28 réponses à ce sujet

[Gaw_Damnit]

I think most would agree that Singularity didn't offer enough unique advangates to make it a valuable, class-specific power in SP.  Pull covered most of the essential functionality and was accessible to Vanguards and Adepts.

The new redesign does much to make Singularity an impressive power in its own right.  Why not create a version fo the redesign for SP?

[Abraham_uk]

What exactly are those changes to singularity?

[AVPen]

^ These are the updated changes to Singularity (in MP, at least) mentioned in the latest patch:

Chris Priestly wrote...

- Singularity power re-designed: 

• Singularity no longer has a maximum number of charges and will only be destroyed when the time runs out
• Performing a biotic combo on someone floating in the singularity no longer ends the singularity
• Base cooldown changed to 8 seconds
• Base duration of the singularity changed to 8 seconds
• Base power now does 100 points of damage per second to all targets that are in range, even if not floating in the singularity
•  Base power sets up biotic combos on everyone that comes into range (only 1 combo added per enemy per cast of singularity)
• Rank 3 changed to a damage over time bonus (used to be a radius and duration bonus)
• Evolve 1 changed to singularity duration bonus (used to be a hold duration bonus and number of charges increase)
• Evolve 5 changed to damage over time bonus (used to be a radius increase mechanic)
• Evolve 6 now detonates biotic combos when the singularity explodes

And I agree with the OP as well.

Modifié par AVPen, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:28 .

[Wulfram]

Liara would destroy everything?

[sharkboy421]

Wulfram wrote...

Liara would destroy everything?

She pretty much already can solo the game for you.  But still, I would be receptive to having these changes included in SP.

[Abraham_uk]

Wow new singularity rocks if it lives up to those claims.

[Lima54]

 Damn, the new singularity is cool! It stays there, priming every enemy that crosses it, doing DOT until they're flung to the air, and with shockwave, you can prime and detonate multiple targets. During a match in Glacier, I put one singularity downstairs and detonated the entire spawn point with shockwaves.

[ZombieGambit]

I'd also like some of the weapon changes, like the buffs the Eagle, Crusader, Hurricane, Locust, Mattock, Indra, Valkyrie, Argus, Vindicator, Phaeston, Geth Pulse Rifle etc. got. Many of those are really lacking in Single Player. There's just no point in using most of them.

Just because it's a single player game doesn't mean it doesn't need to also be balanced. It's quite annoying when almost all the DLC weapons weigh the same and yet most do vastly less damage than their vanilla counterparts.

[JaegerBane]

ZombieGambit wrote...

I'd also like some of the weapon changes, like the buffs the Eagle, Crusader, Hurricane, Locust, Mattock, Indra, Valkyrie, Argus, Vindicator, Phaeston, Geth Pulse Rifle etc. got. Many of those are really lacking in Single Player. There's just no point in using most of them.

Just because it's a single player game doesn't mean it doesn't need to also be balanced. It's quite annoying when almost all the DLC weapons weigh the same and yet most do vastly less damage than their vanilla counterparts.

+1. I can't really think of any good reason why these balance changes aren't added to SP. It just seems totally silly to keep them in MP, and its largely this type of thing which was why MP got such a hostile reception in the first place.

The argument that 'shepard doesn't need any boosts as he already destroys singleplayer' is a non-argument. If he's so strong that he his potency won't be affected by a buff, then what would keeping it from him gain?

That said, I don't really understand the point about DLC weapons doing less damage than vanilla stuff. That patently isn't true (Punisher vs Tempest? Harrier vs Mattock? PR High-power mode vs... anything in the vanilla AR list?)

[Wulfram]

SP has:
Easy comboes because of squadmates
Shepard with a far greater variety of powers
All weapons used will be automatically at 5 or 10 depending on whether it's NG+
A very different enemy mix than higher levels of MP - lots more enemies with health
Time dilation

So I don't think it's necessarily all that much of a great idea to translate MP changes wholesale to SP. The balance is fundamentally different, and it's annoying if your favoured strategy gets nerfed because MPers have been complaining.

Singularity isn't actually all that bad in SP - the only real problem with it is that Pull does basically the same job better, and that if you really want it then Liara does it just as well.

Modifié par Wulfram, 05 octobre 2012 - 01:22 .

[JaegerBane]

Wulfram wrote...
So I don't think it's necessarily all that much of a great idea to translate MP changes wholesale to SP. The balance is fundamentally different, and it's annoying if your favoured strategy gets nerfed because MPers have been complaining.

