352 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

We know what bowstrings look like, so they can be implied?

[Medhia Nox]

Wait a minute - now I want to start a topic: Tasteful and Sensible Food Scenes.

Think about all the virtual food your virtual characters could be virtually eating - the options are virtually limitless!

[AtreiyaN7]

Personally, I think that when it fades to black, the entire cast performs in an updated version of An American in Paris as "A Fereldan in Orlais." With a guest appearance by Mordin.

[Medhia Nox]

@AtreiyanN7: I think you're on to something.

Also - the corny music during the love scenes is super awesome - who doesn't love it!?

Personally - I'd rather have no music through the entire game and just work on the sound effects of the background - but during these scenes I feel like I'm going to overdose on melodrama.

[Sejborg]

Filament wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Filament wrote...
...Or, they just felt it wasn't necessary to show. We all know what sex looks like. It only becomes about maturity if you make it about maturity.

We all know what food looks like, so why look at it? It only becomes about making sense if you make it about making sense. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sideways.png[/smilie]

I'm glad we've established that eating scenes are also not necessary in an RPG and can simply be implied. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sideways.png[/smilie]

Armors and clothing are also not necessary and can simply be implied. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sideways.png[/smilie]

[DKJaigen]

RAGING_BULL wrote...

Nudity = Mature

When will people lose this mindset?

Though I agree there are some love scenes in mass effect and dragon age that look silly.

Either they go the blackscreen or take the bra's of , Everytime i see those scenes with the bra's is like a BW employer screaming in my ear that i cannot handle it. However i dont want porn in my games. Anyway the liara scenes  in ME 1 the liara is still my favorite and i hope BW models  future love scenes after it.

Modifié par DKJaigen, 04 octobre 2012 - 07:59 .

[Sejborg]

Nevermind

Modifié par Sejborg, 04 octobre 2012 - 07:58 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Filament wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Filament wrote...

Only if you feel your maturity is constantly under assault would you perceive a fade to black as an attack on your maturity, I think.

Do you close your eyes during sex and use your imagination to pretend your doing something else often then?

The fade to black doesn't imply anything other than sex. If you were imagining something else, that wasn't the game's doing.

Dislike nudity? Close your eyes and don't watch then you can fade to black to your hearts content whenever you wish using your eye lids. Something should not fail to exist just because you do not want to see it. For those who want to see something a lot more natural than a kiss>hug>clothed character rubbing against each other>fade out to black>laying in bed covered then it should be present if the game is still development unless the team lack the creativity or ability to craft such scenes or game already gone gold and released in which case any feedback should be handled in the following DLC.

Noone here is asking for a porno but they sure as hell want something less stupid than hug+kiss and dry humping followed by fade to black. As others have said and myself included, examples of it actually done well or better are the likes of ME3 Liara someone else references and TW2 I referenced. Even DAO and ME1-2 were done better than DA2. Anyone who thinks DA2 was done well in this department is just silly imho. Having said that despite what Bioware creates there will be mods to show flesh at some point even without a mod kit. I would just prefer Bioware did it well in first place instead of relying on fans to fix or improve something.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 octobre 2012 - 08:46 .

[DreGregoire]

I think it's a bit much to expect the dev's to spend time and resources on making nude models. I would rather have the developers spend those resources on more varied romantic encounters and/or the option of repeating the romantic scene (s).

[Nefertari19]

I honestly don't see what would be wrong with a little more nutidy and if people have a problem with it why cant we choose? In dragon age 2 if I do not want my helmet to show I go to the menu click interface and check the box to hide my helmet. Can't I click this if I do not want nudity? I was super sad I couldnt see Anders partialy naked and I don't think they showed Isabella half naked either. I do like romancing other characters and getting really into the game and a little more visual in that area would be awesome!

[Todd23]

Have an option only available to adults to have every sex scene look like full blown porn. It makes it more engaging.

[Knight of Dane]

DreGregoire wrote...

