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Remove the Save Import


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#451
Guest_EntropicAngel_*

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

If I felt like the games were going to acknowledge any of those choices in any significant way, I'd agree with you.

Unfortunately, I doubt they will. 

With five different Warden origins, three different races, two different genders, a myriad of choices ranging from Isolde to the Circle to killing Genitivi, they are going to avoid touching any topic they can if they feel they can get away with it. At least, if ME2, ME2 and DA2 are any indicators. More than likely, the closest you will get to any reference on these choices is a Codex entry for your Warden (possibly even the same Codex entries we saw in DA2, The History the Fifth Blight) and a Codex entry for your Hawke. Very likely you will get few to no dialogue changes, let alone actual plot/story setups, that will acknowledge these choices.

Again, I'd be happy if I was wrong. But the record seems to indicate that Bioware will avoid the choice completely, rather than try and acknowledge fifty different variations that don't neccessarily tie into the main plot.


Now... if they set a canon? I think a Mage Warden and a Templar Hawke would be a cool idea. But its not my call to make.


I agree, it's not likely they'll address it at all. That isn't the purpose though, is it? That's like someone saying they're RPing and yet they're annoyed when the game doesn't respond like they want it to.

I'd argue they aren't RPing. I'd argue that RPing is about character development, not about the effect your character has on the world.

I'd argue here that the purpose is in creating two opposing heroes simply for the sake of doing so, like any RP.

#452
Fast Jimmy

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draken-heart wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Or, you can play the game because you find it fun, heard of that, playing a game because it is fun? I think you and Realmzmaster think too much on the story and not enough on the aspect of fun in a game.


Enjoying a good story IS fun. At least for me. 

I don't understand your logic. People read books, or see movies or do a myriad of activities that involve a good story for entertainment. Do you think they aren't having fun? Do you think that video games are an inferior medium to telling a good story, that they should only be a bang-bang-pew-pew type of entertainment? Or a dating sim, where you can have sex with your favorite anime doll?


As long as it is a game I can enjoy, the "problems" of the import feature will not show up on my radar. Until the day comes that I cannot enjoy a game because of the imports, I will never agree that Bioware should set canon.


And if the problem continues to compound with each new game and set of choices like I and others fear, that day may not be far off.


It might not though, IF bioware starts putting games on the next-gen consoles, then IF I want to play those games I would have to play with what is on those games, because I would not play my old games on a new console. That is worthless.


Given the huge amount of data people have on their existing consoles (music, videos, DLC, games, signatures, etc.) I have a feeling the next gen consoles will allow a way to transfer media and data from the old console to the new. So I don't think there will be an inherent loss of your import data if the games move to the next-gen consoles.

However, I think BIoware will be moving to a way to select your choices when you create a new character, perhaps a more refined way than the ME2 comic book for the PS3. In that case, the actual import file itself will be gone... although Bioware would still have to be addressing a myriad of different choices, so all the problems are there, minus the need to test for all kinds of file states (which could save some resources).

But then it becomes a matter of "what if they don't ask all the right questions?" What if you had a Warden who romanced Morrigan, then broke up with her and moved on to Leliana, but then wound up doing the Dark Ritual with Morrigan? If Bioware couldn't capture that with a questionaire/checklist/interactive story session and then treaded on that, would there be uproar?

#453
Fast Jimmy

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EntropicAngel wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

If I felt like the games were going to acknowledge any of those choices in any significant way, I'd agree with you.

Unfortunately, I doubt they will. 

With five different Warden origins, three different races, two different genders, a myriad of choices ranging from Isolde to the Circle to killing Genitivi, they are going to avoid touching any topic they can if they feel they can get away with it. At least, if ME2, ME2 and DA2 are any indicators. More than likely, the closest you will get to any reference on these choices is a Codex entry for your Warden (possibly even the same Codex entries we saw in DA2, The History the Fifth Blight) and a Codex entry for your Hawke. Very likely you will get few to no dialogue changes, let alone actual plot/story setups, that will acknowledge these choices.

Again, I'd be happy if I was wrong. But the record seems to indicate that Bioware will avoid the choice completely, rather than try and acknowledge fifty different variations that don't neccessarily tie into the main plot.


Now... if they set a canon? I think a Mage Warden and a Templar Hawke would be a cool idea. But its not my call to make.


