352 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I would like Bioware to stop doing things like giving Morrigan a special intimacy bra

Is it actually a custom model specifically for Morrigan's body that only exists for Morrigan while not wearing clothes? Or is it a more general "female body not wearing any clothes?" (this is actually somewhat serious. I actually don't know the answer to this question).

General female body.

[Maugrim]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I would like Bioware to stop doing things like giving Morrigan a special intimacy bra

Is it actually a custom model specifically for Morrigan's body that only exists for Morrigan while not wearing clothes? Or is it a more general "female body not wearing any clothes?" (this is actually somewhat serious. I actually don't know the answer to this question).

It's a one size fits all model for the love scenes which is why we have this issue.  On the other hand it also gives us Wynn's magical busom so I consider it a fair trade.!

And since I'm here I'll just say one of my favorite love scenes in a bioware game so far has been between shep and Liara in ME3.  http://bit.ly/QxM6zN No not the nekkid part (though that was nice), but when they lean back on the bed, lean towards each other while intertwining hands and Shep gives Liara a peck on the cheek...that displayed some awesome intimacy!

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 05 octobre 2012 - 03:05 .

[Fast Jimmy]

I have nothing of any real value to this thread (of which I'm sure people are thankful ) other than to say...

'...just an old fashioned love scene... one they surely made for you and me
Just an old fashioned love scene... blasting forth in three part harmonies!'



Hmmm. Actually, that last line sounds a little bit dirty in that context.

[daaaav]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I would like Bioware to stop doing things like giving Morrigan a special intimacy bra

Is it actually a custom model specifically for Morrigan's body that only exists for Morrigan while not wearing clothes? Or is it a more general "female body not wearing any clothes?" (this is actually somewhat serious. I actually don't know the answer to this question).

Though regardless, even if it is a custom body, I do know how the cinematics would have been set up and there would have been marks on the cinematic timeline that specify that the chestpiece Morrigan is wearing should be set to "none." So she'll be using the same body type that she would as though you unequipped her chestpiece.

I know some people look at her base armor (which indicates no bra), and then kind of stink eye when they unequip her chestpiece and suddenly she's wearing a bra because it doesn't "make sense" as she clearly isn't wearing one beforehand!

So it's not so much that Morrigan was given a "special intimacy bra" but rather that she was just using the body type she's assigned to use when she's not wearing any chest armor.

Just to be clear, the way the the model swap works, her standard armor isn't really "clothes hanging over top of the body." The WHOLE 3D mesh is considered one unit and the whole thing gets replaced when changing someone's armor..

So while it's okay for you to be disappointed because we didn't create scenes that depict naked people in them, it wasn't as though work was intentionally done to specifically put a bra on Morrigan for this scene. It just uses her "armorless" body mesh.

I don't think I'm going to be able to keep arguing this without coming across as a sex crazed lunatic...

I'm not "disappointed" that there is no naked people. Rather, It feels that there is an unseen modesty cop following the player around Ferelden, covering people up in ridiculous ways. This shatters the players immersion and I think that there are better, more organic ways to do this.

[Allan Schumacher]

Well, you're "disappointed" in that the scene isn't as satisfying as you'd like it to be. You're not coming across as a sex crazed lunatic

[Medhia Nox]

I know I'm going to get lynched for this... but I'd be more impressed with a game that doesn't have sex in it at this point.

Relationships - yes - but fledgling ones that develop over such a short period of time - during such duress (as Reapers and Blights must be) - that simply don't provide any sort of realistic time for sex.

Not because I feel uncomfortable - far from it - but because it's becoming somewhat standard to have awkward - half-arsed sex scenes in RPGs now - and I'd like to see someone write a story without this pitiful nod to base titilation.

In fact - let's have one game with no romantic options available - but with intense sexual tension and flirtation (leaving room for sequels).

At any rate - change what's currently being done - because it's becoming laughable (instead of just silly).

[NedPepper]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I don't think the analogy fits, however.

Unless you'd like to see some sort of gameplay elements during the intimate scenes (which is when your rating does start to shift to AO. For an example see the game Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy), you're suggesting an alternative that limits gameplay.

Though you mention that it makes the game less engaging. Do you feel nudity in a scene makes it more engaging?

Here's the argument:  When you see nudity in a sex scene in a rated R movie, done well to enhance the story in a way that fits, are you engaged?  It's not saying, WE NEED MOAR BOOBS.

It's, "we're all adults here and perhaps it can make the romances more authentic and grounded."

No one is asking for porn.  Or anyone worth listening to.  That's not the point.

It's Bioware's sudden fear of sex.  Done badly, it's laughable.  Done well...the personal relationships between characters is on of Bioware SIGNATURE traits.  Fading to black?  It feels like shying away from truth.  Or just being scared of backlash.

