543 réponses à ce sujet

[Netsfn1427]

Maxster_ wrote...

Yeah, exactly that. Like an Expanded Universe, which is easily discarded by Lucas.

But they're not Lucas. And until they state otherwise, all the stuff, novels, DLC, comics are canon. 

I said preferences. And i meant, you like something or not.
As for EAWare retconning things - of course they can. They are the authors.

They retconned ME1 into oblivion with mere existance of the Catalyst.
And look, how good that turned out for them and their audience . Artists is nothing without audience, you know.

Not turning this into another artistic integrity debate.

[Netsfn1427]

Maxster_ wrote...

It was never in the games. As almost everything in Expanded Universe.

This isn't Star Wars buddy. So stop applying how George Lucas treats his universe to how Bioware does. You can bring that up if I start talking about how Darth Revan relates to Han Solo.

Bioware has made their extra content canon. That's all that matters to a discussion about a Bioware storyline.

Somehow i do not see on my copy of ME3 any sing of Leviathans. And haven't seen them in game.
If they are canon, where are they? Please point me a system, where i can find those mythical Leviathans.
I found Vigil on Ilos in ME1. I've never seen anything about leviathans in ME3. Where are they? Why can't i find them?
Please tell me.

See above.

Modifié par Netsfn1427, 07 octobre 2012 - 02:50 .

[Maxster_]

Netsfn1427 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

It was never in the games. As almost everything in Expanded Universe.

This isn't Star Wars buddy. So stop applying how George Lucas treats his universe to how Bioware does. You can bring that up if I start talking about how Darth Revan relates to Han Solo.

Bioware has made their extra content canon. That's all that matters to a discussion about a Bioware storyline.

Somehow i do not see on my copy of ME3 any sing of Leviathans. And haven't seen them in game.
If they are canon, where are they? Please point me a system, where i can find those mythical Leviathans.
I found Vigil on Ilos in ME1. I've never seen anything about leviathans in ME3. Where are they? Why can't i find them?
Please tell me.

See above.

You just discarding evidence in game, based on some "evidence" that was never in game.
Mass Effect series is games, you know.
While should i discard one evidence, that i saw in game, with one that i never saw in game?
If you are telling me, that leviathans in game, please describe where are they. I cannot find them in ME3.
They are not in ME3? Or i just can't find them?

Modifié par Maxster_, 07 octobre 2012 - 02:55 .

[Netsfn1427]

Maxster_ wrote...

You just discarding evidence in game, based on some "evidence" that was never in game.
Mass Effect series is games, you know.
While should i discard one evidence, that i saw in game, with one that i never saw in game?
If you are telling me, that leviathans in game, please describe where are they. I cannot find them in ME3.
They are not in ME3? Or i just can't find them?

Well if you want to get technical; the future versions of ME3, which contain the DLC, (I believe the ME3 trilogy will for example), will contain the Leviathans and Javik. So... what happens then? Are you saying the canon is different for you than it will be for them? Cause for them it will be in the game, for no extra charge.

[Maxster_]

Netsfn1427 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

You just discarding evidence in game, based on some "evidence" that was never in game.
Mass Effect series is games, you know.
While should i discard one evidence, that i saw in game, with one that i never saw in game?
If you are telling me, that leviathans in game, please describe where are they. I cannot find them in ME3.
They are not in ME3? Or i just can't find them?

Well if you want to get technical; the future versions of ME3, which contain the DLC, (I believe the ME3 trilogy will for example), will contain the Leviathans and Javik. So... what happens then? Are you saying the canon is different for you than it will be for them? Cause for them it will be in the game, for no extra charge.

I don't care anymore what sort of continuity-mutilation and lore-butchering they will invent. I will not buy something from EAWare ever again.
Please tell me, why i can find Vigil in ME1, and can't find any trace of leviathans in ME3?
Where are they? I somehow missed them?
Please specify where i can find them in game.

[drayfish]

Netsfn1427 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

You just discarding evidence in game, based on some "evidence" that was never in game.
Mass Effect series is games, you know.
While should i discard one evidence, that i saw in game, with one that i never saw in game?
If you are telling me, that leviathans in game, please describe where are they. I cannot find them in ME3.
They are not in ME3? Or i just can't find them?