The point being made is that a) balance matters less in SP and there is no tangible benefit to keeping it out of SP. Hence, the idea that the 'balance' would be comprimised in SP lacks relevance nor likelihood.

Singularity isn't actually all that bad in SP - the only real problem with it is that Pull does basically the same job better, and that if you really want it then Liara does it just as well.

I'd actually argue the opposite - that Singualrity does Pull's job, bit better - but the distinction is moot. The point is, as you say, that we have two powers doing the same thing, which just doesn't make sense, and a set of updates that would fix that, but they're not going to be made available.

No matter how you slice it, the approach that Bioware have taken here is really bad. I actually have a fair amount of sympathy for the amount of grief that Bioware get, considering their actions - as a company they tend to engage more with the fans than most and are far more open to feedback then most, but some of the time they create problems for themselves with daft ideas like this. This approach was *never* going to garner any support from the fans.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

They should've applied the new Singularity to SP, if anything, to make it different from Pull. Singularity might be better in a purely functional sense, but on a practical level, Pull's speed makes it far more effective... Basically, SP's Singularity is pretty much unchanged from ME2, but ME2's Singularity's no good anymore b/c ME3's levels are too big and everything moves too fast.

[mr_arizona2424]

They need to give us all the updated powers in SP that MP got.
Shockwave would be so much better with it's new base distance and Energy drain giving 40% DR instead 15% in SP.
Plus Tech armor has a better cooldown in MP then SP.
Also give us all those weapon buffs. No nerfs.

[Forst1999]

ZombieGambit wrote...

I'd also like some of the weapon changes, like the buffs the Eagle, Crusader, Hurricane, Locust, Mattock, Indra, Valkyrie, Argus, Vindicator, Phaeston, Geth Pulse Rifle etc. got. Many of those are really lacking in Single Player. There's just no point in using most of them.

Just because it's a single player game doesn't mean it doesn't need to also be balanced. It's quite annoying when almost all the DLC weapons weigh the same and yet most do vastly less damage than their vanilla counterparts.

And here is the problem with just copying the MP balance changes to SP. Low-damage/High-Speed weapons may have lacked in MP, but in SP they can be devastating (just put explosive burst indendiary ammo on them). So balancing SP isn't as easy as "just do the same thing like in MP".
That doesn't really apply to Singularity though. I would have liked to see the change making it's way to SP. Right now playing an Adept, would have been interesting.

[RedCaesar97]

mr_arizona2424 wrote...

They need to give us all the updated powers in SP that MP got. 
Shockwave would be so much better with it's new base distance and Energy drain giving 40% DR instead 15% in SP.
Plus Tech armor has a better cooldown in MP then SP.
Also give us all those weapon buffs. No nerfs.

I think Forst1999 said it best:

Forst1999 wrote...
And here is the problem with just copying the MP balance changes to SP. Low-damage/High-Speed weapons may have lacked in MP, but in SP they can be devastating (just put explosive burst indendiary ammo on them). So balancing SP isn't as easy as "just do the same thing like in MP".

Also, you want the weapon buffs, but not the nerfs? You either want all the balance changes or none at all. Sorry, but I do not see a middle ground. You cannot pick and choose your changes.

And to continue Forst1999's line of thinking, some power balance changes would absolutely break single player. Powers like Tech Armor, Barrier, and Fortification gained damage protection. A Sentinel with Tech Armor and Barrier as a bonus power would be near unkillable (or maybe completely unkillable, depending on the numbers). 

Also Adrenaline Rush got a buff to the evolutions that provide damage protection and shield recharge. In multiplayer that balance works, but in single player it does not since Adrenaline Rush has time dilation in single player which would knock that balance out of whack. 

Also, Sabotage rank 6 Tech Vulnerability is 50% instead of 100% in multiplayer. Not sure how that would affect the Engineer and Infiltrator in single player since that power and evolution is the only tech power that can possibly compete with biotics for power combo kills.

[ZombieGambit]

Forst1999 wrote...

ZombieGambit wrote...

I'd also like some of the weapon changes, like the buffs the Eagle, Crusader, Hurricane, Locust, Mattock, Indra, Valkyrie, Argus, Vindicator, Phaeston, Geth Pulse Rifle etc. got. Many of those are really lacking in Single Player. There's just no point in using most of them.

Just because it's a single player game doesn't mean it doesn't need to also be balanced. It's quite annoying when almost all the DLC weapons weigh the same and yet most do vastly less damage than their vanilla counterparts.

