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[Maxster_]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

You know, dreadnoughts main gun minimum estimated power is twice the 38kt impact power of the Earth Alliance dreadnought.
That means 80kt explosion. And that means, that you need only a several reapers, to completely level a megapolis in one volley.
And then they can just jump away in a few minutes.
How can you defend against that? Only by defending everything valuable on the surface.

City-scale kinetic barriers, which already exist in the lore, can handle that sort of load. It's actually a viable defense against FTL-missiles as well.

Strong, rich worlds (as any civilization capable of deterring the Reapers conventionally would need to have) could build a network of these barriers to defend their key terrains. Once a planet is sufficiently guarded from bombardment, you either would have to directly land (which exposes you to the enemy's conventional forces) or attempt a seige to wear-down the kinetic barriers (which can be disrupted by the defending fleets).

Problems is, that weapons of that scale could easily destroy ecology. Unless you are protecting entire planets by shields, they could just randomly or simultaneously bomb uprotected places, completely destroying(not momentarily, but tonns of dust will have effect and in a short time) ecology.
Also, that implies, that fleets are a lot more numerous than reapers, as they can protect a lot of worlds from wearing-down defenses. Or this worlds are concentrated around some relays.

Real danger for reapers(as from any other fleet) is only fleets. You can't defend from them with ground forces.

With sufficient ground-based defenses, you can. Planetary defense canons are viable anti-ship defenses (as seen on Tuchanka), while ground-based defenses can be hardened from orbital bombardment (such as Saren's base on Virmire was, which was the reason for the nuclear bomb) and forces protected.

With the ability to turtle up, ground forces can deter enemy landings. A Reaper doesn't have to land in the first place, but in order to do so it exposes itself to risk. As long as the Reapers are stuck above the planet, industry below the planet can continue on anti-Reaper production tracks (either by producing those fleets, or by producing super-weapons such as the Crucible).

I'm sorry, but ground cannons can not be a viable defense. It is a support maximum.
You need fleets to shoot down reapers, if you do not want a constant bombardment(wearing down. So it is only temporarily and slowing them down.
Question is, it is enough to slow down, for fleet to arrive, or not.

So they need to spread fleets thin and destroy by parts, not thicken fleets by destroying points those fleets defend.

As long as the infrastructure to support, maintain, and replace the fleets remains intact, the fleets can not only act but also recover. Attritional warfare fails if you can not destroy the enemy at a faster rate than it can produce new units. As the Reapers primary advantage in a peer-competitor engagement would be their quality, not quantity (as the organics would have quanity of inferior vessels in order to be a peer-competitor), they can not afford to lose attritionally.

Targetting the few places the fleets can defend, besides offering the potential for a decisive naval battle if you so choose, changes the acceptable attrition rates for both sides.

For reapers it would be about not to lose ships. So they need to attack smaller parts of fleets, not destroy planets, so the fleets could became more numerous per planet.
Well, if fleets are numerous enough, to protect every planet(or react fast enough and with enough power to stop entire reaper fleet) than reapers already lost.
Well, then they can blow the suns, but for what? They can not create new reapers, if they annhilate everyone. And fleets easily evade that.
And i doubt that reapers could destroy sun by pressing one button. So there is high probabilty of interception and annihilation by allied fleets.

[dreman9999]

thehomeworld wrote...

I thought while we were pinned down near the transport beam that we'd get the news, " BTW the crucible doesn't work!" Then we'd be forced to scramble a new plan together and ultimately use the might of our army to win against the reapers maybe shep could've used the signal trick to make the reapers all drop their shields since shep alone knows were the citadel control unit is and how to activate it you know bring back a known element from ME and send a signal that confuses the reapers so the fleets can win.

There was a point to us having to get as many forces to unit as we could it's just BW didn't see it that way and decided a fourth antagonist and a brand new plot was just what we needed in the last 10 minute of the game.

This point was made even more glaring when we got the Lev dlc because I'm sorry lev is a freaking win card! Those things should've done what the packaging implied they would kill lots of reapers in a big blood bath via shep and their crystals which they did have on the citadel at the very least. Earth also should've sustained 80% less casualties on the ground, all reapers in shep's way would have shep blank out and the Lev's would destroy them similar to how they did one their rentaworld.

Lev should've impacted and changed the outcome of the war but then as a trade forced shep to take control of any unslaughtered reapers and then you'd also get a brand new ending not ren shep saying how they're going to force the world to work as they say but it would've been a para shep saying how it wasn't their choice or a ren one saying they could understand why Lev wanted to do this but both alignments would hate how bad things got since both alignments were fighting for the preservation of the whole and Lev just wants to stomp on it and then Lev can come on and say how great they think their bloody utopia is (for them at least). But again BW proves that a huge kick as force = nothing.

You don't last second plan a destruction of a reaper fleet.

Added...It took 3 Leviathan to take one and thewas with help with the orb amps.....And it need to be in close range. That can't take a fleet.

[Urdnot Amenark]

thehomeworld wrote...

I thought while we were pinned down near the transport beam that we'd get the news, " BTW the crucible doesn't work!" Then we'd be forced to scramble a new plan together and ultimately use the might of our army to win against the reapers maybe shep could've used the signal trick to make the reapers all drop their shields since shep alone knows were the citadel control unit is and how to activate it you know bring back a known element from ME and send a signal that confuses the reapers so the fleets can win.

There was a point to us having to get as many forces to unit as we could it's just BW didn't see it that way and decided a fourth antagonist and a brand new plot was just what we needed in the last 10 minute of the game.

This point was made even more glaring when we got the Lev dlc because I'm sorry lev is a freaking win card! Those things should've done what the packaging implied they would kill lots of reapers in a big blood bath via shep and their crystals which they did have on the citadel at the very least. Earth also should've sustained 80% less casualties on the ground, all reapers in shep's way would have shep blank out and the Lev's would destroy them similar to how they did one their rentaworld.

Lev should've impacted and changed the outcome of the war but then as a trade forced shep to take control of any unslaughtered reapers and then you'd also get a brand new ending not ren shep saying how they're going to force the world to work as they say but it would've been a para shep saying how it wasn't their choice or a ren one saying they could understand why Lev wanted to do this but both alignments would hate how bad things got since both alignments were fighting for the preservation of the whole and Lev just wants to stomp on it and then Lev can come on and say how great they think their bloody utopia is (for them at least). But again BW proves that a huge kick as force = nothing.

I like that DLC, but that is my biggest criticism. Why create a DLC and plotline about some "reaper killing" force that ultimately doesn't impact the ending or outcome meaningfully? It was a massive waste of potential.

[dreman9999]

Urdnot Amenark wrote...

thehomeworld wrote...

