352 réponses à ce sujet

[ShadowLordXII]

Ever since Fox's report on ME 1, Bioware seems to have a double standard on what's okay in an M-rated game.

So far: murder; blood; exploding bodies; decapitation; drug use; political undertones/overtones; implications of rape; torture; prostitution; cussing; near-naked demons and horridly nude Broodmothers are okay for an M rated game.

But people being naked in a shower or naked while making love is...bad?

I'm not talking about turning future love scenes into short porn films, I'm talking about not being so conscious in this area when the game is already rated M and there's stuff in these games that's much worse than a little skin.

I mean really? What's worse for a player's psychology? A 3d elf who strips out of her tube top and engages in a 20 second love scene with the player character or being whipped by the tentacle of a broodmother while she grabs your companion and bites off his head?

Just a little consistency is all I want from DA3.

[Chiramu]

You have to think of the poor developers of the game as well. Imagine you're a developer of a serious video game, how would you feel about putting sex into said serious game, it's not a Japanese porn game either.

Personally I feel the "sex" scenes make me downright uncomfortable. I feel like a third wheel in the corner of the room just watching two people doing something incredibly intimate with each other.

Modifié par Chiramu, 04 octobre 2012 - 05:40 .

[Zubie]

Chiramu wrote...
 I feel like a third wheel in the corner of the room just watching two people doing something incredibly intimate with each other.

Do you feel that way when watching a sex scene in a movie?

I don't really care either way. The time and resources they could spend on sex scene with full nudity would be better spent elsewhere. Not to mention the awkward animations would just make it look wierd.

Modifié par easygame88, 04 octobre 2012 - 05:45 .

[Iakus]

To be honest I could do with fewer exploding bodies, decapitations, and fountains of blood myself. I turn persistent gore off first chance I get. Sometimes it just gets to a point where it's gone full circle around "mature" and has come back to "catoonish"

And to me, nudity is pretty much the least important aspect of a love scene for me. What's important is two people finding each other in turbulent times. The maturity comes from things like the implications of a human and elf falling in love, or characters from different social stations. Or just the danger of the situations they find themselves in.

What's important is the story being told, not the biology lesson being shown..

[daaaav]

I think the point is not that we NEED nudity for a "mature" story but that a "mature" story should treat nudity maturely.

By that I mean it should be treated without kiddy gloves and ridiculous coverups.It should just be a part of the fabric of the story, the same as everything else.

I'm tired of being told that violence is mature, but nudity is for frat boys...

[DarthLaxian]

indeed (i agree that it is not needed, but it should be there, if there is gore, decapitation, mutilation, attempted rape, real rape etc.)

greetings LAX
ps: everything else is inconsistent (at least for me as a european (german to be exact) without the prudish US-Notions that sex is bad, but gore is ok...ok for children even, but sex is still bad for adults *shakes his head*)

Modifié par DarthLaxian, 04 octobre 2012 - 06:38 .

[AlienWolf728]

daaaav wrote...

I think the point is not that we NEED nudity for a "mature" story but that a "mature" story should treat nudity maturely.

By that I mean it should be treated without kiddy gloves and ridiculous coverups.It should just be a part of the fabric of the story, the same as everything else.

I'm tired of being told that violence is mature, but nudity is for frat boys...

[Windninja47]

I think they should do it so that the characters are nude in sex scenes but that you still don't see anything. Just so that you don't have these two people doing all this kinky stuff still in their underwear.

[TK514]

I agree, particularly when you have the outright absurd 'showering with clothes on' scene from ME 3 as an example. I'm not expecting, nor would I want, a Witcher 2 full on scene, but something scripted and executed as well as a similar scene in a tasteful feature film would be fine.

