895 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

Hawke losing his/her mother-I feel for Hawke because I lost my father to a surgery gone wrong.
The mage warden at the tower-I understand the concern there, because I would feel the same way if it were me coming ot my home to find it ravaged by demons.

Without that ability to connect the game's story to the player, the game has no story. Understand now?

And how does the import validate any of those feelings? Just because an import may say The Warden (not your Warden, mind you but THE Warden) might actually be a Dalish Elf Rogue rather than your Mage... does that mean those feelings you felt, of returning to a devastated home, we're any less real? Would Bioware be saying to you 'those emotions are WRONG!'

No. Of course not. But, in order to set up another time where you can connect and feel for a character, they could use the amazing and influential events of past games to tell deeper stories.

What about a companion who was a dwarf and escaped Orzammar and a death sentence, since they were a criminal and were going to be sacrificed to the Anvil? That could be a stirring story of redemption and persecution that could resonate with lots of people. But it's one that could never be told with imports, since it would involve having a companion/NPC who's entire existence could vary from game to game.

That's a really cool story idea for the DA universe that I just made up on the fly. Imagine all the better story ideas professional writers could draft, create and flesh out... but can't, because you can't mention Ferelden, Orzammar or the Free Marches without stepping on toes.

THAT'S what we mean by a better story. I could whip out half a dozen ideas involving prior choices that a professional writer could do a lot of service to. But none of them could happen to any real degree, since import choices are destined to have the least amount of influence on future games possible.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 07 novembre 2012 - 10:04 .

[draken-heart]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
And if you prefer playing games with little/bad story, maybe YOU are the one who should find another game. Story, choice and now (unfortunately) romances are the hallmarks of Bioware's products. If you don't like story or choice in your games, you are probably on the wrong site. 

I never said that, I said that IF you think a story is weak, then it is because you were not able to get into the story to begin with. I said I thought DA2's story was strong because I could connect to the character, Import means nothing to that, SO I say it should stay.

I even gave an example of how DA2 connected me to Hawke. The fact that I lost my father and Hawke lost his/her mother.

Get it?

[draken-heart]

Realmzmaster wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Then why bother now?Why not wait for those games to be announced? Other than the fact that if this game bombs, there won't be a DA4 or beyond.

Plus, Hasn't DA 3 been worked on for while before they announced it?

You do not wait until the next game is announced. One has to get the word out as soon as possible and as often as possible to have the maximum effect. That is simply good marketing. That is how people are influenced. Repeat the message so people remember it.

And you think a story is weak if you can't get into it. That is your complaint, that the import feature ruins your ability to get into the game.

The point of a story in a game is to hook the player, to get them into the world.

Hawke losing his/her mother-I feel for Hawke because I lost my father to a surgery gone wrong.
The mage warden at the tower-I understand the concern there, because I would feel the same way if it were me coming ot my home to find it ravaged by demons.

Without that ability to connect the game's story to the player, the game has no story. Understand now?

The player does not have a personal connection to the story for the story to be well written and a good story. A good story is there to entertain  and at times to provoke thought.
I understand Frodo's (Lord of the Rings)  plight without having to experience it. A good story allows the reader to imaginebeing in the shoes of that person without actually having to experience it. You experience it through the eyes of that person. The character is not me I play and control the character.

You just have ot be able to get into the game's story, personal connection just adds to that.

If I cannot get into the game, then the story does nothing for me, good to you or not.

[Realmzmaster]

hhh89 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...



Also we arenot trying to change Bioware's mind. As Fast Jimmy said we are here to change the gamers minds. If we change enough of those then even Bioware will listen.

From Gaider's post, it seems that import is a feuture they want in DA regardless how see it.
Regardless, do you seriously expect to change people's mind here, in the BSN? (without considering that the people that you might convince here are not enough in numbers to convince Bioware of removing the import feature).

If I can convince one person he or she may convince others who convince others. That is how it works. The ones begin to add up until it reaches critical mass. You change opinion one person at a time until the minority becomes the majority. If one does not try, one will succeed at nothing. I may fail but it will not be because I did not try.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 07 novembre 2012 - 10:15 .

[Realmzmaster]

draken-heart wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Then why bother now?Why not wait for those games to be announced? Other than the fact that if this game bombs, there won't be a DA4 or beyond.

Plus, Hasn't DA 3 been worked on for while before they announced it?

You do not wait until the next game is announced. One has to get the word out as soon as possible and as often as possible to have the maximum effect. That is simply good marketing. That is how people are influenced. Repeat the message so people remember it.

And you think a story is weak if you can't get into it. That is your complaint, that the import feature ruins your ability to get into the game.

The point of a story in a game is to hook the player, to get them into the world.

