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Remove the Save Import


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#576
Realmzmaster

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LobselVith8 wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The choice and the consequence both get carried over, because at the end of DAO it states in the epilogue slide ending exactly what was the consequence of the choice. So the consequence is what gets carried over. Examplke if the warden chooses Bhelen the consequence of that choice appears in DA2 with Lord Renvil Harrowmont on the run because Bhelen has systematically assassinated every other Harrowmont. 


[Cunning] Weren't epilogue slides declared to be non-canon? 


As soon as the developers started contradicting them by bringing people back to life and changing the outcomes of certain slides...


Which invalidated the choices gamers made in DAO. If the slides are non-canon then why were they present at the end of the game? The writers saw that certain events in DAO painted them into a corner when it came to telling other stories in the next game or expansion of the series. The easy out is to declare epilogue slides non-canon which allows the writers to bring back the dead and overrule the choices made.

#577
Guest_EntropicAngel_*

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LobselVith8 wrote...

As soon as the developers started contradicting them by bringing people back to life and changing the outcomes of certain slides...


If you mean Anders, sure. If you mean Leliana, I disagree with your assertion that she was brought back to life--at least until we get the DA ]|[ explanation that David mentioned.

#578
Dragoonlordz

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

To be fair, Gaider did not say they would NEVER stop the import, just that they won't now and aren't looking at in the future. Not inherently the same thing.

For what it's worth, I'd bet every dime I have in my pockets that the new IP Bioware has been discussing will NOT involve the Save Import.


If it's an SP related game franchise like DA or ME with RPG elements I bet it will have export/import system. If it's a racing or strategy, MMO or other genre you might be right.


I disagree. I think that even if it is a SP RPG, they won't touch the Save Import. Heck, if given a time machine, I'd bet Gaider and Laidlaw would go back to their 2007 selves and scream "NO! Don't do it!"

Instead, they probably said "that sounds like a problem Future Mike/Dave will deal with." /How I Met Your Mother Reference. 


Then we must agree to disagree. The only DG can say if regrets adding it to previous games so it's possible to get resolution or an answer on that if he choses to do so and only the one incharge of the next IP can say if wishes to have such system in that IP of which I do not know who is heading it up. But from my perspective they will add it to the next IP if they are making another action/adventure with RPG elements while you think they would not.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 17 janvier 2013 - 12:08 .


#579
LobselVith8

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EntropicAngel wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

As soon as the developers started contradicting them by bringing people back to life and changing the outcomes of certain slides... 


If you mean Anders, sure. If you mean Leliana, I disagree with your assertion that she was brought back to life--at least until we get the DA ]|[ explanation that David mentioned. 


Oghren came back to life in Awakening if The Warden killed him at the camp in Origins. If The Warden kills Leliana, it's mentioned in the codex, and even the coding for Origins reads that she's now dead. If Leliana is alive after she was killed by The Warden, it's a change from the narrative of Origins. 

Also, Justice and Anders meet even if Justice was killed in the Dragonborn Wastes and Anders was never recruited. The slide that mentions Anders' death was changed for the story because the writers brought Anders to Kirkwall instead of Velanna.

#580
SparksMKII

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EntropicAngel wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

As soon as the developers started contradicting them by bringing people back to life and changing the outcomes of certain slides...


If you mean Anders, sure. If you mean Leliana, I disagree with your assertion that she was brought back to life--at least until we get the DA ]|[ explanation that David mentioned.


Well you could kill Leliana if you chose to defile the ashes or she could commit suicide if you did the US and had a non hardened Leliana romance. That was one of the saddest epilogue slides I ever read in a game, my LI not being able to handle her lover making the ultimate sacrifice to save all of Ferelden and thus decides to end her own life as well. Both ways she ends up pretty dead to me.

I'd really hate to have this retconned to something like "she faked her own death to start a new life again", the only way for her to return in my game is through cheaply hand waiving her death or involving a benevolent fade spirit that somehow grants her life again (both are pretty cheap tricks if you ask me so not particularly fond of either).

Something about choices and the consequenses they should have but maybe mr. Gaider can surprise me pleasantly with his explanation on the matter.

Back on the save import matter again, eventually if the franchise continues to expand with more and more games then inevitably they're going to end up writing themselves into a corner. At some point they'll probably have to drop the feature and start with a clean slate again to give us the story they want to tell us.

It works for ME because that was always intended to be a trilogy so you only have to deal with 2 games recognizing your choices, afaik DA isn't intended to be a trilogy so somewhere down the line it has to end for the DA franchise to evolve in the direction BW intends.

Modifié par SparksMKII, 16 janvier 2013 - 10:19 .


#581
Knight of Dane

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LobselVith8 wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

As soon as the developers started contradicting them by bringing people back to life and changing the outcomes of certain slides... 


