901 réponses à ce sujet

[UpirNoir]

Doommarine23 wrote...
I'm barely keeping track of this thread, but from what I skimmed, its cause its "stupid" or "lore"

Those are not legimatiate reasons, if they are a fun and interesting race that has unique gameplay oppertunties and provides fun and variety for players, that is good enough. Lore does not matter in a loose MP and stupid is just an opinion.

You can argue saying they would be fun is also an opinion, but regardless. I don't see how those are stellar reasons for not including it.

Well, your oppinion that lore is not a legitimate reason is just that, your oppinion. In my oppinion it is a legitimate reason. This is a Mass Effect game after all and it is settled within the established Mass Effect Universe. So going ahead and disregarding the "rules" of this universe is an argueable thing.

[OblivionDawn]

Doommarine23 wrote...

tictactucrac wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

tictactucrac wrote...

I'm not. Don't play them if you want to be logical.

But try to remember that it's just a game.

Nope. You, don't play the game if you are not satisfied to not see volus. This is what would have happen.

Its what would happen if Bioware felt obligated to cater to your delusion of entitlement.

But as far as I can tell, they don't. So enjoy seeing the Volus.

It's not MINE. Have a problem with ME ? There are more than 50% people who don't want volus in Multiplayer.


"But as far as I can tell, they don't. So enjoy seeing the Volus."


Okay, enjoy the war, enjoy racism, enjoy pedobear, they exist. Enjoy them.

What the hell does war, racism and pedophilia have to do with videogames.

Who knows. He's using made up statistics and non-sequiturs to make up for his lack of a real argument.

Oh well. This is a pointless "debate" anyway. I'm leaving this thread now, because it is what it is, and it's going to be awesome.

Modifié par OblivionDawn, 04 octobre 2012 - 10:18 .

[tictactucrac]

Doommarine23 wrote...

tictactucrac wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

tictactucrac wrote...

I'm not. Don't play them if you want to be logical.

But try to remember that it's just a game.

Nope. You, don't play the game if you are not satisfied to not see volus. This is what would have happen.

Its what would happen if Bioware felt obligated to cater to your delusion of entitlement.

But as far as I can tell, they don't. So enjoy seeing the Volus.

It's not MINE. Have a problem with ME ? There are more than 50% people who don't want volus in Multiplayer.


"But as far as I can tell, they don't. So enjoy seeing the Volus."


Okay, enjoy the war, enjoy racism, enjoy pedobear, they exist. Enjoy them.

What the hell does war, racism and pedophilia have to do with videogames.

People always say that want they have nothing more to say. These are simple exemples. I can bring others. Here is war, racism and pedobear. Argument please, i'm waiting.

[Rifneno]

Doommarine23 wrote...

adamjmorgan wrote...

"Legitimate" reason: The volus homeworld is at 60atm. That's 840psi. That's nearly 2,000 feet under water. "Explosive decompression" doesn't even describe what would happen.

If we're going to use realism, lets ignore that they're a fictional race using fictional technology in a fictional universe.
Lets also ignore things such as bleeding out, a very real possibility in realism.

So no, you can't use realism as an argument, many things in this game series is not realistic.

This is the kind of crap we have defending playable volus.  "The game isn't PERFECTLY realistic in every aspect, so we might as well be able to shapeshift into unicorns and kill Reapers with the power of love."

[Atrumitos]

Yeah I mean better die than even try to wage war against the reapers somehow. lol

I don't care. They might as well bring carebears to the MP. If they're fun, I'll like it. I think I'll start playing volus when and if they come out, simply out of spite lol. Hell I'll return to the game for that reason alone! Nah, I'm returning for the collectors and the turian jumpjets ;P

[tfoltz]

I want the entire game to be made up of volus.

[Happy Shepard]

Fun fact, when somebody posts about Prothean character ideas, BSN goes ape**** about lore. When it's about Volus? Not so much. They're cute and all.

Modifié par Happy Shepard, 04 octobre 2012 - 10:17 .

[-JP-]

"You there, Turian! Where the hell is that Volus soldier?"
"I think he had to go look at the galactic market, stocks, shares, you know. Oh no, there he is. He was just standing behind that pebble."

[Doommarine23]

I gave you an argument that lore should not completely restrict multiplayer, that Volus is not completely implausible (because a desperate race getting slaughtered as everyone else falls around them would never ever have a military, let alone before this all happens. Conflict is an inevitable part of our lives, and all the races of Mass Effect think like we do. In other words, they have a military).

So basically, you're complaining of realism, something the series already lacks, lore which is something the multiplayer is loose on, and than just inane black and white close minded belief that volus would never ever ever ever, find a way to fight.

There is your argument.

Rifneno wrote...

Doommarine23 wrote...

adamjmorgan wrote...

