451 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

PhoenixUK wrote...

After ME2, yes i thought there would be conventional victory of some sort, tied into the ME2 dark energy plotline (esp when Liara in LOTSB mentions that the SHadow broker thought there might be more PRothean stuff that could help us).

Once ME3 started off on Earth and we saw the sheer scale of the invasion, I thought maybe not. To be fair though, the Crucible works so well this time because you bring together different species (the rachni for example).


not cooperation. THe protheans were imperialists who conquered other races. Javik shows a lot of surprise that different species work together under the Citadel, and comments that our diversity in this cycle gives us strength which his cycle lacked as it was lost in the drive to force everyone into conformity under Prothean rule.

1.This screams "can be beat conventionally"?


2. Not one racein ME preped for them...Not one....Out side of the geth.
On top of that they vastly out number us.If you think you can beat the convetionally After ME1 and 2...Your dreaming.

[Maxster_]

Well, before release of ME3, i've not read the forums, not watched videos. I expected some good surprise, like past bioware brilliance at writing coherent plot, with believeable characters.
Well, i got my surprise... well.. surprise, yes.

Modifié par Maxster_, 03 octobre 2012 - 11:25 .

[dreman9999]

UniqueName001 wrote...

Short answer to OP: Yes, I did expect something like that

Longer answer:

I expected a combination of early warning, special knowledge (the beacon/cipher), previous cycle's efforts (the Protheans having disabled the keepers), and yes, cooperation/coordination to be the key to winning the game. Part of the Reaper MO was to divide and conquer; preventing this would be a new advantage to fighting them.

Basically, I imagined that each cycle had gotten closer and closer to defeating the Reapers, and that this cycle would be the one to finally accomplish it.

What I did not expect:
The idea that the Reapers are "good guys", "protecting" organics
That the ending would be based so heavily on the concept of the singularity
The idea that there was a single entity in control of the Reapers
The "choose A, B, or C" ending
Synthesis. So much wrong with this idea.

1, The entire series is based around advancement.
2. The catalysts goal is to control all life and impose sungularity , not stopit.
3. The reapers are not "good guys", "protecting" organics...They are machines with no concept of moral doingwhat they are programed to do.

4, To be fair, we know near nothing about how the reapers work before the ending.

5.A ending changes based on ems....C ending changes based on ems.

6. Don't like synthesis....Don't pick it.

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

It never occurred to me that Bioware wouldn't provide a paragon, your LI and most of your crew survive via conventional victory option. I mean, I fully expected an everyone dies option like ME2, but I didn't think that would be the only option

Why would they ? It was never promised.

They said there was a best ending.

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

It never occurred to me that Bioware wouldn't provide a paragon, your LI and most of your crew survive via conventional victory option. I mean, I fully expected an everyone dies option like ME2, but I didn't think that would be the only option

Why would they ? It was never promised.

They said there was a best ending.

That does not mean a paragon, your LI and most of your crew survive via conventional victory option.
That just mean the ending has a best ending,not rainbows and loolypops ending. Best ending can mans anything.

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

It never occurred to me that Bioware wouldn't provide a paragon, your LI and most of your crew survive via conventional victory option. I mean, I fully expected an everyone dies option like ME2, but I didn't think that would be the only option

Why would they ? It was never promised.

They said there was a best ending.

That does not mean a paragon, your LI and most of your crew survive via conventional victory option.
That just mean the ending has a best ending,not rainbows and loolypops ending. Best ending can mans anything.

Anything including something similar to ME2

[UniqueName001]

dreman9999 wrote...

1, The entire series is based around advancement.
2. The catalysts goal is to control all life and impose sungularity , not stopit.
3. The reapers are not "good guys", "protecting" organics...They are machines with no concept of moral doingwhat they are programed to do.

4, To be fair, we know near nothing about how the reapers work before the ending.

5.A ending changes based on ems....C ending changes based on ems.

