132 réponses à ce sujet

[Aytanay]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Frustration does not require lack of success. And the two are certainly not the same. Geth are cheap because of their reliance on cheap tactics, simple as that. They ignore cover/LoS rules that other factions follow (at least to some extent) and rely ENTIRELY on stunlocking players (that is, taking control from the players' hands).

This is artificial difficulty. When a hunter stunlocks you to death (because their shots stop you from doing EVERYTHING and they refire before the previous stunlock wears off) that is artificial difficulty. It has nothing to do with presenting a challenge to the player, it is simply taking control from them and saying "ok, you can spend some time on the floor until an ally rescues you". Same deal when a Geth Rocket Trooper triple-rockets you to death from full health and shields. 

That's exactly what I feel about Geth, and it's been a long time since I got fed up and when I host I don't choose U/U only because I don't want to play against geths.. my favo map is Glacier (short, easy to go around, no enemy shooting down at you from weird angles and in Platinum it's easy and smooth camping) and I usually play against cerberus there just cause it's faster and less stressful, when I'm on the mood to kill banshees I'd change to reaper, but I'm never on the mood to voluntarily kill geths.. even with using a krogan vanguard they are still annoying (much less annoying, sometimes fun to break their necks with a heavy melee.. but still annoying). And I never realized primes used to stagger the player (except by the punch) untill I read this. Probably because I always focus on taking out the drone and turrets so the prime stays clean and dies without much problem.. it's just stupid to let that turret and drone standing there.. it's obvious they're gonna drain you. Anyway, what I really hate about the geth are the hunters (not because they appear out of nowhere if you're focusing on some other enemy, but because they appear out of nowhere shooting that damn shotgun that doesn't let you do anything afterwards. Multiple rockets are annoying but that shotgun.. god I hate that... so yea.. unless it's platinum I'm almost never against geth.
Just adding one more thing: they are easier to kill since they usually gather to move towards the player and if you have something like scorpion (what I usually bring around for phantoms too) they are just easily dead, but then again, when noone notices, that damn hunter comes from behind you or even from the side and before you can do something.. you really can't do anything anymore cause your stunned... ><
Oh yea.. and primes can be amazingly silent sometimes.. that still amazes me.. banshees walking still do that deep breath sound, but that prime really surprised me.. I think he was playing a hunter.. approached from the back, silently, but since he got no shotgun, he sent those missiles then I saw him, shortly before falling to ground.. It's funny how nobody in the squad notices those hunters and sneaky primes when you need the most. Maybe because they are too busy wanting to get rid of the masses approaching and burning you to death.. yea.. that might be it.

ZoM_Head wrote...

Rather have 4 Banshees chase me around the map and forcing em to be on
my toes, thinking ahead and communicating with my squad, than 2 rocket
troopers or hunters.

Agreed.. but that's dangerous.. they might actually put 4 banshees next.. that would be.. dangerous.. if you don't have missiles left and no ammo packs and your power isn't effective against them.. had problems with something similar against 2 banshees and I was the last one alive, no medigel, no missile, no healing pack, with a paladin and energy drain wasn't doing much damage but being enough to prevent warp from killing me, had to keep chilling her cause no incinerate, using an uneffective weapon which I don't remember which was, and one banshee kept covering for the other one to recover shields when charging.. when I finally got one of them to half armour the other one magnetic-handed me.. that was.. can't find a word for that.. D=

Jetblackmoon wrote...

For Pyros - if they can't be grabbed, they shouldn't be able to dodge powers. Fair balancing, I'd say.

Yea.. they should not

Gah.. I hate geth..

[sareth_65536]

Lord_Sirian wrote...
 If you're going to attempt to call me a liar then at least provide some arguments to support your claim.

they can't stunlock to death unless you allowed him to melee you which is your fault. 
moreover hunter stunlock simply does not exist on characters with dodge. This also applies to prime as they have the same type of stuns.
Run from two hunters
Use a power after stun before he shoots second shot
Use a power after first shot and dodge second hunter

SavagelyEpic wrote...

LOL. Idiocy at it's finest.

Want a test? I'll give you a test.

Lone hunter. One bar of health left. No shields. Last enemy. I have full health/shields/ammo.

Shoots me. Stunlock. DAMNIT MAN JUST SHOOT ALREADY HE HAS ONE BAR OF HEALTH LEFT

Shoots me again. Stunlock. FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE ALL I NEED TO DO IS GET ONE BLOODY SHOT OFF

Shoots me again. Stunlock. JUST PULL THE DAMN TRIGGER!

