352 réponses à ce sujet

[Dominus]

Are you okay with an interpretation of this that means there's no nudity at all, as long as it isn't exempt in a hamfisted and unnecessary way? For example, is deciding to do fade to blacks as a way to depict the scenes something that makes a scene less mature?

Well, if I had to make a choice between the two, I would generally go for fading to black. However, If the writers or what have you have a better idea for a scene that can emulate true intimacy and romance, that's worth investing in. Otherwise, I'm not particularly opposed to fade to black by itself. Depends on the scene.

With semi-nudity I mean stuff like showering in underwear or the sex scenes in DA:O during which you could see the underwear.

I also wasn't a big fan of that. 

You can frame the camera so you don't see any specific areas of nudity.

That. ME3 captured it pretty well with liara, particularly due more to lighting than the point of view itself. You can imply "everything" without literally showing "everything".

Modifié par DominusVita, 04 octobre 2012 - 08:39 .

[Hey]

I'm a huge fan of bare backsides. I think there should be some butts in the game...

If not just use awesome camera angles and stuff then.. No undies in the shower because that becomes a comedy routine - which I'm not against but - but only in appropriate circumstance, should there be laughter of any kind.

[daaaav]

I can't stress this enough Alan,

It was Bioware that turned sex and sexuality in your games into a strange gimmicky reward for choosing the right pickup lines or filling the right bar.

I see sex,sexuality and nudity as an integral part of good characterisation and setting, not just as a "hook" to get players interested in your romance mechanics... I don't care what you do as long as it feels authentic and makes me forget that I'm playing a game.

[DarthLaxian]

fade to black?

kiddin' me are ya?

i am sorry, but this is a cheap and - IMHO - easy way out...BAH! makes me wanna puke...why rate a game "mature" (meaning: your player is normally 18+ years old (at least here in germany) and able to have sex himself how and with whom he wants to) if you censor it or only imply things?
you could have gone that road if you did it like that in earlier games, but now that option is just stupid because i could (and will!) call you typical american prudes if you do it like that (and, even more so, if really model-restrictions lead to the DA:O scenes and you could produce some "real" ones now, then it is really bad if you do not, because then it sounds like an excuse (doing the underware-scenes in DA:O)...*shakes his head*

so please bioware, handle this like mature adults and make tastefull scenes (which get what the character is doing across to the audience (catching the mood of the happenings)) and use nudity (show it on camera even, because the other thing is just cheap again, if you show it but don't show it at the same time - you do not need to focus on boobs etc. but let us see them (there is a difference between seeing something and being focused on it like a porn-film is!))

greetings LAX

[Allan Schumacher]

i am sorry, but this is a cheap and - IMHO - easy way out...BAH! makes me wanna puke...why rate a game "mature" (meaning: your player is normally 18+ years old (at least here in germany) and able to have sex himself how and with whom he wants to) if you censor it or only imply things?

Perhaps we'd like to leave it up to the imagination of the player for what type of things occur?

If the reason for wanting to see them is little more than "because I want to see them" then the advantage of showing nudity seems to disappear.

[Icinix]

DarthLaxian wrote...

fade to black?

kiddin' me are ya?

i am sorry, but this is a cheap and - IMHO - easy way out...BAH! makes me wanna puke...why rate a game "mature" (meaning: your player is normally 18+ years old (at least here in germany) and able to have sex himself how and with whom he wants to) if you censor it or only imply things?
you could have gone that road if you did it like that in earlier games, but now that option is just stupid because i could (and will!) call you typical american prudes if you do it like that (and, even more so, if really model-restrictions lead to the DA:O scenes and you could produce some "real" ones now, then it is really bad if you do not, because then it sounds like an excuse (doing the underware-scenes in DA:O)...*shakes his head*

so please bioware, handle this like mature adults and make tastefull scenes (which get what the character is doing across to the audience (catching the mood of the happenings)) and use nudity (show it on camera even, because the other thing is just cheap again, if you show it but don't show it at the same time - you do not need to focus on boobs etc. but let us see them (there is a difference between seeing something and being focused on it like a porn-film is!))

greetings LAX

[daaaav]

Come back Alan! I was enjoying that

[daaaav]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

i am sorry, but this is a cheap and - IMHO - easy way out...BAH! makes me wanna puke...why rate a game "mature" (meaning: your player is normally 18+ years old (at least here in germany) and able to have sex himself how and with whom he wants to) if you censor it or only imply things?

Perhaps we'd like to leave it up to the imagination of the player for what type of things occur?

If the reason for wanting to see them is little more than "because I want to see them" then the advantage of showing nudity seems to disappear.

True, but I trust that you can stop that from happening by moving away from only addressing sex and nudity when it comes to gimmicky romance reward scenes.

[MassStorm]

I think ME1 did it right with romances. They were showing some parts but then they fade to black at the appropriate moment. They were tasteful without being too explicit. I also enjoyed ME3 Liara romance scene. I think that is the way to go.

[daaaav]

Yes, there are near infinite things that you could do. Just leave out the shower clothing and Morrigans magic bra.

[snackrat]

My favourite way of handling that, across the Mass Effect and Dragon Age series, was the ones in ME3. They were more emotional, and tender (or passionate). The others, clothing, underwear, or not, lacked that appeal.

In DAO, Alis's was handled well but the other three felt like a crash course in Kuma Satra (sp?), now with 115% more underwear! ME1's was also good, but what I valued in ME3 was the way the connection between the two entities was realised: not just physically, but emotionally. That is what made them moving, for me.

I don't mind fade to black on its own, but it was a little jarring to cut from before to after with no real... segue I guess? Most films or animations imply the passage of time with a montage of fragments. They don't have to be from all throughout the 'missing' scene - the first few moments suffice and provide an 'event' barrier between the before and after, which DA2 didn't really have (or not to the right degree).

