60 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

The advantage of DA:O's meaningless board quests was that they were agreeably easy to ignore.

The Aveline quest did highlight one of the flaws of DA2, which was a general sameness about the game throughout - you couldn't have a quest which didn't include getting attacked by waves of bad guys.

[a12boom]

Re-used enviroments
Stuck in the same boring city for ten years
Lame companions
Lacking Story
Time skips
Babysitting your family
Doing everything for everyone in the city

etc, etc.

[Pedrak]

OP,
I somewhat agree with your general point - many quests in DA2 were pointless spam fetch quests - but not with your example. That particular quest, if maybe a little too "cute" for my tastes, at least was original (the fact that the waves in DA2 were terrible combat design is another thing, and widely agreed upon). The real pain was the amount of awful FedEx quests, featuring no interesting character, dialogue, lore or tactical choice - just "find X, bring X to Y, get money". The kind of stuff you don't see anymore even in decent fan-made mods.

Modifié par Pedrak, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:32 .

[Maclimes]

It also occurs to me that the entire concept that DA2 failed is likely flawed. They did not fail. A large number of people played and loved the game. I still play it from time to time, and my niece loves it. These are just personal anecdotes, sure, but I'm sure someone could back me up with hard math that DA2 was actually a successful game.

[Orian Tabris]

marktcameron wrote...

Like the one where you have to ask some guard if he likes Aveline Vallen. .Then you have to guard him from 15-20 spawn enemies just to let him know that aveline vallen likes him. It just doesn't make any sense to add that in to the game it add nothing to the story.

You are crazy! That was THE best quest so far in Dragon Age! Besides, it had a purpose: to develop Aveline's character. The fact that you can't see that, tells me you're just ranting for the sake of ranting, and don't know what you're talking about, anyway.

Credibility modifier: 0.0

[Pedrak]

Maclimes wrote...

It also occurs to me that the entire concept that DA2 failed is likely flawed. They did not fail. A large number of people played and loved the game. I still play it from time to time, and my niece loves it. These are just personal anecdotes, sure, but I'm sure someone could back me up with hard math that DA2 was actually a successful game.

If by "fail" we mean that the game was a complete and utter catastrophe ("LOL WORST GAME EVER") devoid of any positive feature whatsoever, I'd say it didn't fail.

If by "fail" we mean that it bombed and made Bio lose mountains of gold, again, it didn't fail - as far as I know it sold less than DAO, but its development cycle was much shorter, so it cost a lot less.

If by "fail" we mean that, in general, it wasn't as well received as DAO by critics and by fans, both on these forums and
by other players... well...

Modifié par Pedrak, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:45 .

[Maclimes]

Pedrak wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

It also occurs to me that the entire concept that DA2 failed is likely flawed. They did not fail. A large number of people played and loved the game. I still play it from time to time, and my niece loves it. These are just personal anecdotes, sure, but I'm sure someone could back me up with hard math that DA2 was actually a successful game.

If by "fail" we mean that the game was a complete and utter catastrophe ("LOL WORST GAME EVER") devoid of any positive feature whatsoever, I'd say it didn't fail.

If by "fail" we mean that it bombed and made Bio lose mountains of gold, again, it didn't fail - as far as I know it sold less than DAO, but its development cycle was much shorter, so it cost a lot less.

If by "fail" we mean that, in general, it wasn't as well received as DAO by critics and by fans, both on these forums and
by other players... well...

Fair point. But I know from a personal standpoint, I don't consider DA2 a failure. And obviously, neither Bioware nor EA do, either, or we wouldn't be talking about DA3 now.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Vandicus wrote...

There were boards in Redcliffe and Denerim as well. As a completionist, I can attest to the existence of these quests outside of Lothering. The problem with many DA:O quests was that they were essentially meaningless, both over the course of the game, in regards to save imports, and in the epilogue. The game has huge portions which are devoted solely to increasing wealth, gearing up, or gaining more experience points. The Fade is a massive section where nearly most of the content is devoted to increasing stats.

Yet there were many board quests with some backstory. The Chantry ones, for example, have plenty of backstory and most of them weren't even fetch quests. Then there are the mage side quests (which you take from a mage collective or whatever the hell they were called) which actually had some backstory to them as well.

