352 réponses à ce sujet

[hobbit of the shire]

One can hardly call the DA2 love scene a love scene.  It was stepped back a notch from DAO.  The point of the love scene is not to show pixellated porn but to show emotional *love*, and a cutscene that zips by so fast in an blink of an eye doesn't really exude love.  It should show the expression of love and longing, and if that involves some exposure, then okay.  But the expression of love doesn't mean zooming in on boob shots.

I'd rather see that than Isabela's every sentence implicating sex.  Seriously, she's fixated.  All that stuff that she says is way more scandalous than a real love scene.  How much time did the developers spend on writing her dialogue??

[Urzon]

What Bioware's official statement on people's need for graphic love scenes should be...

"If you want our characters to have sex so bad, you should go read/write fanfiction."

[Wolfspawn]

hobbit_of_the_shire wrote...

I'd rather see that than Isabela's every sentence implicating sex.  Seriously, she's fixated.  All that stuff that she says is way more scandalous than a real love scene.  How much time did the developers spend on writing her dialogue??

"They spent 69 years writing my dialogue."
        -Isabela

Modifié par bob_20000, 06 octobre 2012 - 08:28 .

[placentiatao]

bob_20000 wrote...

hobbit_of_the_shire wrote...

I'd rather see that than Isabela's every sentence implicating sex.  Seriously, she's fixated.  All that stuff that she says is way more scandalous than a real love scene.  How much time did the developers spend on writing her dialogue??

"They spent 69 years writing my dialogue."
        -Isabela

lol!

[placentiatao]

Urzon wrote...

What Bioware's official statement on people's need for graphic love scenes should be...

"If you want our characters to have sex so bad, you should go read/write fanfiction."

Agreed!

[AsheraII]

Sidney wrote...

rpmfla wrote...

placentiatao wrote...

If you want full nudity and sex then go watch a porno.

I look forward to more scenes between the lovers- more important emotional scenes, more silly comedic scenes between companions. That is what I believe will really make the story more interesting and inviting!

Wow. I could not disagree more with your first statemtent I have included above but totally agree with your second statement (also included above).

To say nudity and sex only belong in porn? I seldom enjoy just T&A in games (or any media...heck, in real life too) without an emotional connection. Sex and nudity doesn't always have to be about hearts and flowers, but it is always better if you feel it is within the story and you feel an attachment to the characters. But to equate nudity and sex ONLY with porno is just really limiting that aspect of what it is to be human and have desires. To each his/her own, but I find the porn industry to be extraordinately unerotic, unsensual, and unarousing, whereas some of the love scenes (with nudity) in some Bioware games were fulfilling and seemed a natural aspect of the lives of the game characters.

I doubt anyone really wants full one nudity - ok someone does - but the ME1 presentation of the sex scenes was pretty "classy". I mean that is good wholesome PG-13 level "love" scenes. I feel silly watching the scenes in ME2/3 and DAO/DA2 where everyone is wearing their designer undies. The game is an M...roll with that target audience.

The ME1 love scenes, especially if you had the original Consort one, were actually more M-rated than any lovescenes from other Bioware games. The ones in DA:O, DA 2, ME2 and ME3 are actually more towards the PG-13 rating with their magic underwears, implying "oh nothing happened after all, they just cuddled a little".
But what's wrong with that PG-13 rating? Well, EVERYTHING, since this is supposed to be an M-rated game. NOT Adult, mind you, only M. So yes, that gives the developers the freedom to use FULL nudity instead of partial nudity. To IMPLY sexual activity instead of only being suggesting it. This does not mean frontal nudity or depicting sexual activity though, that is another step up, towards adult-rating.

And yes, I do believe that freedom to depict full nudity and imply sexual activity should be used where applicable.
Simply put, the magic undies break immersion and negate the emotional connection the player was building up with the game and its characters untill that point. For all I care, include a self-censor option within the preferences for those who can't handle a nipple.

I know I always had gore turned off in both Dragon Age games, simply because the bloodplatters always looked wrong and unrealistic to me. And they were actually pretty moderate compared to other games I played and which I threw away after half an hour because the gore that was added to justify their M-rating as an advertisement ploy was so ugly and over the top.

[NedPepper]

I don't understand the prudent nature of some people, but it is what it is.

Here's the thing: If Bioware is implying sex as a culmination of a "romance", they should at least be willing to do it a way that is not immersion breaking, silly, or just flat out immature.

Also, not every romance needs to lead to sex. You can show other intimate type scenes if it serves the characters and the romance better. But a character like Isabela? That's very different than say a character like Merrill.

Here's my take: If you want sex, ditch the laughable lengerie, the shower scenes with clothes on, etc. If you're not going to commit it, why even do it?