I think it's a bit much to expect the dev's to spend time and resources on making nude models. I would rather have the developers spend those resources on more varied romantic encounters and/or the option of repeating the romantic scene (s).

Most normal 3D models are created as a "real" body, so it's pretty much nude as a standard, if anything it takes less time because they don't have to decide on a set of weird-looking underwear.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I think the point is not that we NEED nudity for a "mature" story but that a "mature" story should treat nudity maturely.

By that I mean it should be treated without kiddy gloves and ridiculous coverups.It should just be a part of the fabric of the story, the same as everything else.

Are you okay with an interpretation of this that means there's no nudity at all, as long as it isn't exempt in a hamfisted and unnecessary way?

For example, is deciding to do fade to blacks as a way to depict the scenes something that makes a scene less mature?

A counter-example might be how the darkspawn left Cailan's underwear intact when they tacked him up in Ostagar, or how the piles of corpses underneath Fort Drakon were all modestly attired (seriously, a nude mod makes Fort Drakon way creepier).

We all saw how the nudity was removed from DAO shortly before release.  There were scenes released that showed desire demons with exposed nipples, and then when the game came out the nipples were covered (but the animations were unchanged, so there was clipping).  Someone with authority decided that nudity was unacceptable, despite nudity having been actively included and being wholly appropriate for the game.

[Sylvius the Mad]

double post

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:01 .

[Fallstar]

They could of course solve most of these problems by releasing a toolset. That way, people who prefer nudity where appropriate can download the relevant mod, and Bioware don't have to deal with the various ignorant reports by the folks at Fox News.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

DuskWarden wrote...

They could of course solve most of these problems by releasing a toolset. That way, people who prefer nudity where appropriate can download the relevant mod, and Bioware don't have to deal with the various ignorant reports by the folks at Fox News.

Fox news raised ME1 sales. In the end, it was good for Bioware.

[Savber100]

One of the funniest moments in DA:O was when Loghain was chatting with Zev if you spared the former:

Zevran: So, err...is it Lord Loghain?
Loghain: I am no longer a teyrn, nor even a knight. Address me without a title, as you would any other Grey Warden.
Zevran: So just Loghain, then.
Loghain: Correct. What's on your mind?
Zevran: You know who I am, yes? I was one of the Crows you hired to kill the Grey Wardens.
Loghain: I thought you looked familiar.
Zevran: Well, I just wanted to report that I failed my mission, Loghain.
Loghain: You don't say.
Zevran: I'm terribly broken up over it.
Loghain: Hmm. Well thank you kindly for informing me.

Funniest crap ever so I'm more than supportive of more banter as long as it doesn't end up distracting from the main story etc etc.

[Sylvius the Mad]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

DuskWarden wrote...

They could of course solve most of these problems by releasing a toolset. That way, people who prefer nudity where appropriate can download the relevant mod, and Bioware don't have to deal with the various ignorant reports by the folks at Fox News.

Fox news raised ME1 sales. In the end, it was good for Bioware.

BioWare got more sales, and we got the best love scenes BioWare has ever done.  It was a win-win.

[Darth Death]

A "Tasteful and sensible love scene" can be done without nudity. Love can endure without the practice of sex.

[Conduit0]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The one thing people often compare is the exploding bodies and whatnot.

Another difference for that is that stuff like that is more caricature. If we were to depict combat in a more realistic way, it'd probably be a rather unsettling thing as well. Probably moreso than a sex scene as well.

But I don't think people are asking for caricature style sex scenes...

I don't know about other people, but personally I'm fine with the no nudity. What I don't like however are so called "love scenes" that are just a waste of time. DA2 was really bad about that, its scenes were so censored that I honestly felt like even having them at all was just a waste of the player's time and it actually would have been more entertaining if you're companions had simply ragged on you/gossiped about what you did, "the other night".

Now what I see as a sex scene done right was Liara's scene from ME3, no actual nudity(unless you consider a blue butt nudity) but it gives a real sense of the passion and love between the two characters, and in my (not so)humble opinion, thats what makes a love scene worth watching.