Hawke losing his/her mother-I feel for Hawke because I lost my father to a surgery gone wrong.
The mage warden at the tower-I understand the concern there, because I would feel the same way if it were me coming ot my home to find it ravaged by demons.

Without that ability to connect the game's story to the player, the game has no story. Understand now?

The player does not have a personal connection to the story for the story to be well written and a good story. A good story is there to entertain  and at times to provoke thought.
I understand Frodo's (Lord of the Rings)  plight without having to experience it. A good story allows the reader to imaginebeing in the shoes of that person without actually having to experience it. You experience it through the eyes of that person. The character is not me I play and control the character.

You just have ot be able to get into the game's story, personal connection just adds to that.

If I cannot get into the game, then the story does nothing for me, good to you or not.

And there lies the difference between you and I. I can get into a story  and its' characters if it is engaging.  If the story is not good I do not care how good the gameplay. Story is the meat of Bioware games take away the meat what are you left with?

[draken-heart]

Realmzmaster wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Then why bother now?Why not wait for those games to be announced? Other than the fact that if this game bombs, there won't be a DA4 or beyond.

Plus, Hasn't DA 3 been worked on for while before they announced it?

You do not wait until the next game is announced. One has to get the word out as soon as possible and as often as possible to have the maximum effect. That is simply good marketing. That is how people are influenced. Repeat the message so people remember it.

And you think a story is weak if you can't get into it. That is your complaint, that the import feature ruins your ability to get into the game.

The point of a story in a game is to hook the player, to get them into the world.

Hawke losing his/her mother-I feel for Hawke because I lost my father to a surgery gone wrong.
The mage warden at the tower-I understand the concern there, because I would feel the same way if it were me coming ot my home to find it ravaged by demons.

Without that ability to connect the game's story to the player, the game has no story. Understand now?

The player does not have a personal connection to the story for the story to be well written and a good story. A good story is there to entertain  and at times to provoke thought.
I understand Frodo's (Lord of the Rings)  plight without having to experience it. A good story allows the reader to imaginebeing in the shoes of that person without actually having to experience it. You experience it through the eyes of that person. The character is not me I play and control the character.

You just have ot be able to get into the game's story, personal connection just adds to that.

If I cannot get into the game, then the story does nothing for me, good to you or not.

And there lies the difference between you and I. I can get into a story  and its' characters if it is engaging.  If the story is not good I do not care how good the gameplay. Story is the meat of Bioware games take away the meat what are you left with?

Now you are twisting my words. Gameplay is good, I can see that if the story is good by the fact that I can enjoy the game itself. You may think a specific part of the game ruins the story fine, but I am not saying I do not care about the story, just that you and I have differing opinions of story strength, one where Imports can help or hinder depending on the opinion

Modifié par draken-heart, 07 novembre 2012 - 10:22 .

[The Elder King]

Realmzmaster wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...



Also we arenot trying to change Bioware's mind. As Fast Jimmy said we are here to change the gamers minds. If we change enough of those then even Bioware will listen.

From Gaider's post, it seems that import is a feuture they want in DA regardless how see it.
Regardless, do you seriously expect to change people's mind here, in the BSN? (without considering that the people that you might convince here are not enough in numbers to convince Bioware of removing the import feature).

If I can convince one person he or she may convince others who convince others. That is how it works. The ones begin to add up until it reaches critical mass. Yoy change opinion one person at a time until the minority becomes the majority. If one does not try, one will succeed at nothing. I may fail but it will not be because I did not try.

The fact that you convince one person about it doesn't mean that the person will try to convince another person. You have to convince them to convince another person. It's going to be really hard.

[Fast Jimmy]

The fact that you convince one person about it doesn't mean that the person will try to convince another person. You have to convince them to convince another person. It's going to be really hard.

At the risk of sounding operatic, nothing truly worth doing is ever easy.

[draken-heart]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The fact that you convince one person about it doesn't mean that the person will try to convince another person. You have to convince them to convince another person. It's going to be really hard.

At the risk of sounding operatic, nothing truly worth doing is ever easy.

But are the "end results" worth it?

Modifié par draken-heart, 07 novembre 2012 - 11:36 .

[Realmzmaster]

draken-heart wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The fact that you convince one person about it doesn't mean that the person will try to convince another person. You have to convince them to convince another person. It's going to be really hard.

At the risk of sounding operatic, nothing truly worth doing is ever easy.

But are the "end results" worth it?

If I can convince someone or someones then the end result is worth it. That how revolutions begin.

[draken-heart]

Realmzmaster wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The fact that you convince one person about it doesn't mean that the person will try to convince another person. You have to convince them to convince another person. It's going to be really hard.

At the risk of sounding operatic, nothing truly worth doing is ever easy.

But are the "end results" worth it?

If I can convince someone or someones then the end result is worth it. That how revolutions begin.