Well if you want to get technical; the future versions of ME3, which contain the DLC, (I believe the ME3 trilogy will for example), will contain the Leviathans and Javik. So... what happens then? Are you saying the canon is different for you than it will be for them? Cause for them it will be in the game, for no extra charge.

Actually, for all of their contradictory opinions, the one thing Bioware was always consistent about was: there is no canon.

Some things are always going to happen (defeat Soveriegn, etc), but the how and the if of them are up to alteration - and even able to be utterly ignored.

That's why Sheaprd can both be the guy who blew up a bunch of Batarians (if you played 'Arrival'), and also be a guy on the street who hears about all that craziness second hand.

It's why Shepard can be the guy who helps Liara become the Shadown Broker, and also be surprised when she turns up announcing that she took down one of the universe's biggest mysteries by herself while you were on vacation.

Also, Casey Hudson himself promised that there would be nothing crucial to the Reaper storyline, the Protheans, or the cycles of genocide that was not included in the game.

See:

...Personally, I think that he was being rather misleading - as I do believe that 'Leviathan' is designed to give context to an otherwise nonsensically vague tale - but the authors of the text themselves disagree with your assessment.

Modifié par drayfish, 07 octobre 2012 - 03:09 .

[Netsfn1427]

Maxster_ wrote...

Netsfn1427 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

You just discarding evidence in game, based on some "evidence" that was never in game.
Mass Effect series is games, you know.
While should i discard one evidence, that i saw in game, with one that i never saw in game?
If you are telling me, that leviathans in game, please describe where are they. I cannot find them in ME3.
They are not in ME3? Or i just can't find them?

Well if you want to get technical; the future versions of ME3, which contain the DLC, (I believe the ME3 trilogy will for example), will contain the Leviathans and Javik. So... what happens then? Are you saying the canon is different for you than it will be for them? Cause for them it will be in the game, for no extra charge.

I don't care anymore what sort of continuity-mutilation and lore-butchering they will invent. I will not buy something from EAWare ever again.
Please tell me, why i can find Vigil in ME1, and can't find any trace of leviathans in ME3?
Where are they? I somehow missed them?
Please specify where i can find them in game.

If you don't care, why are you still here? Cause this is a discussion board where we are discussing the plot of the ME series, which includes ME3 and includes Leviathan DLC. In case you haven't noticed, there's a discussion thread for that specifically as well on the top of the board.

Btw, so Javik doesn't exist in ME3 canon? Good to know. A lot of people who played ME3 are going to be very disappointed to learn he was just part of their headcanon.

[Netsfn1427]

drayfish wrote...

Netsfn1427 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

You just discarding evidence in game, based on some "evidence" that was never in game.
Mass Effect series is games, you know.
While should i discard one evidence, that i saw in game, with one that i never saw in game?
If you are telling me, that leviathans in game, please describe where are they. I cannot find them in ME3.
They are not in ME3? Or i just can't find them?

Well if you want to get technical; the future versions of ME3, which contain the DLC, (I believe the ME3 trilogy will for example), will contain the Leviathans and Javik. So... what happens then? Are you saying the canon is different for you than it will be for them? Cause for them it will be in the game, for no extra charge.

Actually, for all of their contradictory opinions, the one thing Bioware was always consistent about was: there is no canon.

Some things are always going to happen (defeat Soveriegn, etc), but the how and the if of them are up to alteration - and even able to be utterly ignored.

That's why Sheaprd can both be the guy who blew up a bunch of Batarians (if you played 'Arrival'), and also be a guy on the street who hears about all that craziness second hand.

It's why Shepard can be the guy who helps Liara become the Shadown Broker, and also be surprised when she turns up announcing that she took down one of the universe's biggest mysteries by herself while you were on vacation.

Also, Casey Hudson himself promised that there would be nothing crucial to the Reaper storyline, the Protheans, or the cycles of genocide that was not included in the game.

See:

...Personally, I think that he was being rather misleading - as I do believe that 'Leviathan' is designed to give context to an otherwise nonsensically vague tale - but the authors of the text themselves disagree with your assessment.

The thing is those events still happen, just it isn't Shepard who takes part in them. So in the case of the Leviathan, if Shepard doesn't learn their story about the Catalyst being created, it's like any piece of unknown information. The information still exists and is true, it just isn't known to Shepard. It doesn't change that it exists. So I suspect that any future ME storyline that involves the Reapers will have some passing reference to the Leviathans, though it might end up being some unknown alliance Black Ops team that talked to it and learned the Reaper origins.