Meanwhile most of DA2's side quests were fetch quests or "go here and kill an army" and had no multiple solutions or endings. Hell they didn't even have explanations, at least the board quests in Origins gave you explanations from the quest-giver (whoever wrote the message).

Sorry but DA2 had crappy quests. Only the main quests were good and yet they had nothing on the quests from Origins. Hell even the companion quests in Origins were better.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:51 .

[Felya87]

Pedrak wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

It also occurs to me that the entire concept that DA2 failed is likely flawed. They did not fail. A large number of people played and loved the game. I still play it from time to time, and my niece loves it. These are just personal anecdotes, sure, but I'm sure someone could back me up with hard math that DA2 was actually a successful game.

If by "fail" we mean that the game was a complete and utter catastrophe ("LOL WORST GAME EVER") devoid of any positive features whatsoever, I'd say it didn't fail.

If by "fail" we mean that it bombed and made Bio lose mountains of gold, again, it didn't fail - as far as I know it sold less than DAO, but its development cycle was a lot shorter, so it cost a lot less.

If by "fail" we mean that, in general, it wasn't as well received as DAO by critics and by fans, both on these forums and
by other players... well...

But you have to remember that most of the sold was because fans of the first game bought the game because they loved the first, or at least where attracted by the good reputation of DA:O...

how many people sell their copy in the flea market? I don't know in other places, but here where I live (Italy), all the shops are full of second hand copies of DA2...very rare are the DA:O ones.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Felya87 wrote...

Pedrak wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

It also occurs to me that the entire concept that DA2 failed is likely flawed. They did not fail. A large number of people played and loved the game. I still play it from time to time, and my niece loves it. These are just personal anecdotes, sure, but I'm sure someone could back me up with hard math that DA2 was actually a successful game.

If by "fail" we mean that the game was a complete and utter catastrophe ("LOL WORST GAME EVER") devoid of any positive features whatsoever, I'd say it didn't fail.

If by "fail" we mean that it bombed and made Bio lose mountains of gold, again, it didn't fail - as far as I know it sold less than DAO, but its development cycle was a lot shorter, so it cost a lot less.

If by "fail" we mean that, in general, it wasn't as well received as DAO by critics and by fans, both on these forums and
by other players... well...

But you have to remember that most of the sold was because fans of the first game bought the game because they loved the first, or at least where attracted by the good reputation of DA:O...

how many people sell their copy in the flea market? I don't know in other places, but here where I live (Italy), all the shops are full of second hand copies of DA2...very rare are the DA:O ones.

Kinda agree, only with the UK instead, took me forever to find a DAO copy in East London.

[hexaligned]

I disagree, I think the side quests in DA2 were a huge improvment over DAO, and this is coming from someone who finds DA2 to be generaly unplayable.  The specific example you gave of Avalines infatuation quest, was great, compared to 90% of DAO's quests, or at least I thought so.  If anything it would be nice if they just had companion or story driven quests in DA3.  The only side quests in DAO I enjoyed were the companion quests, and the "random encounter" battlefield quests.

Edit: Oh, and the specilization quests, bring those back.

Modifié par relhart, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:55 .

[Pedrak]

Felya87 wrote...

Pedrak wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

It also occurs to me that the entire concept that DA2 failed is likely flawed. They did not fail. A large number of people played and loved the game. I still play it from time to time, and my niece loves it. These are just personal anecdotes, sure, but I'm sure someone could back me up with hard math that DA2 was actually a successful game.

If by "fail" we mean that the game was a complete and utter catastrophe ("LOL WORST GAME EVER") devoid of any positive features whatsoever, I'd say it didn't fail.

If by "fail" we mean that it bombed and made Bio lose mountains of gold, again, it didn't fail - as far as I know it sold less than DAO, but its development cycle was a lot shorter, so it cost a lot less.

If by "fail" we mean that, in general, it wasn't as well received as DAO by critics and by fans, both on these forums and
by other players... well...

But you have to remember that most of the sold was because fans of the first game bought the game because they loved the first, or at least where attracted by the good reputation of DA:O...

