146 réponses à ce sujet

[daffl5]

really cool ideas

[EpicBoot2daFace]

It's just typical comic book logic. "They're dead until they're not."

[deuce985]

One of my Warden characters has unfinished business for her biting the hand that feeds her.

I'll be sure to put her down coldly on that import if she's in DA3. Although, my main Warden did make you realize your true nature. I enjoyed hardening you and sharing the lice covered bed in party camp.

Modifié par deuce985, 05 octobre 2012 - 10:41 .

[DarkDragon777]

Bioware wouldn't want their precious Leliana to die, now would they?

[daffl5]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Bioware wouldn't want their precious Leliana to die, now would they?

lol 

[The Train]

deuce985 wrote...

One of my Warden characters has unfinished business for her biting the hand that feeds her.

I'll be sure to put her down coldly on that import if she's in DA3. Although, my main Warden did make you realize your true nature. I enjoyed hardening you and sharing the lice covered bed in party camp.

I think I stepped into an episode of Dragon Age: SVU

[Sylvanpyxie]

Bioware forgot to put on her plot armour before sending her out to play. They then realized how stupid that was, because they had plans for her in future content, so they proceeded to fix their mistake and return her from the dead in Dragon Age 2. *Thumbs up*

Plot armour is annoying - as Tallis and Sebastian Vael have proven - but it's often the lesser of two evils. A wise lesson that Bioware seem to have learnt.

Soooo.... uh... Yeah, Leliana is coming back for a relatively major role - Unlikely to be a companion, but perhaps a major contributing NPC.

[ejoslin]

Kail Ashton wrote...

i thought it was because she's Mike Laidlaw's faverite? CONSPIRACY~!! ....i guess, i dunno, it was a stupid idea letting you kill them anyway, retcon all the companion deaths you want that aren't story relevant (so wynne, zevran, leliana, shale, fenris, merril, aveline & alistair even though you never see him killed so the execution sentence can be more easily written away) story relevant deaths like Loghain & Anders make sense to follow

My theory is that when they went over the compiled data they saw that she was romanced in almost every single game so figured she had to be an overwhelmingly popular character whom everyone loved.  This actually was caused by a bug that caused Leliana's romance to be turned on automatically in a certain conversation, but hey, data are data.

She was at 100 (Love) when my city elf had to kill her.  Ugh, and she (my elf) had just started to trust shems!  That was really a terrible moment.  I should write a fan fic.

Modifié par ejoslin, 05 octobre 2012 - 11:15 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Bfler wrote...

Because it wouldn't be a good canon story if they hero of DAO kills one of his followers, after he has defiled the urn of a revered being.
Wynne is the only one who is canon dead at the moment and her death is meaningful. Leliana's death would be pointless.

A death in a random novel most of us are unlikely to ever read is suddenly meaningful? Especially when it's a character that could've had a cameo in any number of significant enough relevant roles such as court mage or first enchanter?

Leliana's death was meaningful in that she opposed the main protagonist, and payed the ultimate price for it. Something that not only defines a character of integrity, but also is something that can (and should) easily be reflected in future games as a result of player agency. Which, at the end of the day, is what all of this should be about.

Also, this comes from someone who killed Wynne himself but had Leliana survive.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 06 octobre 2012 - 12:57 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Pedrak wrote...

It's called "retcon".

Seriously, it's possible they realized she should play a big role in DA3 and regretted they did not give her a plot armor in DAO. So they made her canonically alive, implausible though it might seem to the players who had actually BEHEADED her.

Pretty much this. In fact I believe it was said that Leliana was the only thing they retconned for the series, everything else is fair game at the moment.

Anders died defending Virgil Keep along with Justice/Kristoff and the rest of companions who didn't joint my party to defend Amarathine in Awakening.

[DPSSOC]

Bfler wrote...
Wynne is the only one who is canon dead at the moment and her death is meaningful. Leliana's death would be pointless.

To be fair Lelianna's life is pointless, so far.  She hasn't done anything that had to be done by her, anybody could have gone to the party in MotA, or another agent could have shown up in Faith.  Her actions in the previous title and connection to the Warden are, as of yet, irrelevant to anything she's doing in DA2.  Now I haven't read Asunder so if something in the book qualifies (there is no possible way it could be anybody other than Lelianna) do share.

LinksOcarina wrote...

