543 réponses à ce sujet

[Jamie9]

Maxster_ wrote...
Shepard my character or Shepard not my character is irrelevant to a point, and theme for another debate.

I bought complete game ME1 in 2008 year. Eventually got to Ilos, where my Shepard had conversation with Vigil.
I bought complete game ME3 on march 6 2012 year. I never found anything about leviathans, less that supposed conversation with them.
Where I can find leviathans in complete game ME3, that i bought on march 6 2012? It is a simple question, especially for someone who knows the lore.

You keep repeating the same points. For the sake of not repeating myself, I'm only going to present new information.

The complete Mass Effect experience was indeed released in 2008. It included 2 DLCs. The complete Mass Effect 2 experience was released in 2011. It included 5 major lore DLCs. The complete Mass Effect 3 experience has yet to be released, though it's tentative release date is 2013.

Let me ask you this: What is the difference between Mass Effect 3 (the $60/£40 product), and Leviathan? Does the content have to be a certain price to be canon? Well, what about free-2-play games? They are never canon?

Does it have to be a certain length? It's only canon if it's at least 10 hours long? People have speedrun through the main games much faster than that.

You're accepting part of the lore, not the whole.

Maxster_ wrote...
Answer a question i asked. Is it so hard, that you are evading it?
So, in re-release version there were no Vader's reveal about he is Luke father?

Yes, that still happened. They changed Luke's reactions in that scene twice though. Here's a list of changes made in those films, all of which supercede the previous versions:
http://www.thegeektw...changes-to.html

Maxster_wrote...
Where are they in the Extended cut? I installed that free patch, and there were no conversation with mysterious leviathans.

Why is the Extended Cut canon, but Leviathan not so? Please explain this to me, referring to the questions I made above.

[Jamie9]

Maxster_ wrote...
You are implying, that EAWare sold incomplete product? And now extorting money from fans so fans can get complete product? I thought you like and respect EAWare.

Umm... what?

How do our stances on canon affect our opinion of BioWare? How are those two arguments related?

I fully believe "From Ashes" was taken off the main product to sell as Day 1 DLC. And it's a despicable business practice. This doesn't affect it's validity as canon in the slightest.

However! DLC is not, as a concept, an inherently bad thing. DLC is just a smaller, cheaper form of the expansion packs of old. And most of them are made after release. After the product was finished. Am I surprised they expect to be paid for making more content? No. They have to keep the lights on.

Edit: Nobody saw those obvious spelling mistakes.

Modifié par Jamie9, 07 octobre 2012 - 04:40 .

[Maxster_]

Jamie9 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
Shepard my character or Shepard not my character is irrelevant to a point, and theme for another debate.

I bought complete game ME1 in 2008 year. Eventually got to Ilos, where my Shepard had conversation with Vigil.
I bought complete game ME3 on march 6 2012 year. I never found anything about leviathans, less that supposed conversation with them.
Where I can find leviathans in complete game ME3, that i bought on march 6 2012? It is a simple question, especially for someone who knows the lore.

You keep repeating the same points. For the sake of not repeating myself, I'm only going to present new information.

The complete Mass Effect experience was indeed released in 2008. It included 2 DLCs. The complete Mass Effect 2 experience was released in 2011. It included 5 major lore DLCs. The complete Mass Effect 3 experience has yet to be released, though it's tentative release date is 2013.

Let me ask you this: What is the difference between Mass Effect 3 (the $60/£40 product), and Leviathan? Does the content have to be a certain price to be canon? Well, what about free-2-play games? They are never canon?

Does it have to be a certain length? It's only canon if it's at least 10 hours long? People have speedrun through the main games much faster than that.

You're accepting part of the lore, not the whole.

It was a really simple question.
And you answered that those games were incomplete. Is it normal to release a incomplete product advertising it as complete? To extort more money? I though that is punishable by law in the US/Canada.
You are telling me, that films are sliced to pieces and each piece sold individually as a complete product?
You are telling me, that books are sliced to pieces and each piece sold individually as a complete product?

You are saying, that something i never saw in complete game, is a lore for a that said game? Dafuq?
I can find Vigil in ME1. He is canon. I can find Sovereign in game, he is also canon
But i can not find leviathans in any game of the series, and they are canon? You are mocking me? How can be that something which is not a part of a work of fiction, be a canon for that fiction? It is nonsense.