I agree, it's not likely they'll address it at all. That isn't the purpose though, is it? That's like someone saying they're RPing and yet they're annoyed when the game doesn't respond like they want it to.

I'd argue they aren't RPing. I'd argue that RPing is about character development, not about the effect your character has on the world.

I'd argue here that the purpose is in creating two opposing heroes simply for the sake of doing so, like any RP.


That's a fair enough argument... however, the other side of the coin with imports is when instead of avoiding the topic, they instead bring the topic up and wind up creating a retcon. Everyone's favorite example being Leliana. In this case,the choice itself is brought back into the game, but the import flag is ignored - she's alive no matter what.

Now, Gaider and team said they had planned on explaining how Leliana is alive, so I don't think its the best example to pick on (althought its now a year and a half later and no explanation is in sight, other than the fact she was near the Urn)... but it is the easiest example.

So just like the complaints about RPing a certain character the game might not support - this is only possible if the game doesn't come in and knock over your head-canon. Sylvius the Mad is a guy who constantly talks about this: he can't play DA2 the way he wants because the game constantly re-asserts that his head-canon isn't right. The same thing can happen with import flags - they can be retconned to say "you were playing the game wrong, THIS is how things should have turned out." And, just as Sylvius would say, being jarred out of that mindset breaks the sense of immersion and ability to truly pull that character-play off.

The imports fall on both sides of the bridge - they cause choices to never be mentioned at all, or they cause some choices to result in a canon, regardless, with very little or no attempt to explain why.

And the few times it walks the straight path of bring the choice back AND having it match the import flag, it only does so with a small dialogue change, a codex entry or a fetch quest. All of which are not the grand outcomes we had hoped when we were crafting such a custom scenario (that would involve over 50 hours of gameplay crossing DA:O and DA2, at a minimum), such as a Mage Warden vs. a Templar Hawke.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 08 novembre 2012 - 08:58 .


#454
draken-heart

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Or, you can play the game because you find it fun, heard of that, playing a game because it is fun? I think you and Realmzmaster think too much on the story and not enough on the aspect of fun in a game.


Enjoying a good story IS fun. At least for me. 

I don't understand your logic. People read books, or see movies or do a myriad of activities that involve a good story for entertainment. Do you think they aren't having fun? Do you think that video games are an inferior medium to telling a good story, that they should only be a bang-bang-pew-pew type of entertainment? Or a dating sim, where you can have sex with your favorite anime doll?


As long as it is a game I can enjoy, the "problems" of the import feature will not show up on my radar. Until the day comes that I cannot enjoy a game because of the imports, I will never agree that Bioware should set canon.


And if the problem continues to compound with each new game and set of choices like I and others fear, that day may not be far off.


It might not though, IF bioware starts putting games on the next-gen consoles, then IF I want to play those games I would have to play with what is on those games, because I would not play my old games on a new console. That is worthless.


Given the huge amount of data people have on their existing consoles (music, videos, DLC, games, signatures, etc.) I have a feeling the next gen consoles will allow a way to transfer media and data from the old console to the new. So I don't think there will be an inherent loss of your import data if the games move to the next-gen consoles.

However, I think BIoware will be moving to a way to select your choices when you create a new character, perhaps a more refined way than the ME2 comic book for the PS3. In that case, the actual import file itself will be gone... although Bioware would still have to be addressing a myriad of different choices, so all the problems are there, minus the need to test for all kinds of file states (which could save some resources).

But then it becomes a matter of "what if they don't ask all the right questions?" What if you had a Warden who romanced Morrigan, then broke up with her and moved on to Leliana, but then wound up doing the Dark Ritual with Morrigan? If Bioware couldn't capture that with a questionaire/checklist/interactive story session and then treaded on that, would there be uproar?


I could live with that, Head canon that my  warden/Hawke and their LI broke up for "safety" reasons.

#455
Fast Jimmy

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draken-heart wrote...

I could live with that, Head canon that my  warden/Hawke and their LI broke up for "safety" reasons.


So you're okay with Bioware setting a canon then?

#456
draken-heart

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

I could live with that, Head canon that my  warden/Hawke and their LI broke up for "safety" reasons.