Pedrak wrote...
It's called "retcon".

Seriously, it's possible they realized she should play a big role in DA3 and regretted they did not give her a plot armor in DAO. So they made her canonically alive, implausible though it might seem to the players who had actually BEHEADED her.

Pretty much this. In fact I believe it was said that Leliana was the only thing they retconned for the series, everything else is fair game at the moment.

If it has been said, they lied. Anders could be dead, Anders could have not been recruited, Justice could have not been recruited, Justice could be dead, etc. There are any number of possible outcomes that make Anders merging with Justice impossible, these have been retconned. Is that a bad thing? We'll see, so far other than generating a few wtf moments the retcons haven't done any damage so I'm willing to wait and see how it pans out. We haven't hit Star Wars prequel levels yet.

Bfler wrote...
Asunder is the link between DA2 and 3, so it is canon for the overall story of the DA universe.
The same canon, as if Gaider would come to the forum and explain to you who is dead and who is alive.

David Gaider has said (don't have a link to lazy to hunt it down) that Asunder is a canon not the canon. The events happen but the characters are malleable. The broad strokes hold but the details may differ.

[deuce985]

The Train wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

One of my Warden characters has unfinished business for her biting the hand that feeds her.

I'll be sure to put her down coldly on that import if she's in DA3. Although, my main Warden did make you realize your true nature. I enjoyed hardening you and sharing the lice covered bed in party camp.

I think I stepped into an episode of Dragon Age: SVU

[Confused-Shepard]

It would have been awesome if you killed Leliana in Origins but when she appears in DA 2 you get a flashback that shows black energy reforming her mangled corpse, her eyes glowing as she speaks in a growly voice, "Foolish warden... did you think the Maker's Bane would fall so easily?"

But then you return to the main game and she's all sweet and innocent and the player is scared ****less because Leliana is apparently some Eldritch Abomination from the 11th circle of hell.

[daffl5]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

It would have been awesome if you killed Leliana in Origins but when she appears in DA 2 you get a flashback that shows black energy reforming her mangled corpse, her eyes glowing as she speaks in a growly voice, "Foolish warden... did you think the Maker's Bane would fall so easily?"

But then you return to the main game and she's all sweet and innocent and the player is scared ****less because Leliana is apparently some Eldritch Abomination from the 11th circle of hell.

................................ what?

:huh:

[AlienWolf728]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

It would have been awesome if you killed Leliana in Origins but when she appears in DA 2 you get a flashback that shows black energy reforming her mangled corpse, her eyes glowing as she speaks in a growly voice, "Foolish warden... did you think the Maker's Bane would fall so easily?"

But then you return to the main game and she's all sweet and innocent and the player is scared ****less because Leliana is apparently some Eldritch Abomination from the 11th circle of hell.

She was my LI in origins, so I didn't kill her; However, I HIGHLY APPROVE OF THIS. I would make a new warden and kill her off just to see this.

Modifié par AlienWolf728, 06 octobre 2012 - 06:24 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

DPSSOC wrote...

David Gaider has said (don't have a link to lazy to hunt it down) that Asunder is a canon not the canon. The events happen but the characters are malleable. The broad strokes hold but the details may differ.

That's a good approach, and one I can support.

That said, some of the events in Asunder rely pretty heavily on some characteristics quite specific to Wynne, and the Warden could well have killed Wynne at the Circle tower.

[Bfler]

Only a question:
Why do people call Leliana alive a "retcon"? A retcon is, when the author decides to change previous established story lore of a fictional universe, like the revival of Sherlock Holmes. In my eyes, Leliana's death is only one possibility in Origins, which the authors decided to abandon, maybe because only a handful people choose it, but no retcon.
It is the same as in case of Virgils Keep. Ingame as PC you can only defend either Amaranthine or the Keep, not both. 

Modifié par Bfler, 06 octobre 2012 - 06:06 .

[Kaosbuddy]

Bfler wrote...

Only a question:
Why do people call Leliana alive a "retcon"? A retcon is, when the author decides to change previous established story lore of a fictional universe, like the revival of Sherlock Holmes. 

"Nope, you didn't kill her after all. Just a flesh wound." What else could it be called?

Zevran was a bug, Leliana was intentional.