Maxster_ wrote...
Answer a question i asked. Is it so hard, that you are evading it?
So, in re-release version there were no Vader's reveal about he is Luke father?

Yes, that still happened. They changed Luke's reactions in that scene twice though. Here's a list of changes made in those films, all of which supercede the previous versions:
http://www.thegeektw...changes-to.html

So, they haven't removed Vader's reveal. And haven't retroactively completely changed story of Luke and Vader.

Maxster_wrote...
Where are they in the Extended cut? I installed that free patch, and there were no conversation with mysterious leviathans.

Why is the Extended Cut canon, but Leviathan not so? Please explain this to me, referring to the questions I made above.

Extended cut was a patch to correct some plot holes. And well, added so more You are telling me, that EAWare admitted that they released incomplete and broken product, and decided to change and retcon it?
Also, as i get it, you are saying that i will not find leviathans with the EC.
At the same time, you are saying that they are canon, and their conversation is canon.
But i can not find them in ME3.
You are saying, that EAWare deliberately released incomplete product to extort money from fans, which are like that product, and want to get a complete version of a product?

[Maxster_]

Jamie9 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
You are implying, that EAWare sold incomplete product? And now extorting money from fans so fans can get complete product? I thought you like and respect EAWare.

Umm... what?

How do our stances on canon affect our opinion of BioWare? How are those two arguments related?

I fully believe "From Ashes" was taken off the main product to sell as Day 1 DLC. And it's a despicable business practice. This doesn't affect it's validity as canon in the slightest.

However! DLC is not, as a concept, an inherently bad thing. DLC is just a smaller, cheaper form of the expansion packs of old. And most of them are made after release. After the product was finished. Am I surprised they expect to be paid for making more content? No. They have to keep the lights on.

Edit: Nobody saw those obvious spelling mistakes.

You are saying, that something that is not a part of work of fiction, should be considered canon for that said fiction.
It is nonsense.

[Jamie9]

Maxster_ wrote...
It was a really simple question.
And you answered that those games were incomplete. Is it normal to release a incomplete product advertising it as complete? To extort more money? I though that is punishable by law in the US/Canada.
You are telling me, that films are sliced to pieces and each piece sold individually as a complete product?
You are telling me, that books are sliced to pieces and each piece sold individually as a complete product?

You are saying, that something i never saw in complete game, is a lore for a that said game? Dafuq?
I can find Vigil in ME1. He is canon. I can find Sovereign in game, he is also canon
But i can not find leviathans in any game of the series, and they are canon? You are mocking me? How can be that something which is not a part of a work of fiction, be a canon for that fiction? It is nonsense.

You use that word, "extort", but it does not mean what you think it means.

"Leviathan" was 0% done on release. If they hadn't released it as DLC, we'd never have got it. It costs money because they spent money making it. They ask to be reimbursed so they can make more content. That's pretty much the contract you agree to on purchase of any product.

Yes. "The Hobbit" is being split into 3 separate, but equally complete films. You will have to pay not only to see the next two, but also to buy the Extended Editions which have already been announced. None of that is extortion, and all of it, including the extended scenes, will be canon.

The reason you can't find evidence of the Leviathans is because you do not own the complete package (as of now) of Mass Effect 3. I suggest you purchase it. "Leviathan" is really good, and the titular character has quite the Deep is Epic.

Maxster_ wrote...
So, they haven't removed Vader's reveal. And haven't retroactively completely changed story of Luke and Vader.

Technically, Vader wasn't originally Luke's father so...

Oh, and yes. Lucas will tell you he planned out all 12 films from the beginning. He didn't.

Maxster_ wrote...
Extended cut was a patch to correct some plot holes. And well, added so more You are telling me, that EAWare admitted that they released incomplete and broken product, and decided to change and retcon it?
Also, as i get it, you are saying that i will not find leviathans with the EC.
At the same time, you are saying that they are canon, and their conversation is canon.
But i can not find them in ME3.
You are saying, that EAWare deliberately released incomplete product to extort money from fans, which are like that product, and want to get a complete version of a product?

The Extended Cut was not a patch. It was advertised as a DLC on the Xbox/PSN/Origin Store, by BioWare's press releases, by reviewers and the Mass Effect Wiki. Every source apart from you, it seems. Guess which one sounds more plausable.

