895 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

Yes!

[scootermcgaffin]

Stippling wrote...

You're only wasting development resources if you're slapping on cameos for no reason. If the king of Ferelden needs to be involved in the plot, have the import check and see who that is, or if its a queen etc. You don't set a precedence in a game and take it away instead of improving on it.

There's a large difference between fan service cameos and importing plot points that need to carry over.

If the plot says the king of Ferelden needs to be involved, and in your game Alistair is king, the writers need to write lines for him. The designers need to design him. The coders need to put him in the game. The voice actor needs to record dialogue for him.

If the plot says the king of Ferelden needs to be involved, and in your game Ferelden has a queen, then the writers need to write lines for her. The designers need to design her. The coders need to put her in the game. The voice actor needs to record dialogue for her.

These things all cost money. Money is a development recorce. These also take time. Time is a development resource. Making sure every base is covered for every possible combination of events is a huge drain on development resource.

[Vicious]

Making sure every base is covered for every possible combination of events is a huge drain on development resource.

Making Dragon Age 3's main plot not suck is far more important. To the players and to Bioware both.

[fchopin]

There is nothing in DA2 that i would want imported to DA3.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

"Your decisions only matter if I agree with them. Dead does not mean dead. Stop making stuff up."

[Icinix]

I'm ultimately not to fussed about the imports - but I think if you're going to use them - go all out with them.

Not just cameos - but drastic sweeping changes in the game.

If we make a major decision in one game - I would love to see it alter something huge in the next.

Cameos while nice (and I think the DA2 ones were handled very well) - don't go far enough.

[Icesong]

marshalleck wrote...

Yes!

Wish I had completed that game; it fascinated me. Been wanting to go back and try again. Didn't get past that brothel with the sheep.

[HiroVoid]

So, theoretically, anyone for save imports, what are you'll going to do when down the line there's almost going to have to be a new start point if the Dragon Age series continued?

[slimgrin]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...



"Your decisions only matter if I agree with them. Dead does not mean dead. Stop making stuff up."

So basically they're going to retcon with reckless abandon. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 05 octobre 2012 - 10:57 .

[Orian Tabris]

Maclimes wrote...

No.

Selene Moonsong wrote...

By excluding imports and enforcing a specific cannon, you render the games played by a great number of people wasted effort. So I highly disagree with this idea.

Besides, these would be variables based on player events reduced to T/F (True/False) values, not direct imports of a load of data for every detail of conversational choices and character models.

Variety is the spice of life. One set cannon renders a game dull and not worth replaying.

These.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

The only reason I like the save import in DA is to keep the universe consistant. I mean I don't want to hear about some other Warden Origin and how he stopped the blight instead of me.

It's not even you, you won't even get to see them. I agree it's pretty much pointless. Even in its most ambitious form in ME3 most things were like a palette swap. I think the main draw is getting to continue your character, but since dragon age doesn't do this...

In the end they just won't justify spending much resources on something only some people will see, so you can bet it will be half-assed. I mean they won't even do much for "decisions that matter" or "branching storylines" and that's a bit more accessible than import decisions.

[marshalleck]

Icesong wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Yes!

Wish I had completed that game; it fascinated me. Been wanting to go back and try again. Didn't get past that brothel with the sheep.

GOG has it on sale this weekend, only $2.39

[Vicious]

These.

Sure. And you'll be here complaining about how xxx cameo made absolutely no sense. You were mad they brought Leliana back. They don't care about your canon already. Why are you vested in it when it is revealed to be naught but GIMMICK?

Better to spend their time on more important stuff. Making a good and memorable DA3 main plot. Making it everything DA2 wasn't.

  Even in its most ambitious form in ME3 most things were like a palette swap

This

Modifié par Vicious, 05 octobre 2012 - 11:00 .

[MillKill]

Icinix wrote...

Not just cameos - but drastic sweeping changes in the game.

If we make a major decision in one game - I would love to see it alter something huge in the next.

That takes extra resources. The game would necessarily be shorter and less complex. This is why the references to imported decisions are small. The benefits are minimal, but the costs both in resources and story quality are high. In a world with unlimited resources, I'd be in favor of imports. But resources are not unlimited. I'd rather they simply make the best game they can by axing this feature and let headcanon handle why my decisions aren't reflected in the sequel.

Modifié par MillKill, 05 octobre 2012 - 11:03 .