And here is the problem with just copying the MP balance changes to SP. Low-damage/High-Speed weapons may have lacked in MP, but in SP they can be devastating (just put explosive burst indendiary ammo on them). So balancing SP isn't as easy as "just do the same thing like in MP".
That doesn't really apply to Singularity though. I would have liked to see the change making it's way to SP. Right now playing an Adept, would have been interesting.

Yeah, forget balancing weapons because the Soldier and Vanguard have Incediary Ammo...

Just because you can make a weapon decent doesn't mean that weapon is good, since there's almost always a better choice, like why use the Argus if you have the Vindicator or why use Locust when you have the Tempest etc.

In SP weapons don't have rarity to define how good they're supposed to be so technically they should all be viable, but good luck using most weapons on Insanity without a ton of ammo powers or relying on powers to do most of the work.

Most of the DLC weapons are awful and weigh too much, particularly the Collector's Edition weapons. Why pay extra if only one weapon is good (Valiant) and one is decent (Hurricane) if they had the MP balance changes they'd all be good.

[ZombieGambit]

Double post...

Modifié par ZombieGambit, 05 octobre 2012 - 08:28 .

[capn233]

I think they could have brought some of the balance changes to SP in waves with the patches.

They could also have bumped up enemy health, accuracy, etc on Insanity to keep it interesting and balanced. Of course more enemies at once would be better, but is not a real possibility.

Modifié par capn233, 06 octobre 2012 - 02:39 .

[JaegerBane]

ZombieGambit wrote...
Most of the DLC weapons are awful and weigh too much, particularly the Collector's Edition weapons. Why pay extra if only one weapon is good (Valiant) and one is decent (Hurricane) if they had the MP balance changes they'd all be good.

I'm not sure this is accurate - aside from the Eagle, Crusader, Valkyrie and Argus, the majority of the DLC weapons are actually significantly better than their vanilla counterparts (Particle Rifle, Chakram, Raider, the entire Firefight Pack... as well as the Valiant and Hurricane you mention).

That said, I don't understand why the gun balance is different in the first place. If something didn't work and needed changed in MP, it's difficult to understand why it wouldn't need fixed in SP.

TBH I don't understand why they draw a difference between the two game modes - modding the Coalesced.ini affects both modes, so its a bit weird balance changes affect only one.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 06 octobre 2012 - 10:01 .

[Athenau]

The weapon balance in SP is retarded. You have a handful of DLC weapons, which are ten times better than anything in vanilla and a bunch of mostly useless crap that no one ever wants to use unless they have no choice.

It's really irritating that they spend so much time fine tuning the MP balance and ignoring SP, when it would take literally zero effort to port it over with each patch release. I'd gladly take the MP changes, nerfs and all, if it mean that more of ME3's gigantic arsenal was viable in SP.

[JaegerBane]

Athenau wrote...
It's really irritating that they spend so much time fine tuning the MP balance and ignoring SP, when it would take literally zero effort to port it over with each patch release. I'd gladly take the MP changes, nerfs and all, if it mean that more of ME3's gigantic arsenal was viable in SP.

I think that's the part that annoys me more than anything else - the fact that the effort to balance all this stuff has already been made, but they just choose to withold it from SP. I don't know whether this is just part of some cack-handed idea to try and make people play MP more (since there's more room to make money on there), but from a technical standpoint, there shouldn't be any reason why the buffs and nerfs aren't ported over.

I mean, hell, changes to the SP from the client side affect MP by accident, so its a little difficult to believe that there's some sort of technical reason why it would take any effort at all to port these changes over to MP.

[capn233]

JaegerBane wrote...

I mean, hell, changes to the SP from the client side affect MP by accident, so its a little difficult to believe that there's some sort of technical reason why it would take any effort at all to port these changes over to MP.

All the weekly balance changes just take rewriting a few values in the coalesced file.  Something like the Singularity change would take more, but I doubt much more effort than it takes to patch the three characters in MP.

[JaegerBane]

capn233 wrote...
All the weekly balance changes just take rewriting a few values in the coalesced file.  Something like the Singularity change would take more, but I doubt much more effort than it takes to patch the three characters in MP.

That's a fair point - I was more getting at the fact that they have precious few excuses to withold these changes from SP when the effort to make them has already been made.

I could understand them saying 'sorry guys, we agree Singularity needs a look at, but we just don't have time to do it' - I get that, they're busy, they have a ton of work to do, everyone has to deal with priorities and all that. But when they effectively say 'Yeah, Singularity sucked, so we fixed it... but we're only doing it for MP, you SP guys can go suck lemons'.... well, its just not something that was ever going to go down well.