I don't disagree with this at all - just stating that the fact Bio actually lost money with DA2 - I have seen people stating it pretty often - is most likely a misconception.

Modifié par Pedrak, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:57 .

[Vandicus]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

There were boards in Redcliffe and Denerim as well. As a completionist, I can attest to the existence of these quests outside of Lothering. The problem with many DA:O quests was that they were essentially meaningless, both over the course of the game, in regards to save imports, and in the epilogue. The game has huge portions which are devoted solely to increasing wealth, gearing up, or gaining more experience points. The Fade is a massive section where nearly most of the content is devoted to increasing stats.

Yet there were many board quests with some backstory. The Chantry ones, for example, have plenty of backstory and most of them weren't even fetch quests. Then there are the mage side quests (which you take from a mage collective or whatever the hell they were called) which actually had some backstory to them as well.

Meanwhile most of DA2's side quests were fetch quests or "go here and kill an army" and had no multiple solutions or endings. Hell they didn't even have explanations, at least the board quests in Origins gave you explanations from the quest-giver (whoever wrote the message).

Sorry but DA2 had crappy quests. Only the main quests were good and yet they had nothing on the quests from Origins. Hell even the companion quests in Origins were better.

Having a backstory doesn't make the quest any less meaningless(having no impact on save imports, later in the game, or the story).

I'm playing through DA2 first act, and it simply has a much higher proportion of meaningful quests. There are a very small handful of meaningless quests, only one so far is the Herbalist's Tasks.

The wealth/gear/xp quest to story driven quest proportion was much better in DA2 than DA:O. It could still stand to be improved, but on the whole the quests had carrythrough.

[Felya87]

Maybe I don't remember well, but the more you go forward in the acts, less are the side quests and less they are meaninful. I remember thinking about act 3: What?! Already done?!? But...

The first act was full of side quest, almost unbearable. The second was ok. The third...almost inexistant.

[Vandicus]

Felya87 wrote...

Maybe I don't remember well, but the more you go forward in the acts, less are the side quests and less they are meaninful. I remember thinking about act 3: What?! Already done?!? But...

The first act was full of side quest, almost unbearable. The second was ok. The third...almost inexistant.

Sidequests from Act 1 or 2 would typically have resolution in the following Act(s). Act 3 had virtually none since it was the ending Act and had no place to wrap up a newly started quest series. Internal game resolution of questlines was something I felt was a major improvement. Save importing is one way to resolve the quest results in future games, but I found it nice that I could see what happened because of my actions in the same game.


Not sure what you mean by meaningful or not. Way I defined it in my posts was that it was either save imported, brought up in an epilogue, or had some direct impact in game.

[Felya87]

Vandicus wrote...

Felya87 wrote...

Maybe I don't remember well, but the more you go forward in the acts, less are the side quests and less they are meaninful. I remember thinking about act 3: What?! Already done?!? But...

The first act was full of side quest, almost unbearable. The second was ok. The third...almost inexistant.

Sidequests from Act 1 or 2 would typically have resolution in the following Act(s). Act 3 had virtually none since it was the ending Act and had no place to wrap up a newly started quest series. Internal game resolution of questlines was something I felt was a major improvement. Save importing is one way to resolve the quest results in future games, but I found it nice that I could see what happened because of my actions in the same game.


Not sure what you mean by meaningful or not. Way I defined it in my posts was that it was either save imported, brought up in an epilogue, or had some direct impact in game.

I've just put it bad...(English is not my language, so I have some problem...) In third act, some quest don't have a closure, of if they have it, it's bland if not worse. I mean quest as Varric's, or Fenris's. I still don't get them...expecially Fenris...I didn't even undestand we have at least killed his ex-master.  (what?!we have listen him tell about this men for years...and we see him for less than three minutes?!? is he a relative of the Harbringer?!?)

Yeah, there are always the imported saves in the next game, but I find it difficult to find closure to such things, expecially without Hawke and his/her companion...

[Aulis Vaara]

Vandicus wrote...

Could've been dialogue free quests like DA:O. Kill X bandits. Kill 3 wolves. Kill bear. Jeez the level of grind in DA:O was horribad.