[Icinix]

slimgrin wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

*picture snipped*

"Your decisions only matter if I agree with them. Dead does not mean dead. Stop making stuff up."

So basically they're going to retcon with reckless abandon. 

No, but I think it is a bit iffy that if a player kills a character - having them be able to come back at will is dangerous.

Lelian's only failure was that a tiny percentage of people could and did kill her in DAO - BUT - some of those moments were what made DAO so much more powerful than DA2 - and taking the power from those moments to undo those choices for future games means that as players the potential power of all choices in future games could be lost.

If a character is auto saved without player input - its a story element - if a character is saved because without player intervention they would die - its a powerful player moment of choice. Even if only 1% takes the 'leave them to die' option - the other 99% is stronger because it was an alternative option they chose. Taking that away makes all decisions weaker.

[HiroVoid]

Orian Tabris wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

No.

Selene Moonsong wrote...

By excluding imports and enforcing a specific cannon, you render the games played by a great number of people wasted effort. So I highly disagree with this idea.

Besides, these would be variables based on player events reduced to T/F (True/False) values, not direct imports of a load of data for every detail of conversational choices and character models.

Variety is the spice of life. One set cannon renders a game dull and not worth replaying.

These.

If a game's not replayable, that's the single game's fault.  A game should be replayable if the person enjoys it.  It's not wasted effort if you're enjoying the time playing the game.  If it's dull to play through a game again just to get a save import, I wonder why you would torture yourself playing through another 40-60 hours of dullness.

I didn't enjoy DAII, so I probably won't import to DAIII, but that won't stop me from replaying DA:O which is a game that I enjoyed much more.  It also doesn't stop me from replaying Fallout 1 and 2.

[scootermcgaffin]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Variety is the spice of life. One set cannon renders a game dull and not worth replaying.

It is sad to learn that I will have to stop playing Baldur's Gate 2 just because Minsc, Jaheria, and Imoen are in the dungeon with me at the start despite not going with me at all in BG1

[jmadsen]

hahahha what about no!

[Mr Fixit]

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

The only reason I like the save import in DA is to keep the universe consistant. I mean I don't want to hear about some other Warden Origin and how he stopped the blight instead of me.

It's not even you, you won't even get to see them. I agree it's pretty much pointless. Even in its most ambitious form in ME3 most things were like a palette swap. I think the main draw is getting to continue your character, but since dragon age doesn't do this...

In the end they just won't justify spending much resources on something only some people will see, so you can bet it will be half-assed. I mean they won't even do much for "decisions that matter" or "branching storylines" and that's a bit more accessible than import decisions.

Exactly. The way things are now, save imports only serve to restrict the storytelling opportunities in the sequel games. Since BioWare can't/doesn't want to commit to all out branching with tons of content only a portion of players gets to see, we are essentially left with supposedly important choices that have no consequences, a la 'save the council' or 'rachni queen' in ME1 and the collector base in ME2.

Sound and fury signifying nothing. 

[Icinix]

MillKill wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Not just cameos - but drastic sweeping changes in the game.

If we make a major decision in one game - I would love to see it alter something huge in the next.

That takes extra resources. The game would necessarily be shorter and less complex. This is why the references to imported decisions are small. The benefits are minimal, but the costs both in resources and story quality are high. In a world with unlimited resources, I'd be in favor of imports. But resources are not unlimited. I'd rather they simply make the best game they can by axing this feature and let headcanon handle why my decisions aren't reflected in the seaquel.

Well yeah, resources goes without saying - and like I said - if you're going to stick with cameos and that axe it because you don't gain enough.

But if you're going to throw hollywood blockbuster budgets at gaming - if you're going to throw resources into online components and juxtpositioned multiplayer - then I really like to think someone out there is going - hey, we have this import system, wouldn't it be worthwhile just going all out and making it really matter?

[HiroVoid]

Icinix wrote...

MillKill wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Not just cameos - but drastic sweeping changes in the game.

If we make a major decision in one game - I would love to see it alter something huge in the next.

That takes extra resources. The game would necessarily be shorter and less complex. This is why the references to imported decisions are small. The benefits are minimal, but the costs both in resources and story quality are high. In a world with unlimited resources, I'd be in favor of imports. But resources are not unlimited. I'd rather they simply make the best game they can by axing this feature and let headcanon handle why my decisions aren't reflected in the seaquel.

