146 réponses à ce sujet

[unbentbuzzkill]

so who believes the maker is a demon?

[garrusfan1]

I hope she does since I love her as a character. And considering DA2 ending I think she will play a huge part

[TJPags]

Epilogue slides are "rumor and heresay".  Which is BW's way of saying "we thought the whole 'Justice possesses Anders' was really cool and decided to use it, no matter what you did in your game".

Leliana is alive.  Which is BW's way of saying "wow, most of our fans love this chick, let's keep putting her in games, no matter what other people did".

All the explanations I've heard for her being alive fall flat for me.

The ashes did it - yes, the defiled ashes revived her.  Why'd I need to take that handful before defiling them, then?

Mountain of Lyrium - then how come lyrium potions don't heal?  Why doesn't lyrium dust heal?  Since when DOES lyrium heal?

The area is close to the Fade (this one I heard first in this thread, actually) - so is Kirkwall.  Did we get a lot of resurrections there?  And just because some curious spirit revived Wynne (who can still die, imagine that!!) doesn't mean it happens to everyone.

The Maker did it - yea, what happened to BW telling us they won't EVER make a certain statement about whether the Maker exists or not?

The Warden just assumed she was dead/feign death - the Warden, and the Warden's party, is a killing machine.  Is this the ONE time they failed to actually kill someone for real?  And don't say they never checked - I looted her damn corpse, as I'm sure most of you (those who killed her) did too.

Now, all that said, DG has promised an explanation.  I'm still willing to hear it.  But I hope BW is more creative than this entire board, because I've yet to hear an explanation that doesn't have a hole I can drive a truck through.

[Sejborg]

She was quite popular, and alot of fans liked her. Perhaps Bioware also really liked the voice actor, and the actor liked the work. And perhaps the writers thought she was alot of fun to write. Therefore I think they brought her back.

It's not as if they couldn't just invent a new character to fill that role.

[themikefest]

why did Leliana really survive?
to become the next divine when the divine dies at the end of da3(my opinion)

[TheGreatLordShatner]

She's a sensual powerhouse. The only woman who can rocket the Warden's spaceship to the moon.

[TJPags]

Sejborg wrote...

She was quite popular, and alot of fans liked her. Perhaps Bioware also really liked the voice actor, and the actor liked the work. And perhaps the writers thought she was alot of fun to write. Therefore I think they brought her back.

It's not as if they couldn't just invent a new character to fill that role.

That's the part that really drives me crazy about this.  There was NOTHING that Leliana did in DA2 that couldn't have been done by a brand new character.

The same is true regarding Anders/Justice, Zevran, and Isabela, IMO.

[TEWR]

TJPags wrote...

The area is close to the Fade (this one I heard first in this thread, actually) - so is Kirkwall. Did we get a lot of resurrections there? And just because some curious spirit revived Wynne (who can still die, imagine that!!) doesn't mean it happens to everyone.

Gonna address this since as far as I know I'm the only person in the thread who has made these two points, but then again I haven't actually read the whole thread.

Well, Kirkwall just has an extremely thin Veil. The Gauntlet is literally infused with the Fade, according to Wynne. It's a slight, but possibly vital difference.

And as for Wynne, when I mentioned her I wasn't saying that Leliana also got possessed by a Spirit. Just that Wynne was, in fact, a case of death being reversed. Still, even Wynne's death isn't something we can be sure wasn't permanent, until Asunder happened. Meaning that even if we killed her in Origins, we can't say the Spirit of Faith won't do it a second time.

Really, much of the reason why Leliana's death seems hard to explain is because it came out of nowhere and we don't have much to go off of. We have the word of an insane man that the Ashes won't heal anyone once they've been mixed with dragon's blood, but we can't test that theory out.

So we have to believe that an insane cultist was right, when this was the first time magical ashes have ever been mixed with dragon's blood.

Frankly, given the lore on dragon's blood -- how it increases constitution of a person and strength -- I'd be willing to say it amplified the powers of Andraste's ashes, rather then nullified them. Partially fueled by my Somniari OGB Blood Mage Andraste theory.

In fact, as I state that I'm.... gonna go to that as my main theory. Andraste being a Somniari OGB Blood Mage -- born with the soul of the Archdemon of the 1st Blight, commonly believed to have been Dumat -- is the reason why her ashes were able to heal people. Dragon's blood grants magical bonuses to a person that drinks it in regards to their health and constitution, so it'd make sense that OGB Andraste's ashes would be able to heal people. They're the ashes of a person whose soul was that of a Dragon.

And then mixing in the blood of "Andraste" or her children only amplified the powers of the Ashes, rather then negate them.