I thought while we were pinned down near the transport beam that we'd get the news, " BTW the crucible doesn't work!" Then we'd be forced to scramble a new plan together and ultimately use the might of our army to win against the reapers maybe shep could've used the signal trick to make the reapers all drop their shields since shep alone knows were the citadel control unit is and how to activate it you know bring back a known element from ME and send a signal that confuses the reapers so the fleets can win.

There was a point to us having to get as many forces to unit as we could it's just BW didn't see it that way and decided a fourth antagonist and a brand new plot was just what we needed in the last 10 minute of the game.

This point was made even more glaring when we got the Lev dlc because I'm sorry lev is a freaking win card! Those things should've done what the packaging implied they would kill lots of reapers in a big blood bath via shep and their crystals which they did have on the citadel at the very least. Earth also should've sustained 80% less casualties on the ground, all reapers in shep's way would have shep blank out and the Lev's would destroy them similar to how they did one their rentaworld.

Lev should've impacted and changed the outcome of the war but then as a trade forced shep to take control of any unslaughtered reapers and then you'd also get a brand new ending not ren shep saying how they're going to force the world to work as they say but it would've been a para shep saying how it wasn't their choice or a ren one saying they could understand why Lev wanted to do this but both alignments would hate how bad things got since both alignments were fighting for the preservation of the whole and Lev just wants to stomp on it and then Lev can come on and say how great they think their bloody utopia is (for them at least). But again BW proves that a huge kick as force = nothing.

I like that DLC, but that is my biggest criticism. Why create a DLC and plotline about some "reaper killing" force that ultimately doesn't impact the ending or outcome meaningfully? It was a massive waste of potential.

How can something that can only stop one reaper at a time stop a flet of them?

[Maxster_]

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...


Prove me, that liquid(water) of the same mass and speed is more piercing than a chunk of metal(i'll make it easier, cubic form, iron).
With formulaes, of course.

Why? How do we know the mass of what a thanix gun or reaper gun shots any thing the same mass as a regular slug....Added it's shoting molton metal.

Because you said yet another stupid thing. So prove me that liquid is more piercing than a chunk of metal.

Added, I already proven that how the slug is design desides impact.

Even the codex says this...http://masseffect.wi...ss_Accelerators
The slug is designed to squash or shatter on impact, increasing the energy it transfers to the target. If this were not the case, it would simply punch a hole right through, doing minimal damage.


Where in the codex does it say thanix canoons and reaper cannon are designed for heavy impact.

Infact it says it's for peicing...http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Thanix

The molten metal, accelerated to a significant fraction of the speed of light, solidifies into a projectile as it is fired, hitting targets with enough force to pierce any known shield or armor.

And it's for peircing then as stated in the codex ...
"would simply punch a hole right through,"
http://masseffect.wi...ss_Accelerators

The thanix cannon fire perice through what it fired on...The heat ot the slug burns it with its heat. Any explotion that happen would be from the heat of wants fired...Not the impact.

It you look at the shp that sovergin blows up...Thr cannon fire perices through ...The heat of the blast blows it up.

You do not understand physics. You do not understand what kinetic weapons is. You do not understand what are you copy-pasting.

Prove me, that liquid(water) of the same mass and speed is more piercing
than a chunk of metal(i'll make it easier, cubic form, iron).
With formulaes, of course.

Modifié par Maxster_, 06 octobre 2012 - 02:51 .

[dreman9999]

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...


Prove me, that liquid(water) of the same mass and speed is more piercing than a chunk of metal(i'll make it easier, cubic form, iron).
With formulaes, of course.

Why? How do we know the mass of what a thanix gun or reaper gun shots any thing the same mass as a regular slug....Added it's shoting molton metal.

Because you said yet another stupid thing. So prove me that liquid is more piercing than a chunk of metal.

Added, I already proven that how the slug is design desides impact.

Even the codex says this...http://masseffect.wi...ss_Accelerators
The slug is designed to squash or shatter on impact, increasing the energy it transfers to the target. If this were not the case, it would simply punch a hole right through, doing minimal damage.


Where in the codex does it say thanix canoons and reaper cannon are designed for heavy impact.

Infact it says it's for peicing...http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Thanix

The molten metal, accelerated to a significant fraction of the speed of light, solidifies into a projectile as it is fired, hitting targets with enough force to pierce any known shield or armor.

And it's for peircing then as stated in the codex ...
"would simply punch a hole right through,"
http://masseffect.wi...ss_Accelerators

The thanix cannon fire perice through what it fired on...The heat ot the slug burns it with its heat. Any explotion that happen would be from the heat of wants fired...Not the impact.

It you look at the shp that sovergin blows up...Thr cannon fire perices through ...The heat of the blast blows it up.

You do not understand physics. You do not understand what kinetic weapons is. You do not understand what are you copy-pasting.

Prove me, that liquid(water) of the same mass and speed is more piercing
than a chunk of metal(i'll make it easier, cubic form, iron).
With formulaes, of course.

But the thing here is that it still a metal being fired. I understand the concept of desity is a factor to impact.

But that does not detor the fact that what is being fired determins impact...That was the point of the bullet fire video.
The design of the slug makes a clear difference to impact. That is a visual fact. A hallow point expands  and armor pericing point goes through.

I like you to find anything in the codex that say a thanix cannon fires the same type of slug as a drednaught or a reaper cammon firing the same slug as a drednaught..It makes a difference. That is my point.

If you say it make no difference of the design or densiity of the object fired, then your saying liquid would be just as good as a solid be fired by a kinetic weapon...

Modifié par dreman9999, 06 octobre 2012 - 03:26 .

[Maxster_]

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...


Prove me, that liquid(water) of the same mass and speed is more piercing than a chunk of metal(i'll make it easier, cubic form, iron).
With formulaes, of course.

Why? How do we know the mass of what a thanix gun or reaper gun shots any thing the same mass as a regular slug....Added it's shoting molton metal.

Because you said yet another stupid thing. So prove me that liquid is more piercing than a chunk of metal.

Added, I already proven that how the slug is design desides impact.

Even the codex says this...http://masseffect.wi...ss_Accelerators
The slug is designed to squash or shatter on impact, increasing the energy it transfers to the target. If this were not the case, it would simply punch a hole right through, doing minimal damage.


Where in the codex does it say thanix canoons and reaper cannon are designed for heavy impact.

Infact it says it's for peicing...http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Thanix

The molten metal, accelerated to a significant fraction of the speed of light, solidifies into a projectile as it is fired, hitting targets with enough force to pierce any known shield or armor.

