543 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

silentassassin264 wrote...

No. Synthesis was incredibly Paragon. Sacrifice yourself, save everyone and make life for everyone better. Paragon Control is also obviously Paragon. Paragon Shepard gets to become the guardian of the galaxy a be a selfless protector forever.

Make life better for everyone?

You do not get to determine what makes my life better for me or anyone else.

You then do not get to force it upon me without my knowledge or consent.

Synthesis is an abomination and makes Shepard as bad as the Reapers.

[squee365]

Its more fair than the upcoming election, thats for sure.

[AlanC9]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

grey_wind wrote...
He shuts the Crucible down if you refuse his options.

So you refuse to use the Crucible and he.... doesn't let you use the Crucible?

That means, that not only reapers created interface and functionality for crucible from the beginning, also they designed crucible and have full control over it.

There is no evidence that the Catalyst shut off the Crucible.

I'm sure he'll come up with something.

[Maxster_]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

He shuts the Crucible down if you refuse his options.

So you refuse to use the Crucible and he.... doesn't let you use the Crucible?

That means, that not only reapers created interface and functionality for crucible from the beginning, also they designed crucible and have full control over it.

There is no evidence that the Catalyst shut off the Crucible.

Really?

[What a Succulent Ass]

Festae9 wrote...

That's nasty, son.

[MegaSovereign]

Maxster_ wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

He shuts the Crucible down if you refuse his options.

So you refuse to use the Crucible and he.... doesn't let you use the Crucible?

That means, that not only reapers created interface and functionality for crucible from the beginning, also they designed crucible and have full control over it.

There is no evidence that the Catalyst shut off the Crucible.

Really?

Yea, you're making an assumption that the Catalyst leaving and the Crucible shutting off are one in the same.

We already knew that we only had a limited time frame to use the Crucible. The fact that it shut off after the Catalyst left is not surprising.

EDIT:

Also. Just think about it. Even if he had that ability why would the Catalyst shut off the Crucible? He wants a new solution set in place. Why not send up an indoctrinated pawn to activate it for him?

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 04 octobre 2012 - 03:17 .

[LucasShark]

I'd say it is: because every single option is horrid.

[Hey]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Festae9 wrote...

That's nasty, son.

gag flex.  i feel good now tho... 

[Maxster_]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

He shuts the Crucible down if you refuse his options.

So you refuse to use the Crucible and he.... doesn't let you use the Crucible?

That means, that not only reapers created interface and functionality for crucible from the beginning, also they designed crucible and have full control over it.

There is no evidence that the Catalyst shut off the Crucible.

Really?

Yea, you're making an assumption that the Catalyst leaving and the Crucible shutting off are one in the same.

We already knew that we only had a limited time frame to use the Crucible. The fact that it shut off after the Catalyst left is not surprising.

And of course, you can prove that? Especially knowing that all functionality and interface for the crucible is built by the reapers?

[Maxster_]

EDIT:

Also. Just think about it. Even if he had that ability why would the Catalyst shut off the Crucible? He wants a new solution set in place. Why not send up an indoctrinated pawn to activate it for him?

Well, that means, that catalyst offered "victory" to Shepard, which he could do anytime, at any cycle. He just decides that Shepard deserves "victory".
What Shepard did is completely irrelevant.

[MegaSovereign]

And of course, you can prove that? Especially knowing that all functionality and interface for the crucible is built by the reapers?

The burden of proof is not on my shoulders. You're the one making a claim.

I'll play along. The Catalyst needs a new solution set in place. If the Catalyst didn't have a limited time frame, he would have sent up an indoctrinated victim to activate the Crucible for him. Shutting it off is counter-productive to his goal and is therefore out of the question.

The Crucible shutting off had to be a variable that he had no control over.

[movieguyabw]

MegaSovereign wrote...


We already knew that we only had a limited time frame to use the Crucible. The fact that it shut off after the Catalyst left is not surprising.