So you're okay with Bioware setting a canon then?


the book thing mentioned in your post actually. the only way they can do a canon is if none of the characters from the past games were in game or mentioned, AT ALL. That wont work because of the ruler of Ferelden thing, and the king of Orzamar.

Modifié par draken-heart, 08 novembre 2012 - 09:05 .


#457
Guest_EntropicAngel_*

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

That's a fair enough argument... however, the other side of the coin with imports is when instead of avoiding the topic, they instead bring the topic up and wind up creating a retcon. Everyone's favorite example being Leliana. In this case,the choice itself is brought back into the game, but the import flag is ignored - she's alive no matter what.

Now, Gaider and team said they had planned on explaining how Leliana is alive, so I don't think its the best example to pick on (althought its now a year and a half later and no explanation is in sight, other than the fact she was near the Urn)... but it is the easiest example.

So just like the complaints about RPing a certain character the game might not support - this is only possible if the game doesn't come in and knock over your head-canon. Sylvius the Mad is a guy who constantly talks about this: he can't play DA2 the way he wants because the game constantly re-asserts that his head-canon isn't right. The same thing can happen with import flags - they can be retconned to say "you were playing the game wrong, THIS is how things should have turned out." And, just as Sylvius would say, being jarred out of that mindset breaks the sense of immersion and ability to truly pull that character-play off.

The imports fall on both sides of the bridge - they cause choices to never be mentioned at all, or they cause some choices to result in a canon, regardless, with very little or no attempt to explain why.

And the few times it walks the straight path of bring the choice back AND having it match the import flag, it only does so with a small dialogue change, a codex entry or a fetch quest. All of which are not the grand outcomes we had hoped when we were crafting such a custom scenario (that would involve over 50 hours of gameplay crossing DA:O and DA2, at a minimum), such as a Mage Warden vs. a Templar Hawke.


I'll be honest, I find myself agreeing more and more with Sylvius the more I see his arguments. I think you have a point about DA ][. However, on the topic--it sounds like you're saying the "canonizing" of import choices hurts the RP, yes? Which is what I'm arguing.

I should note that (like Sylvius I think) I'm okay with choices having little impact--what matters isn't the impact of the choice, it's the choice itself. Whether I succeeded at X does not matter--it says nothing about my character. What matters is that I chose X--that says something about my character.

So, I'm against canon for that reason.

#458
draken-heart

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EntropicAngel wrote...

I'll be honest, I find myself agreeing more and more with Sylvius the more I see his arguments. I think you have a point about DA ][. However, on the topic--it sounds like you're saying the "canonizing" of import choices hurts the RP, yes? Which is what I'm arguing.

I should note that (like Sylvius I think) I'm okay with choices having little impact--what matters isn't the impact of the choice, it's the choice itself. Whether I succeeded at X does not matter--it says nothing about my character. What matters is that I chose X--that says something about my character.

So, I'm against canon for that reason.


Kind of settles the argument there for me, a little.

#459
Realmzmaster

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draken-heart wrote...


Keep stating your opinion, and maybe one day I might care about it. I guess you do not care about what other people want when it comes to games.

I still think that other people may want their choices acknowledged and a canon might ruin their veiw of the game.


I will keep stating my opinion and my criticism. What other people want is immaterial because they are not spending my money and I am not spending theirs. My opinion is immaterial to them because they are spending their money. Now if my opinion and a group of other people's opinions coincide then that is good because together we can strive for a common goal. Everybody wants something that someone else may not want. It is the developers job to balance those wants and desires. It is not my job. My task is to tell the developers what I want, because I can only speak for myself.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 08 novembre 2012 - 09:39 .


#460
milena87

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draken-heart wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

I'll be honest, I find myself agreeing more and more with Sylvius the more I see his arguments. I think you have a point about DA ][. However, on the topic--it sounds like you're saying the "canonizing" of import choices hurts the RP, yes? Which is what I'm arguing.

I should note that (like Sylvius I think) I'm okay with choices having little impact--what matters isn't the impact of the choice, it's the choice itself. Whether I succeeded at X does not matter--it says nothing about my character. What matters is that I chose X--that says something about my character.

So, I'm against canon for that reason.


Kind of settles the argument there for me, a little.


But then I would question: if the most important thing is the choice itself why have an import system for the next game?