[AbsoluteApril]

Medhia Nox wrote...
 no romantic options available - but with intense sexual tension and flirtation (leaving room for sequels).

that's what Sebastian is for

[daaaav]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Well, you're "disappointed" in that the scene isn't as satisfying as you'd like it to be. You're not coming across as a sex crazed lunatic

Well that's good to know

I guess I would just not want  Bioware to limit ythemselves unnesseccarily when it comes to crafting the game world. Evocative imagery is integral  to both characterisation and setting, and the human form can certainly be evocative.  

Modifié par daaaav, 05 octobre 2012 - 03:54 .

[Battlebloodmage]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The one thing people often compare is the exploding bodies and whatnot.

Another difference for that is that stuff like that is more caricature. If we were to depict combat in a more realistic way, it'd probably be a rather unsettling thing as well. Probably moreso than a sex scene as well.

But I don't think people are asking for caricature style sex scenes...

So there definitely won't be wolf whistling or eyes popping out?

How could you, Bioware?

[Battlebloodmage]

I really don't like the idea of bra and underpants being on during the sex scenes. Maybe if Bioware doesn't want to show nude scenes, they could use special angles like behind the back or close-up shots. I want to at least see some "actions" like kissing or clothes being removed. Not the act of sex, but the "foreplay" that leading up to sex which would make the scene great. There are movies with sex-scenes that are pretty revealing while not showing any private parts. It's just an idea.

[Sanunes]

I always preferred how Mass Effect 1 depicted the climax of the relationships. I am not sure why, but just having the outline of the characters means more then having the characters interact with each other, it could be because some of the relationships seem awkward, for Samantha Traynor in Mass Effect 3 looks weird while she was in her underwear while she shared the shower with FemShep who was fully clothed. A scene like that I think would have had a better presentation if it was more like the style presented in Mass Effect 1 and been just outlines of the two characters, even just using the same animations.

Modifié par Sanunes, 05 octobre 2012 - 04:13 .

[Squeeze the Fish]

To me it seems the more nudity in an game's sex-sequence the weirder it gets. The AlistairxWarden love scene was so awkward I couldn't help but laugh. It's something about the animations- things don't move the way they're supposed to- that turns me off.

However, I wouldn't mind a longer romance scene. I don't mind the "fade to black" idea, but I would like to see more build up before the fade. This is supposed to be the culmination of the relationship; I'd like it to feel like it.

DAII came pretty close on this front for me, especially the Anders sequence (who is not actually my preferred LI).

TL:DR The longer the (build up) sequence, the better. At least for this fangirl!

[flub3]

I agree with the guy above me. The Mass Effect 1 scenes were tastefully done and didn't have seem awkward.

[VanDraegon]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

 Do you feel nudity in a scene makes it more engaging?

Not necessarily, at least from my POV.  A well done fade to black that presents the initial stages of intimacy(such as clothes coming off, romantic touches, etc) can be more powerful than a full on nude scene.

As a 40 something gamer, nudity in a game isnt something salacious or something i seek out. It is nice to have a game that is targettted at an adult that doesnt shy away from adult situations, or adult content. I am not shocked by nude scenes anymore and frankly if there is romance that is part of the mechanics of the game then it is something that should be included. As long as it is done in a mature and tasteful manner.

Bewbs for no other reason that just to show bewbs is juvenile and frankly beneath the caliber of an rpg coming out of Bioware.

[DadeLeviathan]

I want love scenes that seem authentic. I'm tired of video games either going to corny/fade to black route, or trying to emulate the stale, boring and overly stylized sex scenes too often seen in film. Way too often, video game sex scenes look like they were designed by people who have never had sex in their life. And I know that's not true because many people on these development teams have significant others and spouses. But too often these scenes seem like they were created and animated by people whose only experience with sex is bad fan fiction and porn.

Sex is unbridled passion and desire mixed in with just a little bit of awkwardness and embarrassment. The best sex scenes in films and novels reflect that. I would like to see video games reach that level as well. The sex scenes in Bioware games haven't been immature at all. They've just been bad. The only sex scene that they've done ANY type of justice to was the original Mass Effect one, and even that one was very stylized and way too "hollywood" for my tastes.

The sex scenes in Origins were absolutely cringe-worthy. everytime I play through the game I have to skip through them. The awkward movements in the animation mixed with the stupid underwear-on bodies make them horrible to watch. Ditto with Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, I realize much of this may come from resource restraints (it's very hard to model the naked body as realistically as the clothed or armored body. Breasts are not static, and the human eye recognizes that. Whereas if she's wearing a bra, our brain goes, "oh okay. Bra. That's why they aren't moving." That's because we have been trained to recognize that. Ditto with men and their underwear.