So either do it right, as in serviceable to the story in a tasteful, yet emotional way, or don't do it at all. Right now, it's  like the devs are 13 year old boys interested in sex, but scared of it as well.

And this whole idea of only female nudity being what is implied here...no. Sylvius demonstrated a few posts back how finding a nude King Cailan is actually more shocking and horrifying to the player. But as far as sex scenes go, no one is asking for full frontal nudity or porn. But PG 13 movies show more realism than ME 2, 3 or the Dragon Age games. Broadcast TV shows more realism. Showing a woman's bare back or the side of a breast or man's backside is not going to subvert the morals of grown men and women. It's just silly.

Modifié par nedpepper, 06 octobre 2012 - 06:27 .

[slimgrin]

nedpepper wrote...

I don't understand the prudent nature of some people, but it is what it is.

Here's the thing: If Bioware is implying sex as a culmination of a "romance", they should at least be willing to do it a way that is not immersion breaking, silly, or just flat out immature.

Also, not every romance needs to lead to sex. You can other do intimate types scenes if it serves the characters and the romance better.. But a character like Isabela? That's very different than say a character like Merrill.

Here's my take: If you want sex, ditch the laughable lengerie, the shower scenes with clothes on, etc. If you're not going to commit it, why even do it?

So either do it right, as in serviceable to the story in a tasteful, yet emotional way, or don't do it at all. Right now, it's a like the devs are 13 year old boys interested in sex, but scared of it as well.

And this whole idea of only female nudity being what is implied here...no. Sylvius demonstrated a few posts back how finding a nude King Cailan is actually more shocking and horrifying. But as far as sex scenes go, no one is asking for full frontal nudity or porn. But PG 13 movies show more realism than ME 2, 3 or the Dragon Age games. Broadcast TV shows more realism. Showing a woman's bare back or the side of a breast or man's backside is not going to subvert the morals of grown men and women. It's just silly.

Quoted for truth.

The fact is there are plenty of ways to show eroticism without showing sex. Many moons ago, I advocated tirelessly for a creative approach to this - could be a woman's back, lovers embracing in dim light so their sillouhette is what matters, or just showing their hands touching..whatever. When it comes to the actual culmination, they simply cannot think outside of the box or it's a half-hearted attempt. If they don't want to show the culmination of two adults in a relationship, they should re-think how to implement romance in the game. Otherwise it really does seem the devs are discovering the topic of sex for the very first time.

Modifié par slimgrin, 06 octobre 2012 - 06:55 .

[LPPrince]

Actual sex does not need to be shown. I hardly find TW2's scenes "mature". Actually, they're just graphic.

ME1's scenes were what I'd call "tasteful". More scenes like those would be preferable, instead of going the DAO/DA2/ME2/ME3 route.

[alex90c]

For your information, I enjoy seeing my character and their LI fumbling around in underwear.

...

Okay, I lie, it was in fact extremely awkward and I have to skip the DA:O scene because it's that hard to watch.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

BioWare shouldn't really care what a crappy network like Fox has to say, although I sometimes see the Meddling Hand of EA in this is as well.

I'm all for tasteful nudity as long as it makes sense contextually. I thought the DA:O love scenes in underwear were silly as was Shepard making out in the shower with a love interest fully clothed!

These games are Rated M. We've all seen ****** and asses and naughty bits belonging to both sexes. These things are not going to hurt us.

[Sylvius the Mad]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

But none of that matters to the character.  Since the PC has no memories of his true background at the start of the game, no aspect of his personality needs to be consistent with that background.  You can start KotOR as a slaver on the run from the Republic who disguised himself as a smuggler and convinced the Endar Spire to carry him somewhere.  You can literally imagine any background at all for the PC in KotOR and the game lets you run with it.

KotOR did the best job of any BioWare game of allowing free and open background design.

NWN is a close second.

You can imagine it, yes, but the game overrides it later on. Doesn't that cancel out any positive effect?

How does the game override it?  The PC's personality, which was based on that background, persists.  At no point does the game ever tell me that the thing I'd created wasn't seen as real by the PC.  Yes, eventually he's told about his true past, but that's exactly the same moment that I'm told about his true past, so I can integrate that into his personality right then without invalidating any of his past choices.

The point is that the game never retroactively makes anything I decided for my character be wrong.  All those past choices remain correct, because the PC's state of mind when those choices were made isn't altered.

[Ridwan]

LPPrince wrote...

Actual sex does not need to be shown. I hardly find TW2's scenes "mature". Actually, they're just graphic.

ME1's scenes were what I'd call "tasteful". More scenes like those would be preferable, instead of going the DAO/DA2/ME2/ME3 route.