I see no reason to think this isn't possible. So this is my theory.

Second, we have Wynne's comments on the Gauntlet being infused with the Fade, which admittedly isn't much to go on. Is it different from Kirkwall's paper-thin Veil? Is it the same?

Third, if lyrium really has to do with all of this, why is it that lyrium is so fatal to people that touch it or ingest it continuously?

Like I said, little to go off of, and what we do have might seem not good enough.

TJPags wrote...

Since when DOES lyrium heal?

Well, in lore it's never been brought up. In gameplay, going to the lyrium veins in the Fade or the Deep Roads heals the Warden, allies, and enemies.

So take that for what it's worth. Whether that's actually canon is up in the air.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 08 octobre 2012 - 03:19 .

[TJPags]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

TJPags wrote...

The area is close to the Fade (this one I heard first in this thread, actually) - so is Kirkwall. Did we get a lot of resurrections there? And just because some curious spirit revived Wynne (who can still die, imagine that!!) doesn't mean it happens to everyone.

Gonna address this since as far as I know I'm the only person in the thread who has made these two points, but then again I haven't actually read the whole thread.

Well, Kirkwall just has an extremely thin Veil. The Gauntlet is literally infused with the Fade, according to Wynne. It's a slight, but possibly vital difference.

And as for Wynne, when I mentioned her I wasn't saying that Leliana also got possessed by a Spirit. Just that Wynne was, in fact, a case of death being reversed. Still, even Wynne's death isn't something we can be sure wasn't permanent, until Asunder happened. Meaning that even if we killed her in Origins, we can't say the Spirit of Faith won't do it a second time.

Really, much of the reason why Leliana's death seems hard to explain is because it came out of nowhere and we don't have much to go off of. We have the word of an insane man that the Ashes won't heal anyone once they've been mixed with dragon's blood, but we can't test that theory out.

So we have to believe that an insane cultist was right, when this was the first time magical ashes have ever been mixed with dragon's blood.

Frankly, given the lore on dragon's blood -- how it increases constitution of a person and strength -- I'd be willing to say it amplified the powers of Andraste's ashes, rather then nullified them. Partially fueled by my Somniari OGB Blood Mage Andraste theory.

Second, we have Wynne's comments on the Gauntlet being infused with the Fade, which admittedly isn't much to go on. Is it different from Kirkwall's paper-thin Veil? Is it the same?

Third, if lyrium really has to do with all of this, why is it that lyrium is so fatal to people that touch it or ingest it continuously?

TJPags wrote...

Since when DOES lyrium heal?

Well, in lore it's never been brought up. In gameplay, going to the lyrium veins in the Fade or the Deep Roads heals the Warden, allies, and enemies.

So take that for what it's worth. Whether that's actually canon is up in the air.

Well, maybe there's a distinction.  Maybe there isn't.  If it is, it may well be a very very fine distinction.  It may also be a distinction made meaningful by a need to come up with a plausible explanation. 

I'd also point out, we have nothing but the word of a spirit (the Guardian) that the Ashes actually do heal, don't we?  Isn't it just legend in other respects?  I mean, nobody actually tried it before, right?  Maybe the ashes did nothing, and Loghain's 'not intended to kill him' poison just wore off?

As for Lyrium - my recollection is that it restored mana and possibly stamina - did it restore health as well?  Been a while since I played . . . .

[The Hierophant]

Meh, to keep it simple i'd imagine that Flemeth had a hand in Leliana's resurrection.

[TEWR]

TJPags wrote...

Well, maybe there's a distinction. Maybe there isn't. If it is, it may well be a very very fine distinction. It may also be a distinction made meaningful by a need to come up with a plausible explanation.

A fair point. A distinction being made out of necessity, rather then uniqueness, on the part of Bioware.

TJPags wrote...

Isn't it just legend in other respects?

More or less. Blind being able to see, lame being able to walk. But stories.

TJPags wrote...

Maybe the ashes did nothing, and Loghain's 'not intended to kill him' poison just wore off?

Well, from an out-of-game perspective this isn't quite right. Loghain's poison couldn't have worn off, as it required an antidote that Loghain had.

In-game though? You could probably believe that, though Eamon's glowing schtick might make you think that's stretching it.

TJPags wrote...

- did it restore health as well?

I think it did, but then again I can't remember much either.

Incidentally, what do you think of this theory that I modified into my post:

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

In fact, as I state that I'm.... gonna go to that as my main theory. Andraste being a Somniari OGB Blood Mage -- born with the soul of the Archdemon of the 1st Blight, commonly believed to have been Dumat -- is the reason why her ashes were able to heal people. Dragon's blood grants magical bonuses to a person that drinks it in regards to their health and constitution, so it'd make sense that OGB Andraste's ashes would be able to heal people. They're the ashes of a person whose soul was that of a Dragon.