[Maxster_]

Netsfn1427 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Netsfn1427 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

You just discarding evidence in game, based on some "evidence" that was never in game.
Mass Effect series is games, you know.
While should i discard one evidence, that i saw in game, with one that i never saw in game?
If you are telling me, that leviathans in game, please describe where are they. I cannot find them in ME3.
They are not in ME3? Or i just can't find them?

Well if you want to get technical; the future versions of ME3, which contain the DLC, (I believe the ME3 trilogy will for example), will contain the Leviathans and Javik. So... what happens then? Are you saying the canon is different for you than it will be for them? Cause for them it will be in the game, for no extra charge.

I don't care anymore what sort of continuity-mutilation and lore-butchering they will invent. I will not buy something from EAWare ever again.
Please tell me, why i can find Vigil in ME1, and can't find any trace of leviathans in ME3?
Where are they? I somehow missed them?
Please specify where i can find them in game.

If you don't care, why are you still here? Cause this is a discussion board where we are discussing the plot of the ME series, which includes ME3 and includes Leviathan DLC. In case you haven't noticed, there's a discussion thread for that specifically as well on the top of the board.

Btw, so Javik doesn't exist in ME3 canon? Good to know. A lot of people who played ME3 are going to be very disappointed to learn he was just part of their headcanon.

What i'm doing here is irrelevant to a point.
And point is - where in ME3 game i can find leviathans?
When i bought Star Wars videocasettes(all 3) in 1996 year, i saw that scene in Episode V, when Darth Vader revealed that he is Luke's father.
When I bought ME1 in 2008(PC version), i eventually got to Ilos, and Shepard spoken with Vigil.
When i bought ME3 in 6 march 2012, i could not find any sign of Leviathans in game. Only ship named Leviathan of Dis, which, as being implied in game, is most probably the reaper.
You are talking about this specific ship? It was never shown in game.

You can't answer a simple questions?
Why i can't find any trace of leviathans in ME3? I overlooked them? There is specific conversation i missed? Specific planet i missed?
Where i can find leviathans in ME3?

Why i should discard Vigil's conversation, because of something i never saw in game?

Modifié par Maxster_, 07 octobre 2012 - 03:32 .

[Jamie9]

Maxster_ wrote...
What i'm doing here is irrelevant to a point.
And point is - where in ME3 game i can find leviathans?
When i bought Star Wars videocasettes(all 3) in 1996 year, i saw that scene in Episode V, when Darth Vader revealed that he is Luke's father.
When I bought ME1 in 2008(PC version), i eventually got to Ilos, and Shepard spoken with Vigil.
When i bought ME3 in 6 march 2012, i could not find any sign of Leviathans in game. Only ship named Leviathan of Dis, which, as being implied in game, is most probably the reaper.
You are talking about this specific ship? It was never shown in game.

You can't answer a simple questions?
Why i can't find any trace of leviathans in ME3? I overlooked them? There is specific conversation i missed? Specific planet i missed?
Where i can find leviathans in ME3?

Why i should discard Vigil's conversation, because of something i never saw in game?

The Leviathans are in the Leviathan DLC. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Suppose this: You stop playing ME1 during Virmire. The rest of the game still happens. Shepard still makes it to Ilos. You just never see it.

And Star Wars is the WORST example of this you could bring up. You know that video you watched of the original Star Wars films in 1996? You missed some scenes that are canon too, from the re-releases!

Again, just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Canon, and events, do not revolve around you.

[Netsfn1427]

Maxster_ wrote...

What i'm doing here is irrelevant to a point.
And point is - where in ME3 game i can find leviathans?
When i bought Star Wars videocasettes(all 3) in 1996 year, i saw that scene in Episode V, when Darth Vader revealed that he is Luke's father.
When I bought ME1 in 2008(PC version), i eventually got to Ilos, and Shepard spoken with Vigil.
When i bought ME3 in 6 march 2012, i could not find any sign of Leviathans in game. Only ship named Leviathan of Dis, which, as being implied in game, is most probably the reaper.
You are talking about this specific ship? It was never shown in game.

You can't answer a simple questions?
Why i can't find any trace of leviathans in ME3? I overlooked them? There is specific conversation i missed? Specific planet i missed?
Where i can find leviathans in ME3?

Why i should discard Vigil's conversation, because of something i never saw in game?

