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Nrieh wrote...
You know, DAO original "intim scenes" (I mean...by the fireplace...not in a tent...Oghren was happy) and tender any-time-kisses in full plated armor gloves are MUCH more immersion-breaking for me, than any sort of black screen. Same as ME3 rolling around the bed with a "quick drink" intro.I don't see what's so awkward about the animation, honestly. Animation is animation.
Your point is "show us whatever, but show it so that we will know it's there" My point is "if you can't show it right - don't show it, but give me a good emotional link to that black screen".
I can't see how can we agree with each other about the matter, honestly. And I also can't see how any non-rendered cut can do any better.
And to those who remember Withcer all the time. I don't think that witcher was that good.
First - witcher did not have a variety of protagonists. Second - even witcher has clipping issues and with all its "naturality" looks not half as good as short Yenne's romance scene from an old film (where not much of nudity is shown, and where marvelous Grzegorz Ciechowski music is performed). And last one (about "natural" witcher that had nudity): if you take away Geralt's endless love to women from pan Andrzej's books - there still will be something to see and to read. If you take away romance scenes from DAO,DA2 and MEs (replacing them with black screens) -not much will change. If you take away all those scenes from witcher....no one would ever buy that game.
I'm not really saying "show me anything". I'm saying "show me something moving, one way or another". My point about the animation is that it's up to snuff now, and it has been for a lot of years. If you have minor clipping, that's not an issue any more than it is if you have minor clipping in any other interaction. You try to avoid that, but it's not the end of the world if a few pixels here and there cross.
What they can do now, what's really come along in the most amazing way, is minor details. Used to be, the more real a character looked on screen, the more unreal that character seemed. There was a real uncanny valley that was problematic, where the animation made that character seem like a lifeless automaton. The solution was just to animate things in more of a 2D animation sort of way, taking a little stylistic license and animating with a little extra flourish to get around the stiff motion. Now, you have things like Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls, Witcher 2, Yakuza 3 and 4, and Uncharted (whole series) and Mass Effect 3, where characters' eyes dart in realistic fashion and the models are capable of more and more expression, and we've got iterations on iterations of mocap work. Even Dragon Age (both games, excluding the warden's silent stare). Even going back to MGS3 or even FF7, the uncanny valley effect doesn't typically pop up unless you try to make your characters look *completely* human, as close as you can, and then overstep your ability to express those characters through animation. Of course, you still have things like the Thane make out session in ME3 (not the kiss, the jumping his bones thing you can do after if you romanced him) that's just.. it hurts the eyes.. but that's a question of effort, not capability.
If the animation is crafted with care, there is no issue there that I can see. They don't have to look real. They just have to come alive and communicate real emotion, which is done all the time now. 2D characters never even had that problem of course, because there was no technical limit to the animation. They don't need to be realistic to come alive. That's what I mean by "Animation is animation." Sorry for the length, but I actually studied animation, so I felt the need to clarify a bit.
About the Witcher:
I've never played the first game, but I haven't really liked the character dialogues I've seen on YouTube, which is a writing issue. Seems much, much improved in Witcher 2 (I'm not through the third area yet, so still early). What I really don't like are the combat mechanics (dodge and strike and bomb, like old NES games), but I really didn't like the combat in DA2 either. The character himself I don't like as much as my wardens, but I do find him to be a full rounded character that I can approach much better than most action game protagonists, and that's really what you have to compare him to. He's not a player created character with extra pathos we define in part.
Where I have an issue is where you suggest nothing is lost if you take away his bed hopping, or if you remove love scenes and romance scenes from the DA and ME games. His writer created him to be a certain character, to have certain flaws and certain attitudes and to reflect his world. If you sanitize him, which is what you suggest by removing his sexual attitudes and story threads, the whole quality of his character changes, drastically. That's an entirely different man in an entirely different world at that point. If you remove the nudity, all of those scenes become lifeless artifacts of what they should have been, which is what happens every time you censor anything. So you lose a lot, and you gain nothing.
In DA:O, if you remove love scenes, you have no culmination to that subplot, and that's half the game's characterization, then what do you do about the dark ritual? How does that have any impact if you just talk about it second-hand? And what about all the banter and innuendo? You'd just leave that be like sophmore humor?
DA2 is sanitized moreso, which is a major strike against it, and yet you've got endless innuendo, more than any other BioWare game, for what? That stuff gets tiresome after about two lines when you know it's going nowhere. It's like they decided not to actually do anything with the scenes they had, so they made up for it with dirty talk, which just comes across as raunchy humor. And Mass Effect, all of them, aren't even half the games they are without the romance plots, the major part of all of them being the resolution love scenes (and the keeping faithful scene included) and the build-up around that. The Liara romance in particular, through all three games, is my singular favorite part of that series. You remove that, and you've left me with half the reason I played.
You can't make things better simply by chopping off parts you find uncomfortable or offensive (not saying you do, but that's what someone that felt that way would typically do). You just have an absense, which serves nothing, a void. If you fill that with other things (not sure what you'd replace it with that would be half as engrossing), you have a completely different property. That's exactly what censorship does. It callowly cuts out the soul of its target and leaves it empty.
It's like an arguement that came up recently in my state to censor the works of Mark Twain (Huckleberry Finn) to remove all racist words and references, replacing them with neutral role descriptors. You end up left without context for the world in which the story is taking place or the relationship and developement of the primary characters. The result might be more comfortable for some people, but it's never good. There is never a net gain.
edit: typo again
Modifié par cindercatz, 05 octobre 2012 - 06:46 .
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