Shoots me again. TEAM MEMBER OFFLINE. MISSION SCRUBBED. WE'RE OUTTA HERE.

four shots? You must have been afking.
Also you say that you couldn't take down a one bar of health from a regular enemy which you clearly see thanks to the last enemy marker. That explains what kind of players are still complaining.

[Epsilon330]

My N7 Destroyer laughs at their petty attempts at success.
But with all other classes, I agree. Even on Silver as a Turian or Salarian, it's like I've walked into Gold with a LV1 Drelldept. They've been broken since Rebellion.

[KiraTsukasa]

I played against geth several times last night and had zero problems. I don't know what you guys are talking about.

[Sihmm]

sareth_65536 wrote...

they can't stunlock to death unless you allowed him to melee you which is your fault. 
moreover hunter stunlock simply does not exist on characters with dodge. This also applies to prime as they have the same type of stuns.
Run from two hunters
Use a power after stun before he shoots second shot
Use a power after first shot and dodge second hunter

Hunters fire a two-shot volley when they come out of stealth, which stuns a fraction of a second less than the refire time between volleys.  You can survive by having enough health and shields to absorb the 800+ damage each shot does, by the Hunter missing at least one shot, by the Hunter delaying or missing its refire (the AI is inconsistent), or by getting behind cover.  You can sometimes survive by staggering the Hunter, but this is inconsistent as sometimes the Hunter will still shoot despite being staggered.  Often it's not the Hunter that kills you, but the fact that you're healthgated and stunned for a stray shot from anything else to finish off.

On-host given normal shield values it's inconsistent but usually do-able providing you're facing one hunter and/or the dice rolls your way.  Off-host, it's wildly inconsistent because the window of opportunity to react is so small that lag can remove it entirely.  Being "stun-locked" - as in being unable to use any abilities (including firing/reloading) despite spamming the key while being attacked - against Hunters/Primes is a definite feature of playing off-host.  I'm pretty sure I've had it happen to me on-host as well, though I couldn't explain why (and I also know that most of the time on-host I have a brief opportunity to escape after the first volley).  It's also quite possible to successfully evade the killing blow by dodging behind cover at the earliest opportunity only for a killing blow to hit through the wall or around the corner anyway.

For most characters most of the time - not to mention that 3/4ths of players in any-given game are off-host - being hit by a full hunter GPS volley out of cloak means being healthgated and stunned.  That's just one point of damage away from being "stunned to death", and it's not like the Geth are lacking the ability to deliver that one final blow before a player can respond, rendering the argument somewhat semantic: a single geth hunter can (inconsistently, but often) effectively kill a player before they can respond, even if the player saw them coming and opened fire/used controlling abilities from a long way off.

Geth have a surfeit of abilities that fire fast, fire accurately, fire over very long distances and through the smallest gaps (or in the case of turrets, appear instantly behind the player), and even track the player.  In that kind of environment being healthgated and stunned is rarely anything less than equivalent to instant death.


(For the record I still (grudgingly) play U/U, still play against Geth with far less than ideal setups and still get full extractions almost every time, and personally can deal with pretty much everything the Geth throw at me.  But it takes FAR more effort and attention and ridiculous reaction speeds than playing against the other factions and I enjoy it almost never.)

Modifié par Sihmm, 05 octobre 2012 - 03:32 .

[sareth_65536]

Lord_Sirian wrote...
When I talk of hunter/prime stunlock I talk based on my own in-game experience. 

So do I. Even bad hosts always allowed me to run between shots. A power may sometimes fail, but it usually happens with especially bad hosts when you start to desync teleport occasionaly.

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Oh and the baseless assertions and thinly veiled insults about lack of player skill make me laugh, but also make me more likely to ignore you. I'm not the best player of all time, but I'm not a n00b who doesn't know how to play either. So kindly take your condescending tone somewhere else. 

The second part wasn't for you, but it sounded... too generally maybe. It wasn't intended:crying:

Sihmm wrote...
 Often it's not the Hunter that kills you, but the fact that you're healthgated and stunned for a stray shot from anything else to finish off. 

this may happen if you are catched in an open field without a cover nearby. I wouldn't say it's a clearly hunter issue

Sihmm wrote...
But it takes FAR more effort and attention and ridiculous reaction speeds than playing against the other factions and I enjoy it almost never.

this reasoning I can understand
Saying "wtf cheap stunlock everywhere, I will never play anymore!" still looks weird for me

Modifié par sareth_65536, 05 octobre 2012 - 04:03 .