6. Don't like synthesis....Don't pick it.

1. Not sure what you mean, but advancement =/= "synthetic life will destroy organic life"

2. Here I am using "singularity" as the idea that once artificial life is created, we will lost control of it and it will attempt to wipe us out.  I believe you are meaning "synthesis" here instead of "singularity".  Of course, I don't agree that the catalyst is attempting to impose synthesis or the singularity; he clearly states that his purpose is to prevent synthetic life from wiping out organic life, which he does by eliminating advanced species before they can create a sufficiently advanced synthetic race (IE, triggering the singularity)

3. Yes, well, the "just doing what they are programmed to do" is an argument I don't subscribe to, because it drastically cheapens them as an antagonist.  If you insist that the Reapers have no control of their actions, then whoever created them did so with a supposedly "noble" goal.  It is a stupid and completely unnecessary plot twist.

4. Sovereign: "We are each a nation - independent, free of all weakness."  No leader.  No controller.

5. Arguing that there are more than three endings is grasping at straws.  There are three endings.  Minor details change based on EMS.  But when you are sitting in the Catalyst's chamber, you get to pick one of two or three endings.

6. Oh, I don't.  But note that the exact same argument could be applied to a conventional victory, if it was available.

Modifié par UniqueName001, 03 octobre 2012 - 11:48 .

[frostajulie]

nopantsisabela wrote...

I just got on BSN for the first time in months and happened to see some thread debating if conventional victory should have been possible or not. This reminded me of one reason that I was so confused by the ME3 ending: was anyone else expecting the whole theme of cooperation to be the ultimate reason why "this time" the Reapers could be beaten? 

In my opinion, the "if we work together, we can do anything!" theme was a pretty heavy one all throughout ME1 and 2 and then during the Thessia mission in ME3 the VI pretty much tells you that this cycle's sentient races are much more unified and therin might lie your salvation.

I totally expected this to be the reason for your victory over the Reapers, and it seemed really fitting. In order for conventional victory to be possible, this cycle would have to have something that other cycles didn't, and ultimately, the reason for this cycle being so unified is Shepard (who's been the main instigator of all the cooperative activity between the different races).

Just curious if anyone else had felt similarly about this.

Duh

Yes this is why the endings we have fail so abominably

[CommanderVyse]

I thought this right until the credits. Then my brain attempted to process the last 5 minutes and failed.

[Shinobu]

Icinix wrote...

I was exepecting a lot of main characters to die through the story, I was expecting some planets / races to be lost, I was expecting ME3 to be spread over a reasonably long time line....I was expecting to have to sacrifice a lot to take out the Reapers and a severely damaged galaxy could then rebuild from the ashes.

We got heroes, we united races, we held the Reapers at bay, we had two old men die for greater causes, and the codex and game was filled with little stories of the Reapers actually losing quantities of units and ships.....then we got a rather easy victory button that did stuff that didn't make sense.

I do think there is more to come though.

I can only hope you're right.

To the OP: Yes, I did expect to be able to defeat the Reapers through cooperation as Shepard did in the first two games.

[XxBrokenBonezxX]

I did OP. You hit it, the themes of building your forces to ultimately defeat the reapers was so heavy in the first two games it amazes me that people "like" the idea of the crucible.

[Daxamite]

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...



[/quote]1.This screams "can be beat conventionally"?


2. Not one racein ME preped for them...Not one....Out side of the geth.
On top of that they vastly out number us.If you think you can beat the convetionally After ME1 and 2...Your dreaming.
[/quote]

well ME1 looks pretty hopeless when Udina and the council shuts you out - you break out on your own and get to the conduit and save the day. ME2 is called a suicide mission - but its possible to beat the collectors and save your entire squad. it wasn't beyond reason by end of ME2 that you could defeat the reapers by force. yes the image shows there are a lot of reapers in ME2 final scene, but not clearly that they are so far beyond us.

As for preparation - again it wasn't inconceivable that some of the races would wake up and prepare. Cerberus, if no one else. You can warn the Quarians in Tali's trial that they need to focus on reapers and not geth.  Once ME3 starts, you see that the Alliance and everyone else just sat on their hands and that conventional victory is not possible. Instead we need the miraculous DEM macguffin

[Xerxes52]

I did OP. The Reaper's MO was divide and conquer. Paralyze all traffic and communication via the Citadel, then harvest the galaxy piecemeal. That was their main advantage, and it was logical to think that the Reaper's did so because they didn't have the capacity to take on a united galaxy.

ME1 and ME2 definitely felt like they were leading to a DA:O in space (which would have been awesome).

[JBPBRC]

Bill Casey wrote...