EDIT:

Also. Just think about it. Even if he had that ability why would the Catalyst shut off the Crucible? He wants a new solution set in place. Why not send up an indoctrinated pawn to activate it for him?

If we fail the mission by taking too long to decide (can happen)  the beam doesn't shut off.


As to your second question:  because Starchild isn't exactly the brightest AI.  I thought this was represented well with the Yo Dawg meme; in regards to his plan to save Organics from being wiped out by synthetics. 

[grey_wind]

AlanC9 wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

He shuts the Crucible down if you refuse his options.

So you refuse to use the Crucible and he.... doesn't let you use the Crucible?

No, I'm refuting your point that he cannot control the Crucible. If he has the ability to turn the damn thing off, it stands to reason that he may be able to control it in other ways as well.

[Maxster_]

MegaSovereign wrote...

And of course, you can prove that? Especially knowing that all functionality and interface for the crucible is built by the reapers?

The burden of proof is not on my shoulders. You're the one making a claim.

I already provided proof with ingame video, that clearly shows, that crucible was immediately turned off, when catalyst get mad. Also, same happening after speech. You have provided nothing, but assumption.

I'll play along. The Catalyst needs a new solution set in place. If the Catalyst didn't have a limited time frame, he would have sent up an indoctrinated victim to activate the Crucible for him. Shutting it off is counter-productive to his goal and is therefore out of the question.

The Crucible shutting off had to be a variable that he had no control over.

That means, that "victory" was made possible by Catalyst only. It is completely his decision after allied fleets suffered crushing defeat. And if Shepard refuses to unconditionally surrender to a whim of a obvious crazy genocidal entity - Catalyst enrages and cancels his plans for that cycle.

[Maxster_]

movieguyabw wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...


We already knew that we only had a limited time frame to use the Crucible. The fact that it shut off after the Catalyst left is not surprising.

EDIT:

Also. Just think about it. Even if he had that ability why would the Catalyst shut off the Crucible? He wants a new solution set in place. Why not send up an indoctrinated pawn to activate it for him?

If we fail the mission by taking too long to decide (can happen)  the beam doesn't shut off.


As to your second question:  because Starchild isn't exactly the brightest AI.  I thought this was represented well with the Yo Dawg meme; in regards to his plan to save Organics from being wiped out by synthetics. 

Also, this.

[silentassassin264]

Getorex wrote...

tvman099 wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

No. Synthesis was incredibly Paragon. Sacrifice yourself, save everyone and make life for everyone better. Paragon Control is also obviously Paragon. Paragon Shepard gets to become the guardian of the galaxy a be a selfless protector forever.

Considering yourself qualified enough to make a judgment that results in a total alteration to the fundamental existence of all living things in the galaxy without caring whether or not they desire that kind of change, and assuming that it will be "better for everyone" is megalomaniacal, not paragon.

Pretty much this.  Perfectly and concisely stated. 

Perfectly and stupidly stated.  Everyone joined up with you in the final assault to use the crucible.  They did not know what it did exactly, only that it would stop the Reapers, and they all were fine with that plan.  Pre-space flight species did not have a vote but they were outnumbered anyway.  The vast majority of galaxy was prepared to use the crucible and live with the consequences, including synthesis.  Your false modesty is ridiculous.  You had no problem determining the fate of the Krogan, the Geth, the Quarians, or forcing everyone in the galaxy to fight under your banner or be left to be destroyed but all of a sudden you have a moral issue because you were given the go ahead to rewrite life and you just didn't like the option because you feel it is surrendering to the Reapers so you make up a bunch of stupid childish outrage. 

[Maxster_]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Perfectly and stupidly stated.  Everyone joined up with you in the final assault to use the crucible.  They did not know what it did exactly, only that it would stop the Reapers, and they all were fine with that plan.  Pre-space flight species did not have a vote but they were outnumbered anyway.  The vast majority of galaxy was prepared to use the crucible and live with the consequences, including synthesis. 
...