And then mixing in the blood of "Andraste" or her children only amplified the powers of the Ashes, rather then negate them.

I see no reason to think this isn't possible. So this is my theory.

Certainly, there doesn't seem to be anything to indicate it's not possible, as of yet. But there is a plethora of in-game evidence to point to it being possible.

The Hierophant wrote...

Meh, to keep it simple i'd imagine that Flemeth had a hand in Leliana's resurrection.

I.... can actually definitely see Flemeth doing that.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 08 octobre 2012 - 03:30 .

[thats1evildude]

Loathe as I am to suggest it, I want to raise the possibility that the Leliana seen in DA2 is not the real Leliana, but rather a shapeshifter that has replaced her.

Aveline's personal quest in Mark of the Assassin raised the possibility that doppelgangers may exist in the setting. We know that Flemeth can look however she wants; why couldn't someone or something else learn such an art?

Modifié par thats1evildude, 08 octobre 2012 - 03:43 .

[Rawgrim]

Didn`t Morrigan say that one can`t shapeshift into another human being?

[Zkyire]

daffl5 wrote...

 sorry if there is another topic like this.

Am i the only one who thinks that leliana is going to play a MASSIVE role in upcoming DA games? reason's you ask???? ok: she can't really die in DAO, she is working as the divine's right hand, and she seems to be searching for hawke and the warden:huh:

What is she up too???? is she the next andraste with that vision thing???? who knows... what do y'all think:lol:

A wizardThe Maker did it.

[Zkyire]

Rawgrim wrote...

Didn`t Morrigan say that one can`t shapeshift into another human being?

She said she can, but she "gains nothing"(seeing/learning from a different perspective) from it, since she's already Human.

Modifié par Zkyire, 08 octobre 2012 - 09:25 .

[Kroitz]

Plot-device.

[Withidread]

Heya, it's me, Leliana.

Leliana survives, in my mind, for two reasons.
1. Bioware doesn't have to import every decision, especially one made by a very small minority of players that interferes with their intentions for the rest of the series.

2. You can't kill Imoen. You might want to, you might REALLY want to, but you can't, you have to put up with that whiny voice for eternity.

[TJPags]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

In fact, as I state that I'm.... gonna go to that as my main theory. Andraste being a Somniari OGB Blood Mage -- born with the soul of the Archdemon of the 1st Blight, commonly believed to have been Dumat -- is the reason why her ashes were able to heal people. Dragon's blood grants magical bonuses to a person that drinks it in regards to their health and constitution, so it'd make sense that OGB Andraste's ashes would be able to heal people. They're the ashes of a person whose soul was that of a Dragon.

And then mixing in the blood of "Andraste" or her children only amplified the powers of the Ashes, rather then negate them.

I see no reason to think this isn't possible. So this is my theory.

Certainly, there doesn't seem to be anything to indicate it's not possible, as of yet. But there is a plethora of in-game evidence to point to it being possible.

Well . . . .that's possible, I suppose.  Can't recall anything that would eliminate it.  However, while I myself subscribe to the "Andraste was simply a powerful mage" theory, you are adding in a number of . . somewhat uncommon elements.  Still, could certainly work.

Withidread wrote...

Heya, it's me, Leliana.

Leliana survives, in my mind, for two reasons.
1. Bioware doesn't have to import every decision, especially one made by a very small minority of players that interferes with their intentions for the rest of the series.

2. You can't kill Imoen. You might want to, you might REALLY want to, but you can't, you have to put up with that whiny voice for eternity.

Yea, see, that's the big problem.  Don't tell me you're going to import my game based on my choices, then decide some of my choices are so uncommon as not to be needed.  Either import every decision, or just make one canon game and eliminate meaningful choice.

That, or don't give people a choice to do something you don't really want them to do....

[Vicious]

She said she can, but she "gains nothing"(seeing/learning from a different perspective) from it, since she's already Human.

In other words, she can. Period.

[TEWR]

TJPags wrote...

you are adding in a number of . . somewhat uncommon elements

Well, I think she was definitely a Blood Mage OGB. Glandivalis was definitely imbued with blood magic abilities and was given to Shartan from Andraste. And certainly, there'd be a delicious level of irony if Andraste toppled the Imperium by not only being a Mage, but a Blood Mage to boot.

Then there'd be a third level of delicious irony if she had the soul of an Old God.

I like irony.

I like to add Somniari though because... well... Somniari are in fact very powerful Mages. More then you typically see.