"Legitimate" reason: The volus homeworld is at 60atm. That's 840psi. That's nearly 2,000 feet under water. "Explosive decompression" doesn't even describe what would happen. 

If we're going to use realism, lets ignore that they're a fictional race using fictional technology in a fictional universe.
Lets also ignore things such as bleeding out, a very real possibility in realism.

So no, you can't use realism as an argument, many things in this game series is not realistic.

This is the kind of crap we have defending playable volus.  "The game isn't PERFECTLY realistic in every aspect, so we might as well be able to shapeshift into unicorns and kill Reapers with the power of love."

I tell you that realism can't be a trump card, so your move is to ignore or deflect what I say.
You want realistic exploding voluses? I want realistic bleeding out people and perma death.

You can't argue realism without going all the way on it. Your argument is completely double edged.

Modifié par Doommarine23, 04 octobre 2012 - 10:17 .

[-Severian-]

Fine. Replace the Red Health bar with a Yellow Armor bar.

"The Volus are well aware of their susceptibility to damage, thanks to their highly pressurized suits. As a result, the Volus have optimized Quarian shield technology - designed for maximum protection from incoming ballistics to avoid penetration of the actual armor - and heavily plated their mechanically-augmented combat suits with armor. In the rare event of a shield failure or overload, the Volus' unique combat suit protects its wearer with advanced ablative technology, slowly replaced through Omni-Fabrication."

[etm125]

I seem to remember another tictactucrac thread a few weeks ago about something different devolving into both sides just name calling. You seem to have a knack for starting flame wars, sir. Something about coming from the French BSN because it's empty.

[Rifneno]

Atrumitos wrote...

Yeah I mean better die than even try to wage war against the reapers somehow. lol

I don't care. They might as well bring carebears to the MP. If they're fun, I'll like it. I think I'll start playing volus when and if they come out, simply out of spite lol. Hell I'll return to the game for that reason alone! Nah, I'm returning for the collectors and the turian jumpjets ;P

No, nobody's saying that volus won't fight.  Of course they'll fight.  Remember that flashback in From Ashes where some protheans were attacking a Reaper Destroyer with rifles?  It's exactly like that.  They'll try to defend themselves but there's no way in hell they can pull off the kinds of missions we do with our krogan battlemasters and asari justicars and such.  We're playing the best of the best from the greatest militaries.  Our enemies are balanced around us playing the best of the best characters.  Volus can't keep up, and I mean that in every sense of the phrase.

[UpirNoir]

APEX KING19 wrote...

The multiplayer is designed to be fun for people to play free from the constraints of single player lore.

I disagree. Apart from the fact that it is a Mass Effect game and not "Co-op Shooter with powers", the fact that the Multiplayer ties in directly with the Singleplayer (Promotions --> Singleplayer War Assets) kind of kills your argument. You might not care about lore in the MP, but a lot of people do, and saying it is designed to be free from lore is in no way supported by the facts.

[ntrisley]

Atrumitos wrote...

Yeah I mean better die than even try to wage war against the reapers somehow. lol

They do that through their fleets. Y'know, that whole "Volus Bombing Squadron" war asset you get in SP?

Volus prefer airpower in conflicts, counting on turians for ground
support. They maintain several flotillas of heavy-bomber frigates
capable of warfare in any atmosphere.
The volus have only produced one dreadnought, the Kwunu, named
after the diplomat who negotiated their client-race status with the
turians. The Kwunu is the only volus ship of its class, but it is
remarkably well-armed. Its broadside cannons and main gun are all Thanix
Magnetic-Hydrodynamic Weapons. A turian general touring the Kwunu after
its maiden system-voyage enthusiastically declared that the ship could
"char a planet three times over". While its construction was funded
entirely by the Elkoss Combine corporation, the dreadnought was jointly
gifted to the Vol Protectorate and Turian Hierarchy upon completion.

[DESTRAUDO]

Until bioware bring in a system to force the people who do not want volus to play volus, then their dislike of them is of no importance. Plenty of people, myself included would love to see the volus brought in.

If someone has a big problem playing with volus in a lobby they can exercise their democratic right to vote to kick the volus, or their right to leave the lobby in protest.

To the people having a freakout about the volus exploding lets try and keep something in mind.

This is a videogame, and a videogame set in a world of science fiction. Your character can be shot in the head with a sniper rifle, take some medi gel, and be fine. The sudden application of serious business call in a doctor medical effects with a character you do not like is a little unfair.

It also is worth mentioning that using the power of science fiction we could get around the problem of the exploding. Like reserve shield generators built into the specialized military suit that flick into place over a suit breach nanoseconds after a puncture, which is then sealed by an internally deployed resin, or fast fabrication system ala an omniblade, which as a whole acts to prevent the volus body being explosified, but equally is not designed to prevent them being injured.