[aesir05]

I'd say get rid of the standard sex scenes and show a tent from the outside and only dialog
something along the lines of "have you even done this before?"
"nonoononono thats not the way"

or "not what i was expecting"

u know, funny stuff and not the sad romantic song and companion takes pc to bed near the camp fire for all other party people to look and see

put more seriousness in the game, cept for the sex scenes, dont make em serious plzzzzzzzzzz

[Wolfspawn]

The scenes need to be one of three things:

A. Implied only (Jade Empire)
B. Tastefully censored (Mass Effect)
or C. Realistically show the before and after (Mass Effect 2)

I would prefer if they weren't like previous Dragon Age games or Mass Effect 3, where they either show unrealistic scenes of people kissing in their underwear or show them waking up next to each other either fully clothed or in their underwear.

[hussey 92]

AlienWolf728 wrote...

daaaav wrote...

I think the point is not that we NEED nudity for a "mature" story but that a "mature" story should treat nudity maturely.

By that I mean it should be treated without kiddy gloves and ridiculous coverups.It should just be a part of the fabric of the story, the same as everything else.

I'm tired of being told that violence is mature, but nudity is for frat boys...

[daaaav]

aesir05 wrote...

I'd say get rid of the standard sex scenes and show a tent from the outside and only dialog
something along the lines of "have you even done this before?"
"nonoononono thats not the way"

or "not what i was expecting"

u know, funny stuff and not the sad romantic song and companion takes pc to bed near the camp fire for all other party people to look and see

put more seriousness in the game, cept for the sex scenes, dont make em serious plzzzzzzzzzz

Levity and humor is a wonderful thing but once again, why treat sex and sexuality different to any other story telling and characterisation device? It's like a bunch of school kids giggling uncontrollably when one of them blurts out a dirty word...

Stop treating it as a creepy mini game for the cheetoh brigade to write their romance guides about and instead use it to enrich the authenticity of your story.

[Allan Schumacher]

I think the point is not that we NEED nudity for a "mature" story but that a "mature" story should treat nudity maturely.

By that I mean it should be treated without kiddy gloves and ridiculous coverups.It should just be a part of the fabric of the story, the same as everything else.

Are you okay with an interpretation of this that means there's no nudity at all, as long as it isn't exempt in a hamfisted and unnecessary way?

For example, is deciding to do fade to blacks as a way to depict the scenes something that makes a scene less mature?

[Urzon]

The only reason Bioware might have a double standard when it comes to the M rating, is because the US as a whole seems to have one with gaming.

Any type of nudity= corruptor of the youth.

Blowing someone's head off because they disagree with you= A.O.K.

[daaaav]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think the point is not that we NEED nudity for a "mature" story but that a "mature" story should treat nudity maturely.

By that I mean it should be treated without kiddy gloves and ridiculous coverups.It should just be a part of the fabric of the story, the same as everything else.

Are you okay with an interpretation of this that means there's no nudity at all, as long as it isn't exempt in a hamfisted and unnecessary way?

For example, is deciding to do fade to blacks as a way to depict the scenes something that makes a scene less mature?

Well, That depends on the setting and the characters more than my personal preferences.

The game is rated for adults and should therefore be free to use whatever it can to craft it's world. Dragon Age feels more Game of Thrones than Robin Hood and I am fine with that.

To put it another way, from what we know of Orlais, it would feel strange if the Orlaisians had a more conservative attitude towards sexuality than Americans (or Canadians)...

Modifié par daaaav, 04 octobre 2012 - 08:00 .

[nightcobra]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think the point is not that we NEED nudity for a "mature" story but that a "mature" story should treat nudity maturely.

By that I mean it should be treated without kiddy gloves and ridiculous coverups.It should just be a part of the fabric of the story, the same as everything else.

Are you okay with an interpretation of this that means there's no nudity at all, as long as it isn't exempt in a hamfisted and unnecessary way?

For example, is deciding to do fade to blacks as a way to depict the scenes something that makes a scene less mature?

by the same note, one could also fade to black whenever combat occurs.
is it handling violence maturely? maybe, but it sure makes the game less engaging. maybe that's just me.

[Allan Schumacher]

I don't think the analogy fits, however.

Unless you'd like to see some sort of gameplay elements during the intimate scenes (which is when your rating does start to shift to AO. For an example see the game Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy), you're suggesting an alternative that limits gameplay.