Great totalitarian attitude. I like that
Keep it up, that reminds me of putin's bootlickers so much

Modifié par Maxster_, 04 octobre 2012 - 03:41 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

Well, have you guys seen this critical mission failure?

Random Jerkface wrote...

THE ENDING IS UNFAIR TO PEOPLE WHO ARE INCLINED TOWARD LOGIC

/STIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

And I don't contest this one bit. However, catharsis doesn't necessarily have to have logic, but ME3 fails to even deliver that.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 04 octobre 2012 - 03:49 .

[silentassassin264]

Maxster_ wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Perfectly and stupidly stated.  Everyone joined up with you in the final assault to use the crucible.  They did not know what it did exactly, only that it would stop the Reapers, and they all were fine with that plan.  Pre-space flight species did not have a vote but they were outnumbered anyway.  The vast majority of galaxy was prepared to use the crucible and live with the consequences, including synthesis. 
...

Great totalitarian attitude. I like that
Keep it up, that reminds me of putin's bootlickers so much

Hmm, someone who doesn't know the meaning of democracy.  Now guess how much I value your opinion.

[The Twilight God]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

You didn't use genocide right. In Control and Synthesis nobody but Shepard dies, in Destroy synthetic life dies, and in Refuse everyone dies.

There is no indication that synthetic life dies. The only thing we see is reaper tech (synthesized parts) destroyed. Neither Hackett nor the Kid's comments mentions anything about the Crucible killing all synthetics. This is a mentality carried over from the original endings, but it was changed by Bioware.

Synthesis: Everyone is indoctrinated with reaper nanites. Harvest continues. The reason I say sorta is because the indoctrinated will willingly become reapers so it's not technically genocide. Does mass suicde count as genocide? Indoctrinated or not it's still their choice. EDI talking about transcending mortality and achiving an existence beyond what she can imagine. I'm sure they'll all be just like Soveriegn in a brave new level of existence. Synthesis is pretty much spelling out becoming a reaper. The cut dialog from ME2 actually says that that's how synthetics understand organics.

Control: Shepard is absorbed into reaper collectove. Harvest continues. I know for a fact that Shepard wouldn;t be saying "Immortal.Infinite. Eternal" if the AI was in it's right mind. He's personally proved that notice indocrrect 4 times, knows 3 other instances of this notion being proven wrong and stood on the cusp of ending them all. He's a brainwahsed as Soveriegn. Shep is like TIM. Thinking he's in control. Talking about what he "will do". But he can't.

Refuse: Shepard knowingly allows Reapers to kill everyone. Greatest betrayal in galactic history.

Refuse: Unless you've got a soft spot for the Reapers and consider that genocide.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 04 octobre 2012 - 03:54 .

[Iakus]

The endings are just plain unfair. Nothing paragon or renegade about it

[The Twilight God]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The burden of proof is not on my shoulders. You're the one making a claim.

I'll play along. The Catalyst needs a new solution set in place. If the Catalyst didn't have a limited time frame, he would have sent up an indoctrinated victim to activate the Crucible for him. Shutting it off is counter-productive to his goal and is therefore out of the question.

The Crucible shutting off had to be a variable that he had no control over.

The beam is not a product of the Crucible. It's a product of the Citadel and is shut of when Destroy starts (no power since you destroy the power conduit).