So Javik doesn't exist then? Can I take it further to where anything I have to pay to view and access I can just deny exists?

Yeah, Leviathan is DLC. You can pretend it doesn't exist, but that's all you're doing, pretending. If I choose not to buy any products in a series, and the series still continues, I can pretend that stuff doesn't exist. But if I talk to anyone who has read the series, I can't then tell them their continuity is BS because I didn't buy the next book/comic etc.

[Netsfn1427]

Jamie9 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
What i'm doing here is irrelevant to a point.
And point is - where in ME3 game i can find leviathans?
When i bought Star Wars videocasettes(all 3) in 1996 year, i saw that scene in Episode V, when Darth Vader revealed that he is Luke's father.
When I bought ME1 in 2008(PC version), i eventually got to Ilos, and Shepard spoken with Vigil.
When i bought ME3 in 6 march 2012, i could not find any sign of Leviathans in game. Only ship named Leviathan of Dis, which, as being implied in game, is most probably the reaper.
You are talking about this specific ship? It was never shown in game.

You can't answer a simple questions?
Why i can't find any trace of leviathans in ME3? I overlooked them? There is specific conversation i missed? Specific planet i missed?
Where i can find leviathans in ME3?

Why i should discard Vigil's conversation, because of something i never saw in game?

The Leviathans are in the Leviathan DLC. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Suppose this: You stop playing ME1 during Virmire. The rest of the game still happens. Shepard still makes it to Ilos. You just never see it.

And Star Wars is the WORST example of this you could bring up. You know that video you watched of the original Star Wars films in 1996? You missed some scenes that are canon too, from the re-releases!

Again, just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Canon, and events, do not revolve around you.

THANK YOU. It's so nice to have someone else say it. It's been like slamming my head against the wall.

[Jamie9]

Netsfn1427 wrote...
THANK YOU. It's so nice to have someone else say it. It's been like slamming my head against the wall.

Ha ha. I've had that feeling before. More often in forums than in real life, thankfully.

[Maxster_]

Jamie9 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
What i'm doing here is irrelevant to a point.
And point is - where in ME3 game i can find leviathans?
When i bought Star Wars videocasettes(all 3) in 1996 year, i saw that scene in Episode V, when Darth Vader revealed that he is Luke's father.
When I bought ME1 in 2008(PC version), i eventually got to Ilos, and Shepard spoken with Vigil.
When i bought ME3 in 6 march 2012, i could not find any sign of Leviathans in game. Only ship named Leviathan of Dis, which, as being implied in game, is most probably the reaper.
You are talking about this specific ship? It was never shown in game.

You can't answer a simple questions?
Why i can't find any trace of leviathans in ME3? I overlooked them? There is specific conversation i missed? Specific planet i missed?
Where i can find leviathans in ME3?

Why i should discard Vigil's conversation, because of something i never saw in game?

The Leviathans are in the Leviathan DLC. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Suppose this: You stop playing ME1 during Virmire. The rest of the game still happens. Shepard still makes it to Ilos. You just never see it.

If i stopped on Virmire, i'd never seen Ilos.
But i haven't stopped.
I played forward and eventually saw Vigil, and my Shepard had a conversation with Vigil.
I also read Crime and Punishment, right to the ending, with Raskolnikov's confession and remorse.
I also played ME3 to the end.
And never saw any leviathans in the game.

And Star Wars is the WORST example of this you could bring up. You know that video you watched of the original Star Wars films in 1996? You missed some scenes that are canon too, from the re-releases!

So, in re-release version there were no Vader's reveal about he is Luke father?

Again, just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Canon, and events, do not revolve around you.

So, you are telling me, that something called "leviathans" is canon, and conversation with those mysterious "leviathans" is canon also.

So i'm asking you, as you are obviously know the lore.
I bought ME3 on 6 march.
Where i can find those "leviathans"? Where are they? Who are they?
I missed specific conversation? Please point me to it. I missed specific planet? Please point me to that planet, system and cluster.
Where are leviathans in ME3? Can you answer this simple question?

[Maxster_]

Netsfn1427 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

What i'm doing here is irrelevant to a point.
And point is - where in ME3 game i can find leviathans?
When i bought Star Wars videocasettes(all 3) in 1996 year, i saw that scene in Episode V, when Darth Vader revealed that he is Luke's father.
When I bought ME1 in 2008(PC version), i eventually got to Ilos, and Shepard spoken with Vigil.
When i bought ME3 in 6 march 2012, i could not find any sign of Leviathans in game. Only ship named Leviathan of Dis, which, as being implied in game, is most probably the reaper.
You are talking about this specific ship? It was never shown in game.