If you mean Anders, sure. If you mean Leliana, I disagree with your assertion that she was brought back to life--at least until we get the DA ]|[ explanation that David mentioned. 


Oghren came back to life in Awakening if The Warden killed him at the camp in Origins. If The Warden kills Leliana, it's mentioned in the codex, and even the coding for Origins reads that she's now dead. If Leliana is alive after she was killed by The Warden, it's a change from the narrative of Origins. 

Also, Justice and Anders meet even if Justice was killed in the Dragonborn Wastes and Anders was never recruited. The slide that mentions Anders' death was changed for the story because the writers brought Anders to Kirkwall instead of Velanna.

Velanna was going to Kirkwall?

#582
LobselVith8

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Knight of Dane wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Oghren came back to life in Awakening if The Warden killed him at the camp in Origins. If The Warden kills Leliana, it's mentioned in the codex, and even the coding for Origins reads that she's now dead. If Leliana is alive after she was killed by The Warden, it's a change from the narrative of Origins. 

Also, Justice and Anders meet even if Justice was killed in the Dragonborn Wastes and Anders was never recruited. The slide that mentions Anders' death was changed for the story because the writers brought Anders to Kirkwall instead of Velanna. 


Velanna was going to Kirkwall? 


Gaider said that the idea was that Velanna was going to go to Kirkwall, and that was changed to Anders.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 16 janvier 2013 - 10:29 .


#583
Wulfram

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If it was Velanna they'd have had to bring the elves in a whole lot more, I guess. Velanna isn't going to go around blowing stuff up just for a bunch of shem'len.

#584
Malanek

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Interesting. Anders was definitely a better fit for the story they had. It could of course have been written differently but I wonder where Merill fits into that. I can't see both of them being in the same story, I wonder if Valena was cut before or because of Merill being added.

#585
SparksMKII

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Malanek999 wrote...

Interesting. Anders was definitely a better fit for the story they had. It could of course have been written differently but I wonder where Merill fits into that. I can't see both of them being in the same story, I wonder if Valena was cut before or because of Merill being added.


It's probably because people got more attached to Anders then to Velanna so there'd be a bigger "shock" value reaction from us players.

#586
Knight of Dane

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Yeah, I killed Velanna in my games too..

#587
Aytanay

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I like hearing Alistair saying he isn't afraid of the his wife just because she killed an archdemon, so I say keep the import. And it annoyed me so much to see Zevran alive even though I killed him in my last save.

#588
Knight of Dane

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I hope my warden's can be named in the following games, they did all have set last names after all, things like comparing my Amell warden to her cousin the champion or "King Cousland"

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 17 janvier 2013 - 12:36 .


#589
Twisted Path

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Knight of Dane wrote...

Yeah, I killed Velanna in my games too..


She's kind of presented as a crazy murderer when you first meet her so I imagine she's the potential warden that's most likely to get killed in Awakenings.

#590
Knight of Dane

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Indeed, I have had games where I have reqruited her, however those were only with a Dalish Warden.

And still I did not like her she just stays a bitter *****.

#591
Renmiri1

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Hell no, keep the save imports. You don't have to use it if you don't like it

#592
Malanek

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Renmiri1 wrote...

Hell no, keep the save imports. You don't have to use it if you don't like it

Have you actually read even a small number of posts in the thread? Everybody is effected by it whether they use it or not because it places restrictions on the story elements from previous games.

#593
Renmiri1

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Malanek999 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Hell no, keep the save imports. You don't have to use it if you don't like it

Have you actually read even a small number of posts in the thread? Everybody is effected by it whether they use it or not because it places restrictions on the story elements from previous games.


So what ?

#594
bla2

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i like the save imports i just hope they take the Mass effect 2 on PS3 approach for DA3. i lost all of my saves (200+ hours of gameplay) due to the PS3's yellow light of death. I'd like it if they had some sort of interactive comic or checklist where you can just pick what happened in the previous games (including the DLCs and expansions preferably). That way i could continue the stories of my wardens and hawkes without the saves.

#595
Malanek

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Renmiri1 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Hell no, keep the save imports. You don't have to use it if you don't like it

Have you actually read even a small number of posts in the thread? Everybody is effected by it whether they use it or not because it places restrictions on the story elements from previous games.


So what ?

Your one argument was that you can chose not to use it. You do not have a choice to avoid the negative consequences of the system.

#596
Renmiri1

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Malanek999 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Hell no, keep the save imports. You don't have to use it if you don't like it

Have you actually read even a small number of posts in the thread? Everybody is effected by it whether they use it or not because it places restrictions on the story elements from previous games.


So what ?

Your one argument was that you can chose not to use it. You do not have a choice to avoid the negative consequences of the system.