I do plan on getting Assassin's Creed 3. It has a canon, but it can because the game is linear, no choice at all, not even those that get resolved in game. But I enjoy the series itself  because I can get into the game.

Any problem with me supporting a feature you do not like if I can get into a game that has it?

[Sidney]

Realmzmaster wrote...

If I can convince one person he or she may convince others who convince others. That is how it works. The ones begin to add up until it reaches critical mass. You change opinion one person at a time until the minority becomes the majority. If one does not try, one will succeed at nothing. I may fail but it will not be because I did not try.

Fundamentally you are right, trying to keep all these "choices" straight and have them mean something gets to be burdensome and a lot of things get shoe-horned in.  In theory you are correect.

In practice, the problem is that this is a connected series and the "effects" of what you;ve done are so big that DA3 can't just ignore DAO and DA2. They have to reference those series and either you reference nothing or you correctly represent the player choices. Since references nothing isn't really viable...you're gonna have to do an import.

[Realmzmaster]

Sidney wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

If I can convince one person he or she may convince others who convince others. That is how it works. The ones begin to add up until it reaches critical mass. You change opinion one person at a time until the minority becomes the majority. If one does not try, one will succeed at nothing. I may fail but it will not be because I did not try.

Fundamentally you are right, trying to keep all these "choices" straight and have them mean something gets to be burdensome and a lot of things get shoe-horned in.  In theory you are correect.

In practice, the problem is that this is a connected series and the "effects" of what you;ve done are so big that DA3 can't just ignore DAO and DA2. They have to reference those series and either you reference nothing or you correctly represent the player choices. Since references nothing isn't really viable...you're gonna have to do an import.

Or you set canon. Or you retcon events like Leliana being alive when some gamers killed her in the Sacred Ashes Quest. Bioware can and have ignored the imports in certain situations thereby establishing canon.

[godlike13]

Don't remove the save import, just fix it so it actually works properly this time. Please.

[Fast Jimmy]

^

Precisely.

Save imports, as we've seen them, either to their best to not acknowledge the choices at all, or acknowledge them in incredibly small ways.

If the feature results in diminishing the importance of past choices by just flat out acting like they never happened, I don't see how that has any more value than setting a canon... except that a canon would be much less resource intensive and could still reference past stories without having to create a ton of custom content or do a lot of hand waving to make it even halfway logical for two different choices to wind up in the same place.

[Flurdt Vash]

You know what the system may not be perfect, but nothing is. If my save import option is gone then I have lost my desire to continue with the series. One of the major things that got me over all my initial (and I will admit) agitations and strait nerd rage over DA2 was being able to import my world changes into DA2. If all the time I have spent in Origins and DA2 will mean nothing in DA3 then that will be the final kill ... for me . I'm not suggesting that everyone feels this way, Im simply stating my personal opinion.

I don't care about hand waiving. I don't care if I kill a character off and BioWare brings them back, its a fantasy story, I'm cool with it, just as long as they something like "I remember you" or "Not as dead as you thought" or what ever . BUT, don't take all the work I have done and make it for nothing. I understand that most rpgs especially now don't have any such feature. I get that, but that is one of the main, top 3 things that keep me into the series is knowing that my actions MEAN something in my game plays .

If that is taken away then I may as well play the dime a dozen other rpgs, because that is what this game will become to me. Just another fantasy setting with the option to sleep with my companions .

Do I love the lore for Dragon Age? YES! 
Do I love the art? With out a doubt!
Do I love the characters and the combat system that was improved on in DA2? YES and YES! :wizard:

But, all of these things are bound with the whole idea that Dragon Age is MY game series. That all the choices I make have consequences and the world that I shape will follow into future games. That I am writing the history for this work of art. If that's gone then its just another rpg, and I have a lot of those .

Any ways, before anyone barbeques my post, please note that I am only speaking personal opinion and in no way am trying to make others feel the same. Its simply my two cents .

Modifié par Flurdt07, 08 novembre 2012 - 04:57 .

[Fast Jimmy]

I appreciate your response.

If you don't mind... would you give an example of something you imported from DA:O to DA2 that you really loved about the import system? I'm just trying to get a feel for what exact examples people really liked or felt brought a lot of value.


EDIT: Wow... I read your post and then came back and it EXPLODED in emoticons! LOL 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 08 novembre 2012 - 05:00 .

[TheFinalDoctor]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I appreciate your response.

If you don't mind... would you give an example of something you imported from DA:O to DA2 that you really loved about the import system? I'm just trying to get a feel for what exact examples people really liked or felt brought a lot of value.


EDIT: Wow... I read your post and then came back and it EXPLODED in emoticons! LOL 

I know the question wasn't posed to me but I had a mini geek out when it turned out that my mage wardern and hawk were cousins. It was just a cool little reference that wouldn't have happened if they retconned us into cannon hell.