Part I: Destroy Analysis

Here is my deductive process:

1. The Crucible docks, but is not doing anything noticeable.
2. The power conduit is eliminated violently.
3. The Crucible arms itself and fires.
4. It is thus deduced that something was preventing the Crucible from firing while the power conduit remained intact and functional.
5. The destruction of the power conduit terminated whatever condition existed that prevented the Crucible from arming.
6. The power conduit was either itself, or was powering, something that prevented the Crucible from firing. This would be the "Crucible Suppression Device" I mentioned earlier.
7. In the absence of this suppressing condition the Crucible initiates the destruction of the Reapers without any direct input from Shepard or any action that could be construed as normal usage of the contraption beneath it.
8. Conclusion #1: The Crucible's default function is to destroy reaper technology.
9. It has been confirmed in the very opening of this segment that the contraption at eye level is NOT a part of the Crucible.
10. Upon the destruction of the power conduit the beam running down the center of the Citadel chasm deactivates.
11. It can therefore be deduced that the power conduit was either itself, or was powering, whatever it is that was generating the beam running down the Citadel chasm.
12. The Crucible arms itself, sends a pulse into the Citadel and fires despite the absence of this beam.
13. In both Control and Synthesis the beam remains active as the Crucible's tip ignites.
14. Conclusion #2: The beam is not a function of the Crucible itself.

The Crucible is still active. You can see the tip is still glowing and the four beams are still active and converging on it.

[Maxster_]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Perfectly and stupidly stated.  Everyone joined up with you in the final assault to use the crucible.  They did not know what it did exactly, only that it would stop the Reapers, and they all were fine with that plan.  Pre-space flight species did not have a vote but they were outnumbered anyway.  The vast majority of galaxy was prepared to use the crucible and live with the consequences, including synthesis. 
...

Great totalitarian attitude. I like that
Keep it up, that reminds me of putin's bootlickers so much

Hmm, someone who doesn't know the meaning of democracy.  Now guess how much I value your opinion.

LOL.
That was authoritharian decision(which he enforced on everyone, used intruments, provided by catalyst) by shepard, there was no referendum. Shepard was never elected to be a president of th galaxy. So don't tell me that crap(=synthesis) was approved by majority.
Also, minorities have rights, you know. If minority must completely obey majority decision, than we get bolsheviks(democratic centralism).
So much for "democracy expert"

Modifié par Maxster_, 04 octobre 2012 - 03:57 .

[silentassassin264]

Maxster_ wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Perfectly and stupidly stated.  Everyone joined up with you in the final assault to use the crucible.  They did not know what it did exactly, only that it would stop the Reapers, and they all were fine with that plan.  Pre-space flight species did not have a vote but they were outnumbered anyway.  The vast majority of galaxy was prepared to use the crucible and live with the consequences, including synthesis. 
...

Great totalitarian attitude. I like that
Keep it up, that reminds me of putin's bootlickers so much

Hmm, someone who doesn't know the meaning of democracy.  Now guess how much I value your opinion.

LOL.
That authoritharian decision by shepard, there was no referendum. Shepard was never elected to be a president of th galaxy. So don't tell me that crap(=synthesis) was approved by majority.
Also, minorities have rights, you know. If minority must completely obey majority decision, than we get bolsheviks(democratic centralism).
So much for "democracy expert"

Let me educate you since you seem to have failed any civics or government class you have taken.  In a Democratic Republic like the United States, all of the electorate vote on someone to lead, like the President, or in ME3 case, Shepard.  Everyone willingly joined under your command and was willing to live with your plans and decisions.  That is democracy in action.  If you don't agree with President Obama, it doesn't matter because the majority voted him in the lead so he is the leader.  It is not totalitarianism because you do not like what he did.  

Point 2.  In North Carolina they had a Constitution Amendment vote defining Marriage as between a man and a woman to ban gays from being able to get married.  The majority passed that amendment which cut off rights for a minority.  It was completely democratic and it completely effed over the minority but you still have to live with the decision as a minority.  

This is the reality of how government works not your insane idealism that means everyone must agree for it to be right.  You also a flagrantly ignoring that everyone joined under Shepard to use the Crucible when the game explicitly says it so you can make a completely erroneous argument.  Please take some classes on Government or just simply look at the news because your ignorance is staggering.

[Shepard108278]

Personally control and synthesis are for my Paragon and destroy always for my renegades.