if we could detonate nuke inside the reapers - well, we already done that on Palaven.

infrared em radiation is the heat transmitter - it would led the atoms of the hull dance like hell, till it loses its structural cohernece and ultimatly boils away. mhmm .. the neutrons led out by the explosion could also do a lot of damage .. either by friction or direct interaction with atoms of the hull.

we do not even need to vapourise the reaper .. we just need to inflict enough damage to the outer hull, where the barrier emiters are positioned. are those emiters resistant to high radiation levels? 

 without its shields, a reaper is a sitting duck waiting for the coup de grâce.

Actually, how material affected by a radiation, is strictly tied to wave length.
Also, gamma radiation(rentgen too) affects material, and transfering part of energy to atoms of said material.

Well, we know about reaper structual density something. 1) it is easily penetrated by a frigate shot(Sovereign) 2) reapers falling on ground in EC Destroy didn't shattered to pieces.

Modifié par Maxster_, 05 octobre 2012 - 10:43 .

[Maxster_]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

And what will we do if the Reapers run away and start blowing up stars?

By magic?

[Dr_Extrem]

ok .. lets warm up the nukes and win this war unconventionally conventional.

[M Hedonist]

I expected a conventional victory through anything. Be it through uniting the galaxy, using clever battle strategies (how about baiting the Reapers into a galaxy and then destroying the Mass Relay of that galaxy?), some scientific stuff (using the Mass Relays to slingshot meteors?), contacting another galaxy - anything that doesn't involve some silly mystery device we happened to find blue prints for

[AlanC9]

Maxster_ wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

And what will we do if the Reapers run away and start blowing up stars?

By magic?

Not quite sure where Dean's going with that.

 How about they avoid our fleets and bomb planets?

[Cainne Chapel]

Wait.... I thought of it!

A Giant Black hole cannon installed on every frigate! A bigger version of the one Shep gets from ME2.... that would work!

[Dean_the_Young]

Maxster_ wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

And what will we do if the Reapers run away and start blowing up stars?

By magic?

By technology. The Protheans did it as a weapon of war, after all.

[Dean_the_Young]

AlanC9 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

And what will we do if the Reapers run away and start blowing up stars?

By magic?

Not quite sure where Dean's going with that.

Javik's people crushed one species by blowing up the star of their planet. What's to stop the Reapers from doing the same?

 How about they avoid our fleets and bomb planets?

That too, though the answer 'kinetic barriers' could defend against that.

[Dr_Extrem]

the reapers could do that but would be against their coding .... they are programed to preserve life by absorbing them into their own "kind". they do that on a repeating base.

destroying a star system would mean to destroy the base of a new civilisation that could grow and prosper there. they may have no problem with mass accelerator bombardment of planets but blowing up suns could jeperdise the cycle.

i think that this scenario is very unlikely.

[Maxster_]

AlanC9 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

And what will we do if the Reapers run away and start blowing up stars?

By magic?

Not quite sure where Dean's going with that.

 How about they avoid our fleets and bomb planets?

They did perfectly that, on some occasions, when retardation syndrome was temporarity lifted.
Warfare is always about adapting, changing. If you not adapt, change, think - then you are failed officer.