You don't seem to know the meaning of the word "extort". You don't seem to know the meaning of an incomplete product. You've never heard of director's cuts of films, or 2nd editions of novels.

Ask specifically what you don't understand, without pasting previous comments, and I'll try to answer them. Otherwise, this exchange is over.

Modifié par Jamie9, 07 octobre 2012 - 05:10 .

[Maxster_]

Jamie9 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
It was a really simple question.
And you answered that those games were incomplete. Is it normal to release a incomplete product advertising it as complete? To extort more money? I though that is punishable by law in the US/Canada.
You are telling me, that films are sliced to pieces and each piece sold individually as a complete product?
You are telling me, that books are sliced to pieces and each piece sold individually as a complete product?

You are saying, that something i never saw in complete game, is a lore for a that said game? Dafuq?
I can find Vigil in ME1. He is canon. I can find Sovereign in game, he is also canon
But i can not find leviathans in any game of the series, and they are canon? You are mocking me? How can be that something which is not a part of a work of fiction, be a canon for that fiction? It is nonsense.

You use that word, "extort", but it does not mean what you think it means.

"Leviathan" was 0% done on release. If they hadn't released it as DLC, we'd never have got it. It costs money because they spent money making it. They ask to be reimbursed so they can make more content. That's pretty much the contract you agree to on purchase of any product.

Yes. "The Hobbit" is being split into 3 separate, but equally complete films. You will have to pay not only to see the next two, but also to buy the Extended Editions which have already been announced. None of that is extortion, and all of it, including the extended scenes, will be canon.

The reason you can't find evidence of the Leviathans is because you do not own the complete package (as of now) of Mass Effect 3. I suggest you purchase it. "Leviathan" is really good, and the titular character has quite the Deep is Epic.

So, i finally got an answer. Well, sort of.
First, you know that Hobbit is a finished book? It was never released as a film by an author(Tolkien), and never intended to. So it is irrelevant.
My parents bought me "hobbit" when i was in school(20 or something years ago). It was finished.
I also read Lord of the Rings. And also saw films. Please point me, where i can see Tom Bombadil(which are canon), in those movies.
Movies is whole other type of fiction.

ME series is a games made by Bioware(some time later Bioware became EAWare).
ME1 is a game. I bought it, and saw Vigil conversation with my Shepard.
ME2 is a game.
ME3 is a game. I bought it and never saw any "leviathans".

And no, my buisiness with EAWare is forever over. I despise them, and won't spend another rouble on their lore-butchering nonsense.

Maxster_ wrote...
Extended cut was a patch to correct some plot holes. And well, added so more You are telling me, that EAWare admitted that they released incomplete and broken product, and decided to change and retcon it?
Also, as i get it, you are saying that i will not find leviathans with the EC.
At the same time, you are saying that they are canon, and their conversation is canon.
But i can not find them in ME3.
You are saying, that EAWare deliberately released incomplete product to extort money from fans, which are like that product, and want to get a complete version of a product?

The Extended Cut was not a patch. It was advertised as a DLC on the Xbox/PSN/Origin Store, by BioWare's press releases, by reviewers and the Mass Effect Wiki. Every source apart from you, it seems. Guess which one sounds more plausable.

Irrelevant.

You don't know the meaning of the word "extort". You don't know the meaning of an incomplete product. You've never heard of director's cuts of films, or 2nd editions of novels.

At this point, I'm pretty sure you're not from Earth. You don't seem to have the cultural knowledge that is required to contextualise this concept, and that's not something I can demonstrate or teach you over the internet.

Suffice to say, ignorance is bliss. You seem happy enough and I see no reason to ruin that.

It is irrelevant, that is good(for someone) addition to a game.
If leviathans are canon - where are they in my game? They made shortened version of ME3 for Russia?
Why should something that is not part of the work of fiction, be considered a canon for said fiction?
Like Lord of the Rings movies, you are saying that because of those movies, Tom Bombadil never existed in books "Lord of the Ring" by Tolkien? Dafuq?
It is nonsense.