And it's for peircing then as stated in the codex ...
"would simply punch a hole right through,"
http://masseffect.wi...ss_Accelerators

The thanix cannon fire perice through what it fired on...The heat ot the slug burns it with its heat. Any explotion that happen would be from the heat of wants fired...Not the impact.

It you look at the shp that sovergin blows up...Thr cannon fire perices through ...The heat of the blast blows it up.

You do not understand physics. You do not understand what kinetic weapons is. You do not understand what are you copy-pasting.

Prove me, that liquid(water) of the same mass and speed is more piercing
than a chunk of metal(i'll make it easier, cubic form, iron).
With formulaes, of course.

But the thing here is that it still a metal being fired. I understand the concept of desity is a factor to impact.

But that does not detor the fact that what is being fired determins impact...That was the point of the bullet fire video.
The design of the slug makes a clear difference to impact. That is a visual fact. A hallow point expands  and armor pericing point goes through.

I like you to find anything in the codex that say a thanix cannon fires the same type of slug as a drednaught or a reaper cammon firing the same slug as a drednaught..It makes a difference. That is my point.

If you say it make no difference of the design or densiity of the object fired, then your saying liquid would be just as good as a solid to be used as kinetic weapon...

So you can't prove that liquid is more piercing than metal slug. You disgraced yourself yet again.

http://en.wikipedia....State_of_matter

But that does not detor the fact that what is being fired determins impact...That was the point of the bullet fire video.
The design of the slug makes a clear difference to impact. That is a visual fact.

You do not understand basic physics, and that is university level physics.

Ability a specific projectile to penetrate plate of specific material is based not only density of both, but also on relative speed, and thinkness of said plate and mass of that plate.

Also that video only proves that diffent shaped bullets have different effects. One type of demonstrated bullets are liquid?
It does not proves that liquid of the same mass are more piercing that chunk of metal (you can't prove that anyway, it is nonsence).

Do you even know what "proof" means?

Modifié par Maxster_, 06 octobre 2012 - 03:25 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Maxster_ wrote...

Problems is, that weapons of that scale could easily destroy ecology. Unless you are protecting entire planets by shields,

We're dealing with hypothetical effectively-prepared civilization here, so sure.

they could just randomly or simultaneously bomb uprotected places, completely destroying(not momentarily, but tonns of dust will have effect and in a short time) ecology.

An ecological breakdown is a problem long-term, but short-term a planet can actually do a number of things to temper the effects for the duration of the war. Food supplies and power sources that don't require reliable sunlight, air and liquid filtration, and (once the war is over) evacuation.

In a peer-scenario, which is what we are at, the ability of a planet to whether assault is already understood to be 'sufficient enough to maintain a peer-power.'

Also, that implies, that fleets are a lot more numerous than reapers, as they can protect a lot of worlds from wearing-down defenses. Or this worlds are concentrated around some relays.

Ships, if not fleets, are more numerous than the Reapers, but in a near-peer scenario inferior-quality defenses would aggregate to high-priority areas in order to strike the most favorable equilibrium.

No one can be strong everywhere, so you focus on being strong enough where it matters: your key war-production worlds.

I'm sorry, but ground cannons can not be a viable defense. It is a support maximum.
You need fleets to shoot down reapers, if you do not want a constant bombardment(wearing down. So it is only temporarily and slowing them down.

Even old ground-space canons can break up modern warships, and there's no established limit on the ability to up-gun a ground-canon system. Ground-based defenses are capable of destroying space assets that come within range.

For reapers it would be about not to lose ships. So they need to attack smaller parts of fleets, not destroy planets, so the fleets could became more numerous per planet.

That's how attritional war is lost by high-quality but numerically inferior forces. The smaller groups of the organics wolf-pack into stronger groups, while the production centers continue to produce.

As there is no requirement that the organics defend every planet they have, they don't need to spread their forces thin for non-essential worlds.

Well, then they can blow the suns, but for what?

To destroy the worlds that are the cornerstones of the conventional resistance.

They can not create new reapers, if they annhilate everyone.

One: they aren't annihalting everyone. Just the people on those particular worlds.

Two: They don't need everyone in the galaxy to be processed in order to meet their purposes.

Three: New reapers can be made in the next cycle, when the Cycle is fixed and re-established. New Reapers are not required to be built in the current cycle.

And fleets easily evade that.

The fleets can avoid the supernova, but they can't avoid the loss of the logistics and support infrastructure as the shipyards, future recruits, mechanics, and processing centers for future improvements are lost.

And i doubt that reapers could destroy sun by pressing one button. So there is high probabilty of interception and annihilation by allied fleets.

The context of the Prothean effort already indicates that it is more difficult to stop than a standard conventional victory.

[dreman9999]

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...


Prove me, that liquid(water) of the same mass and speed is more piercing than a chunk of metal(i'll make it easier, cubic form, iron).
With formulaes, of course.

Why? How do we know the mass of what a thanix gun or reaper gun shots any thing the same mass as a regular slug....Added it's shoting molton metal.

Because you said yet another stupid thing. So prove me that liquid is more piercing than a chunk of metal.

Added, I already proven that how the slug is design desides impact.

Even the codex says this...http://masseffect.wi...ss_Accelerators
The slug is designed to squash or shatter on impact, increasing the energy it transfers to the target. If this were not the case, it would simply punch a hole right through, doing minimal damage.


Where in the codex does it say thanix canoons and reaper cannon are designed for heavy impact.

Infact it says it's for peicing...http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Thanix

The molten metal, accelerated to a significant fraction of the speed of light, solidifies into a projectile as it is fired, hitting targets with enough force to pierce any known shield or armor.

And it's for peircing then as stated in the codex ...
"would simply punch a hole right through,"
http://masseffect.wi...ss_Accelerators

The thanix cannon fire perice through what it fired on...The heat ot the slug burns it with its heat. Any explotion that happen would be from the heat of wants fired...Not the impact.

It you look at the shp that sovergin blows up...Thr cannon fire perices through ...The heat of the blast blows it up.

You do not understand physics. You do not understand what kinetic weapons is. You do not understand what are you copy-pasting.

Prove me, that liquid(water) of the same mass and speed is more piercing
than a chunk of metal(i'll make it easier, cubic form, iron).
With formulaes, of course.

But the thing here is that it still a metal being fired. I understand the concept of desity is a factor to impact.

But that does not detor the fact that what is being fired determins impact...That was the point of the bullet fire video.
The design of the slug makes a clear difference to impact. That is a visual fact. A hallow point expands  and armor pericing point goes through.

I like you to find anything in the codex that say a thanix cannon fires the same type of slug as a drednaught or a reaper cammon firing the same slug as a drednaught..It makes a difference. That is my point.

If you say it make no difference of the design or densiity of the object fired, then your saying liquid would be just as good as a solid to be used as kinetic weapon...