[Argetfalcon]

Going into ME3 I knew there was gonna be some kind of Deus Ex Machina. So I wasn't really disappointed

[SpamBot2000]

I did expect it, yes. I still do.

All the 'realist' objections are frankly missing the point.

[dreman9999]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

I did expect it, yes. I still do.

All the 'realist' objections are frankly missing the point.

What in the series points to the being possible?

[dreman9999]

Xerxes52 wrote...

I did OP. The Reaper's MO was divide and conquer. Paralyze all traffic and communication via the Citadel, then harvest the galaxy piecemeal. That was their main advantage, and it was logical to think that the Reaper's did so because they didn't have the capacity to take on a united galaxy.

ME1 and ME2 definitely felt like they were leading to a DA:O in space (which would have been awesome).

Do you know that DA:O was also an unconventional victory?

[tvman099]

If by conventional you mean no space magic or similar contrivance, then yes. Sovereign made it quite clear in ME1 that the galaxy's fleets in their current state were pretty pitiful next to the Reapers. I had originally figured that perhaps the key to defeating them would lie in discovering information about their origins and creation. Even the concept of a crucible-like device as a means to victory isn't a bad idea if integrated into the plot rather than pulled out of nowhere 15 minutes into the final act. Something extra was needed for victory.

[dreman9999]

[quote]PhoenixUK wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...



[/quote]1.This screams "can be beat conventionally"?


2. Not one racein ME preped for them...Not one....Out side of the geth.
On top of that they vastly out number us.If you think you can beat the convetionally After ME1 and 2...Your dreaming.
[/quote]

well ME1 looks pretty hopeless when Udina and the council shuts you out - you break out on your own and get to the conduit and save the day. ME2 is called a suicide mission - but its possible to beat the collectors and save your entire squad. it wasn't beyond reason by end of ME2 that you could defeat the reapers by force. yes the image shows there are a lot of reapers in ME2 final scene, but not clearly that they are so far beyond us.

As for preparation - again it wasn't inconceivable that some of the races would wake up and prepare. Cerberus, if no one else. You can warn the Quarians in Tali's trial that they need to focus on reapers and not geth.  Once ME3 starts, you see that the Alliance and everyone else just sat on their hands and that conventional victory is not possible. Instead we need the miraculous DEM macguffin
[/quote]
There's noting in ME1 OR 2 that says you able to stop the reaper conventionally. Heck, the collectors are nothing compared to the reapers.
In ME2 YOU BLOW UP A BASE TO DEFEAT THEM. There is nothing like that in ME3.

[dreman9999]

tvman099 wrote...

If by conventional you mean no space magic or similar contrivance, then yes. Sovereign made it quite clear in ME1 that the galaxy's fleets in their current state were pretty pitiful next to the Reapers. I had originally figured that perhaps the key to defeating them would lie in discovering information about their origins and creation. Even the concept of a crucible-like device as a means to victory isn't a bad idea if integrated into the plot rather than pulled out of nowhere 15 minutes into the final act. Something extra was needed for victory.

THis basicly coming down to "I don't like the catalyst".

[CmdrShep80]

Piplodocus wrote...

Picard is told the only way to stop the Borg is to blow up the Enterprise.

Though what is kind of funny is the 2nd time the Enterprise encounters the Borg (1st was Q sending them there) they just use an off switch called sleep that overloaded the Borg ship. But if you watch the series the Borg get better and better by the time Voyager comes along there is no easy off switch. I'm expecting the Reapers to be the same 

Modifié par CmdrShep80, 04 octobre 2012 - 04:55 .

[Necrotron]

No, I just expected anything that didn't feel like getting kicked in the junk by the main villain.

[Maxster_]

dreman9999 wrote...

tvman099 wrote...

If by conventional you mean no space magic or similar contrivance, then yes. Sovereign made it quite clear in ME1 that the galaxy's fleets in their current state were pretty pitiful next to the Reapers. I had originally figured that perhaps the key to defeating them would lie in discovering information about their origins and creation. Even the concept of a crucible-like device as a means to victory isn't a bad idea if integrated into the plot rather than pulled out of nowhere 15 minutes into the final act. Something extra was needed for victory.

THis basicly coming down to "I don't like the catalyst".

And now everyone obliged to like that retarded entity, which mere existence retconned ME1 into oblivion?