But who knows, maybe I'm just a weirdo.

[Dragoonlordz]

Filament wrote...

You must have left out the part where this has anything to do with maturity. And no, I don't "dislike nudity." Though 3d rendered nudity tends to be less than fantastic, as DAO and many other examples show.

It is only less than fantastic if the developer does it in a less than fantastic way prime example is the Dragon Age franchise which suffers from this especially DA2. It can be done very well shown by examples of it done well in TW2 and ME3.

Anyone who think's DAO's was done well with the unfitting underwear and actual dry humping and that music is just silly imho. I would gladly take DA2's implementation over that. Could it be done differently? Yea, but I don't assign a 'good' or 'bad' connotation with that (unless the non-fade-to-black scene looks uncanny, of which there is a very high probability), much less a 'mature' or 'immature' one. They're just different ways of conveying the same idea, one being more conservative in its approach and leaving it more to the imagination.

I said TW2 and ME3 was done well. With regard to DAO+ME1 and ME2 I said they was done better than DA2. There was nothing mature about characters flapping around each other like having fits in DA2, nothing mature in hug>kiss>fade to black>wake up covered with bed sheets. That is not mature, thats fear of criticism or inability to craft better scenes. Avoidance is what it came across as to me, plus poorly created. A "mature" rated game with 'everyone 10+" romance scenes.

I think part of the reason why so bad in DA2 is not just because the team are unwilling to handle companion nudity, I don't think they could make the characters look any good in proper handled nudity due to bad models too (Merrill is just creepy thin as one example and remember Bethanys hands). So I figure probably more than one reason why this specific element is much worse quality in this franchise compared to ME franchise and TW2.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:46 .

[Sejborg]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
We all saw how the nudity was removed from DAO shortly before release.  There were scenes released that showed desire demons with exposed nipples, and then when the game came out the nipples were covered (but the animations were unchanged, so there was clipping).  Someone with authority decided that nudity was unacceptable, despite nudity having been actively included and being wholly appropriate for the game.

Yeah. I think this is true. Also if you swing the camera around in a certain way with Morrigan, the camera will go through Morrigans dress and you will see a nipple. So Morrigan has been designed nude, but when it's time for the sexscene, Morrigan has a low rendered bra. Someone has last minute decided that nudity is a "no go". The evidence is there. 

It's probably an EA thing though. And that kind of make the discussion pointless. Even if Bioware think the "no nudity" is kinda stupid, they can't do anything about it. Someone has tied their hands. 

Modifié par Sejborg, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:47 .

[FenrirBlackDragon]

I do think ME1 handled this pretty well. I play Dragon Age on my Xbox though, so I don't have the luxury of mods to fix the scenes in DA:O (might change in a year or two, depending). But, of all the things I have issues with in a game, it's probably not very high on my list. What hooked me on the romances in Origins was the emotional content, the development of a deep and lasting emotional bond between my Warden and the person they cared for the most.

And the romances were diverse, not just in their opinions but personalities and their character roles. I felt in DA2 it was more like two romances storylines but with a male and female for each one. (Isabela and Fenris felt very similar in emotional content to me even though they are different characters with slight undercurrent differences because they were both afraid of falling in love and losing something- whether it was themselves or someone else. Same with Anders and Merrill, they are both dangerous mages who tend to gush over you and move in with you, and in the end their dangerous practices cost a heavy price.)

Granted, I am probably over generalizing for DA2, but that's kind of how it came across to me. For DA:O on the other hand, I feel a genuine difference in each path. I could probably generalize them as well, though, I admit.

So, in sum, to me the emotional content matters more.

[tmp7704]

philippe willaume wrote...

Really there is no way for bioware to know what type off hawke we are going to play. I mean why not a dialoge wheel to get a different ends scene whilst we are at it.

That's what they had the dominant tone system for -- to track what type of Hawke the player would play, so they could play content tailored to that type without the dialogue wheel at every interaction. While i'm not personally a fan of that system in general, as long as they insist on having it, it seems like a logical spot to make use of it.