[Xewaka]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
Anders died defending Virgil Keep along with Justice/Kristoff and the rest of companions who didn't joint my party to defend Amarathine in Awakening.

And when you find Nate in DA2 he goes "Anders? I thought you were dead!" to which Anders responds "I dressed a charred body with my clothes and legged it." And Justice is a damn Fade Spirit. He didn't die, the body he was residing in was destroyed.

Also, the beheading is a "cinematic kill" animation that triggrers at random. I doubt absolutely everyone who killed Leliana killed her by beheading. Left for dead is assumed, but the people who complain about leliana grafting her head back are just going out of their way to justify their displeasure.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Xewaka wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
Anders died defending Virgil Keep along with Justice/Kristoff and the rest of companions who didn't joint my party to defend Amarathine in Awakening.

And when you find Nate in DA2 he goes "Anders? I thought you were dead!" to which Anders responds "I dressed a charred body with my clothes and legged it." And Justice is a damn Fade Spirit. He didn't die, the body he was residing in was destroyed.

Awakening Epilogue:

Anders:
If left to defend the Keep without enough upgrades to it, he is found dead with an arrow through his neck with hundreds of darkspawn dead in a circle around him; none were touched with a blade, but all were felled by magic.

Justice:
If left to defend the Keep, and the Warden chooses to save the city of Amaranthine, Justice will fight valiantly, but, before the victory horn is sounded, a darkspawn sword removes Kristoff's head. It is unknown whether the spirit perishes or simply departs. At the least, Kristoff's wife, Aura, is finally able to claim her husband's ashes.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Epilogue_(Awakening)

Xewaka wrote...

Also, the beheading is a "cinematic kill" animation that triggrers at random. I doubt absolutely everyone who killed Leliana killed her by beheading. Left for dead is assumed, but the people who complain about leliana grafting her head back are just going out of their way to justify their displeasure.

"Cinematic Kill" doesn't exist in my roleplay whether playing as The Hero of Ferelden in DAO or playing with BioWare's Hawke in DA 2.

There is no logical explaination. There is only inconsistentency and evidences of poor writing.

[Xerxes52]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

It would have been awesome if you killed Leliana in Origins but when she appears in DA 2 you get a flashback that shows black energy reforming her mangled corpse, her eyes glowing as she speaks in a growly voice, "Foolish warden... did you think the Maker's Bane would fall so easily?"

But then you return to the main game and she's all sweet and innocent and the player is scared ****less because Leliana is apparently some Eldritch Abomination from the 11th circle of hell.

...



Good enough explanation for me!

[amggrunt]

Well she did say the maker told her too help you. So maybe the Maker pulled a little ressurection on are poor warden.

[Xewaka]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
Anders died defending Virgil Keep along with Justice/Kristoff and the rest of companions who didn't joint my party to defend Amarathine in Awakening.

And when you find Nate in DA2 he goes "Anders? I thought you were dead!" to which Anders responds "I dressed a charred body with my clothes and legged it." And Justice is a damn Fade Spirit. He didn't die, the body he was residing in was destroyed.

Awakening Epilogue:

Anders:
If left to defend the Keep without enough upgrades to it, he is found dead with an arrow through his neck with hundreds of darkspawn dead in a circle around him; none were touched with a blade, but all were felled by magic.
Justice:
If left to defend the Keep, and the Warden chooses to save the city of Amaranthine, Justice will fight valiantly, but, before the victory horn is sounded, a darkspawn sword removes Kristoff's head. It is unknown whether the spirit perishes or simply departs. At the least, Kristoff's wife, Aura, is finally able to claim her husband's ashes.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Epilogue_(Awakening)

There you go.

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
Also, the beheading is a "cinematic kill" animation that triggrers at random. I doubt absolutely everyone who killed Leliana killed her by beheading. Left for dead is assumed, but the people who complain about leliana grafting her head back are just going out of their way to justify their displeasure.

"Cinematic Kill" doesn't exist in my roleplay whether playing as The Hero of Ferelden in DAO or playing with BioWare's Hawke in DA 2.
There is no logical explaination. There is only inconsistentency and evidences of poor writing.

Congratulations on completely missing the point.

[Rawgrim]

amggrunt wrote...

Well she did say the maker told her too help you. So maybe the Maker pulled a little ressurection on are poor warden.

Allthough the devs have said they won`t give us clear evidence of the maker actually excisting...