Our character in each game would still make his/her choices and we may or may not see the consequences of his/her actions in the game. Setting a canon for the next game would not prevent us from shaping our new character, but it would give the world of Thedas a chance to see the consequences to some of the choices that the Warden / Hawke / DA3's protagonist made.

#461
jillabender

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Entropic Angel wrote…

Fast Jimmy wrote…

So just like the complaints about RPing a certain character the game might not support - this is only possible if the game doesn't come in and knock over your head-canon. Sylvius the Mad is a guy who constantly talks about this: he can't play DA2 the way he wants because the game constantly re-asserts that his head-canon isn't right. The same thing can happen with import flags - they can be retconned to say "you were playing the game wrong, THIS is how things should have turned out." And, just as Sylvius would say, being jarred out of that mindset breaks the sense of immersion and ability to truly pull that character-play off.

The imports fall on both sides of the bridge - they cause choices to never be mentioned at all, or they cause some choices to result in a canon, regardless, with very little or no attempt to explain why.

And the few times it walks the straight path of bring the choice back AND having it match the import flag, it only does so with a small dialogue change, a codex entry or a fetch quest. All of which are not the grand outcomes we had hoped when we were crafting such a custom scenario (that would involve over 50 hours of gameplay crossing DA:O and DA2, at a minimum), such as a Mage Warden vs. a Templar Hawke.



I'll be honest, I find myself agreeing more and more with Sylvius the more I see his arguments. I think you have a point about DA ][. However, on the topic--it sounds like you're saying the "canonizing" of import choices hurts the RP, yes? Which is what I'm arguing.

I should note that (like Sylvius I think) I'm okay with choices having little impact--what matters isn't the impact of the choice, it's the choice itself. Whether I succeeded at X does not matter--it says nothing about my character. What matters is that I chose X--that says something about my character.


I realize this is a moot point, since David Gaider has stated that they won't be removing the save imports, but personally, my problem with the save imports isn't that they might be done in a way that seems to violate my "head-canon."

My issue with the save imports is that I would prefer for the writers to be able to use the story elements that they want to from previous games without needing to worry about contradicting choices that players made in those previous games.

I love my Wardens, and I love giving them vivid personalities and character arcs, but as far as the sequels are concerned, I don't have a strong need to feel that a character who refers to the Hero of Ferelden is talking about my Warden. I realize that many people do, and that's fine – maybe I feel differently because I've created so many Wardens, and I don't have a particular one who I consider my "canon" character.

When it comes to story choices within games, I love being able to make choices that say something interesting about my character, and to see those choices affect the overall story. But I don't feel any need for those choices to be reflected in the sequel. When it comes to mentioning choices and plot threads from previous games, the only thing I'm concerned with is that they contribute to an interesting story.

I feel like a bit of a jerk for saying this, but I found that some of DA2's references to events in Origins felt shoe-horned in, and a bit distracting.

If BioWare established a set series of events that allowed them to weave plot threads from the previous game into the narrative of the new one in interesting ways, I would be fine with that – even if that set series of events didn't match the way the story played out in my game.

With that being said, I respect that many people feel differently, and I have faith that BioWare will improve their handling of the save imports, even if the approach they end up taking isn't quite what I'd prefer.

Modifié par jillabender, 08 novembre 2012 - 10:33 .


#462
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milena87 wrote...

But then I would question: if the most important thing is the choice itself why have an import system for the next game?

Our character in each game would still make his/her choices and we may or may not see the consequences of his/her actions in the game. Setting a canon for the next game would not prevent us from shaping our new character, but it would give the world of Thedas a chance to see the consequences to some of the choices that the Warden / Hawke / DA3's protagonist made.


I explained this in a previous post. A canon prevents me from creating juxtaposing Wardens and Hawkes.

#463
Flurdt Vash

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I was thinking of something BioWare did with Mass 2 on PS3 =]. I have already said that "I love the save file import option.", and I have given many reason for it. However, I can also see the point of view for people wanting to get away from it, or feeling that relying on said option could take away from the development of the game, because BioWare would be spending more time on what branches people took from prior games :?. So, with that in mind, I was thinking about how when Mass 2 hit PS3 BioWare did a comic type version of Mass 1. The first game wasn't on PS so this was kinda a cool idea. You went threw the decisions in a narrative, and chose the options to create a pseudo Mass 1 save file for Mass 2 :bandit:.