[Sihmm]

sareth_65536 wrote...

Sihmm wrote...
 Often it's not the Hunter that kills you, but the fact that you're healthgated and stunned for a stray shot from anything else to finish off. 

this may happen if you are catched in an open field without a cover nearby. I wouldn't say it's a clearly hunter issue

"Hunter issue"? - well, I just wanted to comment specifically on the "stunlocked to death" idea without particularly expressing an opinion on balance or fairness or whatever.  Whether it's an issue is another discussion.  But yeah, as regards "open field without cover", you can quite easily be killed in cover after being healthgated by a hunter, either by the hunter itself using its high movement speed (plus high health and shields) to flank, or by the various rockets, geth prime shots and geth drone shots which can track around cover especially in laggy situations, or by geth turrets that can spawn behind cover, or just by lag in general.  In other words I think it's important to remember that Hunters don't spawn and attack in a vacuum, they're part of a whole army.

Sihmm wrote...
But it takes FAR more effort and attention and ridiculous reaction speeds than playing against the other factions and I enjoy it almost never.

this reasoning I can understand
Saying "wtf cheap stunlock everywhere, I will never play anymore!" still looks weird for me

Sort of a tangent, but related: I find playing against Geth really irritating.  For some reason most "I find playing against Geth really irritating" threads seem to attract a line of counter argument that says "Geth are not irritating because you can win against them", or alternatively "Geth are easy and therefore if you don't find them fun it's because you're a bad player".  Which are both total derails that are not relevant to the question of whether they're fun to play against.

Anyway, for me personally, the stuns are just one of many factors that coincide in the Geth to make them a really annoying faction to fight.  Put all those factors together and yeah, it can get overwhelmingly annoying to the point that I don't want to play them anymore, and nor do I feel any shame for not wanting to play something that's not fun.  I always end up playing them again sooner or later because I feel the game stagnates a bit with just two factions.

Modifié par Sihmm, 05 octobre 2012 - 05:05 .

[-Sxx-]

InvincibleHero wrote...

I don't think anyone can call themselves elite and refuse to play one faction.

Lol elites. Anyone who calls themselves that are truly full of it. 

[Ryan80537]

Geth stunning you?

Stun them back!

[spudspot]

Ryan80537 wrote...

Geth stunning you?

Stun them back!

Yeah, like they'd care... 

Modifié par spudspot, 05 octobre 2012 - 05:11 .

[neteng101]

spudspot wrote...

Yeah, like they'd care... 

Exactly!  We can't even stun them worth anything cause they shoot back immediately stunned or not, so there's no escaping once you're in the stun cycle.

[Ryan80537]

I find it hard to believe the freaking combat drone firing at you is the straw that broke the camels back. Geth are harder than they were before, but as far as I can tell the only changes are that the Pyro can't be grabbed and the combat drone is now taking part in combat. They aren't that much harder, they are easy to headshot, they have no OHK's.

Suck it up soldiers!

[Riot Inducer]

Ryan80537 wrote...

I find it hard to believe the freaking combat drone firing at you is the straw that broke the camels back. Geth are harder than they were before, but as far as I can tell the only changes are that the Pyro can't be grabbed and the combat drone is now taking part in combat. They aren't that much harder, they are easy to headshot, they have no OHK's.

Suck it up soldiers!

I think the reason it's caused such an uproar is that the fixed drone staggers everyone regardless of their kit or stun resistance. Whereas most other geth stuns would usually leave you in control of your movement allowing you to at least awkwardly shuffle out of the line of fire while looking like a target duck in a carnival game.

[ryoldschool]

Ryan80537 wrote...

I find it hard to believe the freaking combat drone firing at you is the straw that broke the camels back. Geth are harder than they were before, but as far as I can tell the only changes are that the Pyro can't be grabbed and the combat drone is now taking part in combat. They aren't that much harder, they are easy to headshot, they have no OHK's.

Suck it up soldiers!

There was no recent straw that broke the camel's back.   They are not enjoyable to play against compared to the other factions, and I stopped playing UUG over a month ago - a bunch of us have.

The thing is that given that is how they were, the only thing they adjust is to add prime headshot damage but put in more stuff that people have been complaining about.