Well.. when the company developing the cake announces it is going to be a chocolate cake, similar to their world famous past cakes and you hate chocolate and hated the past cakes, I advise you to go down the street and buy your Vanilla cake that is made by thousands of others. :lol:

Modifié par Renmiri1, 17 janvier 2013 - 02:55 .


#597
MoMan313

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I- what?

no.
no.
no.
times a biajillion

What in mercy's name? That's the whole freaking reason why I play bioware games, BECAUSE you can choose the direction of it..

I never really LIKED linear stories, if I wanted that, crap I would play CoD

Becuase you can choose, its WHY I love bioware games ABOVE ALL OTHER GAMES.

I have EVERYGAME They made! except the 2 with the dog and their first game, but all else.. I have it!

So, no, I implore ye no. no no no.

#598
Malanek

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MoMan, can you give some examples of how the save game import function made DA2 a less linear story?

#599
Fast Jimmy

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Renmiri1 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Hell no, keep the save imports. You don't have to use it if you don't like it[/b]

Have you actually read even a small number of posts in the thread? Everybody is effected by it whether they use it or not because it places restrictions on the story elements from previous games.


So what ?

Your one argument was that you can chose not to use it. You do not have a choice to avoid the negative consequences of the system.


Well.. when the company developing the cake announces it is going to be a chocolate cake, similar to their world famous past cakes and you hate chocolate and hated the past cakes, I advise you to go down the street and buy your Vanilla cake that is made by thousands of others. :lol:


So, a basic "because you don't like something I like, then get a new game developer!" argument is in effect? Good to know. 

I have been playing Bioware games since the company was founded. I was really excited for the concept of the Save Import when they announced it in DA:O and ME1. I talked to all of my friends about how cool the possibility of things like the Rachni Queen or the Genolhage Cure were, or how I drastically changed the world by saving the Anvil or preserving the Ashes, bringing back ancient, lost artifacts from myth into the modern world.

But as time has worn on, I see the Save Import isn't what people imagined it would be. We aren't playing in worlds where our choices are carried over, we are playing in worlds that are all the same and they only mention things done in the past. I don't feel like the Dwarves, the Circles, Redcliffe, the nation of Ferelden or the Chantry are any different at all for the work my character has done and the choices I made. They will be the exact same, regardless. People may comment or there may be a generic Codex entry with certain key words copied and pasted due to how my previous choices worked, or maybe even a random little side quest that adds nothing to the lore, impact and consequence of the choice. That's not the "cake" many were led to believe we were buying. 

DA2 shook my faith in the Save Import - the superficial name drops, the nearly forced cameos, the nonsensical and boring side quests and the copy pasta Codex entries... all of it was disappointing. I feel like be team put more effort into letting us know what Allistair was up to in different choices rather than tackling the impact of events that actually WOULD change the world in which our new character was interacting. So DA2 was a miss. 

Then ME3 shattered my faith. In a game designed t be the last in a trilogy, where the devs had said they would be free to explore the impact of our choices in real, branching and deep ways, the game world is still nearly identical no matter any chicks you made in ME1 or 2. If you saved the Council, a choice that sacrificed thousands of lives, you get a five minute meeting in ME2, but then the Council is gone forever in ME3, never to be mentioned. If you thought the Genophage was a terrible, but necessary counter measure to prevent the Krogan from over running the galaxy and also failed to see how giant toad men would be of any help in fighting giant spaceships, you find that the Genophage is cured on the same exact time frame, despite you destroying years worth of research and data. The Rachni Queen, a choice touted by developers that would come back in a "big way" before ME3's release (much like how devs for DA have said that the Dark Ritual will play out in a big, branching way), the result was that the Rachni were alive and breeding, regardless of what actions you choose. If you spared the last remaining Queen, she would be captured and converted by the Reapers. If you killed her, the Reapers will be able to magically clone a Queen of their own out of thin air. 

If that was the result of freedom of being the end of a planned trilogy, of over two years worth of development work and a mission statement from the devs stating that they would be able to create truly unique content based on your choices, then what hope does the feature have? If it couldn't succeed in ME3, with the dev cycle as large as any major Bioware game recently, the developer desire to actually create loads of custom content and the freedom of being able to do anything story related since it was the end of a trilogy, then how can it succeed in DA3, which has the same development time, but a commitment to not create lots of custom content and the intent to not make it the last game in the series? If Conrad Verner is the height of what Import feature could do in ME3 and DA3 is not set up to be in a much better position to create a better execution of the import, than that raises serious concerns about any stories or plot lines every being resolved with the feature. 

#600
Trolldrool

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It would feel sort of like playing through Neverwinter Nights 2 again. Create a hero. Feel really excited though really you just do loads of stuff that won't really have more than an illusion of impact on the story. Be evil and completely disgust the paladin LI who won't even come near you. Finish the game. Install Mask of the Betrayer. Import character. Find out that according to canon you totally screwed that paladin from dusk till dawn that night.