So you can't prove that liquid is more piercing than metal slug. You disgraced yourself yet again.

http://en.wikipedia....State_of_matter

But that does not detor the fact that what is being fired determins impact...That was the point of the bullet fire video.
The design of the slug makes a clear difference to impact. That is a visual fact.

You do not understand basic physics, and that is university level physics.

Ability a specific projectile to penetrate plate of specific material is based not only density of both, but also on relative speed, and thinkness of said plate and mass of that plate.

Also that video only proves that diffent shaped bullets have different effects. One type of demonstrated bullets are liquid?
It does not proves that liquid of the same mass are more piercing that chunk of metal (you can't prove that anyway, it is nonsence).

Do you even know what "proof" means?

You missed my point agein.

Density, or state of matter, in a case of what is being fired equals that the less dence an object is the fast it need to go for it to have a hevey impact.

The thanix cannon ME u has has part of what's  fired solify before impact.  The thing you not geting is the design of the slug.

Did you miss this question?

"I like you to find anything in the codex that say a thanix cannon fires the same type of slug as a drednaught or a reaper cammon firing the same slug as a drednaught."

If the design of the slug effect how an object impacts, what in the lore about thanix cannon fire or reaper cannon fire says the slug it fires has the same impact of a drednaught when fired? 
I'm well aware a liquid  would not have the same impact as a solid if they are going at the same speed.

I'm asking"Where in the codex does it say the thanix cannon and  reaper cannon shoots the same type of slug as a drednaught cannon?"

And if it does not shot the same type of slug....Why would the slug for a thanix cannon and a reaper cannon have the same impact  as a drednought if the slug is different from the one shot from drednoughts?

Modifié par dreman9999, 06 octobre 2012 - 04:31 .

[Maxster_]

[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...

[quote]Maxster_ wrote...

Problems is, that weapons of that scale could easily destroy ecology. Unless you are protecting entire planets by shields, [/quote]We're dealing with hypothetical effectively-prepared civilization here, so sure.
[quote]
they could just randomly or simultaneously bomb uprotected places, completely destroying(not momentarily, but tonns of dust will have effect and in a short time) ecology.[/quote]An ecological breakdown is a problem long-term, but short-term a planet can actually do a number of things to temper the effects for the duration of the war. Food supplies and power sources that don't require reliable sunlight, air and liquid filtration, and (once the war is over) evacuation.

In a peer-scenario, which is what we are at, the ability of a planet to whether assault is already understood to be 'sufficient enough to maintain a peer-power.'
[/quote]
I agree.
[quote]
[quote]
Also, that implies, that fleets are a lot more numerous than reapers, as they can protect a lot of worlds from wearing-down defenses. Or this worlds are concentrated around some relays.[/quote]Ships, if not fleets, are more numerous than the Reapers, but in a near-peer scenario inferior-quality defenses would aggregate to high-priority areas in order to strike the most favorable equilibrium.

No one can be strong everywhere, so you focus on being strong enough where it matters: your key war-production worlds.
[/quote]
I agree.
[quote]
[quote]
I'm sorry, but ground cannons can not be a viable defense. It is a support maximum.
You need fleets to shoot down reapers, if you do not want a constant bombardment(wearing down. So it is only temporarily and slowing them down.[/quote]Even old ground-space canons can break up modern warships, and there's no established limit on the ability to up-gun a ground-canon system. Ground-based defenses are capable of destroying space assets that come within range.
[/quote]
There you are wrong.
There can be no comparison between sea ships and space ships. First, space is 3d. Second, orbital speeds are too high and orbital height could differ.
You can easily bombard from 40000 km height, and hit exactly where you want. Because cities and guns are not going anywhere, they are moving and turning with planet, and thus - easily predictable. But ship can easily change course, height, speed. and at that range, slightest change of orbital speed after a gun shot will guarantee a miss.
[quote][quote]
For reapers it would be about not to lose ships. So they need to attack smaller parts of fleets, not destroy planets, so the fleets could became more numerous per planet.[/quote]That's how attritional war is lost by high-quality but numerically inferior forces. The smaller groups of the organics wolf-pack into stronger groups, while the production centers continue to produce.

As there is no requirement that the organics defend every planet they have, they don't need to spread their forces thin for non-essential worlds.
[/quote]
If they have enough ships, to fast react with massive force to an any significant planet's attack - then reapers lost.
[quote][quote]
Well, then they can blow the suns, but for what?[/quote]To destroy the worlds that are the cornerstones of the conventional resistance.
[/quote]
That depends on length of war. It could end with only planets they can harvest is the ones that heavily defended and unbeatable.
[quote][quote]They can not create new reapers, if they annhilate everyone.
[/quote]One: they aren't annihalting everyone. Just the people on those particular worlds.

Two: They don't need everyone in the galaxy to be processed in order to meet their purposes.

Three: New reapers can be made in the next cycle, when the Cycle is fixed and re-established. New Reapers are not required to be built in the current cycle.
[/quote]
I agree.
[quote][quote]
And fleets easily evade that.[/quote]The fleets can avoid the supernova, but they can't avoid the loss of the logistics and support infrastructure as the shipyards, future recruits, mechanics, and processing centers for future improvements are lost.
[/quote]
Well, that depends on length of war.
[quote][quote]
And i doubt that reapers could destroy sun by pressing one button. So there is high probabilty of interception and annihilation by allied fleets.
[/quote]The context of the Prothean effort already indicates that it is more difficult to stop than a standard conventional victory.
[/quote]
I meant that if start of the process to destroy the sun is slow - than those reapers can be intercepted and annihilated. If it instant, they are overpowered and need nerfing

[Dean_the_Young]

Maxster_ wrote...

There you are wrong.
There can be no comparison between sea ships and space ships. First, space is 3d.
Second, orbital speeds are too high and orbital height could differ.

You could make the same argument about aircraft. Anti-Aircraft Artillery still exists.

So, mind you, do planetary defense canons in the game. Rannoch has one, albeit off screen, and we can see Tuchanka successfully do one to a vessel in range.

While anti-air (and anti-space) guns suffer range restrictions, that doesn't make them useless. Besides that anything in range is vulnerable, the increased delay by vessels seeking safer ranges can be used for other countermeasures.

That depends on length of war. It could end with only planets they can harvest is the ones that heavily defended and unbeatable.

If the planet is unbeatable, then it is also unharvestable. The primary preference for not destroying it is then removed.

I meant that if start of the process to destroy the sun is slow - than those reapers can be intercepted and annihilated. If it instant, they are overpowered and need nerfing

Then that wouldn't be a near-peer competitor.

[Maxster_]

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...