[Rifneno]

-Severian- wrote...

Fine. Replace the Red Health bar with a Yellow Armor bar.

"The Volus are well aware of their susceptibility to damage, thanks to their highly pressurized suits. As a result, the Volus have optimized Quarian shield technology - designed for maximum protection from incoming ballistics to avoid penetration of the actual armor - and heavily plated their mechanically-augmented combat suits with armor. In the rare event of a shield failure or overload, the Volus' unique combat suit protects its wearer with advanced ablative technology, slowly replaced through Omni-Fabrication."

So we have a race that moves the speed of a tortoise with 3 broken legs, and you want to cover them in tons of heavy armor?  Good luck outrunning that banshee.  Hell, good luck moving your arm to fire your weapon.

[adamjmorgan]

Doommarine23 wrote...

adamjmorgan wrote...

"Legitimate" reason: The volus homeworld is at 60atm. That's 840psi. That's nearly 2,000 feet under water. "Explosive decompression" doesn't even describe what would happen.

If we're going to use realism, lets ignore that they're a fictional race using fictional technology in a fictional universe.
Lets also ignore things such as bleeding out, a very real possibility in realism.

So no, you can't use realism as an argument, many things in this game series is not realistic.

When the fiction of the universe is based on the very plausible evolution of existing science (like most of Asimov's sci-fi) then yes, you definitely can argue realism.  The ME universe is not about disregarding the realities of physics; there are extensive codex entries detailing how they went about solving the actual physics issues surrounding things like FTL communication.  If they weren't interested in maintaining the facade of realism, then they would've just said "Uh, yea, you just like talk into this box and it comes out the other box, like really fast and stuff."

Without extensive "explaining" how ME-level technology is suddenly able to create a material dense and strong enough to survive that level of pressure and yet still be only centimeters thick and why that material isn't deployed as armor for the OTHER races which would be MUCH MORE able to efficiently use it, Volus in front-line combat is just too much for me, sorry.

[Doommarine23]

UpirNoir wrote...

APEX KING19 wrote...

The multiplayer is designed to be fun for people to play free from the constraints of single player lore.

I disagree. Apart from the fact that it is a Mass Effect game and not "Co-op Shooter with powers", the fact that the Multiplayer ties in directly with the Singleplayer (Promotions --> Singleplayer War Assets) kind of kills your argument. You might not care about lore in the MP, but a lot of people do, and saying it is designed to be free from lore is in no way supported by the facts.

If you're going to give so much of a hoot about lore, I want to know why so many things are flakey on lore.

Kill Geth? Still got em, Kill Quarians? got dem too.

You can use your trump card of "its still canon" or "bioware's canon" but Mass Effect never really had a canon in that sense, its not lore friendly to my expierence if those races are alive in multiplayer.
Hell, Samara mentions Justicars are held up at Thessia, defending it, why are they fighting with N7 rag-tags?
Hell, why are Turians? They're all fighting at Palaven.

Lots are things are flakey and loose, you can weave them together if you want, but my point remains,  this is not a tight knot knit lore connection and never will be.

Bioware are professionals, they can certainly explain Volus troops, they explained a living Prothean in "From Ashes" they can explain something as minor as a Volus soldier in MP.

adamjmorgan wrote...

When the fiction of the universe is based on the very plausible evolution of existing science (like most of Asimov's sci-fi) then yes, you definitely can argue realism.  The ME universe is not about disregarding the realities of physics; there are extensive codex entries detailing how they went about solving the actual physics issues surrounding things like FTL communication.  If they weren't interested in maintaining the facade of realism, then they would've just said "Uh, yea, you just like talk into this box and it comes out the other box, like really fast and stuff."

Without extensive "explaining" how ME-level technology is suddenly able to create a material dense and strong enough to survive that level of pressure and yet still be only centimeters thick and why that material isn't deployed as armor for the OTHER races which would be MUCH MORE able to efficiently use it, Volus in front-line combat is just too much for me, sorry.

Look, I hate to just make a small argument in response, because it really makes me feel like a cop-out, but I'll put it bluntly.  This is a science-fiction with fictionious materials that will problaby never happen in real life, things like Biotics will problaby never happen, or happen in completely different ways, they are not scientists and their job is to explain it in a belieable way for us to digest it.

Things like Reapers are completely fictional alien beings,  their technology is completely alien, Prothean technology, the beacon that started the entire series, is completely fictionious.

You can not argue that realism and science realism is a complete defining factor of the story and of a multiplayer mode. There is also no real extensive explanations to quite a bit of this stuff you mention, most having just a paragraph or two in their codex.

Modifié par Doommarine23, 04 octobre 2012 - 10:24 .

