895 réponses à ce sujet

[slimgrin]

I have yet to see a single save import from either Bioware or CDPR that means squat. They are pointless. A waste of time.

[AbsoluteApril]

save imports and 'choices matter and carry-over' is one of the major draws for why I love Bioware. so I'll have to vote no

[King Cousland]

Vicious wrote...

I would have thrown out every cameo and 'carried over choice' in DA2 for more time spent making Act 3 and the rest of the game not suck.

And i would do it again for DA3. Most would. This isn't Mass Effect, i'm not playing the same guy over and over. My next protagonist doesn't know who the hell these people are and doesn't care.

The cameos and choices carried over to DA II were very poorly chosen. The choices made in Origins would realistically have had very little impact on DA II's story anyway, but that won't necessarily be the case in future games. 

Besides, DA II's plot failures can't be blamed on a few cameos. I'm doubtful that removing them would have improved the quality.  

[Vicious]

Variety is the spice of life. One set cannon renders a game dull and not worth replaying.

Kinda like how nobody replays TES: Morrowind, right?


Seriously, i would like the import feature, but if it comes at the cost of wasting development time and a mediocre overall plot, in other words, a game like DA2, then i say can the feature or minimize what they take and move on. And if it makes virtually no difference in gameplay or story, then again, minimize or remove it.


What does it matter who the Warden romanced... why am i running into them... why are they mentioning their 'love.' to me, if for no other reason than blatant fan service... the same fans who will turn around and slam them when the game itself isn't that good.

[marshalleck]

AbsoluteApril wrote...

save imports and 'choices matter and carry-over' is one of the major draws for why I love Bioware. so I'll have to vote no

Except so far it's like this:

Choices Matter
Saves carry over

Pick one.

Get rid of the import and let the writers explore themes more deeply than they can when they have to take into account a dozen different variables.

Modifié par marshalleck, 05 octobre 2012 - 10:27 .

[slimgrin]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

By excluding imports and enforcing a specific cannon, you render the games played by a great number of people wasted effort.

Yes. Like all those meaningful Mass Effect 2 imports. 

[Yalision]

I'd simply like an alternative to importing. Perhaps where my Warden is very, very dead, but I get to decide what happened during Awakening definitively. I refuse the Dark Ritual, period.

[Masha Potato]

I was actually pretty content with how it turned out for kotor2 for example. Maybe decisions should be taken as a thing in itself, without being carried out to the next game. It IS possible to keep games connected enough without referencing the major events of the first chapter in the second one. If that makes sense. That's actually pretty much what DA2 did. So, uh, i guess i don't care about the import either way

[Stippling]

You're only wasting development resources if you're slapping on cameos for no reason. If the king of Ferelden needs to be involved in the plot, have the import check and see who that is, or if its a queen etc. You don't set a precedence in a game and take it away instead of improving on it.

There's a large difference between fan service cameos and importing plot points that need to carry over.

[King Cousland]

marshalleck wrote...

King Cousland wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

I can't say I would be bothered if it were removed. None of the decisions seem to make a difference.

They haven't been so far. They doesn't mean they won't be. 

It shocks me how many people favour the establishment of a canon. What's the point of role playing at all if everything our character did will be steamrolled with a big, fat "NOPE."?

LOL. 

RPGs didn't exist before Mass Effect, amirite?

LOL.

At which point did I imply that? If your argument is that past RPGs which haven't offered imports but did include in-game choices often established a canon or side-stepped the issue of previous decisions all together, I'm well aware. That doesn't make the proposal any more or less distasteful to me. 

[marshalleck]

King Cousland wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

King Cousland wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

I can't say I would be bothered if it were removed. None of the decisions seem to make a difference.

They haven't been so far. They doesn't mean they won't be. 

It shocks me how many people favour the establishment of a canon. What's the point of role playing at all if everything our character did will be steamrolled with a big, fat "NOPE."?

LOL. 

RPGs didn't exist before Mass Effect, amirite?

LOL.

At which point did I imply that? 

When you essentially stated:  "roleplay has no value if choices don't carry across games"

Modifié par marshalleck, 05 octobre 2012 - 10:31 .

[King Cousland]

Stippling wrote...

You're only wasting development resources if you're slapping on cameos for no reason. If the king of Ferelden needs to be involved in the plot, have the import check and see who that is, or if its a queen etc. You don't set a precedence in a game and take it away instead of improving on it.

There's a large difference between fan service cameos and importing plot points that need to carry over.

Precisely. Only previous choices which could affect the current plot should be given a nod. 

[deuce985]

slimgrin wrote...

I have yet to see a single save import from either Bioware or CDPR that means squat. They are pointless. A waste of time.

Perhaps to you.

Take Mass Effect for example, talking to my companions and them remembering a previous conversation is pretty impactful for me personally. It makes them feel more genuine and alive. Like we've shared adventures together and they remember that. Or all those "minor" NPCs throughout three games I helped. The lives I changed. Heck, even ole Conrad Verner. How about me slapping the news reporter for her disingenuous assertions? I still bested her in ME3 after she adapted! Ha!