You can't answer a simple questions?
Why i can't find any trace of leviathans in ME3? I overlooked them? There is specific conversation i missed? Specific planet i missed?
Where i can find leviathans in ME3?

Why i should discard Vigil's conversation, because of something i never saw in game?

So Javik doesn't exist then? Can I take it further to where anything I have to pay to view and access I can just deny exists?

Yeah, Leviathan is DLC. You can pretend it doesn't exist, but that's all you're doing, pretending. If I choose not to buy any products in a series, and the series still continues, I can pretend that stuff doesn't exist. But if I talk to anyone who has read the series, I can't then tell them their continuity is BS because I didn't buy the next book/comic etc.

Why are you evading my question?
You can't answer simple question?
I bought ME3 on 6 march.
Where can i find those leviathans in game? You said that they are canon. So they must be in game.
Where are they?

[Xilizhra]

Why are you evading my question?
You can't answer simple question?
I bought ME3 on 6 march.
Where can i find those leviathans in game? You said that they are canon. So they must be in game.
Where are they?

The planet Despoina. It takes a bit of searching, but you'll find them.

[Maxster_]

Xilizhra wrote...

Why are you evading my question?
You can't answer simple question?
I bought ME3 on 6 march.
Where can i find those leviathans in game? You said that they are canon. So they must be in game.
Where are they?

The planet Despoina. It takes a bit of searching, but you'll find them.

And cluster?

[Netsfn1427]

Maxster_ wrote...

Why are you evading my question?
You can't answer simple question?
I bought ME3 on 6 march.
Where can i find those leviathans in game? You said that they are canon. So they must be in game.
Where are they?

Not evading. They aren't in the original game. But Bioware's lore does not require they be in the games to be canon.

Even events like LOTSB and Arrival, in which the exact details of the events are not canon, the events themselves are canon. Liara becomes the Shadow Broker. The Alpha Relay is destroyed and the Batarians in that system wiped out.

So the Leviathans happened. They exist. Much like LOTSB and Arrival, the only canon question is whether Shepard him/herself met them. But their story is very much canon. And it overrides Vigil.

[Maxster_]

Netsfn1427 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Why are you evading my question?
You can't answer simple question?
I bought ME3 on 6 march.
Where can i find those leviathans in game? You said that they are canon. So they must be in game.
Where are they?

Not evading. They aren't in the original game. But Bioware's lore does not require they be in the games to be canon.

Even events like LOTSB and Arrival, in which the exact details of the events are not canon, the events themselves are canon. Liara becomes the Shadow Broker. The Alpha Relay is destroyed and the Batarians in that system wiped out.

So the Leviathans happened. They exist. Much like LOTSB and Arrival, the only canon question is whether Shepard him/herself met them. But their story is very much canon. And it overrides Vigil.

So you are saying they are exists.
If leviathans exists, why i can't find them in game?
When i bought complete game ME1 in 2008, i eventually got to Ilos, where my Shepard had conversation with Vigil.
When i bought complete game ME3 in 6 march of 2012, i have never saw leviathans, and thus had no conversations with them.
I missed them somehow?
Where i can find leviathans in ME3? You are saying that they are exists, that they are canon, but i CAN NOT find them.
Where are they?

Modifié par Maxster_, 07 octobre 2012 - 04:03 .

[Jamie9]

Maxster_ wrote...
If i stopped on Virmire, i'd never seen Ilos.
But i haven't stopped.
I played forward and eventually saw Vigil, and my Shepard had a conversation with Vigil.
I also read Crime and Punishment, right to the ending, with Raskolnikov's confession and remorse.
I also played ME3 to the end.
And never saw any leviathans in the game.

See all those "I"s? They have no place in this conversation. Shepard isn't your character. It's not my character either. Neither of us decide what is canon. Yes, you can decide whether Shepard blows up the Collector Base or not. But the writers designed BOTH of those choices.

The writers decide everything, they give you "choices" but there is no choice to disobey the writers. Whether you stopped or not is irrelevant, all that matters it that the writers did not.