[tictactucrac]

etm125 wrote...

I seem to remember another tictactucrac thread a few weeks ago about something different devolving into both sides just name calling. You seem to have a knack for starting flame wars, sir. Something about coming from the French BSN because it's empty.

I started nothing, look at my post, it is cool. YOu all answered with your "leave the game if you don't like we don't want people like you". And go out with your "oh french ? I understand", idiot racist guy.

[darthnick427]

But.....Great wind.....Biotic God....

[Yajuu Omoi]

Doommarine23 wrote...

I gave you an argument that lore should not completely restrict multiplayer, that Volus is not completely implausible (because a desperate race getting slaughtered as everyone else falls around them would never ever have a military, let alone before this all happens. Conflict is an inevitable part of our lives, and all the races of Mass Effect think like we do. In other words, they have a military).

So basically, you're complaining of realism, something the series already lacks, lore which is something the multiplayer is loose on, and than just inane black and white close minded belief that volus would never ever ever ever, find a way to fight.

There is your argument.

Rifneno wrote...

Doommarine23 wrote...

adamjmorgan wrote...

"Legitimate" reason: The volus homeworld is at 60atm. That's 840psi. That's nearly 2,000 feet under water. "Explosive decompression" doesn't even describe what would happen. 

If we're going to use realism, lets ignore that they're a fictional race using fictional technology in a fictional universe.
Lets also ignore things such as bleeding out, a very real possibility in realism.

So no, you can't use realism as an argument, many things in this game series is not realistic.

This is the kind of crap we have defending playable volus.  "The game isn't PERFECTLY realistic in every aspect, so we might as well be able to shapeshift into unicorns and kill Reapers with the power of love."

I tell you that realism can't be a trump card, so your move is to ignore or deflect what I say.
You want realistic exploding voluses? I want realistic bleeding out people and perma death.

You can't argue realism without going all the way on it. Your argument is completely double edged.

I don't see how he's talking about real life here.

IN THE GAME, a Volus would EXPLODE if their suit was to be punctured.
So IN THE GAME, a Volus being on the frontlines is a bad idea and not feasable as they stand.
IN THE GAME, having Volus in the MP as things stand does not make sense.

/arguement

[-Severian-]

Rifneno wrote...

-Severian- wrote...

Fine. Replace the Red Health bar with a Yellow Armor bar.

"The Volus are well aware of their susceptibility to damage, thanks to their highly pressurized suits. As a result, the Volus have optimized Quarian shield technology - designed for maximum protection from incoming ballistics to avoid penetration of the actual armor - and heavily plated their mechanically-augmented combat suits with armor. In the rare event of a shield failure or overload, the Volus' unique combat suit protects its wearer with advanced ablative technology, slowly replaced through Omni-Fabrication."

So we have a race that moves the speed of a tortoise with 3 broken legs, and you want to cover them in tons of heavy armor?  Good luck outrunning that banshee.  Hell, good luck moving your arm to fire your weapon.

You missed the "mechanically-augmented" part. Heavily-motorised combat suits, cybernetic implants, synthetic muscle woven underneath the armor itself? The Volus'd be well aware that they're not inherently physcially adept, and would compensate with advanced technology. Excluding the fact that the inherent point of "Mass Effect" is Eezo's ability to manipulate weight and mass - making an argument for "heavy" armor kind of moot.

[tictactucrac]

DESTRAUDO wrote...

Until bioware bring in a system to force the people who do not want volus to play volus, then their dislike of them is of no importance. Plenty of people, myself included would love to see the volus brought in.

I would have see you as a pokemon. But it can't be, because it's pokemon. Why the fock "because i think it could be fun and i don't give a **** about lore" would be more legitimate than the lore itself  ? It IS NOT. 

[Doommarine23]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...
I don't see how he's talking about real life here.

IN THE GAME, a Volus would EXPLODE if their suit was to be punctured.
So IN THE GAME, a Volus being on the frontlines is a bad idea and not feasable as they stand.
IN THE GAME, having Volus in the MP as things stand does not make sense.

/arguement

You realize that arguing realism is about making sure things are realistic, therefor pretaining to a believable and realistic world, as in, being like the real world.

[Rifneno]

Doommarine23 wrote...

Bioware are professionals, they can certainly explain Volus troops, they explained a living Prothean in "From Ashes" they can explain something as minor as a Volus soldier in MP.

LOL.  I remember you now.  You were the guy arguing that the carnifex and piranha nerfs HAD to be the right thing to do because how dare we question BW's omniscience.  LOL again.

Hey bud, remember that explanation they gave for why the typhoon spits out spent shell casings even though guns in ME don't work that way?  Neither does anyone else, because they never explained it.  They just suck at their own lore apparently.