Prove me, that liquid(water) of the same mass and speed is more piercing than a chunk of metal(i'll make it easier, cubic form, iron).
With formulaes, of course.

Why? How do we know the mass of what a thanix gun or reaper gun shots any thing the same mass as a regular slug....Added it's shoting molton metal.

Because you said yet another stupid thing. So prove me that liquid is more piercing than a chunk of metal.

Added, I already proven that how the slug is design desides impact.

Even the codex says this...http://masseffect.wi...ss_Accelerators
The slug is designed to squash or shatter on impact, increasing the energy it transfers to the target. If this were not the case, it would simply punch a hole right through, doing minimal damage.


Where in the codex does it say thanix canoons and reaper cannon are designed for heavy impact.

Infact it says it's for peicing...http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Thanix

The molten metal, accelerated to a significant fraction of the speed of light, solidifies into a projectile as it is fired, hitting targets with enough force to pierce any known shield or armor.

And it's for peircing then as stated in the codex ...
"would simply punch a hole right through,"
http://masseffect.wi...ss_Accelerators

The thanix cannon fire perice through what it fired on...The heat ot the slug burns it with its heat. Any explotion that happen would be from the heat of wants fired...Not the impact.

It you look at the shp that sovergin blows up...Thr cannon fire perices through ...The heat of the blast blows it up.

You do not understand physics. You do not understand what kinetic weapons is. You do not understand what are you copy-pasting.

Prove me, that liquid(water) of the same mass and speed is more piercing
than a chunk of metal(i'll make it easier, cubic form, iron).
With formulaes, of course.

But the thing here is that it still a metal being fired. I understand the concept of desity is a factor to impact.

But that does not detor the fact that what is being fired determins impact...That was the point of the bullet fire video.
The design of the slug makes a clear difference to impact. That is a visual fact. A hallow point expands  and armor pericing point goes through.

I like you to find anything in the codex that say a thanix cannon fires the same type of slug as a drednaught or a reaper cammon firing the same slug as a drednaught..It makes a difference. That is my point.

If you say it make no difference of the design or densiity of the object fired, then your saying liquid would be just as good as a solid to be used as kinetic weapon...

So you can't prove that liquid is more piercing than metal slug. You disgraced yourself yet again.

http://en.wikipedia....State_of_matter

But that does not detor the fact that what is being fired determins impact...That was the point of the bullet fire video.
The design of the slug makes a clear difference to impact. That is a visual fact.

You do not understand basic physics, and that is university level physics.

Ability a specific projectile to penetrate plate of specific material is based not only density of both, but also on relative speed, and thinkness of said plate and mass of that plate.

Also that video only proves that diffent shaped bullets have different effects. One type of demonstrated bullets are liquid?
It does not proves that liquid of the same mass are more piercing that chunk of metal (you can't prove that anyway, it is nonsence).

Do you even know what "proof" means?

You missed my point agein.

Density, or state of matter, in a case of what is being fired equals that the less dence an object is the fast it need to go for it to have a hevey impact.

The thanix cannon ME u has has part of what's  fired solify before impact.  The thing you not geting is the design of the slug.

Did you miss this question?

"I like you to find anything in the codex that say a thanix cannon fires the same type of slug as a drednaught or a reaper cammon firing the same slug as a drednaught."

If the design of the slug effect how an object impacts, what in the lore about thanix cammon fire or reaper cannon fire says the slug it fires has the same impact of adrednought when fired? 
I'm well aware a liquid  would not have the same impact as a solid if they are going at the same speed.

I'm asking"Where in the codex does it say the thanix cannon and  reaper cannon shoots the same type of slug as a drednought cannon?"

And if it does not shot the same type of slug....Why would the slug for a thanix cannon and a reaper cannon have the same impact  as a drednought if the slug is different from the one shot from drednoughts?

You do not understand the physics at all.

Thanix cannon and dreadnought cannon have same kinetic energy, and impulse - when they have same speed and same mass projectiles.
P=m*V,  where P - impulse, m - mass of object, V - velocity
Ek=(1/2)*m*V^2 - where Ek - kinetic energy, m - mass of object, V - velocity.

Not impulse nor kinetic energy are affected by form of a projectile.


http://en.wikipedia....astic_collision

An inelastic collision, in contrast to an elastic collision, is a collision in which kinetic energy is not conserved.

In collisions of MACROSCOPIC bodies, SOME KINETIC ENERGY is turned into VIBRATIONAL ENERGY OF THE ATOMS, causing a HEATING effect, and the bodies are DEFORMED.

The molecules of a gas or liquid rarely experience perfectly elastic collisions because kinetic energy is exchanged between the molecules' translational motion and their internal degrees of freedom with each collision. At any one instant, half the collisions are – to a varying extent – inelastic (the pair possesses less kinetic energy after the collision than before), and half could be described as “super-elastic” (possessing more kinetic energy after the collision than before). Averaged across an entire sample, molecular collisions are elastic.

Inelastic collisions may not conserve kinetic energy, but they do obey conservation of momentum.[1] Simple ballistic pendulum problems obey the conservation of kinetic energy only when the block swings to its largest angle.

In nuclear physics, an inelastic collision is one in which the incoming particle causes the nucleus it strikes to become excited or to break up. Deep inelastic scattering is a method of probing the structure of subatomic particles in much the same way as Rutherford probed the inside of the atom (see Rutherford scattering). Such experiments were performed on protons in the late 1960s using high-energy electrons at the Stanford Linear Accelerator (SLAC). As in Rutherford scattering, deep inelastic scattering of electrons by proton targets revealed that most of the incident electrons interact very little and pass straight through, with only a small number bouncing back. This indicates that the charge in the proton is concentrated in small lumps, reminiscent of Rutherford's discovery that the positive charge in an atom is concentrated at the nucleus. However, in the case of the proton, the evidence suggested three distinct concentrations of charge (quarks) and not one.

[dreman9999]

[quote]Maxster_ wrote...

[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...

[quote]Maxster_ wrote...

Problems is, that weapons of that scale could easily destroy ecology. Unless you are protecting entire planets by shields, [/quote]We're dealing with hypothetical effectively-prepared civilization here, so sure.
[quote]
they could just randomly or simultaneously bomb uprotected places, completely destroying(not momentarily, but tonns of dust will have effect and in a short time) ecology.[/quote]An ecological breakdown is a problem long-term, but short-term a planet can actually do a number of things to temper the effects for the duration of the war. Food supplies and power sources that don't require reliable sunlight, air and liquid filtration, and (once the war is over) evacuation.