Pretty much this, you don't need to see ******, the ding dong and the vagoo in a game. There's something called imagination and fade to black.

[TheRealJayDee]

nedpepper wrote...

I don't understand the prudent nature of some people, but it is what it is.

Here's the thing: If Bioware is implying sex as a culmination of a "romance", they should at least be willing to do it a way that is not immersion breaking, silly, or just flat out immature.

Also, not every romance needs to lead to sex. You can show other intimate type scenes if it serves the characters and the romance better. But a character like Isabela? That's very different than say a character like Merrill.

Here's my take: If you want sex, ditch the laughable lengerie, the shower scenes with clothes on, etc. If you're not going to commit it, why even do it?

So either do it right, as in serviceable to the story in a tasteful, yet emotional way, or don't do it at all. Right now, it's  like the devs are 13 year old boys interested in sex, but scared of it as well.

And this whole idea of only female nudity being what is implied here...no. Sylvius demonstrated a few posts back how finding a nude King Cailan is actually more shocking and horrifying to the player. But as far as sex scenes go, no one is asking for full frontal nudity or porn. But PG 13 movies show more realism than ME 2, 3 or the Dragon Age games. Broadcast TV shows more realism. Showing a woman's bare back or the side of a breast or man's backside is not going to subvert the morals of grown men and women. It's just silly.

/thread

Seriously, this says everything I feel needs to be said about this.

[Sylvius the Mad]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I...think I understand what you're saying. You're saying that whether the events happened or not does not matter, because regardless the character was defined by them?

Right.  As long as I have control over the PC's personality, I'm perfectly happy.

I understand that, but I feel actually having the background is as important as its effect on my personality.

I've seen that sentiment expressed before.  In that case, the player held the opinion that who someone was as a person was immutable, so if they'd ever been capable of the things Revan did, then the PC must also be capable of those things.  That player found Torment similarly limiting.

I found KotOR2 limiting, because the PC should have known about his past (but the player didn't - Atris accusing the Exile of wrongdoing would have been a far better scene if the player had had any idea what she was talking about), but any game where the PC's personality is entirely mine to shape as I see fit is very nearly the perfect game.

[SafetyShattered]

hobbit_of_the_shire wrote...

One can hardly call the DA2 love scene a love scene.  It was stepped back a notch from DAO.  The point of the love scene is not to show pixellated porn but to show emotional *love*, and a cutscene that zips by so fast in an blink of an eye doesn't really exude love.  It should show the expression of love and longing, and if that involves some exposure, then okay.  But the expression of love doesn't mean zooming in on boob shots.

This. I don't need graphic sex or nudity for me to enjoy a love scene, but DA2 was absolutely terrible in that regard. It was way to tame. I mean remember Liara's in ME3 or the ones in ME1? Those were the way it should be. Absolutely perfect.

[unbentbuzzkill]

if you want to make a tasteful sex scene you should just throw in some jello everythings better with jello.

[SafetyShattered]

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

if you want to make a tasteful sex scene you should just throw in some jello everythings better with jello.

Wow that made me laugh much more then it should have lol. Good one.

[Savber100]

So I think it's safe to say that we all want Bioware to get rid of that fracking underwear whether they depict nudity or not.

Personally, unless that's really how video game writers picture sex as, they should at least imply a realistic sense of sexuality without seeming laughable. If you don't want to show nudity, fine but at least don't mock us with scenes of characters humping each other in their undies as of that's how it's done.

Seriously if EA does not allow Bioware to do this then they should just tell us.

[ShadowLordXII]

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

if you want to make a tasteful sex scene you should just throw in some jello everythings better with jello.

Just jello or Berry White and Jello shots?

[unbentbuzzkill]

@shadow'prdXII
only if i have a blindfold and ihave just gotten out of prison

[Han Shot First]

M25105 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Actual sex does not need to be shown. I hardly find TW2's scenes "mature". Actually, they're just graphic.

ME1's scenes were what I'd call "tasteful". More scenes like those would be preferable, instead of going the DAO/DA2/ME2/ME3 route.

Pretty much this, you don't need to see ******, the ding dong and the vagoo in a game. There's something called imagination and fade to black.

Fade to black can be quite lame as well. It depends on how it is used.

To have the screen fade to black after two characters kiss, only to have it fade back in with the characters standing and both fully clothed isn't very cinematic. That is fine I suppose if you don't consider games to be a story telling medium on par with films.

[ledod]

In all honesty, I am luke-warm regarding love scenes. Completely neutral...although, if they were super raunchy, it may be worthy a few giggles. For example, imagine, if while in the throughs of passion, the camera focused on Hawke's face who is amking some crazy thizzy-stank face face...teeheeheeeheee