[Jamie9]

Maxster_ wrote...
So, i finally got an answer. Well, sort of.
First, you know that Hobbit is a finished book? It was never released as a film by an author(Tolkien), and never intended to. So it is irrelevant.
My parents bought me "hobbit" when i was in school(20 or something years ago). It was finished.
I also read Lord of the Rings. And also saw films. Please point me, where i can see Tom Bombadil(which are canon), in those movies.
Movies is whole other type of fiction.

ME series is a games made by Bioware(some time later Bioware became EAWare).
ME1 is a game. I bought it, and saw Vigil conversation with my Shepard.
ME2 is a game.
ME3 is a game. I bought it and never saw any "leviathans".

And no, my buisiness with EAWare is forever over. I despise them, and won't spend another rouble on their lore-butchering nonsense.

Yep. Published waaaay back in 1937, I believe (I could confirm it through wikipedia but never mind ).

Movies are certainly a different type of fiction, but the way canon works can apply the same to novels, movies and games.

Novels have 2nd editions. These include revised scenes, added scenes. All of it is canon, supercedes 1st edition.

Movies have director's cuts. These include revised scenes, added scenes. All of it is canon, supercedes theatrical release.

Games have GOTY editions. These include revised scenes, added scenes. All of it is canon, supercedes original release.

It's not extortion. It's not lore-butchering. It's been going on since the first time a book was changed slightly. That would date it at least back to the religious texts such as the Bible and the Qur'an.

Maxster_ wrote...
It is irrelevant, that is good(for someone) addition to a game.
If leviathans are canon - where are they in my game? They made shortened version of ME3 for Russia?
Why should something that is not part of the work of fiction, be considered a canon for said fiction?
Like Lord of the Rings movies, you are saying that because of those movies, Tom Bombadil never existed in books "Lord of the Ring" by Tolkien? Dafuq?
It is nonsense.

Your version is out of date. Just like the first edition of Halo: Fall of Reach. Or the theatrical release of "The Return of the King".

Difference in the LOTR example. The books and the films do not co-exist. Jackson's films are technically in a different universe to Tolkein's books. That's why there are differences, yet these are not truly retcons, and why characters are omitted.

[Maxster_]

Jamie9 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
So, i finally got an answer. Well, sort of.
First, you know that Hobbit is a finished book? It was never released as a film by an author(Tolkien), and never intended to. So it is irrelevant.
My parents bought me "hobbit" when i was in school(20 or something years ago). It was finished.
I also read Lord of the Rings. And also saw films. Please point me, where i can see Tom Bombadil(which are canon), in those movies.
Movies is whole other type of fiction.

ME series is a games made by Bioware(some time later Bioware became EAWare).
ME1 is a game. I bought it, and saw Vigil conversation with my Shepard.
ME2 is a game.
ME3 is a game. I bought it and never saw any "leviathans".

And no, my buisiness with EAWare is forever over. I despise them, and won't spend another rouble on their lore-butchering nonsense.

Yep. Published waaaay back in 1937, I believe (I could confirm it through wikipedia but never mind ).

Movies are certainly a different type of fiction, but the way canon works can apply the same to novels, movies and games.

Novels have 2nd editions. These include revised scenes, added scenes. All of it is canon, supercedes 1st edition.

Movies have director's cuts. These include revised scenes, added scenes. All of it is canon, supercedes theatrical release.

Games have GOTY editions. These include revised scenes, added scenes. All of it is canon, supercedes original release.

It's not extortion. It's not lore-butchering. It's been going on since the first time a book was changed slightly. That would date it at least back to the religious texts such as the Bible and the Qur'an.

Really?
You do realise that the term "canon" is not something that depends only and entirely on authors?
You know, that there is some groups(and very large ones) that refusing to accept even slightest changes like re-released Star Wars, which by the way, haven't rewrtitten completely their lore and changed major revelations and plot points?. Or more major changes, like prequels, which is hated exactly for that, and by very large groups of former fans?
So what ending canon for Evangelion anime? Old or new?
Not that i like that anime at all, just noticed flaming exchanges about it.

Maxster_ wrote...
It is irrelevant, that is good(for someone) addition to a game.
If leviathans are canon - where are they in my game? They made shortened version of ME3 for Russia?
Why should something that is not part of the work of fiction, be considered a canon for said fiction?
Like Lord of the Rings movies, you are saying that because of those movies, Tom Bombadil never existed in books "Lord of the Ring" by Tolkien? Dafuq?
It is nonsense.