In a peer-scenario, which is what we are at, the ability of a planet to whether assault is already understood to be 'sufficient enough to maintain a peer-power.'
[/quote]
I agree.
[quote]
[quote]
Also, that implies, that fleets are a lot more numerous than reapers, as they can protect a lot of worlds from wearing-down defenses. Or this worlds are concentrated around some relays.[/quote]Ships, if not fleets, are more numerous than the Reapers, but in a near-peer scenario inferior-quality defenses would aggregate to high-priority areas in order to strike the most favorable equilibrium.

No one can be strong everywhere, so you focus on being strong enough where it matters: your key war-production worlds.
[/quote]
I agree.
[quote]
[quote]
I'm sorry, but ground cannons can not be a viable defense. It is a support maximum.
You need fleets to shoot down reapers, if you do not want a constant bombardment(wearing down. So it is only temporarily and slowing them down.[/quote]Even old ground-space canons can break up modern warships, and there's no established limit on the ability to up-gun a ground-canon system. Ground-based defenses are capable of destroying space assets that come within range.
[/quote]
There you are wrong.
There can be no comparison between sea ships and space ships. First, space is 3d. Second, orbital speeds are too high and orbital height could differ.
You can easily bombard from 40000 km height, and hit exactly where you want. Because cities and guns are not going anywhere, they are moving and turning with planet, and thus - easily predictable. But ship can easily change course, height, speed. and at that range, slightest change of orbital speed after a gun shot will guarantee a miss.
[quote][quote]
For reapers it would be about not to lose ships. So they need to attack smaller parts of fleets, not destroy planets, so the fleets could became more numerous per planet.[/quote]That's how attritional war is lost by high-quality but numerically inferior forces. The smaller groups of the organics wolf-pack into stronger groups, while the production centers continue to produce.

As there is no requirement that the organics defend every planet they have, they don't need to spread their forces thin for non-essential worlds.
[/quote]
If they have enough ships, to fast react with massive force to an any significant planet's attack - then reapers lost.
[quote][quote]
Well, then they can blow the suns, but for what?[/quote]To destroy the worlds that are the cornerstones of the conventional resistance.
[/quote]
That depends on length of war. It could end with only planets they can harvest is the ones that heavily defended and unbeatable.
[quote][quote]They can not create new reapers, if they annhilate everyone.
[/quote]One: they aren't annihalting everyone. Just the people on those particular worlds.

Two: They don't need everyone in the galaxy to be processed in order to meet their purposes.

Three: New reapers can be made in the next cycle, when the Cycle is fixed and re-established. New Reapers are not required to be built in the current cycle.
[/quote]
I agree.
[quote][quote]
And fleets easily evade that.[/quote]The fleets can avoid the supernova, but they can't avoid the loss of the logistics and support infrastructure as the shipyards, future recruits, mechanics, and processing centers for future improvements are lost.
[/quote]
Well, that depends on length of war.
[quote][quote]
And i doubt that reapers could destroy sun by pressing one button. So there is high probabilty of interception and annihilation by allied fleets.
[/quote]The context of the Prothean effort already indicates that it is more difficult to stop than a standard conventional victory.
[/quote]
I meant that if start of the process to destroy the sun is slow - than those reapers can be intercepted and annihilated. If it instant, they are overpowered and need nerfing

[/quote]The long the war is the worst it gets. The defending force of the reapers may be able to have great defnces for planets but that comes at a cost of resources. A planet has a limit to that. The reapers would simply wait them out till they run out of resorces. Then the defending race will starve.

But that's not couting the force the reaper can use. The can still disrupt the planet from a distance.

Modifié par dreman9999, 06 octobre 2012 - 04:37 .

[Maxster_]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

There you are wrong.
There can be no comparison between sea ships and space ships. First, space is 3d.
Second, orbital speeds are too high and orbital height could differ.

You could make the same argument about aircraft. Anti-Aircraft Artillery still exists.

So, mind you, do planetary defense canons in the game. Rannoch has one, albeit off screen, and we can see Tuchanka successfully do one to a vessel in range.

While anti-air (and anti-space) guns suffer range restrictions, that doesn't make them useless. Besides that anything in range is vulnerable, the increased delay by vessels seeking safer ranges can be used for other countermeasures.

Air is 0-20 km and anti-air guns are 0-5(7) km range.
Dreadnough can fire from 40000 km and hit unmoving target, and it have whole 10 seconds to slightly change vector or speed.
That is a lot of time.

Planetary defenses are effective only on descend. Otherwise, they'll just slightly slow down bombardment process.

[Dean_the_Young]

Maxster_ wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

There you are wrong.
There can be no comparison between sea ships and space ships. First, space is 3d.
Second, orbital speeds are too high and orbital height could differ.

You could make the same argument about aircraft. Anti-Aircraft Artillery still exists.

So, mind you, do planetary defense canons in the game. Rannoch has one, albeit off screen, and we can see Tuchanka successfully do one to a vessel in range.

While anti-air (and anti-space) guns suffer range restrictions, that doesn't make them useless. Besides that anything in range is vulnerable, the increased delay by vessels seeking safer ranges can be used for other countermeasures.

Air is 0-20 km and anti-air guns are 0-5(7) km range.
Dreadnough can fire from 40000 km and hit unmoving target, and it have whole 10 seconds to slightly change vector or speed.
That is a lot of time.

It would only have 10 s if it fired slugs at 10,000 km/s. If a ground-based canon could match at a 10th of lightspeed, as the canonical rounds do, the return slug would come back at a rate of almost 29,980 m/s. That's far less time... and large space ships in the ME universe aren't that fast. They aren't like fighters or the Normandy that can turn on a dime.

Of course, the point of this isn't the actual time it takes: it will take a modern gun a lot longer to go much shorter distances than ME guns, ME ship paths are pretty predictable for large ships in the ME universe, and quantum-entanglement can reduce light-speed lag in visual targetting. A weapon's effective range will always be a function of the relative mobility of the vessel, regardless of the range of either.

But, in any scenario in which the target planet has defensive infrastructure, those orbital bombardments will be marginally effective at best. Unmoving or not, a city-scale kinetic barrier can take those rounds and carry on. Hardened structures can also endure: forcing just a ten second dealy between the detection of firing and impact is still ten seconds for emergency shutters and what have you to be activated and defenses improved.

At longer ranges, the delay until the long-distance bombardment salvo can offer other countermeasures. A shot from the edge of a star system could be measured in minutes or even hours: 'dummy interceptors' such as worthless vehicles or small asteroids could be maneuvered to simply take such shots as a sacrifice. Depending on the technologies, kinetic interceptors could effectively shoot bullets with bullets, prematurly detonating or robbing shots of the kinetic energy.

Planetary defenses are effective only on descend. Otherwise, they'll just slightly slow down bombardment process.