This was pretty neat in my opinion, and to be honest I think it would be a cool tool to use to maybe appeal to both sides of the argument. BioWare could pick a specific direction to go and offer an animated or comic style origin option that could be chosen so plot out lines could be selected that would benefit or enhance the story for which ever game i.e. DA4, 6 whatever :wizard:.

When next gen consuls hit, this would be a good opportunity for new and old players to get into the game. Also BioWare wouldn't have to take all the variant game options from the past into consideration, only the ones that would or could effect that specific story line. I liked the pre gen origins in DA2, I used my save files of course, but after playing with that Comic Origin creator that came with my sons version of Mass 2 *cough cough* :innocent:, I saw how that would really have benefited DA2.

We could all still play the games and make any significant decisions we like, but when the next game comes, use that style of Origin creation to set up the new play threw :o.

This was just a thought of course, after reading a few of the arguments from both sides it just seemed like a cool idea. Well, to me anyways :lol: 

What do you guys think?

Modifié par Flurdt07, 08 novembre 2012 - 10:01 .


#464
milena87

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EntropicAngel wrote...

milena87 wrote...

But then I would question: if the most important thing is the choice itself why have an import system for the next game?

Our character in each game would still make his/her choices and we may or may not see the consequences of his/her actions in the game. Setting a canon for the next game would not prevent us from shaping our new character, but it would give the world of Thedas a chance to see the consequences to some of the choices that the Warden / Hawke / DA3's protagonist made.


I explained this in a previous post. A canon prevents me from creating juxtaposing Wardens and Hawkes.


Ok, let's say that we import a pro-mages Warden and a pro-templars Hawke, why should the protagonist of DA3 care? He/she won't see the world of Thedas changed by the actions of the two previous heroes (not in a significant way anyway), so why should they matter?

Each character we create works in the context given by the DA team: in terms of roleplaying a character, a game where no references are made to the previous choices (apart from a cameo or a comment here and there) would be a totally different experience from a game where we see the consequences of some of the choices we could have made?
I don't think so, as we would have to create new motivations for this character anyway and he/she would act in the world given to him/her.

I guess I just don't agree that a canon would limit roleplaying, especially because each DA game has a new protagonist, is set in another part of the world and in a different time frame.

#465
Archyyy

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That would entirely ruin my characters from DA:O and DA2. If bioware writes a canon for them then everything I did in those games just got deleted in the third. Save import is the best way to keep my story intact and it doesnt limit the writers if they just take the time to write outcomes for all the importable decisions. Takes more time but between getting a bad game fast or a good game not so fast I'll go for the second option.

#466
Petr0nella

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 I liked having my DA:O choices acknowledged in DA:2, but I preferred it when that came in conversation with my companions e.g. discussing whether Aveline would return to Ferelden now that there's a new King/Queen, rather than the cameos that often felt contrived. 

My preference would be to keep the save import, but I could live with it only picking up big decisions.

#467
hawat333

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Don't. It's a nice addition.

#468
Heimdall

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I like save imports because they promote a feeling of continuity in the world. In all truth, it doesn't bother me that the previous protagonist's actions have little impact, but what little impact they do have reinforces the sense that this is the same universe I journeyed through before. That matters to me quite a lot. I expect impact from my current character's decisions, but I'm content that my previous character's decisions have largely only flavor effect.

Creating a canon would disappoint me and ruin the continuity of my world.

#469
Sidney

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Lord Aesir wrote...

I like save imports because they promote a feeling of continuity in the world. In all truth, it doesn't bother me that the previous protagonist's actions have little impact, but what little impact they do have reinforces the sense that this is the same universe I journeyed through before. That matters to me quite a lot. I expect impact from my current character's decisions, but I'm content that my previous character's decisions have largely only flavor effect.

Creating a canon would disappoint me and ruin the continuity of my world.


I like continuity. I don't like the way some things are done and really I understand almost have to be done due to costs and timelines. The rachni queen thing in ME3 being high on the list of shoe horning decisions into a story for example.

I'd almost prefer that the DA* series was more about the age than about the story of my characters in it. I might expect a passing acknowledgement that I did X in a previous game but trying to keep consistent with so many possible outcomes just gets mess and forces not really apt solutions onto the game.

#470
Taint Master

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Sidney wrote...