Your version is out of date. Just like the first edition of Halo: Fall of Reach. Or the theatrical release of "The Return of the King".

Difference in the LOTR example. The books and the films do not co-exist. Jackson's films are technically in a different universe to Tolkein's books. That's why there are differences, yet these are not truly retcons, and why characters are omitted.

Why you brought Hobbit as example then? You know that it is irrelevant, and still brought it up?

If that said "leviathans" was part of the game ME3, that i bought on march 6 2012, from the start - they would be part of canon. Because they would be a part of finished work of fiction.
But they are never were in a part of the game that i bought. Mass effect series - games.
They are not part of released game, then they are not canon. You can not use something that is not part of some work of fiction, as a evidence, that retcons evidence from other part of that work of fiction, and saying your version of headcanon is a canon for everyone.

Because otherwise, you should tell me where i can find some mysterious leviathans in a game, that i bought on 6 march 2012.

If you can not help me found said leviathans in the finished and complete game, that i bought, then admit that it is not canon.

Or you are saying that EAWare deliberately sold incomplete game? And they should be punished for false advertising first, and some other things later, by US/Canadian law? You couldn't say that, could you? Or..

Modifié par Maxster_, 07 octobre 2012 - 05:56 .

[Jamie9]

Maxster_ wrote...
Or you are saying that EAWare deliberately sold incomplete game? And they should be punished for false advertising first, and some other things later, by US/Canadian law? You couldn't say that, could you? Or..

I would say almost every single AAA release title contains lies in their PR. Almost every single one.

I don't remember the last time a publisher was actually prosecuted for this, though. Good luck trying.

It depends on your defnition of "incomplete". Did we get everything made prior to March 6? Sort of. "From Ashes" was omitted, so yes, BioWare sold an incomplete game for $60. I'm not going to dodge that. I'm not some raving fanboy.

BioWare has done both bad and good things. Like almost every company above a certain size. Anyway, I am definitely done here. It's 7AM, and I haven't actually gone to get some sleep yet. I should.

I have many more points to back up my arguments, but I'm going to agree to disagree, for the sake of my poor body.

[Xilizhra]

Or you are saying that EAWare deliberately sold incomplete game? And they should be punished for false advertising first, and some other things later, by US/Canadian law? You couldn't say that, could you? Or..

Yes, the game was incomplete. No, it wouldn't count as false advertising unless they said "the game as-is contains all of the plot points that will ever be relevant to this game, now and forever" or something. The default state for a game nowadays is incomplete, now that DLC has become common.

[David7204]

I see we're whining about DLC here.

Let me just go ahead and say the storytelling structure of DLC is inherent to videogames as a medium. All DLC introduces new content.

[Maxster_]

Jamie9 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
Or you are saying that EAWare deliberately sold incomplete game? And they should be punished for false advertising first, and some other things later, by US/Canadian law? You couldn't say that, could you? Or..

I would say almost every single AAA release title contains lies in their PR. Almost every single one.

I don't remember the last time a publisher was actually prosecuted for this, though. Good luck trying.

Why i should even care now? I live in Russia, we have different laws, and a lot less consumer right's defense organizations, and lot less restricting laws on false advertising. Second Mavrodi's financial pyramide is a perfect example of that. It is even has advertisements on tv. Try to get something from him in courts. Lol.

It depends on your defnition of "incomplete". Did we get everything made prior to March 6? Sort of. "From Ashes" was omitted, so yes, BioWare sold an incomplete game for $60. I'm not going to dodge that. I'm not some raving fanboy.

BioWare has done both bad and good things. Like almost every company above a certain size. Anyway, I am definitely done here. It's 7AM, and I haven't actually gone to get some sleep yet. I should.

I have many more points to back up my arguments, but I'm going to agree to disagree, for the sake of my poor body.

Those discussions will never end, you know. You know that i'm not a lone person, who thinks that way.
So, fanbase already divided, go ask HTL guys about "leviathan canon". 
Good "night"(7 am is not exactly night) 

Modifié par Maxster_, 07 octobre 2012 - 06:25 .

[Maxster_]

David7204 wrote...

I see we're whining about DLC here.

Let me just go ahead and say the storytelling structure of DLC is inherent to videogames as a medium. All DLC introduces new content.