That is an unsupported claim.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 06 octobre 2012 - 04:54 .

[dreman9999]

@Maxster_

Your not getting it...It not about simple kinetic energy with ammunitions. It's about effectivity.

A slug is not effect based on impact alone, it's effect based on what happen after impact. If a slug goes too fast and it passes through the object it's trying to destroy and does little damage.
Which is why armor peircing bullets are not the best type of bullets to use on people...It passes through them.

A slug for it to be effective must be dence enough to be shot into the target but slows down once it hits or gets inside the target.
That's why hallow points are effective ageints people.

The same concept goes for ships....If the slug you fire on a ship is shots too fast, it shot through the ship...You want a slug that can peirce throught the hull and blow up inside.

A drednaught slug is made to hit ships without the slug shooting out through the ship and doing little damage. It hits the ship, brakes up on impact, slows down inside and blows the ship up.

That is not the case of a thanix gun or reaper gun. It design to pierce through,  not give heavy impacts. It design to shot a beam extremely hot moltlen metal at a much fast rate then a drednaught shoots it slug though ships and use the heat of the beam of molton metal to destory the ship.

It's like a laser being shot through a person and the heat of the beam burns the person to death. That  why it looks like beam when fired.


This is an issue of effectivity of ammounitions

Modifié par dreman9999, 06 octobre 2012 - 05:18 .

[Maxster_]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

There you are wrong.
There can be no comparison between sea ships and space ships. First, space is 3d.
Second, orbital speeds are too high and orbital height could differ.

You could make the same argument about aircraft. Anti-Aircraft Artillery still exists.

So, mind you, do planetary defense canons in the game. Rannoch has one, albeit off screen, and we can see Tuchanka successfully do one to a vessel in range.

While anti-air (and anti-space) guns suffer range restrictions, that doesn't make them useless. Besides that anything in range is vulnerable, the increased delay by vessels seeking safer ranges can be used for other countermeasures.

Air is 0-20 km and anti-air guns are 0-5(7) km range.
Dreadnough can fire from 40000 km and hit unmoving target, and it have whole 10 seconds to slightly change vector or speed.
That is a lot of time.

It would only have 10 s if it fired slugs at 10,000 km/s. If a ground-based canon could match at a 10th of lightspeed, as the canonical rounds do, the return slug would come back at a rate of almost 29,980 m/s. That's far less time... and large space ships in the ME universe aren't that fast. They aren't like fighters or the Normandy that can turn on a dime.

Dafuq?
40000km/4000km/s= 10s
From where you got 10000? or 1/10th lightspeed(29000km/s)? Or you meant 29 km/s?

I got 4000 from video and codex
A dreadnought's power lies in the length of its main gun. Dreadnoughts range from 800 meters to one kilometer long, with a main gun of commensurate length. An 800-meter mass accelerator is capable of accelerating one 20 kg. slug to a velocity of 4025 km/s every two seconds. Each slug has the kinetic energy of 38 kilotons1 of TNT, three times the energy released by the fission weapon that destroyed Hiroshima.

And i'm being generous, that thing on Tuchanka nowhere near the kilometer length. Actually, it would be like 400 km/s, for 20 km slug. Or 4000 for a 2 kg slug, which is useless against dreadnounght. Well, useful, but in numbers.
Also, it still won't hit with a slight correction of course and|or speed by a dreadnought.

Do i need to cite codex more, or you just agree on numbers from codex?

Of course, the point of this isn't the actual time it takes: it will take a modern gun a lot longer to go much shorter distances than ME guns, ME ship paths are pretty predictable for large ships in the ME universe, and quantum-entanglement can reduce light-speed lag in visual targetting. A weapon's effective range will always be a function of the relative mobility of the vessel, regardless of the range of either.

You do realise that orbital speeds a very high, do you? For a geostationary orbit? You know the planets are turning around axis.

But, in any scenario in which the target planet has defensive infrastructure, those orbital bombardments will be marginally effective at best. Unmoving or not, a city-scale kinetic barrier can take those rounds and carry on. Hardened structures can also endure: forcing just a ten second dealy between the detection of firing and impact is still ten seconds for emergency shutters and what have you to be activated and defenses improved.

I agree.

At longer ranges, the delay until the long-distance bombardment salvo can offer other countermeasures. A shot from the edge of a star system could be measured in minutes or even hours: 'dummy interceptors' such as worthless vehicles or small asteroids could be maneuvered to simply take such shots as a sacrifice. Depending on the technologies, kinetic interceptors could effectively shoot bullets with bullets, prematurly detonating or robbing shots of the kinetic energy.

It is unrealistic for ME technology. 4000 km/s is not some lousy 7-8 km/s.

Planetary defenses are effective only on descend. Otherwise, they'll just slightly slow down bombardment process.

That is an unsupported claim.

Supported. Check codex about projectile speed.

Modifié par Maxster_, 06 octobre 2012 - 05:44 .

[Maxster_]

dreman9999 wrote...

@Maxster_

Your not getting it...It not about simple kinetic energy with ammunitions. It's about effectivity.

A slug is not effect based on impact alone, it's effect based on what happen after impact. If a slug goes too fast and it passes through the object it's trying to destroy and does little damage.
Which is why armor peircing bullets are not the best type of bullets to use on people...It passes through them.

A slug for it to be effective must be dence enough to be shot into the target but slows down once it hits or gets inside the target.
That's why hallow points are effective ageints people.

The same concept goes for ships....If the slug you fire on a ship is shots too fast, it shot through the ship...You want a slug that can peirce throught the hull and blow up inside.

A drednaught slug is made to hit ships without the slug shooting out through the ship and doing little damage. It hits the ship, brakes up on impact, slows down inside and blows the ship up.

That is not the case of a thanix gun or reaper gun. It design to pierce through,  not give heavy impacts. It design to shot a beam extremely hot moltlen metal at a much fast rate then a drednaught shoots it slug though ships and use the heat of the beam of molton metal to destory the ship.

It's like a laser being shot through a person and the heat of the beam burns the person to death. That  why it looks like beam when fired.


This is an issue of effectivity of ammounitions

Before you claim something like that

That is not the case of a thanix gun or reaper gun. It design to
pierce through,  not give heavy impacts. It design to shot a beam
extremely hot moltlen metal at a much fast rate then a drednaught shoots
it slug though ships and use the heat of the beam of molton metal to
destory the ship.

Prove that liquid are more piercing than a chunk of metal of the same mass and speed.

Also that claim is complete rubbish. You do not understand physics.
You don't know what "heat" is. You don't know what "kinetic energy" is.

[dreman9999]

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

@Maxster_

Your not getting it...It not about simple kinetic energy with ammunitions. It's about effectivity.