Though you mention that it makes the game less engaging. Do you feel nudity in a scene makes it more engaging?

[Wittand25]

I am fine with no nudity, but it is jarring if you have stupid semi-nudity in game.
With semi-nudity I mean stuff like showering in underwear or the sex scenes in DA:O during which you could see the underwear.

Now the best way would be using camera angles that make both clear that the characters are nude, but avoid showing anything that would push the game to an AO rating .
Second best is dialogue->kiss->harmless undressing->fade to black->waking up in underwear->more dialogue
Third best would be leaving the whole thing to the imagination of the player.

[Plaintiff]

It's not Bioware's double standard, Blame Western society.

I think DA2's "fade to black" had far more to do with technological limitations than any sort of self-censorship. Let's face it, DA:O's "sex scene", if it can even be called that, was flat-out bad. If "prudishness" means I'm spared the spectacle of poorly-rendered models pawing and rubbing on each other clumsily, then that's fine by me.

The ESRB system indicates the expected maturity level of the audience, not the product.

[daaaav]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I don't think the analogy fits, however.

Unless you'd like to see some sort of gameplay elements during the intimate scenes (which is when your rating does start to shift to AO. For an example see the game Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy), you're suggesting an alternative that limits gameplay.

Though you mention that it makes the game less engaging. Do you feel nudity in a scene makes it more engaging?

It can feel authentic, both in characterisation and setting. Go for a walk around a classical city such as Rome or Athens and you will see nudity in their art. If two lovers are sharing an intimate moment they would not be wearing heavy plate and if you walked into a brothel in the shady part of town, the barmen would be topless.  

[Direwolf0294]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think the point is not that we NEED nudity for a "mature" story but that a "mature" story should treat nudity maturely.

By that I mean it should be treated without kiddy gloves and ridiculous coverups.It should just be a part of the fabric of the story, the same as everything else.

Are you okay with an interpretation of this that means there's no nudity at all, as long as it isn't exempt in a hamfisted and unnecessary way?

For example, is deciding to do fade to blacks as a way to depict the scenes something that makes a scene less mature?

No, but after having a sex scene in the ME games and DA:O (even though DA:O's scene were horrible) it would feel like BioWare was trying to take the easy way out. Making sure you don't step on anyone's toes and all that.

Personally, for a game with an MA rating (MA currently being the highest rating in Australia, I'm not sure how the American system works exactly), if it's appropriate for nudity to be shown then it should be shown, or at least implied.

From a non sexual point, say a character is having a shower or something, then they should be shown as being naked. Even if you don't actually see anything of the character and the nudity is simply implied. Having a character shower in their underwear, like ME3 did, is just stupid. As a sidenote, I think Heavy Rain handled non sexual nudity very well.

From a sex point, if you do show the scene and not just cut to black, nudity should also be shown or implied. You can frame the camera so you don't see any breasts or butts or genitals, so long as it's clear that the characters are indeed naked. The dry humping that went on in DA:O was one of the most ridiculous things in a game I've ever seen and made it seem like the developers were incapable of treating sex in a mature manner.

[Maria Caliban]

ShadowLordXII wrote...

But people being naked in a shower or naked while making love is...bad?

Except the writers have told us previously that the lack of nudity was because of model restrictions, not because they're terrified of an unclothed body.

[Sealy]

I like the DA:O scenes! The underwear was hardly notable and uhh, I was okay with it... the ladies keeping their bras on was a little more noticeable though. Meh maybe I am sexist... or maybe I just wanna see more boobs...

[Dirgegun]

I have nothing against fade to black, but I would like a scene of proper intimacy before the fade to black. That's if we're talking about romances here.

If we're talking about shower scenes... why not just handle it using angles that don't show off anything?

Admittedly the gaming industry does have double standards when it comes to violence verse nudity and sexuality. America seems terrible at this, and Australia's censorship makes me want to rip my hair out. (At least until the MA18+ rating comes.) :/ 

Modifié par Dirgegun, 04 octobre 2012 - 08:36 .