I guess what I'm saying is that while I ssupport 'mature' scenes, I don't want anyone making the assumption that I'm using it as a euphemism for 'erotic'. I want to see characters connect emotionally, be it in love, passion, or whatever: make them like two people as one, rather than mashing polygons together.

Apologies for formatting/spelling; using a mobile device

[Bfler]

DarthLaxian wrote...

... (and, even more so, if really model-restrictions lead to the DA:O scenes and you could produce some "real" ones now, then it is really bad if you do not, because then it sounds like an excuse (doing the underware-scenes in DA:O)...*shakes his head*
...

Which model restrictions are there in Origins? If you use the Better Sex Cutscenes + Natural bodies mods, you have real sex scenes with naked persons in Origins. 

[nightcobra]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I don't think the analogy fits, however.

Unless you'd like to see some sort of gameplay elements during the intimate scenes (which is when your rating does start to shift to AO. For an example see the game Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy), you're suggesting an alternative that limits gameplay.

Though you mention that it makes the game less engaging. Do you feel nudity in a scene makes it more engaging?

if nudity isn't exclusive to romance scenes then yes, i'd say it does.

Orlais, the land of extravangant clothing, art and eccentric people, and yet no one in there would think to see examples of nudity shown like this? to me at least this becomes a clash between what we're told of what Orlais is like and what we're actually shown. 


(maybe even show the artist sculpting/painting his work with the model present) 

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:46 .

[fchopin]

People have to remember that nudity does not have to end with sex, you could be having a swim in the river in the nude or a shower and this is much simpler to do in the nude so the way it was done in ME3 had nothing to do with technical limitations but Biowares decision not so show the scene topless.

To show a love scene in the nude is much more difficult so if it went to black screen i would have no problem but ME1 did a very good job in my opinion.

[AdmiralDavidAnderson]

Just do romance scenes like the Mass Effect games - Showing partial nudity but not the whole shabang.

[Chaos Lord Malek]

What tasteful and sensible love? I want wild sex, screwing like rabbits, not everyone had to be soft romance weakling.

[MichaelStuart]

I say just fade to black, for the pragmatic reason of not spending resources on something so miner.

[Fidget6]

Maria Caliban wrote...

ShadowLordXII wrote...

But people being naked in a shower or naked while making love is...bad?

Except the writers have told us previously that the lack of nudity was because of model restrictions, not because they're terrified of an unclothed body.

Yeah, I'm tired of people pointing the finger at Fox News. Fox News is ridiculous, but I don't think they had much sway over what Bioware included or didn't include in future games. It's not like that small story got much attention outside of people who were already interested in the game, and they later retracted their statements and apologized, admitting they didn't do proper research.

Modifié par Fidget6, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:54 .

[Maria Caliban]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Are you okay with an interpretation of this that means there's no nudity at all, as long as it isn't exempt in a hamfisted and unnecessary way?

For example, is deciding to do fade to blacks as a way to depict the scenes something that makes a scene less mature?

It depends on the love interest and/or the nature of the relationship.

Sex scenes need to act like regular scenes. They should tell us something about the characters, the plot, or the themes of the work.

That's the problem with the DA:O and ME 1 sex scenes: they are one size fits all. They strip away the character's personalities for a generically sexy moment.

DA II and ME 2 were much better in this regards. Isabela is wild and fun-loving; her sex scene is wild and fun-loving. Nudity would be perfectly appropriate. Alternatively, Fenris is emotionally raw. Merrill is sweet and hesitant. Witcher-inspired doggy style scenes wouldn't fit with those characters.

nightcobra8928 wrote...

We saw full frontal male nudity in the Katsumi DLC because of this sculpture. Not only did no one make a big deal of it, but it seems the majority of people never even noticed it.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 04 octobre 2012 - 10:13 .

[AlienWolf728]

A perfectly done sex scene would be Liara's in ME3. I personally didn't like ME1's, but w/e.

[mousestalker]

There's a two fold problem with sex scenes.

The first is technical. Animating them takes resources. If they aren't done well, then they appear silly and unnecessary. Team America did an excellent spoof of what happens when it is done poorly. Without any reassurance that it would be done really well, then fade to black is the only logical choice.

The second is what Maria Caliban discussed above. A generic sex scene is gratuitous as it neither advances the plot nor develops the characters. A scene that only accomplishes one end is an unnecessary scene.

Nudity doesn't bother me in the least. I see it everyday. But nudity for the sake of nudity is not what's needed here. There's plenty of skin on the Internet. What's needed is something that will positive in terms of advancing game objectives and not demolishing the suspension of disbelief.

Some of the ME/DA sex scenes have been cringeworthy. I'd rather Bioware avoid recreating them in the future. Isabela's is a good example of what to do in that regard.

[tmp7704]

Maria Caliban wrote...

DA II and ME 2 were much better in this regards. Isabela is wild and fun-loving; her sex scene is wild and fun-loving. Nudity would be perfectly appropriate. Alternatively, Fenris is emotionally raw. Merrill is sweet and hesitant. Witcher-inspired doggy style scenes wouldn't fit with those characters.

Surely, they could fit with aggressive Hawke. Scenes revolving around interaction should ideally take into account both personalities involved.

Modifié par tmp7704, 04 octobre 2012 - 10:38 .

[Mistress9Nine]

Tasteful? Psssah! Child, I wante monster****s plunging out of the screen, even on female characters!

[KingRoxas]

AlienWolf728 wrote...

A "perfectly done" sex scene would be Liara's in ME3.

This 

Modifié par Kingroxas, 04 octobre 2012 - 10:48 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Because violence is more acceptable than sex.