A slug is not effect based on impact alone, it's effect based on what happen after impact. If a slug goes too fast and it passes through the object it's trying to destroy and does little damage.
Which is why armor peircing bullets are not the best type of bullets to use on people...It passes through them.

A slug for it to be effective must be dence enough to be shot into the target but slows down once it hits or gets inside the target.
That's why hallow points are effective ageints people.

The same concept goes for ships....If the slug you fire on a ship is shots too fast, it shot through the ship...You want a slug that can peirce throught the hull and blow up inside.

A drednaught slug is made to hit ships without the slug shooting out through the ship and doing little damage. It hits the ship, brakes up on impact, slows down inside and blows the ship up.

That is not the case of a thanix gun or reaper gun. It design to pierce through,  not give heavy impacts. It design to shot a beam extremely hot moltlen metal at a much fast rate then a drednaught shoots it slug though ships and use the heat of the beam of molton metal to destory the ship.

It's like a laser being shot through a person and the heat of the beam burns the person to death. That  why it looks like beam when fired.


This is an issue of effectivity of ammounitions

Before you claim something like that

That is not the case of a thanix gun or reaper gun. It design to
pierce through,  not give heavy impacts. It design to shot a beam
extremely hot moltlen metal at a much fast rate then a drednaught shoots
it slug though ships and use the heat of the beam of molton metal to
destory the ship.

Prove that liquid are more piercing than a chunk of metal of the same mass and speed.

Also that claim is complete rubbish. You do not understand physics.
You don't know what "heat" is. You don't know what "kinetic energy" is.

Oh dear god...It's not about what pierces better.

Even if one peirce better, it matter not if the slug passed through the ship. You can take a drednaught slug and shoot it super fast, but if it's so fast it passes throught the ship, it not an effective weapon. A slug must slow down enough after impact to do major damage.


It's not rubbish..This is how ammunitions work. Ask any gunman and they would tell you the same thing.

The thanix cannon is not a weapon about impact power ..That's why it can be put on any ship of any size. It's about the power it has to piercing and what the slug does after it pierces into the target.

Solid object  will alway pierce better then liquid, but the issue of using a solid as ammunition is that it may go too fast and passs through what it's being shot at with out doing much danage.

Thanix weapon ignores impact  for pierce power. There is no care if the shoots passed through the object it's fired on. Because it's shot as a heated beam of molten metal, the beam pierces throught the object and it's destroyed by wthe beams heat.

This is a tactic to go ageinst kinetic sheild being that they are designed to take heavy impacts on ships. It made so that the super fast shots of the cannon aftereffects of passing through the object that is being fired on is not a counter but an assist...For it to be able to burn the ship with a super hot beam.

Modifié par dreman9999, 06 octobre 2012 - 06:23 .

[Menagra]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

I actively hoped that wasn't going to be the case. That's a story that belongs in Care Bears; not Mass Effect.

To each their own opinion, but I was thrilled when this turned out to not be the case.

You obviously know little about care bears. The current ending resembles a care bear ending much more so with all the space magic. Even a colorful explosion that you can change the colors of depending on your decisions. That is classic care bear.

[P_sutherland]

[dreman9999]

P_sutherland wrote...

The arguement is about the fire of the thanix cannons and reaper cannons.

[The Spamming Troll]

WTF guys.

seriously your trying WAY TO HARD right now.

you cant beat the reapers cuz their shields are flippin awesome.

ME3 sucks.

get over it.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 06 octobre 2012 - 06:28 .

[The Spamming Troll]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

WTF guys.

seriously your trying WAY TO HARD right now.

you cant beat the reapers cuz their shields are flippin awesome.

ME3 sucks.

get over it.

you shut your mouth, idiot.

[Urdnot Amenark]

dreman9999 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

@Maxster_

Your not getting it...It not about simple kinetic energy with ammunitions. It's about effectivity.

A slug is not effect based on impact alone, it's effect based on what happen after impact. If a slug goes too fast and it passes through the object it's trying to destroy and does little damage.
Which is why armor peircing bullets are not the best type of bullets to use on people...It passes through them.

A slug for it to be effective must be dence enough to be shot into the target but slows down once it hits or gets inside the target.
That's why hallow points are effective ageints people.

The same concept goes for ships....If the slug you fire on a ship is shots too fast, it shot through the ship...You want a slug that can peirce throught the hull and blow up inside.

A drednaught slug is made to hit ships without the slug shooting out through the ship and doing little damage. It hits the ship, brakes up on impact, slows down inside and blows the ship up.

That is not the case of a thanix gun or reaper gun. It design to pierce through,  not give heavy impacts. It design to shot a beam extremely hot moltlen metal at a much fast rate then a drednaught shoots it slug though ships and use the heat of the beam of molton metal to destory the ship.

It's like a laser being shot through a person and the heat of the beam burns the person to death. That  why it looks like beam when fired.


This is an issue of effectivity of ammounitions

Before you claim something like that

That is not the case of a thanix gun or reaper gun. It design to
pierce through,  not give heavy impacts. It design to shot a beam
extremely hot moltlen metal at a much fast rate then a drednaught shoots
it slug though ships and use the heat of the beam of molton metal to
destory the ship.

Prove that liquid are more piercing than a chunk of metal of the same mass and speed.

Also that claim is complete rubbish. You do not understand physics.
You don't know what "heat" is. You don't know what "kinetic energy" is.

Oh dear god...It's not about what pierces better.

Even if one peirce better, it matter not if the slug passed through the ship. You can take a drednaught slug and shoot it super fast, but if it's so fast it passes throught the ship, it not an effective weapon. A slug must slow down enough after impact to do major damage.


It's not rubbish..This is how ammunitions work. Ask any gunman and they would tell you the same thing.

The thanix cannon is not a weapon about impact power ..That's why it can be put on any ship of any size. It's about the power it has to piercing and what the slug does after it pierces into the target.

Solid object  will alway pierce better then liquid, but the issue of using a solid as ammunition is that it may go too fast and passs through what it's being shot at with out doing much danage.

Thanix weapon ignores impact  for pierce power. There is no care if the shoots passed through the object it's fired on. Because it's shot as a heated beam of molten metal, the beam pierces throught the object and it's destroyed by wthe beams heat.

This is a tactic to go ageinst kinetic sheild being that they are designed to take heavy impacts on ships. It made so that the super fast shots of the cannon aftereffects of passing through the object that is being fired on is not a counter but an assist...For it to be able to burn the ship with a super hot beam.

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but does not the codex entry clearly state that the beam emitted by a thanix cannon solidifies when it's fired, thereby rendering this whole argument moot? 

Modifié par Urdnot Amenark, 06 octobre 2012 - 06:36 .