I'd almost prefer that the DA* series was more about the age than about the story of my characters in it. I might expect a passing acknowledgement that I did X in a previous game but trying to keep consistent with so many possible outcomes just gets mess and forces not really apt solutions onto the game.

Exactly, the more story possibilities they have to cover the thinner their resources are stretched and the less in depth the stories become.  Make dark ritual canon and we'll have a fantastic foundation for an epic story arc in DA3.

Bioware did this with KOTOR 1/2 and SWTOR in regards to Revan and the Exile.  It could be done here.

#471
Snypy

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

Snypy wrote...

 Why are you guys still arguing? It's been said the import feature will stay in DA games.


Its been said the import feautre will be in DA3. That's not the same thing as "it will be in DA games." Which implies a certian level of perpetuity.


I have to disagree with you on that. This is what Mr. Gaider said:

"As I've said here and elsewhere, how we're doing imports is something we'll eventually address. The issue for us has always been how to do it better, not whether to do it at all. Not doing it at all would be something to consider for some other game series that isn't Dragon Age."

#472
esper

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milena87 wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

milena87 wrote...

But then I would question: if the most important thing is the choice itself why have an import system for the next game?

Our character in each game would still make his/her choices and we may or may not see the consequences of his/her actions in the game. Setting a canon for the next game would not prevent us from shaping our new character, but it would give the world of Thedas a chance to see the consequences to some of the choices that the Warden / Hawke / DA3's protagonist made.


I explained this in a previous post. A canon prevents me from creating juxtaposing Wardens and Hawkes.


Ok, let's say that we import a pro-mages Warden and a pro-templars Hawke, why should the protagonist of DA3 care? He/she won't see the world of Thedas changed by the actions of the two previous heroes (not in a significant way anyway), so why should they matter?

Each character we create works in the context given by the DA team: in terms of roleplaying a character, a game where no references are made to the previous choices (apart from a cameo or a comment here and there) would be a totally different experience from a game where we see the consequences of some of the choices we could have made?
I don't think so, as we would have to create new motivations for this character anyway and he/she would act in the world given to him/her.

I guess I just don't agree that a canon would limit roleplaying, especially because each DA game has a new protagonist, is set in another part of the world and in a different time frame.


Canon limits roleplay in the way that the metaknowlegde goes back and destroy my enjoyment off the prior game. For example I will never pick up kotor 1 or 2 now because I know who the canon Revan and Exile am.

I guess it is an effect of a lot of games where I could pick between male and female gender, then the sequel would come out and canonize the former protagonist as a typical white male. Any enjoyment I had playing the former game began to disminized because I experienced the same thing again and again and each time I had the nagging little feeling that I was never experiencing the true story and all thus was for naught. That feeling grew and grew each time I experienced it. And that wasn't even roleplaying games, but simple other types of games where gender was the only choice.

Roleplaying games double that effect like a thousand times because now it was not just gender that was the issue, but the whole off who was the person down to personality.

My warden was a naive elven mage, who was dragged into a world she didn't understand, fell in love with an assassin and grew into a jaded selfish persons that she by the end off Awakening no longer would care if the world burned around her, because she only has a very little limited time left in the world anyway.

If that warden is ever canonized into a male warden who fell in love with Morrigan, my enjoyment off da:o would vaporize because I would now know that I was not experiencing the 'true' story.

A lot of games which offer choice I have simple stopped purchasing the sequels (if they are direct sequels and has to do with the same persons) simply because I will rather miss out on the new game than I will in retrorespect destroy the experience of a game I already enjoy. For example I am off the current Atelier triology which is irritating because I love the Atelier series, but... I simply cannot enjoy Totori because Totori ruins Rorona for me, so I have to wait untill the Arland saga is over and the setting changes to a new place and new people.

I don't expect big branching choice from the save import (that is in my opionen better left for the game itself) but I do expect the small flavor of a regnozation that my former warden and my former Hawke wasn't the 'untrue' story. My it seems petty to some, but as a person who has time and time again gotten her former games and endings dismissed as non-cannon, it becomes important.

#473
draken-heart

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milena87 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

I'll be honest, I find myself agreeing more and more with Sylvius the more I see his arguments. I think you have a point about DA ][. However, on the topic--it sounds like you're saying the "canonizing" of import choices hurts the RP, yes? Which is what I'm arguing.