But come on. You guys are all intelligent people. You must be able to figure out a way that is within your resource budget, but also stays away from the cliche fade-to-black while being well done and evoking the same kind of tasteful emotion that great sex scenes in film and literature do.

[Villiamus]

Look when it comes to sex and nudity if there is a point to it I'm all for it, people don't wear underwear in the shower. I don't want Dragon Age to go all Game of Thrones, but if a scene should arise were either the PC and or an NPC would be naked (bathing, having sex whatever) they should be naked. That being said, I play Bioware games for the stories I don't want boobs bouncing at me left, right and center

[Skydive84]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

i am sorry, but this is a cheap and - IMHO - easy way out...BAH! makes me wanna puke...why rate a game "mature" (meaning: your player is normally 18+ years old (at least here in germany) and able to have sex himself how and with whom he wants to) if you censor it or only imply things?

Perhaps we'd like to leave it up to the imagination of the player for what type of things occur?

If the reason for wanting to see them is little more than "because I want to see them" then the advantage of showing nudity seems to disappear.

And yet you are making a huge effort of making a game that will tell us exactly what happens for aprox 40-60 hours, but when it comes to the climax of the Romance system (that developers implemented) it is suddenly up to us to imagine what happens?

It does not make ANY sense to me.

Modifié par Skydive84, 05 octobre 2012 - 07:13 .

[Maria Caliban]

I will say that the BioWare's cinematic focus is the opposite of 'let them use their imaginations.'

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Also if you swing the camera around in a certain way with Morrigan, the camera will go through Morrigans dress and you will see a nipple. So Morrigan has been designed nude, but when it's time for the sexscene, Morrigan has a low rendered bra. Someone has last minute decided that nudity is a "no go". The evidence is there.

How did I not know this?


...... actually, how does anyone know this?

The camera follows the controlled character at a fixed distance.  If the camera is down at a fairly low angle, it will run right through nearby companions.

I'd describe it as a fairly common occurence.

[Sylvius the Mad]

M25105 wrote...

I did, responded to the posts above me about how silly it was that the king that died in DA:O had his undies on as well as the werewolves if you cured them. It's just beyond silly.

It's a better scene if Cailan's naked.  There's a marked lack of dignity to a naked man, and having the King strung up for all to see is an affecting moment.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I will say that the BioWare's cinematic focus is the opposite of 'let them use their imaginations.'

That's a good point.  The fade-to-black is arguably off-message.

[MissOuJ]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I know I'm going to get lynched for this... but I'd be more impressed with a game that doesn't have sex in it at this point.

Relationships - yes - but fledgling ones that develop over such a short period of time - during such duress (as Reapers and Blights must be) - that simply don't provide any sort of realistic time for sex.

Not because I feel uncomfortable - far from it - but because it's becoming somewhat standard to have awkward - half-arsed sex scenes in RPGs now - and I'd like to see someone write a story without this pitiful nod to base titilation.

In fact - let's have one game with no romantic options available - but with intense sexual tension and flirtation (leaving room for sequels).

At any rate - change what's currently being done - because it's becoming laughable (instead of just silly).

We can flee the angry mob together then, because I couldn't agree with you more. Well, I actually like having romantic options available, but the way people talk it's like the only thing that validates your characters romantic involment with a party member/NPC is the sex scene. Like, I remember how people harped on about Sebastian's "poor" romance only because he wanted to be chaste. I might hate Sebastian's guts (he's a great character, but as a person not someone I could stand in IRL at all) but his chastity was not the reason for it.

But it really bothers me that people think Mature rating = all the sex!, because there are a lot of other things that require a higher rating, like drug use, violence, disturbing themes etc. and I think both the ME series and the DA series has a few of those, thus the Mature rating. On the other hand, if people really want the "Mature content galore", Lars von Trier -esque video game, knock yourselves out but warn me first. Antichrist the RPG...



Also, it's pretty blatant that pretty much all of this discussion is how the female body should be more realistically represented in the sex scenes... do we really have not enough boobs in the gaming media? I do agree having underwear on during the sex scenes is pretty comic, but there are plenty of side boobs to be had, so to speak. I have also never seen a pair of fully rendered breasts/nipples in a video game that haven't made me want to clutch my chest protectively and flee in horror.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 05 octobre 2012 - 08:17 .

[TNT1991]

If I had to choose between (a) better romanceable companions and more memorable, interesting romantic interactions throughout the game or  ( nudity in a single sex scene, I'd go for option A.  Evertime.   

I don't mind nudity, but I don't need it to tell me what a good story is and I never will. 

Modifié par TNT1991, 05 octobre 2012 - 09:56 .