Well yeah, resources goes without saying - and like I said - if you're going to stick with cameos and that axe it because you don't gain enough.

But if you're going to throw hollywood blockbuster budgets at gaming - if you're going to throw resources into online components and juxtpositioned multiplayer - then I really like to think someone out there is going - hey, we have this import system, wouldn't it be worthwhile just going all out and making it really matter?

Why?  Most people that are that giddy about the series are just going to buy the next game anyway.

[Orian Tabris]

Vicious wrote...

These.

Sure. And you'll be here complaining about how xxx cameo made absolutely no sense. You were mad they brought Leliana back. They don't care about your canon already. Why are you vested in it when it is revealed to be naught but GIMMICK?

Better to spend their time on more important stuff. Making a good and memorable DA3 main plot. Making it everything DA2 wasn't.

It's funny, because absolutely NOTHING you said applies to me.

DA2 wasn't quite up to scratch, but it was nonetheless a great game.

I never kept having killed Leliana, because I don't like killing companions off, and I actually really, really... really like Leliana. The ONLY canon I'm worried about, are how they handle the Old God Baby, and deciding whether or not to kill the Architech.

EDIT: Also, I love cameos. The only such thing I want not to happen is for Cullen to be a companion.

Basically, you're just a BS artist who thinks he's smart and funny.

Modifié par Orian Tabris, 05 octobre 2012 - 11:11 .

[MillKill]

Really good example:

In Fallout 1, your decisions determined whether the town of Shady Sands formed the New California Republic.

In Fallout 2 and New Vegas, the NCR being formed was canon. They were extremely important in the world and plot. The plots of both would have been far weaker if the devs had bothered to tiptoe around everybody's individual choices.

I only played through Fallout 1 once as a murderous gun-toting psychopath that never helped form the NCR. Because 2 and NV were good enough to stand on their own, I never felt my cheated that my own choices were non-canon. Making a choice canon made the plots of both of those sequels much better.

Modifié par MillKill, 05 octobre 2012 - 11:12 .

[Icinix]

HiroVoid wrote...

Icinix wrote...

MillKill wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Not just cameos - but drastic sweeping changes in the game.

If we make a major decision in one game - I would love to see it alter something huge in the next.

That takes extra resources. The game would necessarily be shorter and less complex. This is why the references to imported decisions are small. The benefits are minimal, but the costs both in resources and story quality are high. In a world with unlimited resources, I'd be in favor of imports. But resources are not unlimited. I'd rather they simply make the best game they can by axing this feature and let headcanon handle why my decisions aren't reflected in the seaquel.

Well yeah, resources goes without saying - and like I said - if you're going to stick with cameos and that axe it because you don't gain enough.

But if you're going to throw hollywood blockbuster budgets at gaming - if you're going to throw resources into online components and juxtpositioned multiplayer - then I really like to think someone out there is going - hey, we have this import system, wouldn't it be worthwhile just going all out and making it really matter?

Why?  Most people that are that giddy about the series are just going to buy the next game anyway.

Why? Because I believe gaming is far too young and off its peak to start hitting a plateau and go "Well, we're all pretty happy, lets not try to expand what we do to create a better experience for gamers."

What gaming can do that no other entertainment medium can do - is craft a player driven world based on the players choices and inputs. BioWare was pretty much the company that started that trend and it is things like that which will elevate gaming to where it should be - but they now seem to be pulling back from it when they should be charging full steam ahead.

[Mr Fixit]

Orian Tabris wrote...

Vicious wrote...

These.

Sure. And you'll be here complaining about how xxx cameo made absolutely no sense. You were mad they brought Leliana back. They don't care about your canon already. Why are you vested in it when it is revealed to be naught but GIMMICK?

Better to spend their time on more important stuff. Making a good and memorable DA3 main plot. Making it everything DA2 wasn't.

It's funny, because absolutely NOTHING you said applies to me.

DA2 wasn't quite up to scratch, but it was nonetheless a great game.

I never kept having killed Leliana, because I don't like killing companions off, and I actually really, really... really like Leliana. The ONLY canon I'm worried about, are how they handle the Old God Baby, and deciding whether or not to kill the Architech.

That's just it! They won't handle the OGB in any meaningful way because it doesn't even exist in many imported saves! Or they'll simply handwave another Leliana and make OGB happen. Importing severely restricts what can be done having limited resources in mind.