[Flurdt Vash]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I appreciate your response.

If you don't mind... would you give an example of something you imported from DA:O to DA2 that you really loved about the import system? I'm just trying to get a feel for what exact examples people really liked or felt brought a lot of value.


EDIT: Wow... I read your post and then came back and it EXPLODED in emoticons! LOL 

lol Sorry, I always do the emotion faces when I edit for spelling

I would be glad to tell you some of my favorites, I LOVE talking DA . I LOVE when Alistair shows up as King and talks about my Wardne (his wife) or when he notices Issi. I also love when I play a save that had him exiled and he shows up in Hanged Man as a drunk, he talks so much crap it is so funny. The referances Nethanial makes if you play a file that had Anders killed was great, as well as Liliana and Issi meeting if you did the ummm ... errr three some option in DAO at the Pearl. I also love hearing the bar tender talk about Shale. When Merril talks about my Elven Warden, and if I play a save from a differnt game and Merril at least talks with Anders about a Dalish that left to join the Wardens with Duncan.

There is a ton of stuff, but these are some of my favoitres   Im a sucker for story.

Modifié par Flurdt07, 08 novembre 2012 - 05:20 .

[Flurdt Vash]

TheFinalDoctor wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I appreciate your response.

If you don't mind... would you give an example of something you imported from DA:O to DA2 that you really loved about the import system? I'm just trying to get a feel for what exact examples people really liked or felt brought a lot of value.


EDIT: Wow... I read your post and then came back and it EXPLODED in emoticons! LOL 

I know the question wasn't posed to me but I had a mini geek out when it turned out that my mage wardern and hawk were cousins. It was just a cool little reference that wouldn't have happened if they retconned us into cannon hell.

Me Too lol when I played the save from my Human Mage and heard that I about went Super Nerd lol

Modifié par Flurdt07, 08 novembre 2012 - 05:24 .

[TheFinalDoctor]

Flurdt07 wrote...

Me Too lol when I played the save from my Human Mage and heard that I about went Super Nerd lol

The first thing I wanted to do was build a great Amell Dynasty to rule all of Thedas. I would be pretty crazy if every hero could possibly be part of the same family.

[draken-heart]

I have a question for those who are against Save imports. IF Bioware chose to have Hawke as a canon male mage and sided with the mages, Even though you guys made Hawke a female rogue/Warrior and Sided with the templars, Would you be ok with that, OR would you want to have your Choice acknowledged in even the smallest way?

Modifié par draken-heart, 08 novembre 2012 - 05:56 .

[Realmzmaster]

draken-heart wrote...

I have a question for those who are against Save imports. IF Bioware chose to have Hawke as a canon male mage and sided with the mages, Even though you guys made Hawke a female rogue/Warrior and Sided with the templars, Would you be ok with that, OR would you want to have your Choice acknowledged in even the smallest way?

I would be fine with it since I have fifteen different Hawkes of all classes and sexes. I would have absolutely no problem with a canon Hawke. I am not married to any particular Hawke or Warden. I also have thirteen different Wardens of all classes.

I can roleplay just about any character I create or is created for me.  I can make any character my own. That is the way I roleplay and roll.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 08 novembre 2012 - 07:08 .

[draken-heart]

Realmzmaster wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

I have a question for those who are against Save imports. IF Bioware chose to have Hawke as a canon male mage and sided with the mages, Even though you guys made Hawke a female rogue/Warrior and Sided with the templars, Would you be ok with that, OR would you want to have your Choice acknowledged in even the smallest way?

I would be fine with it since I have fifteen different Hawkes of all classes and sexes. I would have absolutely no problem with a canon Hawke. I am not married to any particular Hawke or Warden. I also have thirteen different Wardens of all classes.

I can roleplay just about any character I create or is created for me.  I can make any character my own. That is the way I roleplay and roll.

IT was more of the choice itself and not the character, but whatever, its your brain.

[Flurdt Vash]

TheFinalDoctor wrote...

Flurdt07 wrote...

Me Too lol when I played the save from my Human Mage and heard that I about went Super Nerd lol

The first thing I wanted to do was build a great Amell Dynasty to rule all of Thedas. I would be pretty crazy if every hero could possibly be part of the same family.

You know ..... that is an EPIC idea .   They are making us play human any ways right and Hawke said his mothers side had ties to Orlais in MArk of the Assassin didnt he ?? I could be wrong on that, my DA2 knowledge is not as strong as my DAO, but I remeber something about that conversation in MOTA after doing the Coin Toss side quest . Any way, that would be pretty cool and if it were the case I prolly wouldnt complain so much about not being able to be an Elf

Hay BioWare .. we have an idea lol