Maxster_ wrote...
So, in re-release version there were no Vader's reveal about he is Luke father?

Did you know Han doesn't shoot first?

Maxster_wrote...
So, you are telling me, that something called "leviathans" is canon, and conversation with those mysterious "leviathans" is canon also.

So i'm asking you, as you are obviously know the lore.
I bought ME3 on 6 march.
Where i can find those "leviathans"? Where are they? Who are they?
I missed specific conversation? Please point me to it. I missed specific planet? Please point me to that planet, system and cluster.
Where are leviathans in ME3? Can you answer this simple question?

They're on Despoina. It's the "director's cut" of Mass Effect 3, released after March 6. You're getting the original experience, but not the "true" one the writers intend.

In fact, some of the things you have seen have been directly retconned since then by this "director's cut".

And, you know what Maxster? You are free to ignore the DLC. In your imaginary ME world, they didn't happen. I do it, in fact. In MY imaginary ME world, the comic "Evolution" didn't happen because I thought it was stupid.

But that's just my imagination, the world I have personally created. A world where I can blissfully ignore events that I do not like.

But it's not the true ME world. It's not the writers' world. And it has no place on this forum.

Modifié par Jamie9, 07 octobre 2012 - 04:07 .

[Xilizhra]

Maxster_ wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Why are you evading my question?
You can't answer simple question?
I bought ME3 on 6 march.
Where can i find those leviathans in game? You said that they are canon. So they must be in game.
Where are they?

The planet Despoina. It takes a bit of searching, but you'll find them.

And cluster?

Sigurd's Cradle, Psi Tophet system, but you'll need to go through some quests beforehand. They start on the Citadel.

[Netsfn1427]

Maxster_ wrote...

Netsfn1427 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Why are you evading my question?
You can't answer simple question?
I bought ME3 on 6 march.
Where can i find those leviathans in game? You said that they are canon. So they must be in game.
Where are they?

Not evading. They aren't in the original game. But Bioware's lore does not require they be in the games to be canon.

Even events like LOTSB and Arrival, in which the exact details of the events are not canon, the events themselves are canon. Liara becomes the Shadow Broker. The Alpha Relay is destroyed and the Batarians in that system wiped out.

So the Leviathans happened. They exist. Much like LOTSB and Arrival, the only canon question is whether Shepard him/herself met them. But their story is very much canon. And it overrides Vigil.

So you are saying they are exists.
If leviathans exists, why i can't find them in game?
When i bought complete game ME1 in 2008, i eventually got to Ilos, where my Shepard had conversation with Vigil.
When i bought complete game ME3 in 6 march of 2012, i have never saw leviathans, and thus had no conversations with them.
I missed them somehow?
Where i can find leviathans in ME3? You are saying that they are exists, that they are canon, but i CAN NOT find them.
Where are they?

And I'll repeat this again: They aren't in the original game. But Bioware's lore does not require they be in the games to be canon.

Even
events like LOTSB and Arrival, in which the exact details of the events
are not canon, the events themselves are canon. Liara becomes the
Shadow Broker. The Alpha Relay is destroyed and the Batarians in that
system wiped out.

So the Leviathans happened. They exist. Much
like LOTSB and Arrival, the only canon question is whether Shepard
him/herself met them. But their story is very much canon. And it
overrides Vigil.

And with that, I'm done. You're not bothering to advance the debate because you know you've lost this point. You're clinging to another universe's definition of EU and canon and disregarding the realities of the storyline and company that is being discussed. Bioware's storyline isn't just confined to the games and DLC events still count towards canon.

[Netsfn1427]

Jamie9 wrote...


They're on Despoina. It's the "director's cut" of Mass Effect 3, released after March 6. You're getting the original experience, but not the "true" one the writers intend.

In fact, some of the things you have seen have been directly retconned since then by this "director's cut".

And, you know what Maxster? You are free to ignore the DLC. In your imaginary ME world, they didn't happen. I do it, in fact. In MY imaginary ME world, the comic "Evolution" didn't happen because I thought it was stupid.

But that's just my imagination, the world I have personally created. A world where I can blissfully ignore events that I do not like.

But it's not the true ME world. It's not the writers' world. And it has no place on this forum.

Bravo sir. You said it better in two posts than I have in three pages worth of back and forth.