[Darth_Atreyu]

All other factions have instakill units exceot the geth, would you rather be instakilled or stun for a second or two?
The geth are a balanced faction probably the easiest faction there is nothing wrong with them,
Every faction have their strengths and weaknesses and will require different tactics to defeat and that's a good thing.
you might think that your grievances are true but in reality thats not the case here.
You are not making any sense how does the Geth take away player control?
With your logic we shouldn't be able to be killed or even interact with the enemies in the game because that would mean we lose control of our character.
Chill and prepare to be ascended on tuesday.

[getrandomnumber]

I'm currently too tired to read the whole thread, but I'll express my opinion on post-patch Geth nonetheless:

They are ridiculous. While I can understand ungrababble Pyros, I've been unable to grab hunters as well whenever I fought them since yesterday. The drone regularly kills me with it's agonizingly long super-stagger, and it even seems to ignore my Kroguards frontal stagger immunity at times.
Also, Hunters and Rocket Troopers are still cheap as hell.
To sum it up, Geth are one of the two small things I'm disappointed about in this long awaited and otherwise amazing patch, and I'll avoid them at all cost now. Let's all hope that Bioware manages to make the Collectors a challenging and interesting enemies without relying on such cheapness.

[kaileena_sands]

 Got London/Geth with mu Fury today, and while we won without any particular problems (apart from the traditional wave 10 central hack), it was sooo annoying. There were two or three moments today when I was just being tossed left and right like a ragdoll.  God, it felt as if I'd never ever get back control of my character. Hard? No, not particularly harder than reapers. More annoying? Hell, yes.

Not to mention that new drone staggering like a little b****. <_< You kill it, and a second back it's on again!

[OuterRim]

The geth would be less annoying (and acceptable) to play against by doing the following:

1. Limit stun on Hunters to their first shot after they de-cloak. An every shot stun is just silly since the surprise is over with the first shot.

2. Limit Rocket troopers to fire one rocket per second. Is this really too much to ask for?

3. The Geth should not be able to fire when THEY are staggered.

4. The Prime's shots should continue to stun with each shot. Just look at the size of that Cannon! however, they should be limited to one turret and one drone active at a time.

Geth would then be fixed.

Modifié par OuterRim, 05 octobre 2012 - 07:36 .

[SavagelyEpic]

sareth_65536 wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...
 If you're going to attempt to call me a liar then at least provide some arguments to support your claim.

they can't stunlock to death unless you allowed him to melee you which is your fault. 
moreover hunter stunlock simply does not exist on characters with dodge. This also applies to prime as they have the same type of stuns.
Run from two hunters
Use a power after stun before he shoots second shot
Use a power after first shot and dodge second hunter

SavagelyEpic wrote...

LOL. Idiocy at it's finest.

Want a test? I'll give you a test.

Lone hunter. One bar of health left. No shields. Last enemy. I have full health/shields/ammo.

Shoots me. Stunlock. DAMNIT MAN JUST SHOOT ALREADY HE HAS ONE BAR OF HEALTH LEFT

Shoots me again. Stunlock. FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE ALL I NEED TO DO IS GET ONE BLOODY SHOT OFF

Shoots me again. Stunlock. JUST PULL THE DAMN TRIGGER!

Shoots me again. TEAM MEMBER OFFLINE. MISSION SCRUBBED. WE'RE OUTTA HERE.

four shots? You must have been afking.
Also you say that you couldn't take down a one bar of health from a regular enemy which you clearly see thanks to the last enemy marker. That explains what kind of players are still complaining.

You are either ESL or you're just stupid.

Seeing an enemy doesn't mean he's dead. Doing something to him does. If you can't shoot, move, cast any powers, and you basically have all control of your character taken away from you, it doesn't matter if there's only one enemy left.

Suddenly I'm a player of poor skill because I can't hack the game so my guys can ignore stunlock?

:. You're either a moron or a troll.

Modifié par SavagelyEpic, 06 octobre 2012 - 06:46 .

[I-DeuS-I]

Geth were not a problem back then but now after the patch the new stun lock animation make them unplayable. Playing two matches against geth was a nightmare, on wave 6-10 constant stun locks. Lesson learn, avoid geth at all cost it will spare you the trouble of endless frustration and rage.

[mybudgee]

LIGHTEN UP... It's a videogame. You know, for fun? Remember that stuff?