Please point me to a "DLC" for Star Control 2.

Modifié par Maxster_, 07 octobre 2012 - 06:19 .

[Maxster_]

Xilizhra wrote...

Or you are saying that EAWare deliberately sold incomplete game? And they should be punished for false advertising first, and some other things later, by US/Canadian law? You couldn't say that, could you? Or..

Yes, the game was incomplete. No, it wouldn't count as false advertising unless they said "the game as-is contains all of the plot points that will ever be relevant to this game, now and forever" or something. The default state for a game nowadays is incomplete, now that DLC has become common.

Exactly because of that they got away with all that they done. Well, destroyed core fanbase in the process.
And it is exactly why everyone have every to say that any paid DLC(or even free) is not canon. And that person will be right.

[David7204]

If you think developers shouldn't expand their product, fine. You're free to not spend your money on such games. But frankly, given that you spend so much time on the forums of a game you don't like, I don't see you being that smart with money.

[CronoDragoon]

Maxster_ wrote...

Exactly because of that they got away with all that they done.

Exactly because of what they got away with what? Are you suggesting the structure of DLC was the cause of the endings? Because it wasn't.

Well, destroyed core fanbase in the process.

Doubtful.

And it is exactly why everyone have every to say that any paid DLC(or even free) is not canon. And that person will be right.

No, they'll be wrong. DLC is is as canon as anything that happened in ME3, unless stated otherwise.

[Maxster_]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Exactly because of that they got away with all that they done.

Exactly because of what they got away with what? Are you suggesting the structure of DLC was the cause of the endings? Because it wasn't.

Well, destroyed core fanbase in the process.

Doubtful.

And it is exactly why everyone have every to say that any paid DLC(or even free) is not canon. And that person will be right.

No, they'll be wrong. DLC is is as canon as anything that happened in ME3, unless stated otherwise.

If it is canon for ME3, then please tell me, why i can't find leviathans in my game ME3, which i bought on 6 march 2012.
Where are leviathans in ME3? You are saying that they are canon for a game ME3, but i can't find them in my game ME3, which i bought on 6 march 2012.
ME1 is a game. I've bought it in 2008, and i got to Ilos, where my Shepard had conversation with Vigil. Vigil is therefore canon.
ME3 is a game. I've never saw any leviathans in that game. If they are canon, they should be in game.
Where are leviathans in ME3?

[CronoDragoon]

Maxster_ wrote...
Where are leviathans in ME3?

They are currently in ME3. If you didn't buy Leviathan that just means you didn't pay for the full product. Adding something later doesn't mean it isn't canon. The Answer is canon for Persona 3, for example, and the EC is canon for ME3 along with Leviathan.

[Maxster_]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
Where are leviathans in ME3?

They are currently in ME3. If you didn't buy Leviathan that just means you didn't pay for the full product. Adding something later doesn't mean it isn't canon. The Answer is canon for Persona 3, for example, and the EC is canon for ME3 along with Leviathan.

I paid full price for ME3 in march.
I've never seen any leviathans in that game.
You saying that something that not a part of some work of fiction, should retcon somethings that is? It is nonsense, as i've said already.
If they are canon - then they should be in game. Like Vigil, who is "retconned" by them.
I've never saw any leviathans in game ME3. For me, saying that they are part of the lore - is not an argument. It have no weight, zero, null.

I never saw any Chiss in 4-5-6 episodes. Thrawn's trilogy is not a part of movies. You are saying that Thrawn was in movies, for example? Or any chiss?

Modifié par Maxster_, 07 octobre 2012 - 07:17 .

[Maxster_]

DirtyMouthSally wrote...

Other media other than the base game, including DLC, novels, comics, and I suppose even Twitter (unfortunately), are all involved in establishing events in the ME series.  As far as I'm aware, they're established canon, and none of it is in the base retail games. 

It's too early to say that the Leviathans are canon, I guess, but all it would take is one post ME3 novel, comic, game, etc., to reference these events.

Well, when they will be canonized in sequels, if those sequels will ever be released, which i really doubt - then leviathans will became canon, therefore part of the lore. But i will not be a part of that. Mass Effect is dead.
As for now, they are not part of the lore, and discussing them in context of the ending is pointless.

[David7204]

Is there any particular reason why events in DLC aren't canon other than some people not liking DLC?