You're talking about the first town, which was a tutorial for quests. And while there are some more of those quests in the game, they were both dressed up better, and actual sidequests. I.E. you didn't have to do them to collect gold, and they actually were small compared to the epic main quests. In DAII almost every quest was practically the same size, and perhaps that's part of the problem: no variation. Even in such a tiny detail, variation could make the difference between "the flaws are only details" and "this is boring". Well, in my humble opinion anyway.

[Darth Death]

marktcameron wrote...

You gave us too many quest that just  were so boring and meaningless. Like the one where you have to ask some guard if he likes Aveline Vallen. .Then you have to guard him from 15-20 spawn enemies just to let him know that aveline vallen likes him. It just doesn't make any sense to add that in to the game it add nothing to the story.When people say that  they want it more like dragon age origin they mean they want quest that feel epic grand scale stuff not some little fetch quest here and there.The only quest i liked  in da2 where The Last Straw , Wayward Son and Demands of the Qun.because you made it feel epic it was minginfel it made me want to play the game bit more.

Interestingly enough, I found that particular quest very entertaining, even embarrassing. The fact it conflicted my emotions from awkwardness to joyous celebration shows, well at least to me, it was very well done for a quest, including Hawke's facial expressions adding flavor.  

[Ianamus]

Aveline's personal quest was one of the most fun quests in the game in my opinion. Granted, that is dialogue/story wise, gameplay wise it took part in an area we'd been too 1000x over and had to fight waves of random enemies. But then that is what every quest in the game was like, and it wasn't a particularly erogenous case.

If anything the flaw with Dragon Age 2 was the repetitive areas and combat in the first place, not any particular quest that involved them.

[TheImmortalBeaver]

...of all the quests to pick on, you go after the companion quests? Not sure if troll, or just doesn't like BioWare games in general. The companion missions were some of the best in the game, and I don't think they had any more grinding than DA:O companion missions did. DA2 in general felt pretty grindy in places (particularly the first act) but that's certainly not the game's worst flaw. Repeated areas wins that one.

[Nashimura]

I liked the Aveline, not every quest needs to have you gutting people like fish. My fav part of DA:O was the landsmeet....

[Aulis Vaara]

cJohnOne wrote...

Hate to be pesky but these are the DA3 Inquisition boards not the DA2 boards, ha ha.

Memberating much?

And wrongly at that, criticising what you didn't like in past games is letting the developers know what you don't want in this game.

[philippe willaume]

To be fair companion development was much better in DA:2 than it was in DA:0
yet DA:0 companion managed to work better. and that is DA:2 in a nutshell for me.
plenty of potential and a miss-queue at delivery.

As a poster said before the "ho i found a pair of pants may be a dude in K is looking for it..." was as lame as a sick dog on 3 legs, Closely followed by nightly bandits dispatch.

The mindless hordes of mook are found in every quest. so it is not really a feature of side quest per se.
so yes the side quesst in DA:2 were somewhat boring, repetitive and less agreeable to play than DA:0, but i though the theme was as good an sometime better than DA:0.
phil

[Melca36]

marktcameron wrote...

You gave us too many quest that just  were so boring and meaningless. Like the one where you have to ask some guard if he likes Aveline Vallen. .Then you have to guard him from 15-20 spawn enemies just to let him know that aveline vallen likes him. It just doesn't make any sense to add that in to the game it add nothing to the story.When people say that  they want it more like dragon age origin they mean they want quest that feel epic grand scale stuff not some little fetch quest here and there.The only quest i liked  in da2 where The Last Straw , Wayward Son and Demands of the Qun.because you made it feel epic it was minginfel it made me want to play the game bit more.

Um... Some of us happened to enjoy the Aveline/Donnic quest so that is your opinion only.

[Melca36]

Misterpinky0 wrote...

...of all the quests to pick on, you go after the companion quests? Not sure if troll, or just doesn't like BioWare games in general. The companion missions were some of the best in the game, and I don't think they had any more grinding than DA:O companion missions did. DA2 in general felt pretty grindy in places (particularly the first act) but that's certainly not the game's worst flaw. Repeated areas wins that one.

If not a troll...they are obviously under 21 and cant grasp the purpose of companion quests. <_<