I should note that (like Sylvius I think) I'm okay with choices having little impact--what matters isn't the impact of the choice, it's the choice itself. Whether I succeeded at X does not matter--it says nothing about my character. What matters is that I chose X--that says something about my character.

So, I'm against canon for that reason.


Kind of settles the argument there for me, a little.


But then I would question: if the most important thing is the choice itself why have an import system for the next game?

Our character in each game would still make his/her choices and we may or may not see the consequences of his/her actions in the game. Setting a canon for the next game would not prevent us from shaping our new character, but it would give the world of Thedas a chance to see the consequences to some of the choices that the Warden / Hawke / DA3's protagonist made.


The post was saying that it was not the impact of the choice that mattered but the FACT that choice x was made instead of choice y. Some of us would rather have a brief acknowledgement that choice x was made in the past games and not have it canonized that choice y was made.

Plus removing save imports at this point, and maybe beyond for the next few, unless there were years/decades/centuries between games, would be more like breaking a promise than making a prudent buisness decision.*

*go to swtor.com and look up the forum thread for SGRA's, that is a prime example of what happens when you promise something that you cannot delivier right away.

Modifié par draken-heart, 08 novembre 2012 - 07:57 .


#474
Fast Jimmy

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draken-heart wrote...

milena87 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

I'll be honest, I find myself agreeing more and more with Sylvius the more I see his arguments. I think you have a point about DA ][. However, on the topic--it sounds like you're saying the "canonizing" of import choices hurts the RP, yes? Which is what I'm arguing.

I should note that (like Sylvius I think) I'm okay with choices having little impact--what matters isn't the impact of the choice, it's the choice itself. Whether I succeeded at X does not matter--it says nothing about my character. What matters is that I chose X--that says something about my character.

So, I'm against canon for that reason.


Kind of settles the argument there for me, a little.


But then I would question: if the most important thing is the choice itself why have an import system for the next game?

Our character in each game would still make his/her choices and we may or may not see the consequences of his/her actions in the game. Setting a canon for the next game would not prevent us from shaping our new character, but it would give the world of Thedas a chance to see the consequences to some of the choices that the Warden / Hawke / DA3's protagonist made.


The post was saying that it was not the impact of the choice that mattered but the FACT that choice x was made instead of choice y. Some of us would rather have a brief acknowledgement that choice x was made in the past games and not have it canonized that choice y was made.


And what if choice x was canonized and developed into an awesome story you loved, one you loved just as much, if not more, than the story you saw the first time?

Would that not be enjoyable? Or would you still say "even though Bioware chose my choice and really devleoped it in a cool and meaningful way... their games suck! Because canon is evil."

#475
draken-heart

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

milena87 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

I'll be honest, I find myself agreeing more and more with Sylvius the more I see his arguments. I think you have a point about DA ][. However, on the topic--it sounds like you're saying the "canonizing" of import choices hurts the RP, yes? Which is what I'm arguing.

I should note that (like Sylvius I think) I'm okay with choices having little impact--what matters isn't the impact of the choice, it's the choice itself. Whether I succeeded at X does not matter--it says nothing about my character. What matters is that I chose X--that says something about my character.

So, I'm against canon for that reason.


Kind of settles the argument there for me, a little.


But then I would question: if the most important thing is the choice itself why have an import system for the next game?

Our character in each game would still make his/her choices and we may or may not see the consequences of his/her actions in the game. Setting a canon for the next game would not prevent us from shaping our new character, but it would give the world of Thedas a chance to see the consequences to some of the choices that the Warden / Hawke / DA3's protagonist made.


The post was saying that it was not the impact of the choice that mattered but the FACT that choice x was made instead of choice y. Some of us would rather have a brief acknowledgement that choice x was made in the past games and not have it canonized that choice y was made.


And what if choice x was canonized and developed into an awesome story you loved, one you loved just as much, if not more, than the story you saw the first time?

Would that not be enjoyable? Or would you still say "even though Bioware chose my choice and really devleoped it in a cool and meaningful way... their games suck! Because canon is evil."


I may end up wanting to try a different world (read choices that define it). IF a choice was canonized then it would be the same world every time I play, and that would get boring down the road.

Need more of an explanation?