[Maxster_]

Jamie9 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
If i stopped on Virmire, i'd never seen Ilos.
But i haven't stopped.
I played forward and eventually saw Vigil, and my Shepard had a conversation with Vigil.
I also read Crime and Punishment, right to the ending, with Raskolnikov's confession and remorse.
I also played ME3 to the end.
And never saw any leviathans in the game.

See all those "I"s? They have no place in this conversation. Shepard isn't your character. It's not my character either. Neither of us decide what is canon. Yes, you can decide whether Shepard blows up the Collector Base or not. But the writers designed BOTH of those choices.

The writers decide everything, they give you "choices" but there is no choice to disobey the writers. Whether you stopped or not is irrelevant, all that matters it that the writers did not.

Shepard my character or Shepard not my character is irrelevant to a point, and theme for another debate.

I bought complete game ME1 in 2008 year. Eventually got to Ilos, where my Shepard had conversation with Vigil.
I bought complete game ME3 on march 6 2012 year. I never found anything about leviathans, less that supposed conversation with them.
Where I can find leviathans in complete game ME3, that i bought on march 6 2012? It is a simple question, especially for someone who knows the lore.

Maxster_ wrote...
So, in re-release version there were no Vader's reveal about he is Luke father?

Did you know Han doesn't shoot first?

Answer a question i asked. Is it so hard, that you are evading it?
So, in re-release version there were no Vader's reveal about he is Luke father?

Maxster_wrote...
So, you are telling me, that something called "leviathans" is canon, and conversation with those mysterious "leviathans" is canon also.

So i'm asking you, as you are obviously know the lore.
I bought ME3 on 6 march.
Where i can find those "leviathans"? Where are they? Who are they?
I missed specific conversation? Please point me to it. I missed specific planet? Please point me to that planet, system and cluster.
Where are leviathans in ME3? Can you answer this simple question?

They're on Despoina. It's the "director's cut" of Mass Effect 3, released after March 6. You're getting the original experience, but not the "true" one the writers intend.

In fact, some of the things you have seen have been directly retconned since then by this "director's cut".

Where are they in the Extended cut? I installed that free patch, and there were no conversation with mysterious leviathans.

[Maxster_]

Netsfn1427 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Netsfn1427 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Why are you evading my question?
You can't answer simple question?
I bought ME3 on 6 march.
Where can i find those leviathans in game? You said that they are canon. So they must be in game.
Where are they?

Not evading. They aren't in the original game. But Bioware's lore does not require they be in the games to be canon.

Even events like LOTSB and Arrival, in which the exact details of the events are not canon, the events themselves are canon. Liara becomes the Shadow Broker. The Alpha Relay is destroyed and the Batarians in that system wiped out.

So the Leviathans happened. They exist. Much like LOTSB and Arrival, the only canon question is whether Shepard him/herself met them. But their story is very much canon. And it overrides Vigil.

So you are saying they are exists.
If leviathans exists, why i can't find them in game?
When i bought complete game ME1 in 2008, i eventually got to Ilos, where my Shepard had conversation with Vigil.
When i bought complete game ME3 in 6 march of 2012, i have never saw leviathans, and thus had no conversations with them.
I missed them somehow?
Where i can find leviathans in ME3? You are saying that they are exists, that they are canon, but i CAN NOT find them.
Where are they?

And I'll repeat this again: They aren't in the original game. But Bioware's lore does not require they be in the games to be canon.

Even
events like LOTSB and Arrival, in which the exact details of the events
are not canon, the events themselves are canon. Liara becomes the
Shadow Broker. The Alpha Relay is destroyed and the Batarians in that
system wiped out.

So the Leviathans happened. They exist. Much
like LOTSB and Arrival, the only canon question is whether Shepard
him/herself met them. But their story is very much canon. And it
overrides Vigil.

And with that, I'm done. You're not bothering to advance the debate because you know you've lost this point. You're clinging to another universe's definition of EU and canon and disregarding the realities of the storyline and company that is being discussed. Bioware's storyline isn't just confined to the games and DLC events still count towards canon.

Why you are evading a simple question?
I bought a complete game ME1 in 2008, there was Ilos and Vigil.
I bought a complete game ME3 on 6 march 2012, there was no leviathans.
Where are leviathans in ME3?

You are implying, that EAWare sold incomplete product? And now extorting money from fans so fans can get complete product? I thought you like and respect EAWare.

Modifié par Maxster_, 07 octobre 2012 - 04:20 .