When you look at a single import, maybe it's minor. But when I look back at it as a whole, i'd say it's a pretty big feature. One reason I loved the ME universe is because it really felt like I was impacting it. No matter how artificial it felt, it still made the universe feel personal to me. With that, I think they accomplished their goal.

[Wulfram]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

By excluding imports and enforcing a specific cannon, you render the games played by a great number of people wasted effort. So I highly disagree with this idea.

Besides, these would be variables based on player events reduced to T/F (True/False) values, not direct imports of a load of data for every detail of conversational choices and character models.

Variety is the spice of life. One set cannon renders a game dull and not worth replaying.

The trivialisation of choices in prior games that is forced by importing does far more to make games into a wasted effort.

[MillKill]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

By excluding imports and enforcing a specific cannon, you render the games played by a great number of people wasted effort. So I highly disagree with this idea.

Besides, these would be variables based on player events reduced to T/F (True/False) values, not direct imports of a load of data for every detail of conversational choices and character models.

Variety is the spice of life. One set cannon renders a game dull and not worth replaying.

Which is why nobody ever replayed a sequel to an RPG before Mass effect 2.

Seeing consequences of your actions in-game is great. Variety among playthroughs and consistency within a playthrough is outstanding, but it shouldn't restrict future games.

If you want to know why the canon of the sequel differs from your playthrough, just pretend one of them is an elseworlds story and use headcanon.

[King Cousland]

marshalleck wrote...

King Cousland wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

King Cousland wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

I can't say I would be bothered if it were removed. None of the decisions seem to make a difference.

They haven't been so far. They doesn't mean they won't be. 

It shocks me how many people favour the establishment of a canon. What's the point of role playing at all if everything our character did will be steamrolled with a big, fat "NOPE."?

LOL. 

RPGs didn't exist before Mass Effect, amirite?

LOL.

At which point did I imply that? 

When you essentially stated: "you can't roleplay if choices don't carry across games"

My point was that an essential part of role-playing in Dragon Age is making choices. Those choices can shape and define a PC's personality. If we're going to ignore those choices all together, what's the point of our previous characters even having a personality or individualism at all? If a canon were established and Alistair, for example, were made king in it, then my Warden would effectively have not existed, as crowning Alistair was in direct conflict with his personality. 

[slimgrin]

deuce985 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I have yet to see a single save import from either Bioware or CDPR that means squat. They are pointless. A waste of time.

Perhaps to you.

Take Mass Effect for example, talking to my companions and them remembering a previous conversation is pretty impactful for me personally. It makes them feel more genuine and alive. Like we've shared adventures together and they remember that. Or all those "minor" NPCs throughout three games I helped. The lives I changed. Heck, even ole Conrad Verner. How about me slapping the news reporter for her disingenuous assertions? I still bested her in ME3 after she adapted! Ha!

When you look at a single import, maybe it's minor. But when I look back at it as a whole, i'd say it's a pretty big feature. One reason I loved the ME universe is because it really felt like I was impacting it. No matter how artificial it felt, it still made the universe feel personal to me. With that, I think they accomplished their goal.

Imports are impractical. Too much and they alienate newcomers. Too little and people like me will cry gimmick. It's a no win concept. Effort is better spent on more imortant stuff.

Modifié par slimgrin, 05 octobre 2012 - 10:38 .

[Vicious]

My point was that an essential part of role-playing in Dragon Age is making choices. Those choices can shape and define a PC's personality. If we're going to ignore those choices all together, what's the point of our previous characters even having a personality or individualism at all?

Because it makes a good game while you're playing it... to address your specific point.

That said I actually agree with you when you say 'they should just keep the DA-3 main plot related stuff and throw out the fanwank' [paraphrased] Because, well, that's what they should do.

Otherwise Bioware just wastes their time on Fenris Zevran and Isabella cameos [to name a few] and people smile for 2 seconds then go on the BSN to rail about how pointless their appearances were, or how they shouldn't be there in the first place because 'IN MY HEADCANNON...' [thus making it pointless.

Because hey, it happened with DA2.

[Quicksilver26]

I love the save imports!
it's the only thing that keeps the series mine i for one do not want some straight male hero running around saving everyone and everything i like having it be mine. (which is a lesbian woman who romanced Leliana and tried save everyone she could and got Loghain to kill the Archdemon) that matters to me

[Icesong]

They could just not reuse characters and storylines instead.

[slimgrin]

Quicksilver26 wrote...

I love the save imports!
it's the only thing that keeps the series mine i for one do not want some straight male hero running around saving everyone

http://t2.gstatic.co...Xm3hQx4rJ5UQD63

[marshalleck]

Icesong wrote...

They could just not reuse characters and storylines instead.

but how would our sexuality character choices be validated!?!

[TCBC_Freak]

You know that if you don't import a save from DA:O with Nathaniel Howell being alive then you miss the quest that give you Varric's last armor upgrade. Meaning that the import can have a actual in game effect.

That's not to say I think the OP is wrong. So long as they are open and honest I'm fine with playing a game that has no carry over, where each game is a set story, like, "Oh, by the way, that DA2 you played was just what Varric told the Seeker, it really happened a little different."

[Icesong]

marshalleck wrote...

Icesong wrote...

They could just not reuse characters and storylines instead.

but how would our sexuality character choices be validated!?!

Is that Arcanum?