[CronoDragoon]

Maxster_ wrote...
I paid full price for ME3 in march.
I've never seen any leviathans in that game.

You paid full price for the base ME3. The game released in March was never claimed to be the definitive ME3 story. If you want to bury your head in the sand, I can't stop you. But Leviathan is as much a part of the story as an epilogue chapter to a manga is.

You saying that something that not a part of some work of fiction, should retcon somethings that is? It is nonsense, as i've said already.

Are you claiming that only the first volume of a comic book is canon and everything released after isn't?

If they are canon - then they should be in game. Like Vigil, who is "retconned" by them.

They are in the game. They aren't in your game because you've chosen not to have the full version of Mass Effect 3.
 

I've never saw any leviathans in game ME3. For me, saying that they are part of the lore - is not an argument. It have no weight, zero, null.

Of course not, for you. But you're in a different category of people, labeled "people who do not have the full ME3 story."

I never saw any Chiss in 4-5-6 episodes. Thrawn's trilogy is not a part of movies. You are saying that Thrawn was in movies, for example? Or any chiss?

I don't know what you're talking about. Could you explain your example more?

[Maxster_]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
I paid full price for ME3 in march.
I've never seen any leviathans in that game.

You paid full price for the base ME3. The game released in March was never claimed to be the definitive ME3 story. If you want to bury your head in the sand, I can't stop you. But Leviathan is as much a part of the story as an epilogue chapter to a manga is.

There is no leviathans in ME3. They are not part of anything, there is no converations with them, not even a trace.
There is Vigil in ME1. There is conversation with Vigil, when your Shepard is on Ilos. He is canon.
If you are saying, that they are canon, then tell me how can i see them in my ME3 which i bought. They are seriously changing the lore, retconning critical part of game lore for prequel(ME1).
But i can't find them in my game ME3. Why something that i cannot see in game that i bought, thus in no way part of the game, thus in no way part of the ME lore - retconning said part of the lore? It is nonsense, and you know that.

You saying that something that not a part of some work of fiction, should retcon somethings that is? It is nonsense, as i've said already.

Are you claiming that only the first volume of a comic book is canon and everything released after isn't?

Point me please, where i can buy ME4. You've implied that it released, i want at least to see advertisement.
The next chapter, you know.

If they are canon - then they should be in game. Like Vigil, who is "retconned" by them.

They are in the game. They aren't in your game because you've chosen not to have the full version of Mass Effect 3.
 

What? You are saying that i chose not a full game on 6 march? Dafuq? I bought full game, as everyone else. There was no leviathans in march, no one even mentioned something like that on internets. Especially about conversation with said leviathans.
If they are in full game that i bought - they are, of course, part of the lore, and canon.
But i can't find them in full game ME3 that i bought. I never chosen some shorted version of a game, i bought a full game.

I've never saw any leviathans in game ME3. For me, saying that they are part of the lore - is not an argument. It have no weight, zero, null.

Of course not, for you. But you're in a different category of people, labeled "people who do not have the full ME3 story."

Okay. So you admit, that it is not canon for everyone at least.
You do understand, that when you discussing something like ending ME3, you can not use arguments, retcons and lore rewrite from some lousy DLC, which was never part of the sold game. Or don't?

I never saw any Chiss in 4-5-6 episodes. Thrawn's trilogy is not a part of movies. You are saying that Thrawn was in movies, for example? Or any chiss?

I don't know what you're talking about. Could you explain your example more?

Star Wars, Expanded Universe.
http://en.wikipedia..../Thrawn_trilogy

[Dysjong]

No, i don't think it's unfair.

Nothing will change the ending? Okay, so there is no difference if i shot Wrex and letting Wreav be in charge without any females to oppose him?

"Oh no, nothing will change no matter what i did or who i saved" wrong!
It does matter, the NPC is what changes the ending, stop that munchkin thinking. Sure im getting 4 different endings but it all comes down to what i choice and why i did it.

I had a talk with one of my friends about this. Both him and i took synthesis, because we felt it was the right choice. The difference was that he didnt cure the genophage, where i did. He had killede Wrex in the first game (i didnt), he wouldnt let Wreav get that chance in fear of a second krogan rebellion. If thats not a change in the ending... Well then people are stocked in there way of thinking.